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Koeman unimpressed by academy players


SuperSAINT

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Just back from a bloody chilly SMS. I thought we were poor in the first half. We looked disorganised, there was no communication going on (all you could hear was Spurs players shouting) and everyone looked below par. The youngster that came on (Vokins) looked out of his depth for 15 mins and we were lucky Spurs did not score. But things improved in the 2nd half, with our midfield players starting to recognise each other and we kept possession much better. A good run by Martina ended up with the ball falling nicely to Hesketh's feet and he finished nicely with a curler that gave the keeper no choice.

 

Harry Reed put himself about as usual, got booked for a reckless challenge but got stuck in and worked hard. Why he takes our dead ball kicks I don't know as his delivery is not good. Juanmi worked hard too but looked no better than anyone else. The 15-year old, Vokins, grew into the game and looked dangerous going forward. Lots of skill, not sure if he is a full-back but he can be pleased with his performance. Sam Gallagher struggled to get into the game. He is lacking confidence at the moment and that showed just before half-time when he was well-placed but chose to pass to Juanmi who fluffed the chance. Sam looks better playing through the middle and a goal would do him a world of good.

 

Debayo went off after 5 mins, with what looked like a broken arm. Alfie Jones in the central defender position acquitted himself well, his distribution was poor on occasions but he was up against a useful Tottenham front line and for a young lad looked composed. It helped having Martina next to him because he was very positive and powerful and gave Jones plenty of support. A lot of last year's team have not shown much improvement this season and I wonder if that has anything to do with the coaching. As I said there were times when we looked like 11 players who had never met before especially in the first 45 mins. It was a good point in the end.

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  • 7 months later...
Dodd and Williams were managing and coaching the U18's.

The club asked Dodd and Williams to move on as they wanted a slightly more modern approach to coaching and management of the players. The issue is that all the players liked Dodd and Williams. I think we have suffered at U18 level because they moved on and subsequent events as a consequence but lets not pretend that Dodd and Williams took average player and made them great. They had Stephens, Turnbull, Reed, JWP, Shaw, Chambers etc. They played their part but they were blessed with great players as well.

Could the undoubted charisma of Dodd and Williams (and those before them) have been a reason for the academy attracting so many high quality youngsters at the time?

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Could the undoubted charisma of Dodd and Williams (and those before them) have been a reason for the academy attracting so many high quality youngsters at the time?

 

The academy seems to have gradually slipped backwards since Georges Prost left. I'd credit him with making the right recruitments

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The academy seems to have gradually slipped backwards since Georges Prost left. I'd credit him with making the right recruitments

 

How'd you work that one out? Where exactly is the "Prost dip" and how doesn't it also correlate to the Lowe return and admin years?

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There's an extensive article about Koeman and his impact on Everton in The Times this morning. This sentence stuck a chord with me:

 

He has also made it clear that the first team is his overwhelming priority, to the extent that academy players are not permitted to use the gym at the same time as first-teamers.

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There's an extensive article about Koeman and his impact on Everton in The Times this morning. This sentence stuck a chord with me:

 

He has also made it clear that the first team is his overwhelming priority, to the extent that academy players are not permitted to use the gym at the same time as first-teamers.

 

Mmm?.......so much for the interview when Saints offered him the post and he said " he likes to work with younger players ...." :rolleyes:

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There's an extensive article about Koeman and his impact on Everton in The Times this morning. This sentence stuck a chord with me:

 

He has also made it clear that the first team is his overwhelming priority, to the extent that academy players are not permitted to use the gym at the same time as first-teamers.

 

Not surprised really. There seemed to be pretty strict restrictions even for academy players such as reed who trained with first team.

 

Also found it interesting that the league cup match the lack of academy players in their lineup despite him making a number of changes. Holgate who had already started several league games seemed the only one. Towards the back end of last season Martinez had the bench loaded with their youngsters and they were being talked up.

 

Clearly he's a very good manager but it is an issue and it did bug me. Hopefully Puel will prove to be good too and with more openness to academy progression to the first team.

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Koeman has a "big club" mentality when Pochetinno doesn't so much. By that, if there is a problem, just go out and drop a large number of millions on a player. If you are going to block the academy from having access to the 1st team, what really is the point in having an academy? To RK prob not much. To the club (like ours) quite a lot. So yes, he is a good manager, but short term success at the expense of long term viability?? And why should he care about the long term?

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Puel is dealing with the Academy players in a completely different way to Koeman. Morale amongst all the youth players is extremely high again and the hunger is back. From what I hear they are all loving the new management team; they feel involved because Puel spends time with them all, takes a huge interest in their training sessions and matches and the promise of a pathway into the first team is back on track.

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There's an extensive article about Koeman and his impact on Everton in The Times this morning. This sentence stuck a chord with me:

 

He has also made it clear that the first team is his overwhelming priority, to the extent that academy players are not permitted to use the gym at the same time as first-teamers.

 

Mmm?.......so much for the interview when Saints offered him the post and he said " he likes to work with younger players ...." :rolleyes:

 

Strange though because at Feyenoord he was credited with bringing a good crop of youngsters through and giving them their chance.

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Puel is dealing with the Academy players in a completely different way to Koeman. Morale amongst all the youth players is extremely high again and the hunger is back. From what I hear they are all loving the new management team; they feel involved because Puel spends time with them all, takes a huge interest in their training sessions and matches and the promise of a pathway into the first team is back on track.

 

Be interested to learn (roughly) how you know this. Otherwise. Good. Damn good. I like the fact that e.g. Sims has started to look like he used to before his injury and I think there's more to come from him. Other decent players in that team too.

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Be interested to learn (roughly) how you know this.

 

Through a friend whose son knows academy players. I also know someone who works at Staplewood and St Mary's sometimes. Granted they might not seem like the most ultra amazing K Billy type ITK contacts but from what they've both said it does appear that the atmosphere around the academy is so much better.

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Koeman has a "big club" mentality when Pochetinno doesn't so much. By that, if there is a problem, just go out and drop a large number of millions on a player. If you are going to block the academy from having access to the 1st team, what really is the point in having an academy? To RK prob not much. To the club (like ours) quite a lot. So yes, he is a good manager, but short term success at the expense of long term viability?? And why should he care about the long term?

Precisely. Koeman got results and we did well with him but his agenda was always about instant success and raising his own profile. it's no different with Everton now.

 

It's the worst kept secret around that his focus is on getting the Barca job next time it comes up and he wouldn't want to risk tarnishing his reputation by taking a chance on youngsters.

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Precisely. Koeman got results and we did well with him but his agenda was always about instant success and raising his own profile. it's no different with Everton now.

 

It's the worst kept secret around that his focus is on getting the Barca job next time it comes up and he wouldn't want to risk tarnishing his reputation by taking a chance on youngsters.

 

Exactly, Harrison Reed got a game vs Everton in December 2014 only because he was forced to that day, and then just dropped him- but still, where is MLG with his list of academy players under Koeman, where each player only got a couple of minutes haha :lol:

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Puel is dealing with the Academy players in a completely different way to Koeman. Morale amongst all the youth players is extremely high again and the hunger is back. From what I hear they are all loving the new management team; they feel involved because Puel spends time with them all, takes a huge interest in their training sessions and matches and the promise of a pathway into the first team is back on track.

More from that article in The Times yesterday:

 

"It is odd to relate given the two clubs’ respective league positions that many of Southampton’s players were pleased to see the back of Ronald Koeman after his departure to Everton this summer, although that may say more about them than him. The Dutchman’s distant and detached manner had begun to grate with a group accustomed to almost perpetual change in the dugout at St Mary’s, and his farewell did not cause much anguish."

Matt Hughes, Deputy Football Correspondent

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2016/oct/04/next-generation-2016-20-of-the-best-talents-at-premier-league-clubs

 

"Jake Vokins

Club Southampton

Position Defender

Born 17 March 2000

 

Named as a substitute at the age of 15 for the club's under-21 fixture with Tottenham Hotspur in February of this year, he came on in the opening minutes following an injury to a team-mate and amazed onlookers with his composure. Joined the Southampton academy at the age of eight and his rise has been impressive. Starting out as a left midfielder before his conversion to left-back, Vokins is savvy, technically sound, comfortable on the ball and a decent crosser. He has not looked back since that performance against Tottenham and he is expected to get games for the club's under-23s this season."

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Has the You Tube channel been abandoned since the launch of the new OS website?

 

They didn't show the U23's the other night anywhere either and now they seem to be ignoring tonight's game. They won't let us into Staplewood to watch the U23's - the official excuse given is that HSE won't allow it because of "building works going on" - but I didn't see any of the club's people with tin hats on. So if they are no longer going to show the junior matches, how are we suppose to get excited about these kids.

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Wonder if Koeman is as unimpressed with our U21's as he is with his own who lost 2-1 at Cheltenham last night.

 

Still its a bit unfair on their youngsters having to burden the weight of expectation at a club who invented the dugouts.

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Wonder if Koeman is as unimpressed with our U21's as he is with his own who lost 2-1 at Cheltenham last night.

 

Still its a bit unfair on their youngsters having to burden the weight of expectation at a club who invented the dugouts.

 

And the rest:

 

[TABLE=align: center]

[TR]

[TD]

Founder members of the Football League in 1888

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

Founder members of the FA Premier League in 1992

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to be presented with the League Championship trophy

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to present medals for winning the Championship

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to stage an FA Cup final 1894, Notts County v Bolton Wanderers

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club on Merseyside to win the FA Cup 1906

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to go on an overseas football tour

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to construct a purpose built football stadium

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a four-sided stadium with two tier stands

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a stadium with a three tier stand

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to issue a regular match programme for home fixtures

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a player (William Ralph Dean) score 60 league goals

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to wear numbered shirts from 1-11 (1933 FA Cup final)

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a church attached to its stadium

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to install dugouts

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to install undersoil heating

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to win a penalty shootout in the European Cup 1970 v Borussia Moenchengladbach

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to play 4000 top-flight games

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to amass 5000 League points

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to play 100 seasons in the top-flight

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to stage a World Cup semi-final in Britain

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have the youngest Premiership goalscorer in two consecutive seasons with two different players

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to break the £100,000 transfer threshold when

Alan Ball moved from Blackpool for £110,000 in 1966.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to be featured in a TV game in August 1936 v Arsenal. Not live (pre-recorded).

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have scoreboard half time/full time facility

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have its own podcast

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have its own online social networking site.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to sell tickets via text message.

.

First club to have a stick surgically removed from it's arse.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Speaking of the youth, does anyone know how Hesketh got on last night? I'd hate for his confidence to be knocked after the Israel trip.

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And the rest:

 

[TABLE=align: center]

[TR]

[TD]

Founder members of the Football League in 1888

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

 

First club to have a church attached to its stadium

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to install dugouts

[/TD]

 

First club to have a stick surgically removed from it's arse.

[/center]

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

 

Okay, I realise that was just a few 'off the top of your head' , but I suspect the Church was built before their ground.

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Speaking of the youth, does anyone know how Hesketh got on last night? I'd hate for his confidence to be knocked after the Israel trip.

 

It looked to me that he was struggling to find motivation. Dipped in and out. Knocked off the ball and passes going astray. Couple of weak shots. Towards the end as it got tense he stepped up and seemed to become more motivated and broke up play like he can. He also held up the ball in those vital last 5 minutes, but overall not one of his best performances. I suspect his confidence was affected negatively. He's bounced back once though so should be able to work through it. He's a talented player with a good football brain IMHO.

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And the rest:

 

First club to go on an overseas football tour

 

I've posted about this lie before. Southampton (and several other clubs) had been on several overseas tours, including to Europe and South America years before Everton went anywhere.

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And the rest:

 

[TABLE=align: center]

[TR]

[TD]

Founder members of the Football League in 1888

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

Founder members of the FA Premier League in 1992

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to be presented with the League Championship trophy

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to present medals for winning the Championship

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to stage an FA Cup final 1894, Notts County v Bolton Wanderers

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club on Merseyside to win the FA Cup 1906

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to go on an overseas football tour

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to construct a purpose built football stadium

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a four-sided stadium with two tier stands

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a stadium with a three tier stand

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to issue a regular match programme for home fixtures

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a player (William Ralph Dean) score 60 league goals

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to wear numbered shirts from 1-11 (1933 FA Cup final)

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have a church attached to its stadium

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to install dugouts

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to install undersoil heating

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to win a penalty shootout in the European Cup 1970 v Borussia Moenchengladbach

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to play 4000 top-flight games

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to amass 5000 League points

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to play 100 seasons in the top-flight

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to stage a World Cup semi-final in Britain

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have the youngest Premiership goalscorer in two consecutive seasons with two different players

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to break the £100,000 transfer threshold when

Alan Ball moved from Blackpool for £110,000 in 1966.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to be featured in a TV game in August 1936 v Arsenal. Not live (pre-recorded).

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have scoreboard half time/full time facility

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have its own podcast

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to have its own online social networking site.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

First club to sell tickets via text message.

.

First club to have a stick surgically removed from it's arse.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Speaking of the youth, does anyone know how Hesketh got on last night? I'd hate for his confidence to be knocked after the Israel trip.

 

I was told for a fact that Pompey was (and still is) the first club where the majority of season tickets holders dont have any teeth, and share the same DNA.

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