Wade Garrett Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Sorry, I don't buy it. Just a load of bullsh*t spin. I'm sure many will disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 When does the 5 years start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the colonel Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 YAWN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Never a good idea to believe your own PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Sorry, I don't buy it. Just a load of bullsh*t spin. I'm sure many will disagree. You don't buy what? We've done exactly what we said we'd do, a Premier League club run sustainably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 10 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2016 You don't buy what? We've done exactly what we said we'd do, a Premier League club run sustainably. We'll see. But I don't think every other club in the division is being run unsustainably. The spin from the boardroom is delusional in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 When does the 5 years start? Every year. That's how any business with a five year plan would do it and does do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 ****inghell this forum is insufferable when we lose a few games. Now I know why I usually steer clear when we lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 We'll see. But I don't think every other club in the division is being run unsustainably. The spin from the boardroom is delusional in my opinion. We'll see what? It has happened and is happening. Have your little toddler tantrum if you like but we've delivered on the plan, our strategy is fine. Execution has been poor this season but that doesn't mean our strategy is wrong. No business delivers it's plan to perfection every single year. Club has one bad year in six. Boo fuc king hoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Every year. That's how any business with a five year plan would do it and does do it. I was just wondering which plan we were following because it doesn't seem to be working at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 ****inghell this forum is insufferable when we lose a few games. Now I know why I usually steer clear when we lose. See you next season then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I was just wondering which plan we were following because it doesn't seem to be working at the moment. You seem to be confusing "having a plan" with "nothing ever going wrong ever". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 The Board have stated there is a new 5 year plan but not knowing what it is suggests they aren't sure it can be achieved and don't want to be criticised if they don't. That is perfectly fair as well. If you have ambition but don't achieve it then it's far to easily to be branded a failure for doing so. I'm happy to keep that plan internal to the club and happier that we have one rather than just existing. In terms of the 'Southampton Way' that erodes with every passing month from last season. If you look at the things that senior members of the club have said it is then clearly we are not adhering to it this season. Attacking football? No. Pathway to the first team for young players? No. Unique in the way we treat people? Can't comment but whether or not we're doing it then it doesn't appear to make a difference on the pitch so I don't care. Sign young players and turn them into better players? We're certainly signing young players, but this summer was awful in the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 10 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2016 We'll see what? It has happened and is happening. Have your little toddler tantrum if you like but we've delivered on the plan, our strategy is fine. Execution has been poor this season but that doesn't mean our strategy is wrong. No business delivers it's plan to perfection every single year. Club has one bad year in six. Boo fuc king hoo. C*nt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 ****inghell this forum is insufferable when we lose a few games. Now I know why I usually steer clear when we lose. Its a little more than losing a few games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I thought the "Southampton Way" involved playing 4-3-3 throughout the club, from the youngsters through the under 18's, under 21's and 1st team. Well, watching the under 21's midweek it looks as though this is still the case, but RK seems to have completely ditched that strategy in the 1st team. If the Black Box is identified player acquisitions to fit our 4-3-3 formation, is it any wonder we are struggling if RK isn't adhering to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Its a little more than losing a few games It really is`nt though is it ? As you well know, if we had not been on such a bad run the continual posting of "everything is s h ite" would be considerably less... Its a case of we (mainly) only moan when we are losing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 It really is`nt though is it ? As you well know, if we had not been on such a bad run the continual posting of "everything is s h ite" would be considerably less... Its a case of we (mainly) only moan when we are losing... do you think Ron will still be manager if we fail to win the next two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 do you think Ron will still be manager if we fail to win the next two? I have really no idea.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I have really no idea.. Just yes or no. What is your gut feeling? Me sadly, I do not. But I think we will win them both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I have really no idea.. That there is doubt in your mind suggests you believe realistically he could be sacked in that scenario, and thus if he is sacked then it would mean to Les Reed and the rest of the Board that 1 win in 12 or whatever it will be (with 10 of them lost) is unacceptable - regardless of perceived level of performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Just yes or no. What is your gut feeling? Me sadly, I do not. But I think we will win them both I hope we win both too My gut feeling is it could go either way so my first answer is the same...sorry i have no idea but hope not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I hope we win both too My gut feeling is it could go either way so my first answer is the same...sorry i have no idea but hope not very much a element of doubt there there then. but you dare not come across as slightly negative about the situation. When this form is nothing but a few defeats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 very much a element of doubt there there then. but you dare not come across as slightly negative about the situation. When this form is nothing but a few defeats Element of doubt..of course as i would have said no would`nt i? Dare not be negative...lol...I am negative to the point where things have to change,results have to change and i am as p iss ed off as the rest of you but not to the extreme as many on here who feel the need to post it endlessly. My belief is that we have the players and manager to do much better and i think we will do so soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I thought the "Southampton Way" involved playing 4-3-3 throughout the club, from the youngsters through the under 18's, under 21's and 1st team. Well, watching the under 21's midweek it looks as though this is still the case, but RK seems to have completely ditched that strategy in the 1st team. If the Black Box is identified player acquisitions to fit our 4-3-3 formation, is it any wonder we are struggling if RK isn't adhering to this? The Southampton way is just marketing tosh. How on earth can you base a clubs footballing philosophy around a single formation. Ok it makes sense for the under 21s to play in the same formation as the senior side, but RK must be able to by change his formation when he feels it is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 (edited) The Board have stated there is a new 5 year plan but not knowing what it is suggests they aren't sure it can be achieved and don't want to be criticised if they don't. That is perfectly fair as well. If you have ambition but don't achieve it then it's far to easily to be branded a failure for doing so. I'm happy to keep that plan internal to the club and happier that we have one rather than just existing. In terms of the 'Southampton Way' that erodes with every passing month from last season. If you look at the things that senior members of the club have said it is then clearly we are not adhering to it this season. Attacking football? No. Pathway to the first team for young players? No. Unique in the way we treat people? Can't comment but whether or not we're doing it then it doesn't appear to make a difference on the pitch so I don't care. Sign young players and turn them into better players? We're certainly signing young players, but this summer was awful in the transfer market. Rightly or wrongly, Koeman has shown very little interest in a strategy, however defined -he's not a project man. Only difference is that last season the club was happy to turn a blind eye while he was successful; now results have gone against us, it's seemingly digging it's heels in. It's also overlooked how much our strategy and ability to showcase players depend on us consistently doing well in the league: the only reason we make profits on players -and thus can strengthen the side- is because top 4 clubs want them. But the idea that will continue in the future is a very strong assumption. If players, even ones with potential, are in a struggling side or even a side that seems streaky, we're far less likely to attract such interest -all while those players are one year closer to being free agents. Edited 10 January, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 The Southampton way is just marketing tosh. How on earth can you base a clubs footballing philosophy around a single formation. Ok it makes sense for the under 21s to play in the same formation as the senior side, but RK must be able to by change his formation when he feels it is required. I'm not arguing with that, more the point that our transfer strategy is to buy in players to slot into the 4-3-3 style of play, who then look like fish out of water when we use alternative formations. Can't say that either RK or LVG have impressed with the 3 at the back formation. Fans used to bemoan Poch for not having a Plan B, but at least the players were comfortable with the formation, and replacements slotted in seamlessly. Can't say the same at the moment IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Why have we not got a "Mission Statement" to go with our 5 Year Plan and Southampton Way? A glaring omission, reflects badly on the Board. Might have arrested our slide if the team could read a stirring, inspirational Mission Statement before every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 'The Southampton Way' is as much internal marketing as external - a way of motivating staff and ensuring they're working together with the same goals in mind. Its a little more than losing a few games But only a little more, in the context of five years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Not too concerned about the 5 year plan, everyone knows that plans are often not fulfilled, the best laid plans of mice and men and all that. But what is The Southampton Way? Its clearly never been just about team formations, although there has always been an element of all teams being coached and developed in the same style. But what else is it? It is not just marketing hype, though there is a strong element of that so that we can go sell the Club to the US of A. Its supposed to be about our philosophy, but we don't seem to have one any more, at least nothing recognisable. It used to be something to do with developing our own players through the Academy, them training with the first team, not being loaned out, but all that has gone out of the window since last Summer. Unfortunately things like the Southampton Way are fine when things are going well, but because we have had 6 good years on the trot the Club do not seem to be able to sustain their vision when things go wrong, or maybe its because they have tried to sustain the vision that things have gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 See you next season then Touche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 having a 5 year plan is fine as long as the core objective is a successful first team, without that none of the rest really matters. without that strong first team, income eventually drops and the rest of the plan becomes unrealistic in economic terms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 The Board have stated there is a new 5 year plan but not knowing what it is suggests they aren't sure it can be achieved and don't want to be criticised if they don't. That is perfectly fair as well. If you have ambition but don't achieve it then it's far to easily to be branded a failure for doing so. I'm happy to keep that plan internal to the club and happier that we have one rather than just existing. In terms of the 'Southampton Way' that erodes with every passing month from last season. If you look at the things that senior members of the club have said it is then clearly we are not adhering to it this season. Attacking football? No. Pathway to the first team for young players? No. Unique in the way we treat people? Can't comment but whether or not we're doing it then it doesn't appear to make a difference on the pitch so I don't care. Sign young players and turn them into better players? We're certainly signing young players, but this summer was awful in the transfer market. With respect, have to disagree with this! No large/public company (public not in ownership terms, but we are in the entertainment / people business), let alone a EPL club should have a private vision, execution fine but not vision. In any case we have been repeatedly told fans and history are important to the current Board and they have assured us of openness and transparency. Also the 5 year plan has been spoken of from the start of the new owners (Father and Daughter) so why not now? If you really want a private 5 year plan, then don't mention it - simple! Don't say you have a plan but we don't want to tell you, just in case we can't achieve it - really? Would you want people with that attitude running the club? My 2 cent worth is that RK asked what our ambition and investment plan was, and was highly underwhelmed as he may feel he has taken us as far as he can within current club ambitions, so has said invest in Jan or I am off at the end of my contract. This has filtered through to the players and staff (hence Jose's comments etc.) and hence the drop in form / confidence. Only two ways out of this, 1) Give RK what he is asking for now, or 2) Get rid of RK now and get a new manager who buys fully in to club's aims, and let the fans know so we don't harbor unrealistic expectations. However I fear we don't have the balls within the new Board for this - it needs to Ralph really, but he is no Nicky is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 (edited) Sorry, I don't buy it. Just a load of bullsh*t spin. I'm sure many will disagree. disagree? ... disagree?... what's to disagree with?. A 5 year plan to get us from the bottom of L1 back upto the Prem. OK That was achieved...... in less than 5 . European football in the following 5 years...... well admittedly, it was short lived, but we made it to the Europa League---but I don't recall any promise to win the Champions League within 5 years. You're just upset and disappointed ...like the rest of us......and that bit about half the first team being 50% Academy graduates? Just now ....Koeman's right ....There's hardly two of the present U21 side that could even get into the first team, let alone command a regular place. Who do you blame for that? Edited 10 January, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Why have we not got a "Mission Statement" to go with our 5 Year Plan and Southampton Way? A glaring omission, reflects badly on the Board. Might have arrested our slide if the team could read a stirring, inspirational Mission Statement before every game. Mission statement (!) ......I've heard dozens of those in the business world.. Can you give us a draft suggestion that Ralph might use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 We're going to be the EPL Green Bay Packers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Mission statement (!) ......I've heard dozens of those in the business world.. Can you give us a draft suggestion that Ralph might use? Where there is talent, let us make money; whereever there is a Dutchman languishing, let us give him a home; and where there is ambition, let it be realised on Merseyside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 We're going to be the EPL Green Bay Packers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 10 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2016 disagree? ... disagree?... what's to disagree with?. A 5 year plan to get us from the bottom of L1 back upto the Prem. OK That was achieved...... in less than 5 . European football in the following 5 years...... well admittedly, it was short lived, but we made it to the Europa League---but I don't recall any promise to win the Champions League within 5 years. You're just upset and disappointed ...like the rest of us......and that bit about half the first team being 50% Academy graduates? Just now ....Koeman's right ....There's hardly two of the present U21 side that could even get into the first team, let alone command a regular place. Who do you blame for that? You make some valid points. My main beef with the club is that they hide behind these platitudes, and Kruger makes 'motivational' speeches, when it is clear that what Ron really needs is a bit of funding. Koeman certainly can't be blamed for not playing youngsters, fact is, they're not good enough. We have been spoilt with decent young players in recent years. A barren spell is just the way it goes. I would, however, like them to be coached by people who learnt the game playing premiership football instead of ones that learnt it in a classroom listening to FA lectures from more people who never really played the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobbysouth Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Just from the title of this thread I'd realise it was just gunna be more moaning. Best way to support a club is to be behind them through good and bad. In my eyes the 5 years of which the plan was operational we soared from league one to a good and entertaining premier league team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I would, however, like them to be coached by people who learnt the game playing premiership football instead of ones that learnt it in a classroom listening to FA lectures from more people who never really played the game. Interesting comment. I have often wondered why we got rid of Jason Dodd when he was coaching. He had a link to the club and played for us through thick and thin. That is the true Southampton Way. We need a little bit of that fire from people who have been through the good and bad times and it's difficult to see where that comes from at the moment, on and off the pitch. Forgive me if I'm wrong but the current board have only ever been involved on the way up, even if under the alleged crazy days of Nicola. They can't remember the really dark days so may just have become too complacent with the hype. This is what worries me more than anything. Time for leadership in more than just words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 You make some valid points. My main beef with the club is that they hide behind these platitudes, and Kruger makes 'motivational' speeches, when it is clear that what Ron really needs is a bit of funding. Koeman certainly can't be blamed for not playing youngsters, fact is, they're not good enough. We have been spoilt with decent young players in recent years. A barren spell is just the way it goes. I would, however, like them to be coached by people who learnt the game playing premiership football instead of ones that learnt it in a classroom listening to FA lectures from more people who never really played the game. this is a very sensitive issue-isn't it? I think Martin Hunter is a great coach and has done very well with the U21 sides, but ....I can't help thinking that these lads might respond a bit better to someone who has played the game at a higher level...." A mechanic rather than a technician." Someone who can put " a bit of grit" into their play rather than just wise advice. I think the inclusion of Rahdi Jaidi is a step towards this, but even he hasn't played Prem. level football. I think MH has a role to play in the club but at this stage of their development the U21's should perhaps be coached by a former player (not necssarily a Saint) ...but who knows the game first hand, and has an impressive CV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 DiS - were Bolton or Birmingham not in the Premier League when Jaidi was with them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 DiS - were Bolton or Birmingham not in the Premier League when Jaidi was with them ? Bolton finished 6th in 2004/2005 and 8th in 2005/2006. Rahdi made 43 apearances and scored 8 goals in these two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 The 5 Year Plan was something from the Cortese era when we had someone who was driving the club towards the objectives of the plan. Who would be doing that now? The Billionairess? The Ice Hockey Coach? or the Accountant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Who would be doing that now? The Billionairess? The Ice Hockey Coach? or the Accountant? Didn't Helen Mirren star in that film? I think the answer to your question though is the Director of Football, Uncle Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 I'm not arguing with that, more the point that our transfer strategy is to buy in players to slot into the 4-3-3 style of play, who then look like fish out of water when we use alternative formations. Can't say that either RK or LVG have impressed with the 3 at the back formation. Fans used to bemoan Poch for not having a Plan B, but at least the players were comfortable with the formation, and replacements slotted in seamlessly. Can't say the same at the moment IMO They're a pretty sorry bunch nowadays, professional football players. It seems that most of them are incapable of playing different formation systems, so it is a waste of time buying any players who are not capable of playing in a 4-3-3 formation. It used to be that you could buy players to suit a particular role within a team and those comprised central defenders, full backs, midfielders and strikers. Those could be further sub-divided by their attributes and skills, such as pace, good tackling ability, vision, passing ability and leadership qualities. Chez is right, you can't stick to a rigid formation and nor does Koeman do that. Formations change depending on player availability and tactically to exploit weaknesses and counter the strengths of the opposition. Any professional footballers bought in as defenders, midfielders or strikers ought to be able to adapt to fit into any of the modern day formations, or they aren't worth wasting our money on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 It is a bit of a myth that very good coaches have to have played at the highest level - Wenger?, Mourinho? MacMenemy? even Ferguson was hardly a top player. One problem with people who are outstanding is that they struggle to communicate to others things that come easily to them. Eddie Howe did not play at the top level but in my opinion is one of the best English coaches around at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Bolton finished 6th in 2004/2005 and 8th in 2005/2006. Rahdi made 43 apearances and scored 8 goals in these two seasons. Agreed ..that just about qualifys......43 games over 2 years ...(it looks like two half seasons)..but it's not as if he spent half his career playing at the highest level. We really an established footballing figure who done his badges and knows what it's like to play at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Didn't Helen Mirren star in that film? I think the answer to your question though is the Director of Football, Uncle Les. That'll be why were are f'ked then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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