Gaston.... .the cost of being a Saint...

[david in sweden]

Pretty sure everyone at the club is acutely aware that the player needs to be paid after he is purchased.

Overall cost of deals are always factored into every signing whether they are a free transfer or under contract and require a transfer fee.

 

Everyone is getting excited because they've seen the total cost of Ramirez to Saints over 4 years, but the Osvaldo figures are far worse.

 

I 'm not sure that anyone (outside of the club) has any real idea of the cost of that fiasco....it'll be a shock. Wait until the accounts are published and see.

[david in sweden]

David,

 

I do recall reading somewhere before he signed that Osvaldo was a bit of a handful to manage but Poch thought he could tame him!

 

As for Ramirez, I think he is a decent player but just not suited to the Premiership.

 

 

Agree with you on both points.

[david in sweden]

Record signings are a curse for us since I've been following saints, remember Agustin Delgado with rumours the following season or 2 we could of signed Drogba for less

 

When arriving at SMS, Gordon Strachan said that (Delgado) was " a done deal " before he took over as manager. (Put that one down to Rupert Lowe's enthusiasm)

 

There was also story(?) ..that Drogba /or his agent...... actually spoke with Saints, when he first appeared on the scene and discussed terms.

 

Rupert Lowe (apparantly) didn't want to pay him more than £2K /week and offered less, and that he didn't like Drogba, because....he thought he had " an attitude :lol:"

 

......and we thought Cortese was an amateur.

[Doctoroncall]

from the guardian report:

 

[h=2]Loan deal![/h]Middlesbrough, whose promotion charge has hit a slight road bump with consecutive defeats, have bolstered their attacking options by bringing in Gaston Ramírez on loan from Southampton. He will reportedly take a big hit on his £60,000-a-week pay packet, dropping to £40,000, with half of that coming from Boro and the other half coming from his parent club.

[sadoldgit]

from the guardian report:

 

[h=2]Loan deal![/h]Middlesbrough, whose promotion charge has hit a slight road bump with consecutive defeats, have bolstered their attacking options by bringing in Gaston Ramírez on loan from Southampton. He will reportedly take a big hit on his £60,000-a-week pay packet, dropping to £40,000, with half of that coming from Boro and the other half coming from his parent club.

 

Just reading this as they have announced it on the Radio 2 news! Fair play to him and I hope he does well at Boro.

[angelman]

£21m? Liverpool, Spurs and many other PL clubs have lost that in a morning. The fact that some keep harping on about Osvaldo, Ramirez, Mayuka and Forren shows just how good our transfer policy has been.

 

Agree (I think). There are always going to be some mistakes. Forren I see as insurance to CB that we never need to call on. Mayuka was what £2.5m and on paper could have been superb. Osvaldo, sure a complete and utter **** up. Ramirez - expensive for sure but the figure of £21m is ridiculous. We have to have players and they have to be paid. Some players you are going to turn a profit on, some you aren't. Now looking at what he did on the pitch.

 

1st season 26 league games, 5 goals, 3 assists. Is that a total waste?

2nd season 18 league games. 1 goal, 3 assists. Again, is this a total waste of money that would make up the £21m

3rd season - mostly at Hull, who I presume paid most of his wages, so guess that this is accounted for in the figures.

4th season - first half seems a waste, 2nd half at Boro, so presume again that this has been accounted for.

 

No idea whether the £21m accounts for a loan fee. Presume not and that it is £12m fee + 3 x £3m or something akin to that. But anyway, take the first season and wages of £3m. I am not sure how one can say that that was completely wasted. Nor the second season's wage. That his return was not what was expected happens. Happens at most clubs as well. Some players adapt, some don't. So if you want to analyse it, 2 seasons from a 4 year contract = £6m in fees and £6m in wages that we got use out of. There, that's £12m not wasted from the £21m. Expensive for what he gave us, but not TOTALLY wasted like some are trying to make out.

 

A shame it didn't work out, but he also served a purpose and laid a marker for SFC and that we were prepared to spend.

[Batman]

thought he was pretty decent under adkins

[angelman]

I seem to recall that he was OK, had some really good touches, but you just wanted him to push on to the next level and be brilliant, like those brief flashes demonstrated he could be.

 

It was interesting what Clasie said when he came. Getting the injury so early on, allowed him to hit the gym and bulk up, which he did. But he said that a lot of the youngsters were really fit, and much stronger physically than those in Holland at a similar age. Maybe that was one of Gaston's problems - he need to bulk up, something that might not have been so needed in Serie A, to stop being brushed aside too easily.

[lickierambert]

His best goal was away at Everton I seem to remember in 2012-2013

 

His best performance was at home to Newcastle when we won 2-0. That was an important game which made us feel like we could belong at this level.

[Saint IQ]

I'll always remember him coming on under MP with about 15 mins to go in a drab 0-0 with little or no chances for either side at home to West Brom. One of the best assists I've seen with a curling first time ball over the top to Lallana's feet to score the only goal of the game.

Edited 26 January, 2016 by Saint IQ

[ScepticalStan]

Its going to be tough for the good-honest-tackle English football mong brigade once Ramirez has gone.

 

Which 'fancy-Dan Carlos-kickaball foreigner' will they be able to scapegoat when a jolly good old British hard-worker like Davis or JWP fails to add anything going forward?

[JxgrSaint]

Its going to be tough for the good-honest-tackle English football mong brigade once Ramirez has gone.

 

Which 'fancy-Dan Carlos-kickaball foreigner' will they be able to scapegoat when a jolly good old British hard-worker like Davis or JWP fails to add anything going forward?

 

Is Ireland foreign enough?

[Redslo]

Record signings are a curse for us since I've been following saints, remember Agustin Delgado with rumours the following season or 2 we could of signed Drogba for less

 

I think Rodriguez and Wanyama were both record signings.

[david in sweden]

His best goal was away at Everton I seem to remember in 2012-2013

 

His best performance was at home to Newcastle when we won 2-0. That was an important game which made us feel like we could belong at this level.

 

Mmmm..but how was he on his other 46 appearances?

[Saint86]

People need to seriously stop counting osvaldo as a record signing, we paid £9m for him. This £15m myth is embarrassing.

[ScepticalStan]

Is Ireland foreign enough?

 

Judging by the adulation reserved for our five-goal-a-season man Shane Long, nowhere near.

[CB Fry]

Its going to be tough for the good-honest-tackle English football mong brigade once Ramirez has gone.

 

Which 'fancy-Dan Carlos-kickaball foreigner' will they be able to scapegoat when a jolly good old British hard-worker like Davis or JWP fails to add anything going forward?

 

How is Gaston a "scapegoat"?

 

Fair play you are consistently writing drivel on this forum. Please keep it up.

Edited 26 January, 2016 by CB Fry

[Saintsteve7]

Depends what you consider by 'proven'. Pelle and Tadic were proven in Holland, Mane in Austria and Van Dijk in Scotland, but no-one would consider those leagues to be anything above the standard of the Championship. All four (understandably I might add) had their fair share of doubters and whilst none have been world-beaters, those four signings have all worked out well enough in terms of value for money. You can arguably add Wanyama and Forster to that list as well.

 

In addition, Clyne had only played in the Championship before we signed him and Bertrand's Premiership career had largely consisted of a series of fairly unimpressive loans out here and there.

 

So that's eight first-team players that were all originally unproven, but have all been really quite successful, bought for a total value of just under £80Mn.

 

Proven quality in the Premiership is expensive. Extremely expensive. United had to pay £25Mn for what they knew would amount to one-and-a-bit season's worth of Robin Van Persie at the peak of his abilities. Everton have shelled out £28Mn for Lukaku and most would agree that he's actually proved to be a bargain. Berahino only scored 14 Premiership goals last season (including penalties) and only has three in this, yet he'll likely command £20Mn or so as he's quite clearly capable of some level of the consistency that all Premier League managers crave.

 

Maybe I'm getting too hung up on strikers, but examples can be found closer to home. Hell, look at our own Ryan Bertrand; a series of unimpressive loans, didn't look good at Villa and wasn't wanted by Chelsea. In the summer of 2014 it looked like he'd have to drop down a league until we signed him. Then, bang; after only five or six month's of proving himself as a reliable regular in a very solid Premiership team (to be honest, for the first time in his career) he set us back a fairly hefty £10Mn. That's a lot for a not-particularly-young defender who had only just come good, but come good he had - and it was clear that he was a player one could rely upon for consistency rather than flashes of brilliance here and there. That causes your value to skyrocket. Look at Lovren; £20Mn for a defender who had one (very good, in fairness, but still just one) season under his belt.

 

Football is football but with the melting pot of foreign players, managers and external influences along with the far more diverse range of tactics across Europe's major and minor leagues, its becoming harder and harder to predict whether a player will be a success or an almighty flop. That's part of the reason Shane Long cost £12 million. He's nothing special but you know exactly what he gives you; if you're a manager with Shane Long on the bench you know the precise nature of one of the weapons in your arsenal. That in itself is worth decent money these days.

 

Simple truth is that Southampton are almost never going to be in a position where we can sign seriously 100% proven quality. There will always be a large element of risk and calculated estimating going on.

 

These thread's remind me of the one's about the kind of striker we need to sign when Pelle isn't firing, Rodriguez is still injured and Shane Long can't control the ball. People describe a striker with pace, who can hold up the ball, shoot from distance with both feet and dominate in the air, yet lose track of the fact that with every descriptive sentence, they've added another £10-12 million to this fantasy striker's value.

 

Spot on sir!

[cellone]

I think Rodriguez and Wanyama were both record signings.

Delap too.

 

Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk

[Saint IQ]

I think Rodriguez and Wanyama were both record signings.

 

True but it doesn't really count if they don't have the 'tag' for more than a month or 2. They barely even played a game for us being our record signing

[Saint IQ]

People need to seriously stop counting osvaldo as a record signing, we paid £9m for him. This £15m myth is embarrassing.

 

Source? Came out as 12.8m with add ons and which was slightly higher than Wanyama plus the fact they kept saying it was our record signing on SSN. Glad if we only paid 9m for him to score a wonder goal at home to Man City, obviously as its less than 13m

[david in sweden]

Just read Echo item about the total cost of Cortese's catastrophic spending spree during his time at the helm when he held the cheque book. Estimated cost £50 million.

 

Just as well we have the new TV sponsorship money on the way, because for any club outside the Prem. that could certainly spell financial disaster....

 

Most of the team that saw us through the first season back up were bought for between £100K - £250K with only the Lambert and Fonte deals topping £1 million.

Precisely why Cortese negotiated those three deals..at such a cost..for so little return?...only he can answer. Strange it was through his Italian / Swiss contacts.

 

It goes to show that accountants who know how to manipulate (sorry, balance).. the books doesn't qualify them for an extra measure of football nous.

 

Although we've spent more than that on players since, it can be said that most of them have given value for money so far. Even Shane Long's critics are quieter now.

[angelman]

Most of the team that saw us through the first season back up were bought for between £100K - £250K with only the Lambert and Fonte deals topping £1 million.

Precisely why Cortese negotiated those three deals..at such a cost..for so little return?...only he can answer. Strange it was through his Italian / Swiss contacts.

 

 

Gazza - £2.5m

Clyne - £2.5m

Fox - £1.5m

Mayuka - £2.8m

JRod - £7m

Sharpe - £2m

Morgan - £1.25m

 

I know that that isn't most of,

[lickierambert]

Mmmm..but how was he on his other 46 appearances?

 

Pretty average. I was just highlighting his best bits

[david in sweden]

Gazza - £2.5m

Clyne - £2.5m

Fox - £1.5m

Mayuka - £2.8m

JRod - £7m

Sharpe - £2m

Morgan - £1.25m

 

I know that that isn't most of,

 

Oops ! I missed a preposition ...should have been "saw us through to the first season back up... "

 

I was thinking of the squad in the Championship season; Butterfielld, Richardson, Hooiveldt, Cork, Chaplow, Harding, Puncheon, Hammond, Guly, Connolly, Fonte, Lambert

 

I haven't made any calculations, but I wonder if that lot together cost as much as either Gaston or Osvaldo did? Certainly they all DAJFU at some point in that season.