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Koeman unimpressed by academy players


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I said as much on this thread yesterday. It doesn't do the club's reputation of having a top class academy much good either!

He won a lot of praise for last season and saw his name linked with big jobs. I think he's distancing himself to try and keep his reputation intact.

I can't see his comments being welcomed by the board who are trying to sell our academy excellence to a wider market.

I don't see him as our future but would be happy to be proved wrong.

 

I think you are right here. I reckon it all hinges on the next two games. I have a sneaky feeling we may pull out of the nose dive, but we need also to make some very astute signings this January. Otherwise it could all end in tears.

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I think that almost as important as a vibrant academy is to put together a proper strategy in terms of loaning out young players to the right clubs. Would it have better to send Sam Gallagher to a division two club to get his confidence and score a hatful of goals? Defenders need to go to teams that will raise their game in the championship.

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The arguments really do fall down when you see Seager never getting a minute and Long starting every week. Or Reed frozen out by a midfield that opposition run past easily each week.

 

Koeman can slag off our academy, but we can slag off his signings.

 

Shane Long has proven himself as an effective premier league player, especially for us. Seager has great potential but should not be starting ahead of him.

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He could have come on today instead of JWP. We needed a goal

 

Fair point and I'd probably agree, I didnt know what subs were made as I was at work.

But the slagging off of Shane Long needs to stop. He's done a good job for us. Remembering of course that actually when everyone is fit, Long isn't starting every week.

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That's not the point I'm making. We could talk all day on here about whether certain players from the academy are good enough or not.

 

I just can't see any benefit to the club for Ron to say what he has about the academy players to the press. I think he's thinking about himself rather than the club.

 

We are a club renowned for our "excellent" academy, it's important for our reputation in this country and now worldwide. Whether the current crop of players are crap or not, we don't need it fed to the media that our manager doesn't think they are up to much! Why not be positive and say that there is some real talent, but it's not ready yet - even if it's bullsh*t?

 

Some on here have surmised that he said it to put pressure on the club - to spend.

My personal opinion, and it's just an opinion, is that he is looking after his own reputation (also mentioned in the Neil Ashton article you linked earlier) Any question marks about why he hasn't brought through academy players at Saints, might call into question his coaching ability, and therefore his next "big" job - which I'm sure he has an eye on. He's aware of this, so gives his honest view on them - they're not good enough, it's not my fault!

Thing is this doesn't do the club's rep much good and therefore I think he was wrong to say it.

 

You make some very good points. He's under pressure due to results and he's under pressure to pick youngsters as that has happened before him.

 

I think you are right he could have said there is talent but it's not ready, but I suspect the local journalists will come back with, "but what about Reed. He looked good in his twenty minute cameos."

 

he is setting these people straight about what options he really has. He's protecting himself for sure, but sometimes people need to be told the cold truth. Is it his fault we don't have anyone coming through?

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He could have come on today instead of JWP. We needed a goal

 

My case in point right here. Even when RK make it quite clear that Seager is not ready we still have fans demanding they play. RK picked Targett today. He picked youth. And what do you know Targett was ****. It's not the route to the first team that's the problem it's the players.

Edited by Chez
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Fair point and I'd probably agree, I didnt know what subs were made as I was at work.

But the slagging off of Shane Long needs to stop. He's done a good job for us. Remembering of course that actually when everyone is fit, Long isn't starting every week.

 

The slagging of players and management on this forum is shamefull, criticism is one thing but the appalling things said

about individuals is disgusting and these "supporters" cannot be considered fans.

Everyone is unhappy with results but the singling out of some is a disgrace and I am sick of reading it.

,

Posters complain on here about some not accepting things are wrong, its far from the truth and speaking as one of them, I

fully accept that results need to change but our support is what is needed not calling x y z player s hit, particularly

as its not true.

 

We are badly out of form and low on confidence in my opinion and many others I'm sure.

 

This team is not suddenly s hit just struggling

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Fair point and I'd probably agree, I didnt know what subs were made as I was at work.

But the slagging off of Shane Long needs to stop. He's done a good job for us. Remembering of course that actually when everyone is fit, Long isn't starting every week.

 

No he hasn't he's been pretty darn poor. 12 million and he works hard but no skill and composure.

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You make some very good points. He's under pressure due to results and he's under pressure to pick youngsters as that has happened before him.

 

I think you are right he could have said there is talent but it's not ready, but I suspect the local journalists will come back with, "but what about Reed. He looked good in his twenty minute cameos."

 

he is setting these people straight about what options he really has. He's protecting himself for sure, but sometimes people need to be told the cold truth. Is it his fault we don't have anyone coming through?

 

Hi Chez, it could be argued that part of his job description has been to integrate them into the team, his experience at Feyenoord I thought, was one of the reasons he was supposed to be a good fit for us. Whether they are good enough or not (which could be debated) some will say that if Ronald Koeman says they aren't good enough then he knows best, after all - it's Ronald Koeman!!!! But maybe, just maybe, he isn't the great judge of players that we expect him to be, maybe he isn't as good a coach as we have been lead to believe he is (based on last season). Another coach might have an entirely different view on the academy talent and a different way of trying to integrate them.

 

In the end though, I don't give a single solitary **** about Ron's reputation, if he brings negative press upon the club like this one;

 

"Ronald Koeman not impressed as Southampton's famous academy production line stalls"

 

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/486317/Ronald-Koeman-Southampton-academy

 

Unprofessional in my view and creates a negative perception about the club. (even if his comments are honest and true). Criticise the academy, the club's pride and joy, and I think he's only got one place to go, and that's out I'm afraid.

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You cant integrate youth into the first team if they are not good enough to get in the side.

 

I'm not a fan of Koeman. Whether he is a good coach or not is hard to say. Only players can really tell you that. His eye for a player is certainly in question, but the more I see of Classie the more I like him and he was his big signing of the summer.

 

It could be argued that he has shown too much faith in youth. Targett is miles off the level required in the top flight, yet he is second choice left back. JWP has his detractors, I personally think he has improved as this season has gone on, and he gets a lot of game time.

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You cant integrate youth into the first team if they are not good enough to get in the side.

 

I'm not a fan of Koeman. Whether he is a good coach or not is hard to say. Only players can really tell you that. His eye for a player is certainly in question, but the more I see of Classie the more I like him and he was his big signing of the summer.

 

It could be argued that he has shown too much faith in youth. Targett is miles off the level required in the top flight, yet he is second choice left back. JWP has his detractors, I personally think he has improved as this season has gone on, and he gets a lot of game time.

 

No evidence that jwp has improved if anything he's getting worse.

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The arguments really do fall down when you see Seager never getting a minute and Long starting every week. Or Reed frozen out by a midfield that opposition run past easily each week.

 

Koeman can slag off our academy, but we can slag off his signings.

Long is a better player than Seager. Romeu and Clasie are better players than Reed. I'm not sure why that is such a difficult concept to understand.
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You cant integrate youth into the first team if they are not good enough to get in the side.

 

I'm not a fan of Koeman. Whether he is a good coach or not is hard to say. Only players can really tell you that. His eye for a player is certainly in question, but the more I see of Classie the more I like him and he was his big signing of the summer.

 

It could be argued that he has shown too much faith in youth. Targett is miles off the level required in the top flight, yet he is second choice left back. JWP has his detractors, I personally think he has improved as this season has gone on, and he gets a lot of game time.

 

If they aren't good enough, they aren't good enough, I agree. But maybe the coaching isn't great either and we aren't getting the best out of them.

Also, it comes down to opinions too. You only have to read this forum to see how posters perceive different things during a match, some say JWP is improving, some say he's terrible, others - Clasie great, no he's sh*t, Ron's great it's all the boards fault for crap purchases, no, Ron is awful he's gotta go.

We all see different things - Ron might be getting it wrong too, maybe not getting the best out of what he has available, or maybe the board have too much faith in the academy products, who knows?!

 

My own opinion is that Koeman isn't as good as we think he is, or he thinks he is.

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I think he just expects heavy investment. I think that was his expectation when coming to England. Quite a lot of cash has been spent and not all of it wisely.

 

I don't think for one minute that he's been let down , lied to or misled about our spending , players sales or wages . Personally, I've no doubt that the board outlined our approach when speaking to him initially and he accepted them . I refuse to believe that they told him nobody would be leaving , or he was promised a certain amount and that's not been forthcoming . If anyone has moved the goal posts it's likely to have been Ron now he's under a bit of pressure .

 

Perhaps the spending by other " also rans" has surprised him and he now feels that we should push the boat out a bit more . Equally I'm sure he had every intention of agreeing to our pathway regarding youth , but maybe they're not as good as he was led to believe.

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I don't think for one minute that he's been let down , lied to or misled about our spending , players sales or wages . Personally, I've no doubt that the board outlined our approach when speaking to him initially and he accepted them . I refuse to believe that they told him nobody would be leaving , or he was promised a certain amount and that's not been forthcoming . If anyone has moved the goal posts it's likely to have been Ron now he's under a bit of pressure .

 

Perhaps the spending by other " also rans" has surprised him and he now feels that we should push the boat out a bit more . Equally I'm sure he had every intention of agreeing to our pathway regarding youth , but maybe they're not as good as he was led to believe.

 

I agree with your points above, though I would debate the academy players not being good enough, that comes down to motivation.

I think the perception of the PL abroad is that clubs spend their way out of trouble. Now that we are in trouble, he expects investment.

Personally, I am not confident that providing investment to this particular manager is worthwhile, sad as I am to say it.

I'm inclined to believe the issues outlined by Guan.

Edited by Plastic
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didnt the U21s win the Cup last season. With a few/many of these players who are no longer good enough?

 

when was the last time a group of young players won something? (serious question, dont know)

Since when does winning the U21 cup mean you are good enough for the Premier League?

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Since when does winning the U21 cup mean you are good enough for the Premier League?

 

Agreed. That might point to good coaching, a great team work ethic and a large group of decent players. What the first team needs is one absolute top notch player to come out of the batch of youngsters. If you get a Shaw and 10 others not fit to lace his boots that's probably preferable.

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Yep. Play them, which is what Koeman did yesterday with Targett at left back and he got made to look a mug by Zaha.

 

true again

I'd like to have seen seagar come on yesterday when we were needing a goal. Which we have been for many weeks.

but that is a small point I guess.

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Yep. Play them, which is what Koeman did yesterday with Targett at left back and he got made to look a mug by Zaha.

 

I'd just like to have seen the others a bit over the last 18 months. You know, when Pelle was sulking, when vic was walking around, when clasie was injured. It provides motivation and that in itself is worthwhile.

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true again

I'd like to have seen seagar come on yesterday when we were needing a goal. Which we have been for many weeks.

but that is a small point I guess.

 

This Seager lad better be good, because he has become the best young player ever on this forum.

 

If he was a Shearer he'd of got his chance by now, but I suspect he's not. As with all young players they get a chance every day to shine on the training pitch. It's not all five a sides.They will have the chance to play against first team players in attack be defence and even full 11 vs 11 situations. If Seager is running Fonte ragged and smashing the ball past Forster etc., then RK will see that. Good players stand out.

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This Seager lad better be good, because he has become the best young player ever on this forum.

 

If he was a Shearer he'd of got his chance by now, but I suspect he's not. As with all young players they get a chance every day to shine on the training pitch. It's not all five a sides.They will have the chance to play against first team players in attack be defence and even full 11 vs 11 situations. If Seager is running Fonte ragged and smashing the ball past Forster etc., then RK will see that. Good players stand out.

not really. we have lost 8 out of 10 and struggling to score. something else may work in the odd game.

yesterday, we need a goal, no points were up for grabs and we bring on the prolific JWP. predictably, we never scored

 

as said, small points. Not saying he should be starting or getting in ahead of Mane. But when pelle is out and Long does not look like scoring. give the lad 10 mins. One may come off his arse and go in.

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I'd just like to have seen the others a bit over the last 18 months. You know, when Pelle was sulking, when vic was walking around, when clasie was injured. It provides motivation and that in itself is worthwhile.

 

Which others? The less we see of Targett the better. So it's basically Reed and Seager.

 

I agree with you about Reed, but I've seen posts on here saying he's not done it at u21 level and therefore hasn't deserved to play ahead of Romeu and JWP.

 

So that leaves Seager.

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Which others? The less we see of Targett the better. So it's basically Reed and Seager.

 

I agree with you about Reed, but I've seen posts on here saying he's not done it at u21 level and therefore hasn't deserved to play ahead of Romeu and JWP.

 

So that leaves Seager.

 

I've never seen Seager play, but I'd like to.

I'd never seen Gallager play until I went to the Yeovil match last year. He played well and scored. I can confidently say that I don't believe Koeman would have played him.

Reed is worth a game a month IMO, and if he isn't ready then neither is Clasie.

Interestingly, JWP plays regularly and I see nothing of merit in his performances (this may make me a hypocrite), I can't believe Reed would be any less effective.

 

Also Targett was awful when he first started in the team, but after a run of games started improving, confidence is fragile but makes all the difference.

Edited by Plastic
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I've never seen Seager play, but I'd like to.

I'd never seen Gallager play until I went to the Yeovil match last year. He played well and scored. I can confidently say that I don't believe Koeman would have played him.

Reed is worth a game a month IMO, and if he isn't ready then neither is Clasie.

Interestingly, JWP plays regularly and I see nothing of merit in his performances (this may make me a hypocrite), I can't believe Reed would be any less effective.

 

Also Targett was awful when he first started in the team, but after a run of games started improving, confidence is fragile but makes all the difference.

 

Koeman not playing Gallagher would be no great loss. Clearly not good enough and never will be. Shipped off to L1 sooner or later

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Koeman not playing Gallagher would be no great loss. Clearly not good enough and never will be. Shipped off to L1 sooner or later

 

Perhaps true. But I was happy to see an academy product score. It justified the whole academy approach.

Currently, our academy seems irrelevant.

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Perhaps true. But I was happy to see an academy product score. It justified the whole academy approach.

Currently, our academy seems irrelevant.

 

It seems likely to me that there is truth in both the U21's not having enough players of the required ability for our first team right now and Koeman also not having enough faith in giving the likes of Seager or Reed a proper chance.

 

Personally one the things I've always liked about our club is that we tend to find out if a player isn't good enough by giving them a chance. With the season over in January (bravo at the club for achieving that by the way - 6 months ago we were in three cup competitions and thought to be one of the 'best of the rest' and now our season is over - quite some achievement) once we have steadied the ship I would like to see us at least give the young players a chance. And if the suspicion is that they aren't good enough and that is confirmed then at least they got a chance and Koeman is proved right. If they don't get a chance then the issue is not just that those players become disgruntled, it is also that we become like any other club and we are less of an attractive proposition for youngsters in the future. Join Chelsea and don't get a chance and earn more, or join Saints and don't get a chance and earn less...

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You cant integrate youth into the first team if they are not good enough to get in the side.

 

We all like to think that the Academy wil produce a new Walcott, Bale or Shaw every season, but it 'aint gonna happen !

 

Should we criticise Ronald Koeman for telling the truth as he sees it ?....Certainly not !.....or would you rather he came out with a load of bu**sh*t PR quotes.

 

It's no-one's fault, we give then a chance and either they're good enough ....or they're not.

 

...... we should publish the line above every day until that sinks in ....

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We all like to think that the Academy wil produce a new Walcott, Bale or Shaw every season, but it 'aint gonna happen !

 

Should we criticise Ronald Koeman for telling the truth as he sees it ?....Certainly not !.....or would you rather he came out with a load of bu**sh*t PR quotes.

 

It's no-one's fault, we give then a chance and either they're good enough ....or they're not.

 

...... we should publish the line above every day until that sinks in ....

 

Agreed, but at moment RK`s comments are just being used as an outlet for whining and beating the club with despite them being true

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Agreed, but at moment RK`s comments are just being used as an outlet for whining and beating the club with despite them being true

 

Do you think Rk's comments appearing in the national press, (where they twist it to use words like "Koeman slams academy" or "academy stalls" ) are good for the club or bad?

Edited by Chalkboy
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Do you think Rk's comments appearing in the national press, (where they twist it to use words like "Koeman slams academy" or "academy stalls") are good for the club or bad?

 

I cant think of 1 positive in publicly slating the Academy players !?

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Do you think Rk's comments appearing in the national press, (where they twist it to use words like "Koeman slams academy" or "academy stalls") are good for the club or bad?

 

Not sure, because we all know how these rags want to sensationalize to sell copies and as lots of people are gullible and believe everything they read

as gospel so in that situation it is bad. I m sure they do publish the truth a times but because the rubbish put out, outweighs the truth it is difficult to

identify which is which.

 

In the long run i guess it makes little difference whether it`s good or bad as people should make up their own mind..

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Not sure, because we all know how these rags want to sensationalize to sell copies and as lots of people are gullible and believe everything they read

as gospel so in that situation it is bad. I m sure they do publish the truth a times but because the rubbish put out, outweighs the truth it is difficult to

identify which is which.

 

In the long run i guess it makes little difference whether it`s good or bad as people should make up their own mind..

 

People do make their own minds up yet that doesn't stop you squinnying on every other thread about how mean and orrible everyone is being about our atrocious form and hugely underwhelming season.

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People do make their own minds up yet that doesn't stop you squinnying on every other thread about how mean and orrible everyone is being about our atrocious form and hugely underwhelming season.

 

Just do one :rolleyes: but before you go....it also does`nt stop whinging from the likes of you on every other thread posting the same

doom and gloom crap but in your world thats ok ...is it..?

 

If views of impending doom were posted less often then the reaction you don`t like to posts would`nt be there would they...is that easy for you to work out?

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We all like to think that the Academy wil produce a new Walcott, Bale or Shaw every season, but it 'aint gonna happen !

 

Should we criticise Ronald Koeman for telling the truth as he sees it ?....Certainly not !.....or would you rather he came out with a load of bu**sh*t PR quotes.

 

It's no-one's fault, we give then a chance and either they're good enough ....or they're not.

 

...... we should publish the line above every day until that sinks in ....

 

That's not how coaching and development works. You have to nurture young players, give them opportunities to improve and help them reach their potential and hopefully the first team. No one is 'good enough' to start with. One way to help them reach that goal is encouragement, rather than public criticism.

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