Sour Mash Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 ^ I guess that would just be plain old being very rude, insensitive and offensive to individuals affected by a tragedy. Rather like, say, taking the **** out of relatives of Zeebrugge Ferry victims would be? Police might arrest you for using "threatening or insulting words or behaviour" or something like that but would struggle to make out it was a hate crime. So you think it's more offensive referencing a historic massacre than taking the p**s out of the death of your friends/family. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 So you think it's more offensive referencing a historic massacre than taking the p**s out of the death of your friends/family. Fair enough. Where did I say that? I am simply explaining the difference between a hate crime and a non-hate crime. Unlike you I am not hell bent on point-scoring over fellow posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Where did I say that? I am simply explaining the difference between a hate crime and a non-hate crime. Unlike you I am not hell bent on point-scoring over fellow posters. So in reality there should be no difference between the two then, which was the original point you were disagreeing with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Why is it not the same offence to sing about Hillsborough or Munich? Oh sorry for not including those. They should also be included as they are abhorrent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Doesn't matter, we are getting relegated anyway, and they wouldn't have bought tickets next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Subjectively, the victims might not feel a difference in the level of offence experienced. But in hate crime the law sees the 'hate' aspect as aggravating. Many victims might also agree that the 'hate' aspect aggravates the offensiveness. Don't shoot the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Just cant believe that the Spurs fans' would moan about this, they call themselves Yids for a start anyway, actually sang it our game. Whilst imitating gas chambers etc. is a bit more than just banter perhaps, some people need to get a life. As for the Nazi gestures, well John Cleese made a living from it. Perhaps we should start taking picnics to the football with the extended family, make a whole day of it. ^ Jurassic Park has become a 'going concern' in Eastleigh now I see. As the two louts in question have been charged and convicted with an offence - they even admitted their guilt for god's sake - I do wonder whether you make a habit of attempting to excuse criminal behaviour in others, or do feel that buying a ticket to a football match entitles a fan to leave any standard of decent behaviour behind him at the turnstiles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 So in reality there should be no difference between the two then, which was the original point you were disagreeing with? I bet when you were told off in school you used to say 'but what about them sir it's not fair' The fact you try and justify it with such a pathetic line of argument speaks volumes. Still suspect you are at low ebb what with BNP folding recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 (edited) So you think it's more offensive referencing a historic massacre than taking the p**s out of the death of your friends/family. Fair enough. So they were 'referencing' a historical massacre now? And by massacre, I guess what you really meant to say was the systematic, industrially organised extermination of six million people, right? Just in the same way you about to point out the difference between a hate crime and nonhate crime. And why the former impinges on basic human values that might concern the rest of us - and only utter c**ts put this down to faux outrage. Without wanting to put words in your mouth, I assume you were going to acknowledge that there were probably a fair number of Jewish supporters in the Spurs end, that even if one supporter was offended (much in the same way as any Hillsborough survivor/victim), that was one too many -and anyway such bean counting is macabre, disingenuous and ultimately futile. Thanks for putting me at ease, pal. Edited 9 January, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 So they were 'referencing' a historical massacre now? And by massacre, I guess what you really meant to say was the systematic, industrially organised extermination of six million people, right? Just in the same way you about to point out the difference between a hate crime and nonhate crime. And why the former impinges on basic human values that might concern the rest of us - and only utter c**ts put this down to faux outrage. Without wanting to put words in your mouth, I assume you were going to acknowledge that there were probably a fair number of Jewish supporters in the Spurs end, that even if one supporter was offended (much in the same way as any Hillsborough survivor/victim), that was one too many -and anyway such bean counting is macabre, disingenuous and ultimately. Thanks for putting me at ease, pal. Where have I said there weren't any offended Spurs fans, Jewish or otherwise? Unlucky with that one 'pal'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Lol, yeah you. Don't tell me some of best friends are Jewish and chuckle along with you when you hiss at them as they look back on the death camps and sigh 'hey that's life' You are a bit thick aren't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 You are a bit thick aren't you. Getting a little embarrassed now that your racist views are being disagreed with. Top retort though thick boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 (edited) Where have I said there weren't any offended Spurs fans, Jewish or otherwise? Unlucky with that one 'pal'. Oh yeh, your argument is that there are likely to be more Hillsborough victims in the Liverpool end. (Quite apart from being possibly false), that's a proper moral and ethical clincher. Maimonides would be proud. You ever thought of going on the Moral Maze and dispensing your wisdom there. Fact is you couldn't give two shîts whether we're talking about victims of Hillsborough or the Holocaust and are only taking sides to the extent you think the reaction to the incident is over the top and unjustified. No luck needed. Edited 9 January, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 ^ Jurassic Park has become a 'going concern' in Eastleigh now I see. As the two louts in question have been charged and convicted with an offence - they even admitted their guilt for god's sake - I do wonder whether you make a habit of attempting to excuse criminal behaviour in others, or do feel that buying a ticket to a football match entitles a fan to leave any standard of decent behaviour behind him at the turnstiles? i would imagine they admitted their guilt because they were guilty. I think football has always been a place whereby you can lose yourself and social identity for a couple of hours. That's why these football hooligans included doctors and lawyers etc. Whilst I don't condone what these guys did and wouldn't do it myself, it's what happens at football, like it or not. The tribal aspect of the game comes to the surface and some people act like knobs for a couple of hours. Sometimes people go too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Getting a little embarrassed now that your racist views are being disagreed with. Top retort though thick boy. And again, keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 i would imagine they admitted their guilt because they were guilty. I think football has always been a place whereby you can lose yourself and social identity for a couple of hours. That's why these football hooligans included doctors and lawyers etc. Whilst I don't condone what these guys did and wouldn't do it myself, it's what happens at football, like it or not. The tribal aspect of the game comes to the surface and some people act like knobs for a couple of hours. Sometimes people go too far. Lol - amusing post and very enlightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 These lads sit directly infront of me. Annoyingly, they are all decent lads when you speak to them one on one, but they get a bit too over excited when they're all together. i saw the complaint go in to a steward by 2 Spurs fans...who to be fair, WERE visibly offended by the hissing. I didn't see any Nazi salutes but the hissing DID happen and probably from another 10 or so lads. This was in the first half and I predicted the outcome after seeing the complaint go to the steward (who rightly had to act on it). A couple of the lads got kicked out (peacefully) before their back up brigade got excited and got kicked out less peacefully while sticking up for their mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 i would imagine they admitted their guilt because they were guilty. I think football has always been a place whereby you can lose yourself and social identity for a couple of hours. That's why these football hooligans included doctors and lawyers etc. Whilst I don't condone what these guys did and wouldn't do it myself, it's what happens at football, like it or not. The tribal aspect of the game comes to the surface and some people act like knobs for a couple of hours. Sometimes people go too far. Fair enough. However, for me saying that we don't ''condone'' this type of behaviour is just not strong enough language given the appalling nature of what they did. The behaviour these two exhibited should be actively condemned - not only by a magistrate sitting in a court, but by football fans attending the match too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Lol - amusing post and very enlightening. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Suprised anyone is even questioning whether a ban is the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Suprised anyone is even questioning whether a ban is the right thing. I'm surprised that you are suprised (sic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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