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Koeman unimpressed by academy players

SuperSAINT

By SuperSAINT,
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saintrich

saintrich

Posted
Posted
My faith in Koeman has certainly declined - why buy European players who aren't up to scratch when we could go for English ones - either our own or players like Gray who Leicester have just bought.

 

I'm sure half the Premier League tried to sign Gray, but he got to stay in the midlands and join a team that is flying. It doesn't mean we didn't try.

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Batman

Batman

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Posted
I'm sure half the Premier League tried to sign Gray, but he got to stay in the midlands and join a team that is flying. It doesn't mean we didn't try.

 

he said like Gray

We have needed a striker to replace/serious challenge Pelle since last january.

 

We were on a high 12 months ago (slide started there) but Pelle still manage 14 games on the bounce without a goal

Then the summer came, and Rodriguez was back. Fair enough But he has not been fit and even injured for a while now with no real indication if he will be back (and not get injured again)

 

Leicester, bournemouth needed certain players and got them in immediately. Have we done that? have we tried? Dunno. But Koeman has said he has at least spoken to the board about financing a new striker.

 

Throw in his public criticism of the academy and a few times he has said IF we bring in a player, it will br a striker. Safe to assume, he is trying to force things along a little. Which is a tad disappointing when this is a position we needed to strengthen 12 months ago and NOT with another Jaunmi but a player who could realistically put pelle in the stands.

 

Obviously it is not easy but there we are

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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My faith in Koeman has certainly declined - why buy European players who aren't up to scratch when we could go for English ones - either our own or players like Gray who Leicester have just bought.

 

 

Would going for English players who aren't up to scratch be better than going for European ones who aren't up to scratch? Or are you suggesting that being English somehow makes you a better player?

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Posted
he said like Gray

 

We have needed a striker to replace/serious challenge Pelle since last january.

 

 

 

We were on a high 12 months ago (slide started there) but Pelle still manage 14 games on the bounce without a goal

 

Then the summer came, and Rodriguez was back. Fair enough But he has not been fit and even injured for a while now with no real indication if he will be back (and not get injured again)

 

 

 

Leicester, bournemouth needed certain players and got them in immediately. Have we done that? have we tried? Dunno. But Koeman has said he has at least spoken to the board about financing a new striker.

 

 

 

Throw in his public criticism of the academy and a few times he has said IF we bring in a player, it will br a striker. Safe to assume, he is trying to force things along a little. Which is a tad disappointing when this is a position we needed to strengthen 12 months ago and NOT with another Jaunmi but a player who could realistically put pelle in the stands.

 

 

 

Obviously it is not easy but there we are

 

 

I think the club gambled heavily on Jrod coming back and picking up where he left off pre injury. If that gamble had paid off we'd probably all be a lot happier right now Unfortunately it didn't and it now looks like a bad decision by the club not to get another striker last summer.

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Saint86

Saint86

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Posted

The kids are good enough, you don't beat everton 3-0 with 7 of them in the squad if they aren't.

 

Seager is a natural goal scorer and has been prolific at every level he's played at. Don't forget we also have young calum and josh sims at that level.

 

As for Gallagher. He score under poch and got a number of appearances in the prem despite his dad dying. The kid is good enough and it is a failure of the current set up that no one other than Target is getting any game time.

 

We are buying fillers and putting them in the way of youth players. As a result the wage and transfer costs are going up and loyalty is going out the window. It is a terrible business model.

 

The fans need to stop buying the boards PR BS frankly. From the second Cortese was outed the new lot have set about using PR to tarnish his legacy and make sure that anyone who steps out of line at the club is at fault and this is then hinted at in the press or through little "ITK" snippets on the forums etc. I don't honestly believe that every time something goes against the club/board it is the other parties fault.... there is no smoke without fire and there has been far too many instances now... the only common denominator is the board.

 

Make absolutely no mistake, under poch, Seager, Gallagher, Target, Hekseth, McQueen, Gape etc would all have had far more opportunities than now, and we would possibly have seen Josh and Callum also.

 

All this is aside from the current results. I think Forster back in goal and we'll get back to winning ways. But there is very obviously a philosophy issue behind the scenes. I think the three players Koeman wanted this summer were Toby, VVD and Claise... I don't see how Juanmi and Martina fit into his style and these two seem like black box (post Mitchell) signings. I also think that the board would have sold both Wanyama and Mane this january given the chance and Koeman's very public and outspoken media comments that neither will be sold was done to make it very difficult for the board to flog em.

 

That said, he needs to be playing the kids. Most saints fans would excuse losses if it meant we were developing our own, and the club have seriously misjudged the fan base if they think differently.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
That doesn't make sense. Unless you give every single U21 player a sustained run in the team, which not one single club does.

 

Rubbish....what doesn't make sense is not giving them ANY game time when you have lost 9 out of 11 and your main strikers are injured or p1ssing you off!

Why a sustained run? you will see very quickly whether they can cope - Reed certainly did.

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

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Posted
Rubbish....what doesn't make sense is not giving them ANY game time when you have lost 9 out of 11 and your main strikers are injured or p1ssing you off!

Why a sustained run? you will see very quickly whether they can cope - Reed certainly did.

 

Ron, at the end of the game on Saturday, we had Targett and JWP on the pitch, with Reed and Seager on the bench. Not too bad really.

 

How many U21s did Palace have?

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
Ron, at the end of the game on Saturday, we had Targett and JWP on the pitch, with Reed and Seager on the bench. Not too bad really.

 

How many U21s did Palace have?

 

My problem is that we are not giving the ones we need to in areas we have issues in - as I have said before I am not totally convinced by Seager BUT he is different from any other striker we have. Its irrelevant now anyway as he wont get a game with us in this situation but the FA Cup was a great chance to test that.

Why bring on JWP whose contribution has been what in that many games? Or was the plan to just rely on his corner/free kick delivery - thats not worked out too well so far.

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philelec

philelec

Posted
Posted
With the under 21's playing this evening, don't expect any changes in the selection for Wednesday night's game. With Koeman we supporters just can't win and have to accept more of the same.

 

Does anyone know if this is being streamed anywhere?

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

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Posted
My problem is that we are not giving the ones we need to in areas we have issues in - as I have said before I am not totally convinced by Seager BUT he is different from any other striker we have. Its irrelevant now anyway as he wont get a game with us in this situation but the FA Cup was a great chance to test that.

Why bring on JWP whose contribution has been what in that many games? Or was the plan to just rely on his corner/free kick delivery - thats not worked out too well so far.

 

2 corners that we nearly scored from and a free-kick that needed an unbelievable save to keep out. Not too shabby.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
2 corners that we nearly scored from and a free-kick that needed an unbelievable save to keep out. Not too shabby.

 

Fair enough but point is we didn't score and just maybe having a box poacher could have helped.

Pelle may be back Wednesday so will strengthen us a bit

 

 

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Posted
Rubbish....what doesn't make sense is not giving them ANY game time when you have lost 9 out of 11 and your main strikers are injured or p1ssing you off!

Why a sustained run? you will see very quickly whether they can cope - Reed certainly did.

Why does not one single professional football club do that then?

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Saint Charlie

Saint Charlie

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Posted

Re Seager: send him on loan to L1 for a month or two and see how he does there.

 

We have nothing else to learn by him playing in diluted U21 football often against teenage CBs.

 

Gallagher barely got a look in at MK Dons (but may do more in L1?) so see if Seager does better.

 

If they don't stand out there then perhaps they aren't PL class.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

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Re Seager: send him on loan to L1 for a month or two and see how he does there.

 

We have nothing else to learn by him playing in diluted U21 football often against teenage CBs.

 

Gallagher barely got a look in at MK Dons (but may do more in L1?) so see if Seager does better.

 

If they don't stand out there then perhaps they aren't PL class.

 

Agree 100%.

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GGalpin

GGalpin

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Posted
Re Seager: send him on loan to L1 for a month or two and see how he does there.

 

We have nothing else to learn by him playing in diluted U21 football often against teenage CBs.

 

Gallagher barely got a look in at MK Dons (but may do more in L1?) so see if Seager does better.

 

If they don't stand out there then perhaps they aren't PL class.

 

Someone like Swindon?

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CityRanger

CityRanger

Posted
Posted
I might be wrong but I seem to recall it being said that there was a potential gap in quality in the academy between the last "generation" and the under 16's of the time. Isn't this what we are seeing now?

 

JWP, Matty Targett and Chambers are all current England U'21 internationals produced by our academy. I don't think they can be asked to do a lot more than that.

What's been left behind after Shaw and Chambers sale and JWP being regular first team squad still has a couple of players that people are championing on here for first team games so I don't think it's all that bad really.

I still think Reed was quality when I saw him last season and can't believe he hasn't kicked on though.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

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Posted
Why does not one single professional football club do that then?

 

Are you joking or explain because I am missing your point!

You don't think clubs play academy for 30 minutes in an F A Cup game?

Did you see who Liverpool played at right back in the quarter final?

 

 

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Are you joking or explain because I am missing your point!

You don't think clubs play academy for 30 minutes in an F A Cup game?

Did you see who Liverpool played at right back in the quarter final?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You said that the only way to ascertain if an U21 is good enough for the first team is to play them in the first team. That is clearly wrong, proven by the fact that no club plays every single U21 in their first team to see if they're good enough. It doesn't happen anywhere. For obvious reasons.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
You said that the only way to ascertain if an U21 is good enough for the first team is to play them in the first team. That is clearly wrong, proven by the fact that no club plays every single U21 in their first team to see if they're good enough. It doesn't happen anywhere. For obvious reasons.

 

I can't believe you thought I meant that. Wow that's some weird interpretation funny several others got it but you don't.

 

 

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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted
CYdNmFSWMAEzNeV.png

 

Strong team for us. Not sure on the team Liverpool have out but they are usually very good and I imagine we'll be seeking to defend well and make the most of our chances.

 

Liverpool are bottom of the U21 league with 1 win all season, and judging by the start of this game they were lucky to get that.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
Only you know what you meant, I'm commenting on what you've written.

 

Only me go back and read again that several agree only you that doesn't says enough really. By the way Flanagan who played against us in quarter is playing for their u21s but no team does that do they!

 

 

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Batman

Batman

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Posted
Only me go back and read again that several agree only you that doesn't says enough really. By the way Flanagan who played against us in quarter is playing for their u21s but no team does that do they!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

what is the liverpool line up tonight?

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Only me go back and read again that several agree only you that doesn't says enough really. By the way Flanagan who played against us in quarter is playing for their u21s but no team does that do they!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm not sure why you find it so difficult to understand how you're wrong, but don't let it bother you so much.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted
Surprised that Man Utd were rumoured to be interested in Hesketh since at 19 he's not seen much action for us http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14196337.GOSSIP__Manchester_United_want_Southampton_starlet/?ref=mr&lp=20

 

Also anyone know how Callum Slattery has been getting on this season? He was supposed to be very highly rated.

 

just for the record.

 

Jake Hesketh has featured in all 12 games the U21 s have played this season. He's scored 3 goals early on, but none since September.

 

Calum Slattery has started 10 +1 sub. (of the 18) the U18 s have played) . He was out injured for 5 weeks in early season. To date - no goals.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
Why? It is Marcus Barnes (a teammate of Hesketh) on commentary using his nickname. No different from teammates calling Jack Cork... Corky, Richard Chaplow... Chappy etc

FFS, do you really want to hear people shouting for Heskey in our team. You really should get out more and try to develop a sense of humour man.

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  • 2 weeks later...
david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted (edited)
U18s lost 7 in a row now I think.

 

Dismal really.

 

more disappointing ...they have had to use 23 players so far this season, includes quite a number of 16 year olds. Hardly a good recipe for consistancy.

 

Slattery and Olomola have been out with injuries, and defender Ben Rowthorn have been out, and CB Alfie Jones has moved up to the U21's.

 

I think 8 or 9 of the U18's have had game time with U21's so far, who have had problems themselves. Mc Carthy is on loan at Wycombe, Isgrove at Barnsley and Sam Gallagher had a fruitless 4 months wasted at MK Dons. If that wasn't bad enough....Mc Queen, Barnes and Sims have all been out with injuries at sometime.

Edited by david in sweden
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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

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Posted
more disappointing ...they have had to use 23 players so far this season, includes quite a number of 16 year olds. Hardly a good recipe for consistancy.

 

Slattery and Olomola have been out with injuries, and defender Ben Rowthorn have been out, and CB Alfie Jones has moved up to the U21's.

 

I think 8 or 9 of the U18's have had game time with U21's so far, who have had problems themselves. Mc Carthy is on loan at Wycombe, Isgrove at Barnsley and Sam Gallagher had a fruitless 4 months wasted at MK Dons. If that wasn't bad enough....Mc Queen, Barnes and Sims have all been out with injuries at sometime.

 

-despite his young age.

The U18s really have become very disappointing, though as you say quite a few have been playing with the U21s. The Club really need to be looking at whether we have the best coaches possible, the evidence suggests we don't.

Minor point but Isgrove is not an U21.

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