Gaston.... .the cost of being a Saint...

[david in sweden]

The Echo has run an article on " the actual cost " of having Gaston Ramirez on the books .....since 2012.

 

Aside from the £12 million fee....it seems that the cost of that plus his salary (estimated at £60K / week) is around....wait for it... £21 million.

 

This has been a discussion point with a number of us on here for some time, and we didn't need a calculator to figure out the final cost of this fiasco.

Hopefully, we may be able to move him on in the January window......if not, it's another 60K /week until June. .....that's only about £1.5 million...btw.

 

At least .after he does leave we may be able to breathe a sigh of relief .....if only until someone does the same calculation on the Dani Osvaldo deal.

 

Both of these catastrophes came during Nicola Cortese's watch, so whatever good we claim he did....these two deals go on the minus side of the accounts.

 

When we ask ourselves if a future signing may be worth the fee, we also need to take account of the longer term cost of employing misfits like these two.

Edited 7 January, 2016 by david in sweden

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Pretty sure everyone at the club is acutely aware that the player needs to be paid after he is purchased. Overall cost of deals are always factored into every signing whether they are a free transfer or under contract and require a transfer fee. Everyone is getting excited because they've seen the total cost of Ramirez to Saints over 4 years but the Osvaldo figures are far worse.

[angelman]

Oh well. Some you win, some you lose

[sandwichsaint]

If only we'd kept the receipt eh?

[Hamwic]

The difference between these two as I see it is that Osvaldo was a problem waiting to happen,(which Cortese must have known), and he didn't disappoint whereas Ramirez is a bit different; I don't think anyone knew he would tun out to be such a misfit. Bad signings will always happen with or without black boxes but the club could saved themselves the grief on at least one of them.

[david in sweden]

Pretty sure everyone at the club is acutely aware that the player needs to be paid after he is purchased.

 

Overall cost of deals are always factored into every signing whether they are a free transfer or under contract and require a transfer fee.

 

Everyone is getting excited because they've seen the total cost of Ramirez to Saints over 4 years but the Osvaldo figures are far worse.

 

 

1) ....even I wasn't suggesting they played for nothing, but when actual salaries are clouded in mystery, it can come as a nasty surprise when you read the bottom line.

 

2)....my underlying point on this was not my surprise, but wondering about the eventual loss that will be entailed in the even more catastrophic Osvaldo deal.

With Pochettino already having left the club he will, naturally enough, avoid the fall-out from what would seem to have been his monumental error of judgement.

 

I can't believe that Dani Osvaldo was topping any list that may have existed on the Black Box at the time.

[Greenridge]

Thanks for the breaking 'news'.

 

Not as good as the Winston Bogarde story though....but close.

[jamesfp1]

That Villa game though

[Jonnyboy]

Makes Delgado look like a snip.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Two points

1) Is the chairman solely to blame for transfers I believe in Corteses time saints did them by committee involving Chirman manager and scouts so are we sure he was fully responsible? From the outside it looked like Gaston was certainly pushed by Cortese but Osvaldo was certainly Pochs recommendation

2) If Gaston and Osvaldo go on Corteses minus side then the pluses of the likes of Lambert Fonte Rodriquez Davies Clyne and many other players who played key parts in the fantastic rise we had from obscurity as well as bringing in a string of good managers like Pardew Adkins and Poch surely means the pluses far outweigh the minuses we should look at the likes of Leeds Nottingham and Birmingham all big clubs who would love to emulate the success we had in getting back and establishing ourselves in the premier so quickly even if it took a few minuses along the way.

[John B]

Two points

1) Is the chairman solely to blame for transfers I believe in Corteses time saints did them by committee involving Chirman manager and scouts so are we sure he was fully responsible? From the outside it looked like Gaston was certainly pushed by Cortese but Osvaldo was certainly Pochs recommendation

2) If Gaston and Osvaldo go on Corteses minus side then the pluses of the likes of Lambert Fonte Rodriquez Davies Clyne and many other players who played key parts in the fantastic rise we had from obscurity as well as bringing in a string of good managers like Pardew Adkins and Poch surely means the pluses far outweigh the minuses we should look at the likes of Leeds Nottingham and Birmingham all big clubs who would love to emulate the success we had in getting back and establishing ourselves in the premier so quickly even if it took a few minuses along the way.

 

It just shows having a numpty in charge with no real experience of running a business causes problems just like Osborne with the economy which is about to tank because of personal debt

[DT]

Rupert out!

[Dig Dig]

It's pretty funny how it become forum FACT that Cortese signed Ramirez. Wonder how he would have identified him and scouted him before checking the cash at the deal? It's up there with the Guly 10 min playing clause.

[davefizzy14]

I'm one hoping that Gaston gets a chance this weekend (hopefully in the no.10 position) and that this story is then put to bed! I still think he has a massive part to play for us.

[david in sweden]

Two points

1) Is the chairman solely to blame for transfers I believe in Corteses time saints did them by committee involving Chirman manager and scouts so are we sure he was fully responsible? From the outside it looked like Gaston was certainly pushed by Cortese but Osvaldo was certainly Pochs recommendation

 

2) If Gaston and Osvaldo go on Corteses minus side then the pluses of the likes of Lambert Fonte Rodriquez Davies Clyne and many other players who played key parts in the fantastic rise we had from obscurity as well as bringing in a string of good managers like Pardew Adkins and Poch surely means the pluses far outweigh the minuses we should look at the likes of Leeds Nottingham and Birmingham all big clubs who would love to emulate the success we had in getting back and establishing ourselves in the premier so quickly even if it took a few minuses along the way.

 

 

1) .....no-one ever suggested that Cortese knew anything about football in the first place, although it was a wise decision by Marcus Liebherr to put someone in charge who understood finance and organisation, but from various reports, interviews etc, one gets the impression that working for him was either " my way, or the highway " and it's difficult to know whether or not his successive buys / loans from Italy had more influence on signings than the " Committee " who presumably knew more about the English game. Ultimately, for better or worse....he carries the can and OK's deals because he signed the cheques.

I think Cortese was pandering to Pochettino (in allowing him to buy Osvaldo), who over-estimated his own capacity to control Osvaldo who really was " a loose cannon ".

 

2) Starting from square one, Alan Pardew was inspired signing,(as were his signings) ..Fonte, Puncheon and Lambert in particular., but a Sky interview with Pardew (after he was sacked) was revealing when he said that Cortese has asked him..." do you really want to spend £1 million on a 27 year old striker " (Lambert).

In the end, Cortese (for whatever reason) lost patience with Pardew and sacked him. No reason has ever been admitted but perhaps it's covered by the 50 year rule?

Pardew has since proven his capacity to do well as a manager in the Prem.

 

The main arguement that most of us have on this subject is the lack of the return for the huge sums of money involved in the two signings, but it's interesting to note that all the players you mentioned above together cost about the same.... as just one of the " rejects " that we are discussing.

 

If..Lambert, Fonte, Rodriguez, Davis or Clyne had been a waste of money -we'd have put it down to bad luck. Both the Gaston and Osvaldo deals showed bad judgement.

Edited 7 January, 2016 by david in sweden

[david in sweden]

It's pretty funny how it become forum FACT that Cortese signed Ramirez.

 

Wonder how he would have identified him and scouted him before checking the cash at the deal? It's up there with the Guly 10 min playing clause.

 

....doesn't it strike you as a bit strange....

....that many signings under Cortese's time came from HIS contacts in Italy, and this from a man who confessed he knew nothing about running a football club?

 

.

[david in sweden]

I'm one hoping that Gaston gets a chance this weekend (hopefully in the no.10 position) and that this story is then put to bed!

I still think he has a massive part to play for us.

 

at this stage of the proceedings - even if he scores a hat-trick on Saturday - I will still ask myself WHY .... he was ignored by three successive Saints managers?

[Greenridge]

....that many signings under Cortese's time came from HIS contacts in Italy

.

 

other than Osvaldo and Gaston I'm trying to think of the 'many' others?

[Dig Dig]

other than Osvaldo and Gaston I'm trying to think of the 'many' others?

 

I think Guly was the other one. Osvaldo was surely more of a link through MP in Spain rather than through Cortese's "contacts" in Italy.

[CB Fry]

It's pretty funny how it become forum FACT that Cortese signed Ramirez. Wonder how he would have identified him and scouted him before checking the cash at the deal? It's up there with the Guly 10 min playing clause.

To be fair Adkins came across as rather clueless about the signing when he was asked about it - I know that time was peak "we do our business in private" nonsense but Nige's comments during the Gaston saga were a cut above the usual Adkins straight bat.

 

Doesn't mean it was exclusively a Nicola signing but definitely more of a "club" signing than a manager signing (like, say, Billy Sharp). That said, let's just say it was definitely a Cortese signing and that he was a shortar sed Italian bellend.

[david in sweden]

other than Osvaldo and Gaston I'm trying to think of the 'many' others?

 

you mean like ......Papa Waigo signed from Fiorentina ?

 

...............or .......Guly do Prado who previously had played for Cesena?....... neither of whom really made it as a top striker.....did they?

 

...thank goodness that Alan Pardew finally persuaded Cortese to part with that £1 million to sign Rickie Lambert......

Edited 7 January, 2016 by david in sweden

[Dig Dig]

To be fair Adkins came across as rather clueless about the signing when he was asked about it - I know that time was peak "we do our business in private" nonsense but Nige's comments during the Gaston saga were a cut above the usual Adkins straight bat.

 

Doesn't mean it was exclusively a Nicola signing but definitely more of a "club" signing than a manager signing (like, say, Billy Sharp). That said, let's just say it was definitely a Cortese signing and that he was a shortar sed Italian bellend.

 

Ok, happy to go along with that as long as it we can say that Pardew was definitely sacked by the Itai dwarf for not starting Guly against Bristol Rover, right after he got off Fonte's Mrs.

[captainchris]

It just shows having a numpty in charge with no real experience of running a business causes problems just like Osborne with the economy which is about to tank because of personal debt

 

You are joking - right !!!

[captainchris]

....doesn't it strike you as a bit strange....

....that many signings under Cortese's time came from HIS contacts in Italy, and this from a man who confessed he knew nothing about running a football club?

 

.

Another one who thinks football is rocket science..... It actually isn't ...

[Lord Duckhunter]

And would we have stayed up without him that first season? I'm not convinced.

 

**** me , is this the Gastonettes new line ? That somehow he kept us up . He did not make a blind but of difference , did not keep us up and has done absolutely nothing since . A monumental waste of money , one of the worst signings in my 45 years of watching the club .

[Maggie May]

I'm one hoping that Gaston gets a chance this weekend (hopefully in the no.10 position) and that this story is then put to bed! I still think he has a massive part to play for us.

 

2012 just called, it wants this post back.

[david in sweden]

AND going back to my post #22 ..let's not forget our former Italian / Swiss chairman...also made a real killing in signing ..none other than Emanuel Mayuka from the Swiss club Young Boys. (that was supposedly a £3 million deal).... and a 5 year contract.

What a great tip that was Nicola. I wonder what the pay-off we made on that one was when he left?

 

Someone can do the maths on the £cost per game, as Mayuka appeared in only 16 games (most as sub.) and even at £20K /week he would have cost us another £5 mill.

if he was paid anywhere near £30K /week ......that would be almost £8 million more that deal cost us.

 

....and so Mayuka became yet another player who failed to convince three Saints managers.... that he was worth a regular place in the Saints starting line-up.

 

Meantime ...aside from those " big money signings"; like Lambert and Fonte (£1 million each), most of the team that won the Championship was composed of talent found in the English leagues...... for an average of around £250K per player.

 

Daft I call it !

Edited 8 January, 2016 by david in sweden

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

If fans want the club to only sign players who are guaranteed to provide good value for money ... well then I'm with you brothers!

 

How exactly we go about ensuring that outcome when just about every PL club I can think of does sign the odd duffer every now and again may not be quite as simple a matter as some seem to think it.

[alpine_saint]

I'm one hoping that Gaston gets a chance this weekend (hopefully in the no.10 position) and that this story is then put to bed! I still think he has a massive part to play for us.

 

Jesus, are there really people out there still thinking this.

 

8 grand a minute. Outstanding.

 

In my opinion, Gashton is a much bigger cluster-f*ck than Osvaldo. We got rid of Osvaldo PDQ.

[ScepticalStan]

And would we have stayed up without him that first season? I'm not convinced.

 

Don't see it matters. We've wasted money on Osvaldo and Long, utterly insane fees for really poor players. Every club does it at some point, some far far worse and more often than us. Thankfully we have a good record on making profits on sales so can afford the odd mistake.

 

Whatever anyone's thoughts on Ramirez, Clasie, Cedric, Osvaldo, I'd just like us to focus on spending the money on players the manager is actually going to play every week.

 

**** me , is this the Gastonettes new line ? That somehow he kept us up . He did not make a blind but of difference , did not keep us up.

 

Bolded is patently not true. We finished 5 points and better GD clear of Wigan in 18th. Subtract Gaston's goals, assists and the odd game-winning performance (Villa and Newcastle at home) and we'd have certainly been in greater danger.

 

Having said that, I must admit that when you only just avoid relegation, you could easily say the same about most of your players. Subtract Lambert, Fonte, Schneiderlin, Clyne, Rodriguez, Lallana or Puncheon from our 2012/2013 squad and obviously that would have jeapordised our position further and in the case of the first four, probably condemned us to relegation beyond any doubt.

 

Gaston didn't 'keep us up', but he certainly did make a positive contribution.

[Papa Shango]

Kind of annoys me how Gaston always gets lumped in with Osvaldo in these discussions. Osvaldo was a bad egg who never really wanted to be here. Ramirez is a decent lad who has genuinely tried. Not like he was some Bebe type figure plucked from obscurity either. He was regarded as a future superstar by many before he came here. Most thought he was well worth the money at the time. Obviously he hasn't fulfilled his potential, but to say he's done nothing for us is ridiculous. Trailed off slightly in the middle of his first season, but was out of this world at times. Did really well as an impact sub in 2013/14, often changing the game. Was shipped off to Hull when we had very little creative cover and replaced by players like Elia and Djuricic who weren't as good. This season he hasn't been given a chance but has done alright on the rare occasions he has played (changed the game at Liverpool). Obviously we all expected more when he signed, but I wouldn't put the blame all on Ramirez. He's been a bit unlucky with injuries and I don't think he's been given a fair shake at times either. Don't hear many people constantly complaining about us spending a bomb on Shane Long, who is good for about one good game in four. It happens.

 

BTW the Pardew/Cortese stuff is one of the rare things I'm genuinely ITK about. They would argue with each other constantly, but essentially what it boiled down to was Pardew wanted complete control over everything and Cortese (rightly imo) wanted to implement more of a director of football type structure. One story I heard was that they needed to recruit a new physio and Pardew wanted to bring in someone he knew. Cortese said he'd give him an interview, but Pardew argued that as the manager he should be able to hire him no questions asked. Cortese reminded Pardew that he didn't know anything about physiotherapy and therefore wasn't qualified to make the decision. There are a few other stories along similar lines that I know to be true. No secret affair or any of that ********. Pretty much what you'd expect.

[david in sweden]

If fans want the club to only sign players who are guaranteed to provide good value for money ... well then I'm with you brothers!

 

How exactly we go about ensuring that outcome when just about every PL club I can think of does sign the odd duffer every now and again may not be quite as simple a matter as some seem to think it.

 

and of course they do. Our main problem seems to be that " ambition " says we should be top four / six ..(whatever position you like), but those "big" clubs can spend money like there's no tomorrow.... and if they buy a dud ...now and again...it doesn't matter so much. It's no great loss to them.

 

**it happens. Tottenham squandered their profit from the Bale transfer ..and a bit more ....on seven players who for the most part were over-priced failures.

I think only two are left and Spurs recouped only about half their original outlay in offloading the rest to other clubs.

 

Our problem FFP rules etc,....means that a £12 million signing (say on a 4 year contract) can mean a £20 million commitment, and both Gaston and Osvaldo were only the tip of the iceberg. Other signings like Papa Waigo, Guly, and Mayuka all cost considerably more than those domestic players we signed to make up the numbers, and succeed in getting us back to the Prem.

 

Of course you can't predict the outcome of any new signing, and if ...example a player like Martina (cost £1 million), is not on the same scale as Gaston / Osvaldo - if he doesn't settle / make the grade. The real problem is our perception of players who ..whilst playing well in another side, in another country....are sure to be even better when they come to play in the Prem. WRONG ! Buying foreign players is a huge risk, unless they have a good record and aproven background -even as a youth player.

 

I really hope that we learn the lesson, because another couple of " Gaston's or Osvaldo's " will tie up our capital and transfer funds, whilst the most that they contribute to the team.... is an extra number in a 5-a-side kickabout at Staplewood.

[ScepticalStan]

The real problem is our perception of players who ..whilst playing well in another side, in another country....are sure to be even better when they come to play in the Prem. WRONG ! Buying foreign players is a huge risk, unless they have a good record and a proven background -even as a youth player.

 

Depends what you consider by 'proven'. Pelle and Tadic were proven in Holland, Mane in Austria and Van Dijk in Scotland, but no-one would consider those leagues to be anything above the standard of the Championship. All four (understandably I might add) had their fair share of doubters and whilst none have been world-beaters, those four signings have all worked out well enough in terms of value for money. You can arguably add Wanyama and Forster to that list as well.

 

In addition, Clyne had only played in the Championship before we signed him and Bertrand's Premiership career had largely consisted of a series of fairly unimpressive loans out here and there.

 

So that's eight first-team players that were all originally unproven, but have all been really quite successful, bought for a total value of just under £80Mn.

 

Proven quality in the Premiership is expensive. Extremely expensive. United had to pay £25Mn for what they knew would amount to one-and-a-bit season's worth of Robin Van Persie at the peak of his abilities. Everton have shelled out £28Mn for Lukaku and most would agree that he's actually proved to be a bargain. Berahino only scored 14 Premiership goals last season (including penalties) and only has three in this, yet he'll likely command £20Mn or so as he's quite clearly capable of some level of the consistency that all Premier League managers crave.

 

Maybe I'm getting too hung up on strikers, but examples can be found closer to home. Hell, look at our own Ryan Bertrand; a series of unimpressive loans, didn't look good at Villa and wasn't wanted by Chelsea. In the summer of 2014 it looked like he'd have to drop down a league until we signed him. Then, bang; after only five or six month's of proving himself as a reliable regular in a very solid Premiership team (to be honest, for the first time in his career) he set us back a fairly hefty £10Mn. That's a lot for a not-particularly-young defender who had only just come good, but come good he had - and it was clear that he was a player one could rely upon for consistency rather than flashes of brilliance here and there. That causes your value to skyrocket. Look at Lovren; £20Mn for a defender who had one (very good, in fairness, but still just one) season under his belt.

 

Football is football but with the melting pot of foreign players, managers and external influences along with the far more diverse range of tactics across Europe's major and minor leagues, its becoming harder and harder to predict whether a player will be a success or an almighty flop. That's part of the reason Shane Long cost £12 million. He's nothing special but you know exactly what he gives you; if you're a manager with Shane Long on the bench you know the precise nature of one of the weapons in your arsenal. That in itself is worth decent money these days.

 

Simple truth is that Southampton are almost never going to be in a position where we can sign seriously 100% proven quality. There will always be a large element of risk and calculated estimating going on.

 

These thread's remind me of the one's about the kind of striker we need to sign when Pelle isn't firing, Rodriguez is still injured and Shane Long can't control the ball. People describe a striker with pace, who can hold up the ball, shoot from distance with both feet and dominate in the air, yet lose track of the fact that with every descriptive sentence, they've added another £10-12 million to this fantasy striker's value.

[Saint86]

The Echo has run an article on " the actual cost " of having Gaston Ramirez on the books .....since 2012.

 

Aside from the £12 million fee....it seems that the cost of that plus his salary (estimated at £60K / week) is around....wait for it... £21 million.

 

This has been a discussion point with a number of us on here for some time, and we didn't need a calculator to figure out the final cost of this fiasco.

Hopefully, we may be able to move him on in the January window......if not, it's another 60K /week until June. .....that's only about £1.5 million...btw.

 

At least .after he does leave we may be able to breathe a sigh of relief .....if only until someone does the same calculation on the Dani Osvaldo deal.

 

Both of these catastrophes came during Nicola Cortese's watch, so whatever good we claim he did....these two deals go on the minus side of the accounts.

 

When we ask ourselves if a future signing may be worth the fee, we also need to take account of the longer term cost of employing misfits like these two.

 

The thing is, Osvaldo was on a lower wage and the club only paid £9m for him. Some of that we recovered in loan fees. We also recovered a good portion of his wages whilst he was on loan.

 

All in all, and sadly for Gaston, he expense is largely a wasted one by the club. The big mistake in all this is singing players the managers do not want. Partly the reason why Ron's first season was so successful, he had a clean slate and a nice budget to build his own team as a condition of his joining. Why this approach was then altered to include so many "committee" signings last summer should be looked at.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

**it happens. Tottenham squandered their profit from the Bale transfer ..and a bit more ....on seven players who for the most part were over-priced failures.

I think only two are left and Spurs recouped only about half their original outlay in offloading the rest to other clubs.

 

.

 

But are there Spurs supporters still banging on about how Solgado " clearly has talent" or going on about a particular game over & over again . Every club makes expensive mistakes , but I doubt their supporters are as doe eyed as the Gastonettes over these wasters .

[alpine_saint]

But are there Spurs supporters still banging on about how Solgado " clearly has talent" or going on about a particular game over & over again . Every club makes expensive mistakes , but I doubt their supporters are as doe eyed as the Gastonettes over these wasters .

 

This. Its pathetic.

[ScepticalStan]

But are there Spurs supporters still banging on about how Solgado " clearly has talent" or going on about a particular game over & over again . Every club makes expensive mistakes , but I doubt their supporters are as doe eyed as the Gastonettes over these wasters .

 

You'd be surprised. Most Spurs fans I know only completely gave up their last vestiges of hope about half way through his second season. Besides, players do come good now and again. Ozil was considered a disappointment in his first season, an outright flop in his second and now in his third has probably been the best player in the league.

 

I think the thing with Gaston though the outright double standards when compared to other players.

 

JWP has been utterly ineffective yet has played over 100 times for the club and people still demand he be 'given time'. Shane Long cost the same as Ramirez and chipped in with precisely the same number of goals in his first season as Ramirez did in his, yet his supporters seem to get angry at the suggestion that a striker ought to be able to chip in 10 goals in a season and act as if its some kind of unreachable target.

 

Ramirez has obviously been a costly failure of a signing (I personally would like to see him be given more time here and there - although I'll readily defer to the superior knowledge of MP and RK), but the obsession with him is boring. The money's been paid/budgeted for. It's done. Offload and move on. Since Ramirez we took a chance on another up-and-coming creative forward who got into double figures of goals in his first season, will have given us two very solid years of performances and will likely make us a £15Mn-30Mn profit at the end of it all. You win some you lose some.

[Dellman]

Yes, Saints are not the only club to sign misfits..that Santa Maria fellow (or whatever his name was) cost Man U £50 million and was gone within a year after warming the bench. And the Falcao move was another fiasco. Spurs had even more failures after the Bale sale. There is certain to be a % of failures. On balance I would say we come out of it pretty well, which is proved by the climb through the leagues and the value of the present squad, in Premiership mid table.

[david in sweden]

Saints are not the only club to sign misfits..that Santa Maria fellow (whatever his name was) cost Man U £50 million and was gone within a year after warming the bench.

 

And the Falcao move was another fiasco. Spurs had even more failures after the Bale sale. There is certain to be a % of failures.

 

On balance I would say we come out of it pretty well, which is proved by the climb through the leagues and the value of the present squad, in Premiership mid table.

the main difference being ...that Man U have an enormous income that can afford a few mistakes of that dimension, but at a cost of £21 million ( for Gaston) and " goodness knows how-much" for the Osvaldo pay-off......what might we have done with the extra £40 million?..... if it had been well-spent in the first place.

[SuperSAINT]

Sounds messed up if true:

 

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/middlesbrough-come-to-agreement-to-sign-southampton-forward

[bender]

Oh well. Some you win, some you lose

 

Exactly. SRL cost us £1m, we sold him for £4m and we probably paid him around £3m for his services in his time with us. His goals played a major part in getting us from L1 to the Prem and then keeping us in the Prem.

[a1ex2001]

the main difference being ...that Man U have an enormous income that can afford a few mistakes of that dimension, but at a cost of £21 million ( for Gaston) and " goodness knows how-much" for the Osvaldo pay-off......what might we have done with the extra £40 million?..... if it had been well-spent in the first place.

 

You seem to imply that it was a sure thing that the money was wasted from the minute that it was spent and that it is possible to guarantee success in the transfer market? Yes the money with hindsight was wasted but at the time everyone though that both the Ramirez and Osvaldo signings were good ones it just didn't work out similarly other signings have worked out far better and on balance we have come up smelling of roses.

[a1ex2001]

Looks like he's played his last game for the club bbc confirmed the loan to boro good luck to the lad.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35410308

[Saint IQ]

Sounds messed up if true:

 

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/middlesbrough-come-to-agreement-to-sign-southampton-forward

 

I'd take anything posted by sports witness with a pinch of salt. They rarely get stuff right. I've seen some very strange things on there like we are after Serie B fringe players etc.

[Saint IQ]

Oh well. Some you win, some you lose

 

This and more often than not we win compared to clubs like Newcastle, just had to be our 2 most expensive ones we lost. Along with Forren and Mayuka but our record is better than most

[Saint IQ]

Record signings are a curse for us since I've been following saints, remember Agustin Delgado with rumours the following season or 2 we could of signed Drogba for less

[a1ex2001]

Record signings are a curse for us since I've been following saints, remember Agustin Delgado with rumors the following season or 2 we could of signed Drogba for less

 

David Hirst? Rory Delap?

 

Saints record signing is invariably crap.

[david in sweden]

You seem to imply that it was a sure thing that the money was wasted from the minute that it was spent and that it is possible to guarantee success in the transfer market? Yes the money with hindsight was wasted but at the time everyone thought that both the Ramirez and Osvaldo signings were good ones .....it just didn't work out similarly other signings have worked out far better and on balance we have come up smelling of roses.

 

 

well not everyone..and those of us who've been around for a few more decades don't count chickens, or quickly jump to conclusions about new players, either.

Everyone needs time to settle, and neither of these two did. If Charlie Austin scores one more goal this season, his deal is still a no-brainer because of his experience.

 

tbh..I thought the Gaston investment (a club record, at the time)..... was pretty steep for a young player who only looked good in an otherwise poor Italian team. The fact that three successive managers have blatantly ignored him must go someway to highlighting the poor judgement of those responsible for the signing.

 

Nicola Cortese had his hand on the cheque book, and presumably took advice from his own contacts in Italy....as in the case with; Papa Waigo, Guly, and Mayuka.

Either Cortese's judgement was flawed, or there was a sinister background as to the reason behind these signings made from the same source(s).

 

Likewise...only after he'd signed ....did we hear about Osvaldo's atrocious disciplinary record, something that didn't improve with his part in the touchline fracas at Newcastle, and then the infamous "Fonte Incident ", which was the last straw - even for Cortese who signed him.

 

If you compare the other signings we made around the same time (and after)....few of them cost more than £1 million..some less and proved to be genuine successes.

.......whilst the £25 million spent on these two misfits (without considering the cost of salaries) might have crippled our finances had circumstances been different.

 

Interestingly, an interview with Mauricio Pochettino (published last week), highlighted his "so-called" success with young players, but where he admitted he'd made a huge mistake in thinking that he could rehabilitate Osvaldo.

[once_bitterne]

Oh well. Some you win, some you lose

 

£21m? Liverpool, Spurs and many other PL clubs have lost that in a morning. The fact that some keep harping on about Osvaldo, Ramirez, Mayuka and Forren shows just how good our transfer policy has been.

[sadoldgit]

well not everyone..and those of us who've been around for a few more decades don't count chickens, or quickly jump to conclusions about new players, either.

Everyone needs time to settle, and neither of these two did. If Charlie Austin scores one more goal this season, his deal is still a no-brainer because of his experience.

 

tbh..I thought the Gaston investment (a club record, at the time)..... was pretty steep for a young player who only looked good in an otherwise poor Italian team. The fact that three successive managers have blatantly ignored him must go someway to highlighting the poor judgement of those responsible for the signing.

 

Nicola Cortese had his hand on the cheque book, and presumably took advice from his own contacts in Italy....as in the case with; Papa Waigo, Guly, and Mayuka.

Either Cortese's judgement was flawed, or there was a sinister background as to the reason behind these signings made from the same source(s).

 

Likewise...only after he'd signed ....did we hear about Osvaldo's atrocious disciplinary record, something that didn't improve with his part in the touchline fracas at Newcastle, and then the infamous "Fonte Incident ", which was the last straw - even for Cortese who signed him.

 

If you compare the other signings we made around the same time (and after)....few of them cost more than £1 million..some less and proved to be genuine successes.

.......whilst the £25 million spent on these two misfits (without considering the cost of salaries) might have crippled our finances had circumstances been different.

 

Interestingly, an interview with Mauricio Pochettino (published last week), highlighted his "so-called" success with young players, but where he admitted he'd made a huge mistake in thinking that he could rehabilitate Osvaldo.

 

David, I do recall reading somewhere before he signed that Osvaldo was a bit of a handful to manage but Poch thought he could tame him! As for Ramirez, I think he is a decent player but just not suited to the Premiership.