Koeman to walk?

[scotty]

More likely to be escorted out.

 

..errm... f*cking hell.

 

I'm more concerned about this coming from guan than anything else on this thread.

[trousers]

More likely to be escorted out.

[video=youtube;WyM-hNRieVU]

Edited 4 January, 2016 by trousers

[whelk]

20/1 to be next PL manager to leave. With ITK like that......

[Batman]

Of course the club should be considering his future.

 

You can't keep losing nearly every game and expect to stay in the job or have your own future seriously questioned!!

 

As said in another thread, koeman's performance has been terrible this season. But you have posters jumping down your throat for saying that here.

 

Now a genuine ITK is suggesting it (him leaving) may happen

Edited 4 January, 2016 by Batman

[sandwichsaint]

My point is that maybe we could identify players of potential and then Koeman could coach them , devolop them & generally make them better . I see no sign that Koeman is making any of our players better and plenty of evidence that Poch does . It's very easy to blame the board , when does the manager take his share .

 

Nailed it, most realistic people accept that we have to live within our means, we have to be sustainable, we have to invest in the academy and produce our own players. We are a mid-size, mid-table sort of a team and we have somewhat over-achieved the last two years. What's so disappointing is how quickly we have regressed, the team seems to have little motivation, little organisation, and poor fitness levels - we still have the spine of a decent side but confidence and belief seems none-existent. Wanyama and Mane situation doesn't help but RK needs to get a grip on the rest of the team and start actually coaching them into a pattern of play. I'm astonished at the way VVD is allowed to play, absolutely no discipline and he gi

ves away a goal-scoring chance every game (Yoshida gets pelters for less).

 

Again Soares struggling, he can't be that bad, I've see nhim play well, plenty on here rated him better than Clyne after his first few appearances (he's clearly nothing like that level) but why hasn't RK improved his basic positional play after half a season?

 

Why do we have so many players that can't play a full 90 minutes regularly? Clasie, Soares, Jjuanmi (supposedly), Tadic, Pelle (on the pitch for 90 but rarely contributes the 60-70 mark), bunch of lightweights!

[John B]

Although I really like Ron I am not sure that he is that good a manager we never seem to score goals in the last 15 mins to alter the result of games Pardew and Pochettino seem to be better

 

Our results over the last year have not been that outstanding following our great start to 2014.

[GarrettIvo]

Although I really like Ron I am not sure that he is that good a manager we never seem to score goals in the last 15 mins to alter the result of games Pardew and Pochettino seem to be better

 

Our results over the last year have not been that outstanding following our great start to 2014.

 

Newcastle, Liverpool, Villa.

 

I don't remember ANY game in which we scored a late equaliser under Pochettino, although I'll happily be proven wrong.

When we were behind then we just tried to keep walking balls into nets, with little effect.

[MarkSFC]

Although I really like Ron I am not sure that he is that good a manager we never seem to score goals in the last 15 mins to alter the result of games Pardew and Pochettino seem to be better

 

Our results over the last year have not been that outstanding following our great start to 2014.

 

Calander year 11th

 

http://http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-top-chelsea-eighth-and-watford-survive-the-2015-premier-league-table-by-calendar-year-a3146491.html

[stknowle]

Although I really like Ron I am not sure that he is that good a manager we never seem to score goals in the last 15 mins to alter the result of games Pardew and Pochettino seem to be better

 

Our results over the last year have not been that outstanding following our great start to 2014.

 

Sadly this is the conclusion I am coming to. Pressure's right on now to prove it's not the case but some of his substitutions and the timing of them leave you questioning if he's really up to it.

[Big Ron fan]

You should remember that we had a great January last year. From 1 Feb (when we lost to Swansea) I think we have 42 points from 36 games. Not quite relegation form but pretty close. That includes 16 games where we still had (subject to injuries) Toby, Morgan and Clyne playing for us.

 

As an aside, I like the way Watford are ahead of Villa in the calendar year table, despite playing half the games!

[Dr. Kucho]

I am undecided over Koeman. Saw him do some great things at Feyenoord, but fail miserably at PSV, Ajax to a certain extend and Valencia. Last season was great with some very good games and results, especially

after losing so many first team players.

Deciding between Pochettino and Koeman I would probably choose Pochettino. Koeman seems like a very nice guy, however under Pochettino I prefered the style of play, the fact he brought in many academy players and it seemed the squad was more together. The club would often post pictures of training with the team having a laugh and playing ball games, something I dont see that often anymore.

 

Also a little dissapointed with the players we brought in, think that some are down to Reed, but players like Martina, Pelle, Clasie, Stekelenburg where most likely down to Koeman.

 

I sincerly hope Koeman can turn the tide and some youngsters can be brought forward (only if seem good enough) and get the chance to proof themselves.

[sadoldgit]

Of course the club should be considering his future.

 

You can't keep losing nearly every game and expect to stay in the job or have your own future seriously questioned!!

 

As said in another thread, koeman's performance has been terrible this season. But you have posters jumping down your throat for saying that here.

 

Now a genuine ITK is suggesting it (him leaving) may happen

 

Well if he does go and takes Pelle with him you will be a happy bunny. By the way, we are 13th in the Premiership currently and only a few points away from your favourites Everton. Should they be looking to get rid of their manager too?

[Batman]

Well if he does go and takes Pelle with him you will be a happy bunny. By the way, we are 13th in the Premiership currently and only a few points away from your favourites Everton. Should they be looking to get rid of their manager too?

 

it was Guan who confirmed it mate.

 

I am starting to think Ron is not that great a manager.

read on another site that he is the best manager we have had for decades.....just way OTT

 

I want to see more of what we were about last season. Just not happening really

he has a very mixed bag in his career.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

This hasn't come out of the club to me but I know someone who works in football where I live (Manchester) and he hears bits and bobs over the course of his job. Dismiss it as nonsense if you like but he told me that he's heard the players like Koeman but the senior players want him to get more of a grip on the squad and establish more discipline as certain players aren't behaving appropriately and Koeman appears to let them get away with it. It's also creating cliques in the group which isn't doing team spirit any good.

 

No individuals named but I would imagine we can all probably guess.

[GGalpin]

Newcastle, Liverpool, Villa.

 

I don't remember ANY game in which we scored a late equaliser under Pochettino, although I'll happily be proven wrong.

When we were behind then we just tried to keep walking balls into nets, with little effect.

 

Man Utd away?

[DT]

My suspicion is that he is rankled by manoeuvrings from Victor Wanyama and Mane, who are both agitating for a move and he feels powerless to prevent this, especially when they resort to being late or getting sent off to get their way. Also, the dawning realisation that the premier is tough. PS we have always beaten the good teams and lost to the rubbish ones as long as I can remember. Maybe Mourinho is being lined up? (Joke)

[GarrettIvo]

Man Utd away?

 

Yes that was one. Duly noted.

[sadoldgit]

it was Guan who confirmed it mate.

 

I am starting to think Ron is not that great a manager.

read on another site that he is the best manager we have had for decades.....just way OTT

 

I want to see more of what we were about last season. Just not happening really

he has a very mixed bag in his career.

 

You seem to be fixated with managers and what they can do. Koeman proved last year that he can manage in the Premiership. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that it was going to be harder for us this season. We are not a terrible team and with a but more luck could have come away from the last 3 games with 9 points. We are certainly a lot better than Villa Newcastle and Sunderland. What would their fans give to be 13th at the moment? Is it Koeman's fault that Mane behaves like a ***t? Is it down to Koeman that Wanyama makes that stupid lunge? At some point you have to start pointing the finger at players rather than the manager who can only do so much. You say you would bring in Howe, if Bournemouth hadn't have had a decent run recently you realise that his name would be in the frame for the sack? Koeman is clearly a decent manager whether you like him or not. He needs to be supported not hounded out of his job. 13th in the Premiership is not the worse place to be but the way you go on you would think we were bottom. And what did Guan confirm? That he would be escorted out rather than quit? What does that tell us? That he has no plans to leave? That he is about to be sacked? Another of Guan's riddles.

Edited 4 January, 2016 by sadoldgit

[shurlock]

Yes that was one. Duly noted.

 

WBA away?

[GarrettIvo]

WBA away?

 

Indeed. In my defence I try to scrub any game involving WBA from my memory ASAP. Also I was in the middle of flying from Perth to Europe when that match took place.

[sadoldgit]

This hasn't come out of the club to me but I know someone who works in football where I live (Manchester) and he hears bits and bobs over the course of his job. Dismiss it as nonsense if you like but he told me that he's heard the players like Koeman but the senior players want him to get more of a grip on the squad and establish more discipline as certain players aren't behaving appropriately and Koeman appears to let them get away with it. It's also creating cliques in the group which isn't doing team spirit any good.

 

No individuals named but I would imagine we can all probably guess.

 

Given that a small group of senior pros apparently met up for a pint after the Norwich match perhaps there is something in this? of course it could all be 2+2 = 5 but something is clearly not clicking at the moment. What would you do if you were Ron though? Both players would have been key to his plans at the start of the season and at their best are streets ahead of their team mates in their respective positions. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Ron did say that he picked up Mane about his lack of effort in training the other day. Perhaps he has had words with Wanyama too? Perhaps not. Koeman has dropped Mane before for ill discipline so I don't think he is a soft touch. You have to wonder too why Ralph was wheeled out for a motivational speech the other day. Was it because the run of poor recent results or was it part of a plan to rebuild team spirit? Now we also have Guan's post to mull over too. Never a dull moment being a Saints fan

[Verbal Kint]

Koeman has dropped Mane before for ill discipline so I don't think he is a soft touch(

 

Not so sure about that. Dropping Mane will have no effect on him whatsoever but hitting his pocket will. Yet if reports are to be believed we have decided not to fine him, so instead all we have done is punish the team and not the individual

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Given that a small group of senior pros apparently met up for a pint after the Norwich match perhaps there is something in this? of course it could all be 2+2 = 5 but something is clearly not clicking at the moment. What would you do if you were Ron though? Both players would have been key to his plans at the start of the season and at their best are streets ahead of their team mates in their respective positions. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Ron did say that he picked up Mane about his lack of effort in training the other day. Perhaps he has had words with Wanyama too? Perhaps not. Koeman has dropped Mane before for ill discipline so I don't think he is a soft touch. You have to wonder too why Ralph was wheeled out for a motivational speech the other day. Was it because the run of poor recent results or was it part of a plan to rebuild team spirit? Now we also have Guan's post to mull over too. Never a dull moment being a Saints fan

 

Koeman treats them all as mature people and doesn't treat them like kids. By and large the players respond well to this and also his coaching from what I can tell. Unfortunately some misguided individuals take advantage of this and it's causing issues with those who act properly within the group. They want to see the club (if not Koeman himself) drive out this behaviour in the first place as it isn't helping matters at all. Think we all recognise we're a momentum team that relies on spirit and collectiveness but you've got players acting inappropriately who aren't receiving due punishment which in turn is hacking off senior professionals seeking to set an example and do things the right way. Then cliques start forming and it's a bit downhill from there. Maybe winning games means these things don't matter as much but when you aren't winning these things come to the forefront a little more.

 

I do feel sorry for Koeman a little in this scenario as certain players have been told and yet continue to act in their best interests in order to get what they want. Unfortunately these individuals are too important to the team so with no alternative the whole team / club suffers if a zero tolerance policy is adopted. However I think it has now got to a point where something has got to change one way or another (and I don't mean Koeman leaving, I mean either things are tightened up and they fall in line or they leave). But Koeman must instigate it as he is the leader of the players. My gut feeling is that things will tighten up but there will be some casualties.

[VectisSaint]

Is it Koeman's fault that Mane behaves like a ***t? Is it down to Koeman that Wanyama makes that stupid lunge?

Well, as you ask, yes it is, at least to a large extent. That's why he is the manager of the team. He could easily have avoided the Wanyama issue by taking him off when he got the yellow, which would be a fairly usual thing to do if you see that your player is being rather reckless. Koeman also didn't have to take the action he did against Mane, he could have used his judgement and dealt with it in a different way without affecting the match.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Laudrap had a great first season at Swansea , even winning a cup . The second season lack of disipline and general drift meant he ended up getting the sack .

 

Look at the fall out between LVG & Ron . LVG was Dof & Ron manager , LVG wrote in his book about Ron being too soft with players and he tried to step in . I'm not saying this is right , but from the general drift of this season , who is to say there's no truth in it .

 

I don't want Ron out , but that could change if we continue like this . Personally I think we'll get a few one off Arsenal type performances to stay safe . However, end of season will be a crossroads . I'm not so sure he's the man for next season , particularly if he doesn't sign an extension

[redkeith]

Vic's yellow was in the first half, so that would have been a tad early for a substitution. Maybe he could have been subbed after his argument with Clatenburg, but that wasn't when he received the first yellow card.

 

As to the Mane situation, although it did have a serious impact on the team, rules are rules and if they are seen not to apply to one member of the team, the others aren't going to be too happy about it.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

If I had one moan about Koeman it would be over his reluctance to give the youngsters a go. Watching Spurs v Everton yesterday at the end with the game delicately poised and both sides pushing for the winner our ex-manager threw on a kid with no experience. Rash? Brave? I don't know but Martin Tyler thought it worthy of praise and at least all the Spurs U21 squad know under MP they will get their chances.

[angelman]

If I had one moan about Koeman it would be over his reluctance to give the youngsters a go. Watching Spurs v Everton yesterday at the end with the game delicately poised and both sides pushing for the winner our ex-manager threw on a kid with no experience. Rash? Brave? I don't know but Martin Tyler thought it worthy of praise and at least all the Spurs U21 squad know under MP they will get their chances.

 

Agree.

 

Question is....do Spurs have better U21 than us?

[Lord Duckhunter]

If I had one moan about Koeman it would be over his reluctance to give the youngsters a go. Watching Spurs v Everton yesterday at the end with the game delicately poised and both sides pushing for the winner our ex-manager threw on a kid with no experience. Rash? Brave? I don't know but Martin Tyler thought it worthy of praise and at least all the Spurs U21 squad know under MP they will get their chances.

 

Almost as depressing as Sat was watching that yesterday . The way Alli & Carroll played , had they signed for us they wouldn't have progressed like that. The way he's made Walker a better player , but the icing on the cake was when we were told that Toby had played every minute this season. Coincidence, maybe or maybe he's fitter . I agree about the sub , was there any way Ron would have put Seager on Sat , no he turned to Gaston who appears to be shipping out.

[angelman]

Am afraid to say, without the Saints rose tinted glasses on, but I think MP is a better manager. Having said that, I am more than happy with RK as there seems to be a friendlier and more open feel about the club, given that the manager is the mouthpiece of the club.

[Pengi]

Agree.

 

Question is....do Spurs have better U21 than us?

Seem to remember Poch saying that Spurs had better academy players than Saints soon after he joined Spurs.

[Smirking_Saint]

Am afraid to say, without the Saints rose tinted glasses on, but I think MP is a better manager. Having said that, I am more than happy with RK as there seems to be a friendlier and more open feel about the club, given that the manager is the mouthpiece of the club.

 

He always has been, I still maintain he is the best coach I have seen at St Marys in my time as a Saints supporter, he wont be at Spurs long either, think he'll land a big job within 2 seasons.

[sadoldgit]

Well, as you ask, yes it is, at least to a large extent. That's why he is the manager of the team. He could easily have avoided the Wanyama issue by taking him off when he got the yellow, which would be a fairly usual thing to do if you see that your player is being rather reckless. Koeman also didn't have to take the action he did against Mane, he could have used his judgement and dealt with it in a different way without affecting the match.

 

Yes he could have dealt with both situations differently. It doesn't excuse the behaviour of the players.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Agree.

 

Question is....do Spurs have better U21 than us?

 

Is Townsend a better play now than the nipper they brought on ? Of course he is , but what was better for the development of the club?

 

I've no doubt Ron picks the best players. Reed isn't getting a look in because others are better . A straight pick between OR & Reed is a no brainer ability wise . But what if Ron trusted Reed , played him instead , coached and devoloped him around the first team. Maybe in 2 years time he'll be a better player than OR. It'll also encourage other nippers & other parents when choosing an academy for their kid.

 

The question for me is whether it's the clubs job to provide players that are good enough for the first team and are then judged purerly on ability against the established pros or whether it is Rons job to take players that are not good enough yet and make them good enough. Surely one of our younger centre halves could have done as well as Caulker or Yoshida this season . Yes they'll make mistakes ( that they'll learn from ) but **** me Caulker & Maya made them anyway. I hate the new trendy word of " project" but that's what it is . We need a manager that buys into it. A manager that will play a nipper who is not as good as a senior pro , but could develop. I go back to my earlier point . Had we signed Alli , he'd have an appearance pattern similar to JWP this season, not heading to the euros .

[sadoldgit]

He always has been, I still maintain he is the best coach I have seen at St Marys in my time as a Saints supporter, he wont be at Spurs long either, think he'll land a big job within 2 seasons.

 

At some point he will have to win a major competition if he is to live up to his "potential."

[Verbal Kint]

Absolutely no way to know without playing them. Under a different manager Spurs either wouldn't have signed, still have, or know if Dier, Alli or Carroll were good enough, maybe not even Kane.

 

Some won't be good enough no, but the experience Reed, Hesketh etc got previously was really beneficial. Any game time for them helps their development, so even if results aren't great, there's some positive. I'd far prefer that situation to now, where it's hard to take positives from the results at all.

 

When we said we'd use the younger players to boost the squad for Europa League I thought we were serious about it and was pleased. It's the way it has to be done, spend the money if you can improve the first team of course, be ambitious about that, but competition has to come from within, not spending fees and wages on the Martina, Caulker, Juanmi, Romeu, even Clasie who looks alright but his fitness record makes it redundant most the time.

 

I don't take much notice of youth results, it's about individual performance. Players will go backwards if they aren't seeing the chance to step up. We're now seeing good young players loaned out, even on the bench elsewhere. Why? Saints had a chance to be different to other clubs, to build a brand of playing good football and giving youth players a chance. In the last 18 months we've lost that a bit, and just seem like another mid table club full of average foreign players now.

 

I enjoy the game a lot more seeing young players get a chance, they've come through the club and understand it more, understand the fans and the league. Yes, some will still see it as a stepping stone, but not as many as you'd get from abroad. There's a reason Barcelona focus on youth despite having the money to sign anyone. You need a core of players that understand the club and have some feeling for it. We didn't just lose a brilliant midfielder in Schneiderlin, we lost someone who'd been here many years, since he was a kid basically. Even longer with Lallana, quite a while with Lambert. That's more to replace than just footballing talent.

 

If Koeman is just here another season, or just this season, then what incentive to play the youngsters? Are the club annoyed he isn't? Throughout the club we've banged on about how important it is, and now we're not doing it. That can't have gone unnoticed. Managers need to be brave when results are going well, not go defensive and ignore youth even more. Let's be honest, how much worse could they do?

 

I just have a horrible feeling we're about to sign more squad players, not improve the first team and push the youth prospects further down the pecking order while wasting money.

 

That's exactly what will happen if RK is the manager. Thankfully I think it won't have gone unnoticed by Les Reed and he's going to need to be brave and make the right decision to sack him/let him move on in the summer, even if it's deemed unpopular. I'd be very surprised if he's the manager next season and it will be just as much about his reluctance to give young players a chance as it will be about results.

 

Reed and Seager should have been given more opportunities at a minimum and when we pay 1 million quid loan fees and 40k+ a week wages for a 4th choice centre back then you know something has gone very wrong. I've never been one to say we should finish top 6 and compete at the top end of the table, I just expect us to be the best and most efficient we can be and see where that takes us. If it's 6th great, if it's 12th then so be it.

 

When we waste the sort of money we have since returning to the PL then I don't think anyone can say we can't do better

[sadoldgit]

Almost as depressing as Sat was watching that yesterday . The way Alli & Carroll played , had they signed for us they wouldn't have progressed like that. The way he's made Walker a better player , but the icing on the cake was when we were told that Toby had played every minute this season. Coincidence, maybe or maybe he's fitter . I agree about the sub , was there any way Ron would have put Seager on Sat , no he turned to Gaston who appears to be shipping out.

 

You would like to think he put on Ramirez because he thought he would make more of a difference. What he was expected to do from the 87th minute though is anyones guess.

[Sour Mash]

He always has been, I still maintain he is the best coach I have seen at St Marys in my time as a Saints supporter, he wont be at Spurs long either, think he'll land a big job within 2 seasons.

Yet Koeman achieved more than him.

[Sour Mash]

Absolutely no way to know without playing them. .

Not making sense as usual. Of course there is a way of telling, no club puts every single youngster in their system into their first team.

[Smirking_Saint]

Yet Koeman achieved more than him.

 

Yup, its about situations and squads too, RDM has a champions league winners medal.

 

Not the I am specifically talking anti Koeman, I personally think he is a decent manager managing a team that is going through a bad spell right now, not helped out by 2 of our better players seemingly wanting out.

 

Ill still maintain the fact that personally I see Poch as the better of the two.

 

As far as Saints are concerned, I think we need to spend some money to effectively show some ambition, but we'll see. Im not going to start getting too anxious yet, there is easily 4 teams worse than us this year, and we have a bit of a history of poor December patches

[Sour Mash]

Yup, its about situations and squads too,

Agreed, Koeman had squad problems and a very difficult start making his achievements even more impressive. No Rodriguez for the whole of last season, first choice keeper out for a good chunk of time and only half a squad available on his arrival.

[shurlock]

Agreed, Koeman had squad problems and a very difficult start making his achievements even more impressive. No Rodriguez for the whole of last season, first choice keeper out for a good chunk of time and only half a squad available on his arrival.

 

Agree with some of that, though maintain Koeman had a stronger squad than MP who was forced to play the likes of Hooiveld, Fox and Gallagher on various occasions.

[Smirking_Saint]

Agreed, Koeman had squad problems and a very difficult start making his achievements even more impressive. No Rodriguez for the whole of last season, first choice keeper out for a good chunk of time and only half a squad available on his arrival.

 

Agreed its been difficult for him this year, hence why Im not personally asking for him to leave, I personally think thats very short sighted, but he needs more help from the board, just spend for his 'realistic' first choice targets.

 

As per Poch vs Koeman, we have and had two top coaches, my personal opinion is Poch is better, nobody has to agree with me on that, what would be nice is to not lose another good manager

[Saint86]

Is Townsend a better play now than the nipper they brought on ? Of course he is , but what was better for the development of the club?

 

I've no doubt Ron picks the best players. Reed isn't getting a look in because others are better . A straight pick between OR & Reed is a no brainer ability wise . But what if Ron trusted Reed , played him instead , coached and devoloped him around the first team. Maybe in 2 years time he'll be a better player than OR. It'll also encourage other nippers & other parents when choosing an academy for their kid.

 

The question for me is whether it's the clubs job to provide players that are good enough for the first team and are then judged purerly on ability against the established pros or whether it is Rons job to take players that are not good enough yet and make them good enough. Surely one of our younger centre halves could have done as well as Caulker or Yoshida this season . Yes they'll make mistakes ( that they'll learn from ) but **** me Caulker & Maya made them anyway. I hate the new trendy word of " project" but that's what it is . We need a manager that buys into it. A manager that will play a nipper who is not as good as a senior pro , but could develop. I go back to my earlier point . Had we signed Alli , he'd have an appearance pattern similar to JWP this season, not heading to the euros .

 

If you wanted a manager with unquestionable loyalty to the club, who would bring through and develop young players.... well, Cortese sacked him and his name was Adkins... He hasn't done a lot since but then he did get screwed over at reading and has a proper rebuilding "project" on his hands at Sheffield so maybe unfair to judge him on that yet.

 

Fans need to wake up and accept that the dream of having 50% of the team from the academy was all Cortese, and he was getting there. Adkins really developed players like Morgan, lallana, clyne, Lambert etc and also gave the first opportunities to JWP (chances stifled since) and managed Shaw at the start also. He was replaced by Poch who took it further but as has been said many times, Adkins last 14 games and Poch's first 14 games are almost the same with regards to points return showing that Adkins and the team had adapted and turned things around.

 

Since Adkins the club has been filled with more and more mercenaries and the loyalty within the club has diminished, starting with Nicola and Poch, then the players...

 

Are player development has ground to a halt in relative terms and Les Reed once saying that "we don't loan out youth players" looks exactly like the hypocritical BS that it was.

 

Fans need to ask themselves what they want from the club?!?!

 

At the moment, Money is being made at the expense of the paying side of things (something that will remind the fans of far worse times and we were promised would not be the case at the moment). The manager is clearly irritated at the same time. Not only that, but we were told that youth players would be used for the europa campaign but instead we have seen barley anything from the kiddos this year and instead signed filler players rather than developing our own.

 

Few of the players seem to be in it for a love of the club or the long haul, and the manager will not commit to a long term future (and I don't blame him).

 

Is that what the fans want? If so they shouldn't moan too much.

 

I'd rather have a loyal man at the helm who loves the club, develops the kids and fills the squad up with loyal passionate players by and large. Its no slight on Ronald as I think he has been royally stitched by the board and repeatedly had the rug pulled from under him, but ultimately, once he is gone and we have sold all our best players or those that have been here for a few seasons, then what legacy will the club have and what connection will the fans have to the team? Very little on current evidence.

[VectisSaint]

Yes he could have dealt with both situations differently. It doesn't excuse the behaviour of the players.

Unless their behaviour is at least in part due to the way the manager is "managing" the team of course.

[Sour Mash]

Agree with some of that, though maintain Koeman had a stronger squad than MP who was forced to play the likes of Hooiveld, Fox and Gallagher on various occasions.

He probably wouldn't have played Gallagher if he hadn't blown £16m on the waste of money Osvaldo, £16m of squad strength wasted right there.

 

Interesting to hear that MP was forced to play Gallagher and didn't do it because of his revolutionary approach to our young players we keep hearing about on here.

 

But good to know that despite all the stick the board keep getting and despite losing a £20m forward for a whole season, we were able to create a stronger squad, in the space of a couple of weeks pre-season, whilst seriously out-doing our competitors in controlling our net spend. Very impressive stuff indeed.

Edited 4 January, 2016 by Sour Mash

[stevegrant]

Are player development has ground to a halt in relative terms and Les Reed once saying that "we don't loan out youth players" looks exactly like the hypocritical BS that it was.

I wouldn't say it's hypocritical for the club's stance to change along with circumstances.

 

The fact is that our first team has (largely) got much better in terms of quality since the "no loans" quote, so the bar has been set much higher for the kids coming through, while it seems as though the quality in those youngsters has reduced in the same period.

 

As a result, while four years ago we were able to throw James Ward-Prowse and Luke Shaw into the first team (a team regularly containing Jos Hooiveld, Kelvin Davis and Guly do Prado) against the best this league has to offer without any prior first-team experience, it's simply not feasible at the moment.

[brett24]

I know it's Twitter but rumor on there saying big bust up between Koeman and the board over transfer funds and Koeman is set to walk.

[Chalkboy]

Agreed its been difficult for him this year, hence why Im not personally asking for him to leave, I personally think thats very short sighted, but he needs more help from the board, just spend for his 'realistic' first choice targets.

 

As per Poch vs Koeman, we have and had two top coaches, my personal opinion is Poch is better,

 

Must admit, my head is leaning towards this opinion too, but I hate to admit it.

 

But, and it's a big but, let's see how Poch deals with losing his best players to other clubs. (Then there's losing them to injury too.) Let's see how well he does bringing in replacements for Kane, Erikssen, Lloris, Toby, Vertonghen for instance. Then we'll see what he's made of. Ron has had to deal with a hell of a lot more than Poch.

[sadoldgit]

I know it's Twitter but rumor on there saying big bust up between Koeman and the board over transfer funds and Koeman is set to walk.

 

Well, if it happens I guess it will make a few on here happy. Personally I hope it doesn't but nothing surprises me in football. Ron will have known before he joined that this club doesn't flash the cash so I am hoping it is b*ll*cks.