Trump Watch

[CB Fry]

Any half-credible Democratic politician other than Clinton would have beaten Trump. To non-Americans like Brand and yourself, its hard to understand these contingencies.

Indeed.

 

There would have been a proportion of the electorate that voted against Hillary rather than for Trump. Clinton clearly was despised and mistrusted by huge numbers and has no real charisma but still secured the popular vote "victory" vs Trump.

 

Take away the anti-establishment Hillary-hate out of the equation and replace with a half competent, engaging Democrat and it would have been a lot closer.

 

But I don't mean Sanders who would have been smashed as a raging Commie despite being about as left-wing as Alan Milburn.

[Verbal]

For all the damage Trump will cause - to women's rights, black lives, the global environment, and any hope of a revived Middle East peace process (forget it) - the economic damage he can cause, to scale, will be as nothing compared to Brexit. Britain's leading Brexiteers far, far outweigh Trump in the competition to be the most malevolently stupid.

 

Interesting to see that May - terrified of offending the Brexit loons in her party - was ninth on the list of world leaders Trump called after his election victory. And this just after she was sent packing from India with a handful of sweet **** all.

 

So even after Trump, Britain still leads in the laughing stock stakes.

[Johnny Bognor]

Another vocal liberal gets it...

 

[TwoPints]

Trump looked like a naughty schoolboy sitting next to Obama and Ryan today after their meetings. He's clearly not up to the job and I wonder whether he now realises that?

[hutch]

???

 

First-past-the-post also means that a government can form without a majority of the popular vote.

And when was the last time that happened in the UK? And how well did that work out?

[whelk]

[Pancake]

This is such addled analysis that it makes your Frazier Richardson/sweeper stuff look positively informed.

 

Lol! Perfect reply.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The 2016 three-step plan for getting absolutely anyone or anything successfully elected:

 

• Tell people that they are hard done by in some way.

• Inform them that foreigners are fully or partly to blame for their situation.

• Promise them that you will make everything better somehow.

[Wes Tender]

I've hardly seen anyone disputing the result, though you have to expect some discontent when Clinton won the popular vote. People will continue to oppose Trump's bigotry. The only reason you dislike that, it seems, is that you support Trump. Justify that instead of targeting his opponents.

 

This isn't very intelligent thinking to conclude that if somebody despises Clinton, they must support Trump.

[buctootim]

And when was the last time that happened in the UK? And how well did that work out?

 

??? Thats pretty much the way it works every time. Tory or Labour doesn't matter, its always a government elected by a minority. The current one got 37% of the vote. The Con-Dem coalition was the only exception in modern times.

Edited 11 November, 2016 by buctootim

[hypochondriac]

The 2016 three-step plan for getting absolutely anyone or anything successfully elected:

 

• Tell people that they are hard done by in some way.

• Inform them that foreigners are fully or partly to blame for their situation.

• Promise them that you will make everything better somehow.

It really is that simple in your head isn't it. Surely rather than insulting people and questioning their intelligence for voting for Trump, people should be critical of the conditions that meant that someone like Trump could get elected. How disenfranchised, ignored and stomped on must people feel to think that voting for any sort of change is preferable to keeping things the way they are. If people feel their lives are complete sh*t then telling them how sh*t things would be under Trump isn't likely to scare anyone. If the average white man is constantly told by rabid social justice warriors that everything bad in life is their fault and part of some sort of mythical patriarchy then is it any wonder that many people felt they had little to lose by trying something different.

 

Maybe instead of pretending that everyone is a mindless sheep who loved Trump and who are all racist and sexist the best thing to do would be to actually listen to some of the valid concerns of these people and see how they can be addressed in the future. Or you know just do what most of the media are doing and call everyone foul thick misogynist racists who hate other people. The next time something like this happens the same liberal media will act with bemusement that people didn't vote the way they were told.

[shurlock]

It really is that simple in your head isn't it. Surely rather than insulting people and questioning their intelligence for voting for Trump, people should be critical of the conditions that meant that someone like Trump could get elected. How disenfranchised, ignored and stomped on must people feel to think that voting for any sort of change is preferable to keeping things the way they are. If people feel their lives are complete sh*t then telling them how sh*t things would be under Trump isn't likely to scare anyone. If the average white man is constantly told by rabid social justice warriors that everything bad in life is their fault and part of some sort of mythical patriarchy then is it any wonder that many people felt they had little to lose by trying something different.

 

Maybe instead of pretending that everyone is a mindless sheep who loved Trump and who are all racist and sexist the best thing to do would be to actually listen to some of the valid concerns of these people and see how they can be addressed in the future. Or you know just do what most of the media are doing and call everyone foul thick misogynist racists who hate other people. The next time something like this happens the same liberal media will act with bemusement that people didn't vote the way they were told.

 

Rabid social justice warriors

 

Almost as amusing as the hordes of 'gender benders'. You ever tried poetry pal? You have such a flair for words and make-believe.

Edited 11 November, 2016 by shurlock

[hypochondriac]

Rabid social justice warriors [emoji38]

 

Almost as amusing as gender benders. You ever tried poetry, pal?

Gender blender is an officially recognised gender identity in New York. I see you didn't attempt to address any of the points in my post.

A number of rabid social justice warriors exist and in my view they are one of the big reasons for this backlash. Nobody likes being told how awful they are and how to vote by the likes of Amy schumer and lena Dunham. No one in America and beyond likes having their free speech curtailed like what is happening across university campuses to the likes of Jordan peterson or being subject to abuse simply for being male like Hugh mungous. Look how the red pill documentary is effectively being silenced in australia- a documentary created by a feminist with the goal of giving men's rights activists a fair hearing. The social justice warriors are a movement that has exploded in the past decade and is a large reason for the formation of the alt right which has won Donald Trump the presidency. Either you can attempt to understand why it has happened or you can dismiss everyone that voted for Trump as racist and sexist pieces of sh*t but then don't be surprised if it keeps happening across the globe.

[Wes Tender]

Rabid social justice warriors

 

Almost as amusing as gender benders. You ever tried poetry, pal?

 

One man's rabid social justice warriors is another man's swivel-eyed loonies, me old mucker.

 

I agree with the gist of Hypo's post, as do many observers who have attempted to apply an objective analysis as to the reasons why our electorate voted for Brexit and America's voted for Trump. Many have arrived at those same conclusions. Do you dispute them?

[hypochondriac]

One man's rabid social justice warriors is another man's swivel-eyed loonies, me old mucker.

 

I agree with the gist of Hypo's post, as do many observers who have attempted to apply an objective analysis as to the reasons why our electorate voted for Brexit and America's voted for Trump. Many have arrived at those same conclusions. Do you dispute them?

I suppose it's easier for some to peddle the fiction that there are more racists, homophobes and sexist than they originally thought. It allows then to continue to take the high ground and moralise to Trump supporters, little realising that it is this very attitude which caused this to happen in the first place. I predict that results like this will continue to grow until such time that the self-admitted liberal bias is addressed within the media and the concerns of Joe Public are understood and steps are taken to address some of the concerns. The uncomfortable truth for many liberal elites like Katy perry or Samuel L Jackson is that a huge number voted for Trump because they felt it was the only way that they could get their voices heard and because the prospect of Trump was a lesser evil than the thought of four more years of the status quo. That should tell you something.

[hypochondriac]

I'm not what you would call Russell Brand's biggest fan, but a lot of what he says here about how people have reacted to the Trump victory is quite perceptive IMO...

 

I just watched this and I'm surprised to find that I largely agree with him.

[buctootim]

....

Edited 11 November, 2016 by buctootim

[Wes Tender]

https://research.hks.harvard.edu/publications/getFile.aspx?Id=1401

 

Some interesting research here into the reasons behind why the British and American electorates voted the way they did for Brexit and Trump

[shurlock]

Gender blender is an officially recognised gender identity in New York. I see you didn't attempt to address any of the points in my post.

A number of rabid social justice warriors exist and in my view they are one of the big reasons for this backlash. Nobody likes being told how awful they are and how to vote by the likes of Amy schumer and lena Dunham. No one in America and beyond likes having their free speech curtailed like what is happening across university campuses to the likes of Jordan peterson or being subject to abuse simply for being male like Hugh mungous. Look how the red pill documentary is effectively being silenced in australia- a documentary created by a feminist with the goal of giving men's rights activists a fair hearing. The social justice warriors are a movement that has exploded in the past decade and is a large reason for the formation of the alt right which has won Donald Trump the presidency. Either you can attempt to understand why it has happened or you can dismiss everyone that voted for Trump as racist and sexist pieces of sh*t but then don't be surprised if it keeps happening across the globe.

 

Trump didn't make a huge deal about culture and civil rights during the election: indeed Trump is pretty liberal on social issues - a charge that Ted Cruz tried to attack him with during the primaries and one reason why Trump repeatedly tripped up on issues such as abortion.

 

Relatively speaking average Americans who voted for Trump don't particularly care for this agenda either. The swivel-eyed alt-right is not yet the mainstream. Far more important were issues such as trade, jobs and wages. The US prides itself on the dynamism and flexibility of its economy yet has the second lowest labour force participation rate among prime-age men (25-54) in the OECD. Only Italy has a lower rate. Nothing speaks more to dysfunction in the US than changes in the labour force participation (as distinct from the unemployment rate which tends to get all the airplay).

 

I don't doubt that some of Trump's economic populist impulses are sincere: a trillion-dollar program to rebuild highways, tunnels, bridges and airports and designed to create a million jobs was a key campaign promise, though there is nothing particularly friendly to the working classes in lavish tax cuts or deregulation of financial markets. More cynical has been the alt-right's discovery of this agenda: after all, congressional republicans spent most of the last eight years blocking Obama's infrastructure proposals (arguably when spending would have made a bigger difference given where the US was in the economic cycle).

[aintforever]

The 2016 three-step plan for getting absolutely anyone or anything successfully elected:

 

• Tell people that they are hard done by in some way.

• Inform them that foreigners are fully or partly to blame for their situation.

• Promise them that you will make everything better somehow.

 

Certainly works better than just;

 

• ignoring the fact that people are feeling hard done

• pretending that immigration has no effect on their lives and they are just racist

• Tell them everything is great as it is

[buctootim]

https://research.hks.harvard.edu/publications/getFile.aspx?Id=1401

 

Some interesting research here into the reasons behind why the British and American electorates voted the way they did for Brexit and Trump

 

Interesting report Wes. You should post more of this kind of thing. The most worrying point in there, for me, was that 42% of non college graduates think it is a good thing to have a dictator.

 

The sense of disconnection is across many different areas of life - but essentially its local traditions, brands and identity being replaced by international homogenity and a wider sense of 'its okay to mislead people' - whether politicians or advertisers there has been a huge rise in doublespeak. We've seen the rise of corporatism, favouring multinationals who pay billions in lobbying replacing true capitalism.

 

I understand the sense of disconnect, I just disagree that voting for snake oil salesmen with big promises but no plan is a viable solution.

[shurlock]

https://research.hks.harvard.edu/publications/getFile.aspx?Id=1401

 

Some interesting research here into the reasons behind why the British and American electorates voted the way they did for Brexit and Trump

 

 

Inglehart's work has been disputed for years, dear Les. I guess you wouldn't know that as you probably hadn't heard of it thirty mins ago. There is some truth in it; but in many places it verges on caricature -and it is riddled with measurement issues as well as reverse causality and omitted variables. On a simple level, it would help if Inglehart had actually used data on those who voted for Trump and Brexit

Edited 11 November, 2016 by shurlock

[buctootim]

Inglehart's work has been disputed for years, dear Les. I guess you wouldn't know that as you probably hadn't heard of it thirty mins ago. There is some truth in it; but in many places it verges on caricature -and it is riddled with measurement issues as well as reverse causality and omitted variables. On a simple level, it would help if Inglehart had actually used data on those who voted for Trump and Brexit

 

I agree its flawed - the methodology and conclusions are suspect - but its useful as a discussion piece, and better than the more usual lounge 'evidence' claiming black is white based on nothing at all.

[hypochondriac]

Interesting report Wes. You should post more of this kind of thing. The most worrying point in there, for me, was that 42% of non college graduates think it is a good thing to have a dictator.

 

The sense of disconnection is across many different areas of life - but essentially its local traditions, brands and identity being replaced by international homogenity and a wider sense of 'its okay to mislead people' - whether politicians or advertisers there has been a huge rise in doublespeak. We've seen the rise of corporatism, favouring multinationals who pay billions in lobbying replacing true capitalism.

 

I understand the sense of disconnect, I just disagree that voting for snake oil salesmen with big promises but no plan is a viable solution.

Very much agree with this Tim. Good post.

[Wes Tender]

Inglehart's work has been disputed for years, dear Les. I guess you wouldn't know that as you probably hadn't heard of it thirty mins ago. There is some truth in it; but in many places it verges on caricature -and it is riddled with measurement issues as well as reverse causality and omitted variables. On a simple level, it would help if Inglehart had actually used data on those who voted for Trump and Brexit

 

Every study into anything that involves the opinions and decisions of the electorate must necessarily be open to some dispute, as the conclusions reached are based on surveys and the demographic statistics of the voting patterns of the electorate. I have read several articles recently since Brexit and many of the same conclusions are reached as to what has brought about this upsurge of public dissent resulting in the major political upsets like Brexit and the election of Trump.

 

Already a short time after Brexit, several commentators were predicting that there could potentially be repercussions along similar lines in the Presidential elections that would increase Trump's chances of being elected. They were largely dismissed at the time, but events have now brought about an acceptance among many that there are some solid foundations for suspecting that this groundswell of dissent towards the established order could well manifest itself elsewhere in Europe. Several European Countries have elections next year, such as Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Liechtenstein, Holland and Norway and others.

 

It will be fascinating to see whether there might be similar upsets elsewhere and what the implications will be for us if the EU project is visibly crumbling because of factors like immigration and unemployment.

[View From The Top]

Interesting report Wes. You should post more of this kind of thing. The most worrying point in there, for me, was that 42% of non college graduates think it is a good thing to have a dictator.

 

The sense of disconnection is across many different areas of life - but essentially its local traditions, brands and identity being replaced by international homogenity and a wider sense of 'its okay to mislead people' - whether politicians or advertisers there has been a huge rise in doublespeak. We've seen the rise of corporatism, favouring multinationals who pay billions in lobbying replacing true capitalism.

 

I understand the sense of disconnect, I just disagree that voting for snake oil salesmen with big promises but no plan is a viable solution.

 

It's no accident that the Rust-Belt and Middle America rejected the status quo for almost the same reasons Middle England and the northern post-industrial towns voted out.

 

neoliberal globalisation claimed them as victims, immigrants seemed to take what jobs were around whilst simultaneously changing the nature of the towns and the right wing media, in all of its forms, encouraged that view.

 

The Left didn’t do enough to convince those people that they understood their problems or knew how to solve them and the traditional Right, don’t really care about them anyway so in step the mavericks. In step Farage & Trump spinning their lies and in our post-truth world it’s lap it up but both the Left and Traditional Right are flummoxed.

The disconnect between the governed and the governing seems to be bigger than I’ve ever known it and what is really disconcerting is how many still don’t vote.

[shurlock]

Every study into anything that involves the opinions and decisions of the electorate must necessarily be open to some dispute, as the conclusions reached are based on surveys and the demographic statistics of the voting patterns of the electorate. I have read several articles recently since Brexit and many of the same conclusions are reached as to what has brought about this upsurge of public dissent resulting in the major political upsets like Brexit and the election of Trump.

 

Already a short time after Brexit, several commentators were predicting that there could potentially be repercussions along similar lines in the Presidential elections that would increase Trump's chances of being elected. They were largely dismissed at the time, but events have now brought about an acceptance among many that there are some solid foundations for suspecting that this groundswell of dissent towards the established order could well manifest itself elsewhere in Europe. Several European Countries have elections next year, such as Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Liechtenstein, Holland and Norway and others.

 

It will be fascinating to see whether there might be similar upsets elsewhere and what the implications will be for us if the EU project is visibly crumbling because of factors like immigration and unemployment.

 

Nobody is disputing there has been a rise in discontent: the question is to what extent it is attributable to economic or cultural grievances -or indeed idiosyncratic, institutional factors, the weighting between them and how empirically you go about disentangling them. For instance, Morris Fiorina and colleagues have done a good job of debunking the myth of a cultural war in the US - instead showing most Americans care about leadership and security. Their findings still hold today and are perfectly consistent with the rejection of Clinton/support for Trump.

Edited 11 November, 2016 by shurlock

[buctootim]

It's no accident that the Rust-Belt and Middle America rejected the status quo for almost the same reasons Middle England and the northern post-industrial towns voted out.

 

neoliberal globalisation claimed them as victims, immigrants seemed to take what jobs were around whilst simultaneously changing the nature of the towns and the right wing media, in all of its forms, encouraged that view.

 

The Left didn’t do enough to convince those people that they understood their problems or knew how to solve them and the traditional Right, don’t really care about them anyway so in step the mavericks. In step Farage & Trump spinning their lies and in our post-truth world it’s lap it up but both the Left and Traditional Right are flummoxed.

The disconnect between the governed and the governing seems to be bigger than I’ve ever known it and what is really disconcerting is how many still don’t vote.

 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens when the mavericks fail them too. Will that lead to greater apathy and withdrawal, or to support for ever more extreme messianic politics?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It really is that simple in your head isn't it. Surely rather than insulting people and questioning their intelligence for voting for Trump, people should be critical of the conditions that meant that someone like Trump could get elected. How disenfranchised, ignored and stomped on must people feel to think that voting for any sort of change is preferable to keeping things the way they are. If people feel their lives are complete sh*t then telling them how sh*t things would be under Trump isn't likely to scare anyone. If the average white man is constantly told by rabid social justice warriors that everything bad in life is their fault and part of some sort of mythical patriarchy then is it any wonder that many people felt they had little to lose by trying something different.

 

Maybe instead of pretending that everyone is a mindless sheep who loved Trump and who are all racist and sexist the best thing to do would be to actually listen to some of the valid concerns of these people and see how they can be addressed in the future. Or you know just do what most of the media are doing and call everyone foul thick misogynist racists who hate other people. The next time something like this happens the same liberal media will act with bemusement that people didn't vote the way they were told.

 

The thing is that almost EVERYBODY considers themselves to be 'hard done by' to some extent - this is an ancient and near universal perception.

 

The fact that many of these Britex/Trump supporters are (in relative terms anyway) among the most fortunate Human Beings to ever inhabit the surface of this planet means little in the face of such a erroneous, but nevertheless widely held, sense of grievance. So it seems that there is a huge and growing audience of malcontents out there utterly convinced that they have some God-given right to the 'pursuit of happiness', people who blame any and every disappointment they may have suffered in life not on themselves but on somebody else - very often that new Mexican/Polish family (delete as appropriate) who have moved in next door, or even on the nebulous concept of a all-powerful 'establishment' controlling everything in the world.

 

Closer to the truth perhaps is that there is no sinister establishment Hell-bent of suppressing society but rather the forces of globalisation are changing the world in rapid and quite profound ways. Yes, sometimes this effect can be harmful and rapid change is always unsettling of course, but when you think about it technological change and globalisation has the potential to make the world a better place too. In any case, reacting to all this change by irrational - indeed potentially destructive - behaviour in the polling booths will slow the advance of globalisation about as effectively as King Canute delayed the tide.

 

Interesting fact of the day: billionaire Donald Trump opted to name his youngest son 'Barron' - now there's a true man of the people if ever I saw one ...

[DuncanRG]

This isn't very intelligent thinking to conclude that if somebody despises Clinton, they must support Trump.

 

Of course not - I get that impression from Lord Duckhunter's wider outlook and postings on the subject.

[Dark Munster]

The 2016 three-step plan for getting absolutely anyone or anything successfully elected:

 

• Tell people that they are hard done by in some way.

• Inform them that foreigners are fully or partly to blame for their situation.

• Promise them that you will make everything better somehow.

2016? It worked 80 years ago in Germany.

[aintforever]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the mavericks fail them too. Will that lead to greater apathy and withdrawal, or to support for ever more extreme messianic politics?

 

The nature of globalisation means our governments are having less and less power so I guess it's going to take something extreme to make a difference. You just have to look at what has happened after the bank bailouts to see how completely inept our current system is.

 

I don't agree with much Trump stands for but applaud the fact that there is someone there who might shake things up a bit.

[suewhistle]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the mavericks fail them too. Will that lead to greater apathy and withdrawal, or to support for ever more extreme messianic politics?

 

Just ask yourself, "What would hypochondriac do?". Scary, isn't it?

[hypochondriac]

Just ask yourself, "What would hypochondriac do?". Scary, isn't it?

What an odd thing to say since I am neither American, a supporter of Trump or a disenfranchised member or the electorate. Probably best to stick to your stories about women's football and Italy. That's also incredibly dull but not as ill informed.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Wonder who the first European

politician The Donald will meet as Pres elect.

 

 

Edited 13 November, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[OldNick]

It's no accident that the Rust-Belt and Middle America rejected the status quo for almost the same reasons Middle England and the northern post-industrial towns voted out.

 

neoliberal globalisation claimed them as victims, immigrants seemed to take what jobs were around whilst simultaneously changing the nature of the towns and the right wing media, in all of its forms, encouraged that view.

 

The Left didn’t do enough to convince those people that they understood their problems or knew how to solve them and the traditional Right, don’t really care about them anyway so in step the mavericks. In step Farage & Trump spinning their lies and in our post-truth world it’s lap it up but both the Left and Traditional Right are flummoxed.

The disconnect between the governed and the governing seems to be bigger than I’ve ever known it and what is really disconcerting is how many still don’t vote.[/quote) they probably are even less likely to vote when they see when people do vote the powers that be use judges or other ruses to thwart the peoples will.

As far as most were concerned the vote was clear, vote in or out. As a remain voter I hould be glad but as a person who believes that you stand by the result , it is plain wrong

[Batman]

heard an interview on the radio from an American Diplomat.

firstly, the USA intends on extending a trade deal with the UK soonest (once outside of the EU) and the 'back of the queue' comment from Obama was staged.

also, Farage being seen as the 1st UK politician with trump is no accident.

The UK ambassador in the US built many ties and bridges with the Clinton clan but made absolutely zero attempt to do the same with the Trump camp.

He is expected to be replaced.

 

 

god know if true but heard it on the radio

[Jonnyboy]

The thing is that almost EVERYBODY considers themselves to be 'hard done by' to some extent - this is an ancient and near universal perception.

 

The fact that many of these Britex/Trump supporters are (in relative terms anyway) among the most fortunate Human Beings to ever inhabit the surface of this planet means little in the face of such a erroneous, but nevertheless widely held, sense of grievance. So it seems that there is a huge and growing audience of malcontents out there utterly convinced that they have some God-given right to the 'pursuit of happiness', people who blame any and every disappointment they may have suffered in life not on themselves but on somebody else - very often that new Mexican/Polish family (delete as appropriate) who have moved in next door, or even on the nebulous concept of a all-powerful 'establishment' controlling everything in the world.

 

Closer to the truth perhaps is that there is no sinister establishment Hell-bent of suppressing society but rather the forces of globalisation are changing the world in rapid and quite profound ways. Yes, sometimes this effect can be harmful and rapid change is always unsettling of course, but when you think about it technological change and globalisation has the potential to make the world a better place too. In any case, reacting to all this change by irrational - indeed potentially destructive - behaviour in the polling booths will slow the advance of globalisation about as effectively as King Canute delayed the tide.

 

Interesting fact of the day: billionaire Donald Trump opted to name his youngest son 'Barron' - now there's a true man of the people if ever I saw one ...

 

Very good post.

[Gemmel]

Don't worry lads - The wall can be part fence now :) :)

[Batman]

I've hardly seen anyone disputing the result, though you have to expect some discontent when Clinton won the popular vote. People will continue to oppose Trump's bigotry. The only reason you dislike that, it seems, is that you support Trump. Justify that instead of targeting his opponents.

 

reports coming out that Trump has won the 'popular vote' also.

[Wes Tender]

Interesting fact of the day: billionaire Donald Trump opted to name his youngest son 'Barron' - now there's a true man of the people if ever I saw one ...

 

Do you believe that that he can't spell Baron and that he really intended to confer an aristocratic title on his son because of some delusion of grandeur, like Nat King Cole, Count Basie, Queen Latifah, Duke Ellington, Prince, etc?

No, a little research reveals that it is nothing of the sort.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/21/the-amazing-story-of-donald-trumps-old-spokesman-john-barron-who-was-actually-donald-trump-himself/

[washsaint]

What a shock that election was. I can honestly tell you that no-one here could ever see that result coming - and I mean no-one: including Trumps campaign.

 

Now the shock has passed it kind of starts to make a bit of sense and I think VFtT hit the nail on the head. I live in Northern Virginia which is a bubble and unlike the rest of the country. Whether East Coast (Virginia up) or West Coast, the big cities are quite liberal and outward thinking. The Mid West and rural communites are the absolute opposite.

 

There are a lot of disenfranchised people out there - and they made the shock possible.

 

Clinton was almost universally despised and if she had been a regular Joe she would have been jailed for the emal scandal - without question. Add in the news that folks on Obamacare (those people not covered by big company plans) were about to see their health premiums rise upwards of 22%, talk of illegal immigrants being granted amnesty, etc. and you had a perfect storm for Trump to capitalize on.

 

To be honest I don't think anyone the Democrats put up (except maybe Biden) would have won - people are fed up with career politicians and the fact the status quo never changes no matter who is in power.

 

Some of Trumps views actually make some sense. Try to work with Putin against the common enemy, others in NATO paying their way, pulling back from TPP, not granting amnesty to illegals, investing in infrastructure and reducing the size of the Government.

 

Will be fascinating to see how this plays out as Republicans think they have it all now but Trump has already shown he is his own man and I think the purists in the Republicans could end up unhappy. This could also work well for the UK as Trump has said more than once that he holds the UK in high regard and Europe less so.

[washsaint]

Oh, and last thought for the day......

 

Don't know if it is being covered in the UK but there are demonstrations against Trump in many cities. Very much (I believe) like the UK a large proportion of these demonstrators are the 'me, me, me' Millennials.....the very same Millennials that did not get off their butts and vote but then want to complain about the outcome. Some reports say the turnout was around 16% for Millennials

[Lord Duckhunter]

What a shock that election was. I can honestly tell you that no-one here could ever see that result coming - and I mean no-one: including Trumps campaign.

 

Now the shock has passed it kind of starts to make a bit of sense and I think VFtT hit the nail on the head. I live in Northern Virginia which is a bubble and unlike the rest of the country. Whether East Coast (Virginia up) or West Coast, the big cities are quite liberal and outward thinking. The Mid West and rural communites are the absolute opposite.

 

There are a lot of disenfranchised people out there - and they made the shock possible.

 

Clinton was almost universally despised and if she had been a regular Joe she would have been jailed for the emal scandal - without question. Add in the news that folks on Obamacare (those people not covered by big company plans) were about to see their health premiums rise upwards of 22%, talk of illegal immigrants being granted amnesty, etc. and you had a perfect storm for Trump to capitalize on.

 

To be honest I don't think anyone the Democrats put up (except maybe Biden) would have won - people are fed up with career politicians and the fact the status quo never changes no matter who is in power.

 

Some of Trumps views actually make some sense. Try to work with Putin against the common enemy, others in NATO paying their way, pulling back from TPP, not granting amnesty to illegals, investing in infrastructure and reducing the size of the Government.

 

Will be fascinating to see how this plays out as Republicans think they have it all now but Trump has already shown he is his own man and I think the purists in the Republicans could end up unhappy. This could also work well for the UK as Trump has said more than once that he holds the UK in high regard and Europe less so.

 

Interesting insight , particularly the bit about the GOP. Trump isn't that much of a Republican anyway so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. The fascinating thing for me is seeing if he can maintain the facade of being an outsider whilst getting things done in Washington.

[buctootim]

Oh, and last thought for the day......

 

Don't know if it is being covered in the UK but there are demonstrations against Trump in many cities. Very much (I believe) like the UK a large proportion of these demonstrators are the 'me, me, me' Millennials.....the very same Millennials that did not get off their butts and vote but then want to complain about the outcome. Some reports say the turnout was around 16% for Millennials

 

So now people are culpable for the actions or inactions of other people who are the same age as them? They have lost the right to protest because somebody else didn't vote? Blimey, I knew we were heading down the authoritarian road, but didn't realise it would be so quick.

[whelk]

What a shock that election was. I can honestly tell you that no-one here could ever see that result coming - and I mean no-one: including Trumps campaign.

 

Now the shock has passed it kind of starts to make a bit of sense and I think VFtT hit the nail on the head. I live in Northern Virginia which is a bubble and unlike the rest of the country. Whether East Coast (Virginia up) or West Coast, the big cities are quite liberal and outward thinking. The Mid West and rural communites are the absolute opposite.

 

There are a lot of disenfranchised people out there - and they made the shock possible.

 

Clinton was almost universally despised and if she had been a regular Joe she would have been jailed for the emal scandal - without question. Add in the news that folks on Obamacare (those people not covered by big company plans) were about to see their health premiums rise upwards of 22%, talk of illegal immigrants being granted amnesty, etc. and you had a perfect storm for Trump to capitalize on.

 

To be honest I don't think anyone the Democrats put up (except maybe Biden) would have won - people are fed up with career politicians and the fact the status quo never changes no matter who is in power.

 

Some of Trumps views actually make some sense. Try to work with Putin against the common enemy, others in NATO paying their way, pulling back from TPP, not granting amnesty to illegals, investing in infrastructure and reducing the size of the Government.

 

Will be fascinating to see how this plays out as Republicans think they have it all now but Trump has already shown he is his own man and I think the purists in the Republicans could end up unhappy. This could also work well for the UK as Trump has said more than once that he holds the UK in high regard and Europe less so.

 

Jailed for the email thing? Comical mate. Do you know anything about it?

[whelk]

Trump has v low attention span and craves adulation. Loved his rallies and his team are looking into how they can maintain that. So easy to criticise from the outside and when all his promises will be broken I'm sure he won't be able to hack it. Only light is that he is appearing far more sensible and gracious since the result.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The bloke posts a decent analysis, and from the US ,& a couple of leftie clowns jump all over him.

[Lord Duckhunter]

So now people are culpable for the actions or inactions of other people who are the same age as them?.

 

**** me that's rich , you've spent months crying about how the oldies deprived you of your beloved EU.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Jailed for the email thing? Comical mate. Do you know anything about it?

 

The Fedeal records act requires all Governemnt communication be recorded on Governemnt servers , it also forbids the use of a personal email account for Government business . Therefore I don't quite see what you think is " comical" .