whelk Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 The temptation to have a second bite of the summer 2014 cherry is so irresistible or some isn't it? We finished seventh with a record points haul last season which should draw a line under it. Done. Move on. But you can really see how much some on here hated that outcome. There are many unhinged supporters on here. Quite desperate and assume they are JCLs as could not have coped with the Saints I grew up supporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Ok which RB should we have replaced Clyne with? And which CM should we have replaced Scheiderlin with? C'mon it is very easy. All other clubs do it right. And assume you really didn't want us to sign Clasie as was too cheap for you? It's not my job to identify players. But I don't think you have to be a brain surgeon to know that if you sell a right back for £11m and replace him with one for £3m, and replace a £25m central midfielder with a £5m player and a £8m player then you are probably get players 25-33% as good. And that is what has happened. We replaced Toby properly and whilst VvD isn't as good he is clearly in the right bracket of calibre of player we needed to address the departures. Look at our better players in the summer of 2014 and see how much they cost. Bertrand - £10m. Mane - £10m. Tadic - £10m. Forster - £10m. Pretty much our sweet spot for good players who can contribute tangibly but still have some growth in them. Don't know why we stopped doing that this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 It's not my job to identify players. But I don't think you have to be a brain surgeon to know that if you sell a right back for £11m and replace him with one for £3m, and replace a £25m central midfielder with a £5m player and a £8m player then you are probably get players 25-33% as good. And that is what has happened. We replaced Toby properly and whilst VvD isn't as good he is clearly in the right bracket of calibre of player we needed to address the departures. Look at our better players in the summer of 2014 and see how much they cost. Bertrand - £10m. Mane - £10m. Tadic - £10m. Forster - £10m. Pretty much our sweet spot for good players who can contribute tangibly but still have some growth in them. Don't know why we stopped doing that this summer. we sold £28m worth of RBs and replaced them with £6m worth. it painfully shows and is hurting us quite a bit as you say VvD is not as good as Toby but is easily the best summer signing. Clasie is looking pretty decent too. Are they not the two most expensive players we signed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 There are many unhinged supporters on here. Quite desperate and assume they are JCLs as could not have coped with the Saints I grew up supporting. Why do you nearly always react so strongly to opinions you don't happen to agree with? This state of semi-permanent outrage must be a very tiring attitude to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Why do you nearly always react so strongly to opinions you don't happen to agree with? This state of semi-permanent outrage must be a very tiring attitude to maintain. Nearly always semi-permanently annoyed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Nearly always semi-permanently annoyed me. Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Yes, Stoke fans are really gutted at their Summer's transfer business! How's your list coming on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Comedy gold fellas. Comedy gold. Hysterical comedy gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Obviously. I actually just read your post to my wife who chuckled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 It's not my job to identify players. But I don't think you have to be a brain surgeon to know that if you sell a right back for £11m and replace him with one for £3m, and replace a £25m central midfielder with a £5m player and a £8m player then you are probably get players 25-33% as good. And that is what has happened. We replaced Toby properly and whilst VvD isn't as good he is clearly in the right bracket of calibre of player we needed to address the departures. Look at our better players in the summer of 2014 and see how much they cost. Bertrand - £10m. Mane - £10m. Tadic - £10m. Forster - £10m. Pretty much our sweet spot for good players who can contribute tangibly but still have some growth in them. Don't know why we stopped doing that this summer. We only "stopped doing it this summer" for the right back position, when we should have signed somebody of Bertrand class at a Betrand sized fee. Other than that we haven't stopped doing it, have we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 (edited) Edit. Tablet issues Edited 3 January, 2016 by ALWAYS_SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 And to think all this garbage on this forum would not have been posted if we had beaten Norwich. Patheticly sad tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 "Be careful what you wish for" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettIvo Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 it is a bit OTT but no other club that has finished 8th and 7th have lost over half of its starting 11 in 12 months. that is bizarre also. Will leicester lose 4 players this summer? probably not will palace lose bolasie, cabeye and dann? doubt it That saints side cant have been the best ever to have finished 7th No other club finished 8th and 7th in the past two seasons. Leicester will lose the players the big clubs want to take if Leicester don't finish top 4. Bolasie will not be at Palace beyond the summer. Cabaye maybe. That could depend on Alan Pardew's future as much as anything else. Is Dann doing that well right now? Oddly enough his was a name I threw up here in the pre-season as a CB possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettIvo Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Decent players at clubs like Watford, Leicester and Stoke want to stay there. Here, they can't wait to leave, assisted by a board that probably tell players that they sign that a move to Saints could get them a move to a top club in a few seasons. There is a massive difference. Half the "decent" players at Stoke are Liverpool cast-offs. Maybe we should adopt that strategy as well. Arnautovic, Bojan, etc didn't set the world on fire last season. But boy are they doing the business now. Look at them up there, all five points ahead of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Half the "decent" players at Stoke are Liverpool cast-offs. Maybe we should adopt that strategy as well. . Lallana and Lovren to come back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 And to think all this garbage on this forum would not have been posted if we had beaten Norwich. Patheticly sad tbh What's your point.... It's hardly a reaction to just the Norwich game is it, if... Ffs what the duck is if... if we didn't get that, (what now appears to be a fluky win after losing our last two) win against Arsenal we'd only be 4 points clear of 18th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 My opinion on Gary Monk is nothing to do with being an ex-Saint, I thought he had Swansea playing good, dynamic football. Sure - things turned sour, just as they did for Mourinho (with an immense team) and, dare I say it, Ron too. If Monk had been she-ite I wouldn't give him a thought. I agree with you on Eddie Howe. Monk had one golden season when it well for them, but had to sell Bony, and I gather from a couple of Swansea supporters I know , some of the recruits have not been up to scratch (sound familiar?). As you say it turned sour for him, and it could it head that way for RK ? Is a single 'successful' season is the most we can expect from a manager nowadays ?. Perhaps it is, Poch came to us after a good season at Espanyol and it all going tits up the next. As for Howe, that could be coup, but certainly wouldn't happen mid-season, and if AFCB stay up he'll certainly be in demand, but would he be more principled than 'Arry, in 'joining that lot down the road?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 And to think all this garbage on this forum would not have been posted if we had beaten Norwich. Patheticly sad tbh Seriously mate, give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 "Be careful what you wish for" ! I've said that ever since Chris Nichol was sacked. Remember the disaster that followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trout-Tickler Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 It's not my job to identify players. But I don't think you have to be a brain surgeon to know that if you sell a right back for £11m and replace him with one for £3m, and replace a £25m central midfielder with a £5m player and a £8m player then you are probably get players 25-33% as good. And that is what has happened. We replaced Toby properly and whilst VvD isn't as good he is clearly in the right bracket of calibre of player we needed to address the departures. Look at our better players in the summer of 2014 and see how much they cost. Bertrand - £10m. Mane - £10m. Tadic - £10m. Forster - £10m. Pretty much our sweet spot for good players who can contribute tangibly but still have some growth in them. Don't know why we stopped doing that this summer. Realistically, what £25m player could we have replaced Morgan with that would've wanted to come here? Sadly we're not in a position where we can buy that level of player, they simply don't want to come here. I wish it wasn't the case but it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Some of the comparisons on here are laughable . For Scott Dann read Jose Fonte , who we kept . Cabaye couldn't wait to get out of Newcastle , and failed at PSG . Nobody lost the players we lost in 2014 & nobody will , not because of the different boards strategy or ambition , but because ours were an incredible set of circumstances. Leicester , Palace & Watford are overachieving with ok players adding up to more than the sum of their parts . We had exceptional individual talents , who it could be argued underachieved as a team . They were also English or " homegrown" , with the exception of Lovren , a massive attraction for champions league clubs . They had all also ( again with the exception of Lovren ) been at the club a number of years, whether in the first team or the youth . Who in the Leicester side is comparable to Adam Lallana , or Morgan . Who is home grown and played 4-5 years . Who is comparable to Luke Shaw at Watford , the exceptional young player of his position . Our players got better & better , showed they could play in the premiership . They were champions league standard . Who on earth in the Leicester side is? Palace , Leicester , Stoke , Watford are flavour of the month, but you wouldn't buy their players off the back of that . Come back at the end of next season and if they are still top 7 & their players getting better and better , the same ****ing thing will happen to them . If Harry Kane wants to go to Real Madrid and they want him , he will . Same with any Liverpool player . Even Utd , the keeper will end up there . If Barca come calling for Augero , he'll sign . Is that City showing a lack of ambition and "cashing in" , or is it the natural order of things . Every single gem we get will move on , get used to it, accept it and you'll all be a lot happier . Im grateful to Marcus & Kat that they set the foundations and ran the club in auch a way that I get to see these really good players for a part of their careers . I wouldn't swap our future with Stoke , Watford , Palace or Watfords and I wouldn't swap the way we run out club with theirs either . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Some of the comparisons on here are laughable . For Scott Dann read Jose Fonte , who we kept . Cabaye couldn't wait to get out of Newcastle , and failed at PSG . Nobody lost the players we lost in 2014 & nobody will , not because of the different boards strategy or ambition , but because ours were an incredible set of circumstances. Leicester , Palace & Watford are overachieving with ok players adding up to more than the sum of their parts . We had exceptional individual talents , who it could be argued underachieved as a team . They were also English or " homegrown" , with the exception of Lovren , a massive attraction for champions league clubs . They had all also ( again with the exception of Lovren ) been at the club a number of years, whether in the first team or the youth . Who in the Leicester side is comparable to Adam Lallana , or Morgan . Who is home grown and played 4-5 years . Who is comparable to Luke Shaw at Watford , the exceptional young player of his position . Our players got better & better , showed they could play in the premiership . They were champions league standard . Who on earth in the Leicester side is? Palace , Leicester , Stoke , Watford are flavour of the month, but you wouldn't buy their players off the back of that . Come back at the end of next season and if they are still top 7 & their players getting better and better , the same ****ing thing will happen to them . If Harry Kane wants to go to Real Madrid and they want him , he will . Same with any Liverpool player . Even Utd , the keeper will end up there . If Barca come calling for Augero , he'll sign . Is that City showing a lack of ambition and "cashing in" , or is it the natural order of things . Every single gem we get will move on , get used to it, accept it and you'll all be a lot happier . Im grateful to Marcus & Kat that they set the foundations and ran the club in auch a way that I get to see these really good players for a part of their careers . I wouldn't swap our future with Stoke , Watford , Palace or Watfords and I wouldn't swap the way we run out club with theirs either . I am grateful to Marcus and Kat as well. I think Kat is heavily influenced by a board who I disagree with at almost every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 I am grateful to Marcus and Kat as well. I think Kat is heavily influenced by a board who I disagree with at almost every turn. I'm grateful too but we have to move forward now and if they can't do that they need to get new investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Some of the comparisons on here are laughable . For Scott Dann read Jose Fonte , who we kept . Cabaye couldn't wait to get out of Newcastle , and failed at PSG . Nobody lost the players we lost in 2014 & nobody will , not because of the different boards strategy or ambition , but because ours were an incredible set of circumstances. Leicester , Palace & Watford are overachieving with ok players adding up to more than the sum of their parts . We had exceptional individual talents , who it could be argued underachieved as a team . They were also English or " homegrown" , with the exception of Lovren , a massive attraction for champions league clubs . They had all also ( again with the exception of Lovren ) been at the club a number of years, whether in the first team or the youth . Who in the Leicester side is comparable to Adam Lallana , or Morgan . Who is home grown and played 4-5 years . Who is comparable to Luke Shaw at Watford , the exceptional young player of his position . Our players got better & better , showed they could play in the premiership . They were champions league standard . Who on earth in the Leicester side is? Palace , Leicester , Stoke , Watford are flavour of the month, but you wouldn't buy their players off the back of that . Come back at the end of next season and if they are still top 7 & their players getting better and better , the same ****ing thing will happen to them . If Harry Kane wants to go to Real Madrid and they want him , he will . Same with any Liverpool player . Even Utd , the keeper will end up there . If Barca come calling for Augero , he'll sign . Is that City showing a lack of ambition and "cashing in" , or is it the natural order of things . Every single gem we get will move on , get used to it, accept it and you'll all be a lot happier . Im grateful to Marcus & Kat that they set the foundations and ran the club in auch a way that I get to see these really good players for a part of their careers . I wouldn't swap our future with Stoke , Watford , Palace or Watfords and I wouldn't swap the way we run out club with theirs either . Pretty much spot on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We should have replaced Clyne with someone like Kieran Trippier, Carl Jenkinson or Sam Byram. Supposedly we were interested in Byram but weren't willing to pay the £6M fee Leeds wanted. Jenkinson was supposed to be our first choice and rumour has it we had agreed a fee with with Arsenal for £10 million but he chose to go back to West Ham on loan instead. But more importantly we should have replaced Calum Chambers a year earlier - or refused to sell him - as when he left it was obvious Clyne was going to leave. We didn't which meant in the end we had to panic buy this summer. We sold Chambers for £17M and Clyne for £15M so we should at least have spent £15M on two replacements. Not just £5M on Cedric and Martina. We'd be laughing now if we had Jenkinson and Byram at right back. Similarly I don't understand why we let Cork leave last Jsnuary knowing Schneiderlin was going to leave in the summer. We simply shouldn't have let it get to the stage where he felt unwanted and chose to leave. It's not all about the money - but I think Les Reed and Co have convinced themselves they are clever than they are - that they can identify and sign an unknown player from abroad, improve the player, sell him on at a profit and repeat the process. Cedric was this type of signing I guess - but I am not sure he is up to it in the premier league - same with Juanmi. Both are too small for one thing. If we signed one of Trippier, Byram or Jenkinson and Cedric again I think we'd be fairly happy. Martina was just a last minute panic buy - and one I don't really understand. One of the problems I think we've got is our wage bill - if it's at 60% of our turnover isn't it maxed out? If so its means we can't afford to pay anymore thanks to FFP. So maybe it is partly about the money. This is where the lack of commercial revenue and disastrous signings like Osvaldo and Ramírez have bitten us. But we have made some bad signings since those two and I think both Les Reed and his team and the Koemsn brothers share the blame for that. Players like Pellè, Martina, Stekelenburg and Clasie were undoubtedly Koeman brothers signings. Tadic was identified by Reeds team but approved by Koeman according to Ron's comment at the time. Van Dijk was probably the same. And Alderweireld similar. Whereas Juanmi, Cedric, Mané, Gardos and Caulker look like Les Reed signings to me. And not forgetting Long - for the £12 million fee the worst of the lot. We have also lost our English core and a not of our team spirit along with it or so it seems as well. So Reed and Koeman should share the blame for player recruitment - which has taken us a step backwards. But Koeman has to take the blame for our tactics - we no longer press the ball, build from the back or look as fit. We look very one dimensional playing the long ball to Pellè most of the time. Will Koeman walk? Yes I think he will in the summer to protect his reputation - because unless something changes we are going backwards - and probably looking at a relegation battle next season if not this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We should have replaced Clyne with someone like Kieran Trippier, Carl Jenkinson or Sam Byram. Supposedly we were interested in Byram but weren't willing to pay the £6M fee Leeds wanted. Jenkinson was supposed to be our first choice and rumour has it we had agreed a fee with with Arsenal for £10 million but he chose to go back to West Ham on loan instead. But more importantly we should have replaced Calum Chambers a year earlier - or refused to sell him - as when he left it was obvious Clyne was going to leave. We didn't which meant in the end we had to panic buy this summer. We sold Chambers for £17M and Clyne for £15M so we should at least have spent £15M on two replacements. Not just £5M on Cedric and Martina. We'd be laughing now if we had Jenkinson and Byram at right back. Similarly I don't understand why we let Cork leave last Jsnuary knowing Schneiderlin was going to leave in the summer. We simply shouldn't have let it get to the stage where he felt unwanted and chose to leave. It's not all about the money - but I think Les Reed and Co have convinced themselves they are clever than they are - that they can identify and sign an unknown player from abroad, improve the player, sell him on at a profit and repeat the process. Cedric was this type of signing I guess - but I am not sure he is up to it in the premier league - same with Juanmi. Both are too small for one thing. If we signed one of Trippier, Byram or Jenkinson and Cedric again I think we'd be fairly happy. Martina was just a last minute panic buy - and one I don't really understand. One of the problems I think we've got is our wage bill - if it's at 60% of our turnover isn't it maxed out? If so its means we can't afford to pay anymore thanks to FFP. So maybe it is partly about the money. This is where the lack of commercial revenue and disastrous signings like Osvaldo and Ramírez have bitten us. But we have made some bad signings since those two and I think both Les Reed and his team and the Koemsn brothers share the blame for that. Players like Pellè, Martina, Stekelenburg and Clasie were undoubtedly Koeman brothers signings. Tadic was identified by Reeds team but approved by Koeman according to Ron's comment at the time. Van Dijk was probably the same. And Alderweireld similar. Whereas Juanmi, Cedric, Mané, Gardos and Caulker look like Les Reed signings to me. And not forgetting Long - for the £12 million fee the worst of the lot. We have also lost our English core and a not of our team spirit along with it or so it seems as well. So Reed and Koeman should share the blame for player recruitment - which has taken us a step backwards. But Koeman has to take the blame for our tactics - we no longer press the ball, build from the back or look as fit. We look very one dimensional playing the long ball to Pellè most of the time. Will Koeman walk? Yes I think he will in the summer to protect his reputation - because unless something changes we are going backwards - and probably looking at a relegation battle next season if not this one. First class analysis, some depth instead of posturing and blind defence of the Board by the fanboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 To get back to the original OP, I think it would be madness right now to encourage RK to walk or to even think about replacing him. He must be backed by Board and fans alike as quite frankly to do otherwise would be suicide. But ....come the summer he needs to either commit to a new contract or depart, as having a manager prevaricating over the future will impinge on future signings and existing players agreeing to extensions. I don't think RK will sign but let's see. I am sick of being held to ransom by players earning small fortunes, but as my good friend CB Fry has pointed out, money talks the loudest and we either accept it and make the best of a bad job (which by and large RK has done) or we try and completely reform football and reinvent the wheel while we are at it. The bigger clubs will get bigger fuelled by dodgy Arab/Russian/insert what you like money and we are faced with either adopting a Portsmouth type model, forever confined to the lower Leagues forever or who swallowing hard, coughing up ever increasing admittance money and accepting the days of Terry Paine, Mick Channon and Matt le Tissier will never come back. I still go to SMS because I have the lifelong bug, but it is not much fun these days basically because we all know we have now gone as far as we can under the present FPP rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 I'm grateful too but we have to move forward now and if they can't do that they need to get new investment. I asked you this on the 7 out of 9 thread, with no reply, you perhaps didn't se it, so I will try again: When you say investment, do you mean a new owner willing to literally spend his own money buying players and paying wages (neither of which can be done due to the current rules, I think, although I might be wrong) without ever wanting that money paid back? If you mean, spend money by going into further debt, either to the owner or someone else, then the £60m debt we have is more than enough thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 I asked you this on the 7 out of 9 thread, with no reply, so I will try again: When you say investment, do you mean a new owner willing to literally spend his own money buying players and paying wages (neither of which can be done due to the current rules, I think, although I might be wrong) without ever wanting that money paid back? If you mean, spend money by going into further debt, either to the owner or someone else, then the £60m debt we have is more than enough thanks. He can't answer that. Far too confusing for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 we spend plenty IMO just we have had a bad transfer window and it is hurting us. Also, the manager has been hit and miss this season IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 I asked you this on the 7 out of 9 thread, with no reply, you perhaps didn't se it, so I will try again: When you say investment, do you mean a new owner willing to literally spend his own money buying players and paying wages (neither of which can be done due to the current rules, I think, although I might be wrong) without ever wanting that money paid back? If you mean, spend money by going into further debt, either to the owner or someone else, then the £60m debt we have is more than enough thanks. I mean the former which is more flexible than you make out in financial fair play. Also, if you get the club to a better position it will be worth more and when you do sell it you would get more money for you're investment anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 He can't answer that. Far too confusing for him. You must get a huge kick out of doing comments like that congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Some of the comparisons on here are laughable . For Scott Dann read Jose Fonte , who we kept . Cabaye couldn't wait to get out of Newcastle , and failed at PSG . Nobody lost the players we lost in 2014 & nobody will , not because of the different boards strategy or ambition , but because ours were an incredible set of circumstances. Leicester , Palace & Watford are overachieving with ok players adding up to more than the sum of their parts . We had exceptional individual talents , who it could be argued underachieved as a team . They were also English or " homegrown" , with the exception of Lovren , a massive attraction for champions league clubs . They had all also ( again with the exception of Lovren ) been at the club a number of years, whether in the first team or the youth . Who in the Leicester side is comparable to Adam Lallana , or Morgan . Who is home grown and played 4-5 years . Who is comparable to Luke Shaw at Watford , the exceptional young player of his position . Our players got better & better , showed they could play in the premiership . They were champions league standard . Who on earth in the Leicester side is? Palace , Leicester , Stoke , Watford are flavour of the month, but you wouldn't buy their players off the back of that . Come back at the end of next season and if they are still top 7 & their players getting better and better , the same ****ing thing will happen to them . If Harry Kane wants to go to Real Madrid and they want him , he will . Same with any Liverpool player . Even Utd , the keeper will end up there . If Barca come calling for Augero , he'll sign . Is that City showing a lack of ambition and "cashing in" , or is it the natural order of things . Every single gem we get will move on , get used to it, accept it and you'll all be a lot happier . Im grateful to Marcus & Kat that they set the foundations and ran the club in auch a way that I get to see these really good players for a part of their careers . I wouldn't swap our future with Stoke , Watford , Palace or Watfords and I wouldn't swap the way we run out club with theirs either . Excellent post, I was thinking something similar before reading this so thanks for saving me sme time and probably putting it in a better way. It will not be a season to season success for us but as long as the Academy continues to produce every 2-4 years we will get a couple gems, get the enjoyment for a while and then make the money and so it continues. Its tough to see all these players we produce move on to other clubs but who can blame them really - we all would - we should take pride in that we have a club who is doing things the correct way. As long as we stay in the Premier league for decades to come then that is real success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Some of the comparisons on here are laughable . For Scott Dann read Jose Fonte , who we kept . Cabaye couldn't wait to get out of Newcastle , and failed at PSG . Nobody lost the players we lost in 2014 & nobody will , not because of the different boards strategy or ambition , but because ours were an incredible set of circumstances. Leicester , Palace & Watford are overachieving with ok players adding up to more than the sum of their parts . We had exceptional individual talents , who it could be argued underachieved as a team . They were also English or " homegrown" , with the exception of Lovren , a massive attraction for champions league clubs . They had all also ( again with the exception of Lovren ) been at the club a number of years, whether in the first team or the youth . Who in the Leicester side is comparable to Adam Lallana , or Morgan . Who is home grown and played 4-5 years . Who is comparable to Luke Shaw at Watford , the exceptional young player of his position . Our players got better & better , showed they could play in the premiership . They were champions league standard . Who on earth in the Leicester side is? Palace , Leicester , Stoke , Watford are flavour of the month, but you wouldn't buy their players off the back of that . Come back at the end of next season and if they are still top 7 & their players getting better and better , the same ****ing thing will happen to them . If Harry Kane wants to go to Real Madrid and they want him , he will . Same with any Liverpool player . Even Utd , the keeper will end up there . If Barca come calling for Augero , he'll sign . Is that City showing a lack of ambition and "cashing in" , or is it the natural order of things . Every single gem we get will move on , get used to it, accept it and you'll all be a lot happier . Im grateful to Marcus & Kat that they set the foundations and ran the club in auch a way that I get to see these really good players for a part of their careers . I wouldn't swap our future with Stoke , Watford , Palace or Watfords and I wouldn't swap the way we run out club with theirs either . Great post, i wish i had the skill to write such a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 (edited) Seriously mate, give it a rest. To be quite honest i think you should do the same. Like it or not its true, virtually all this stuff would have not been posted if we had won...and you know it Edited 3 January, 2016 by ALWAYS_SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 To be quite honest i think you should do the same. Like it or not its true, virtually all this stuff would have not been posted if we had one...and you know it No I don't and not do the vast majority. But let's hope things improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 No I don't and not do the vast majority. But let's hope things improve. Most definitely something we agree on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We should have replaced Clyne with someone like Kieran Trippier, Carl Jenkinson or Sam Byram. Supposedly we were interested in Byram but weren't willing to pay the £6M fee Leeds wanted. Jenkinson was supposed to be our first choice and rumour has it we had agreed a fee with with Arsenal for £10 million but he chose to go back to West Ham on loan instead. But more importantly we should have replaced Calum Chambers a year earlier - or refused to sell him - as when he left it was obvious Clyne was going to leave. We didn't which meant in the end we had to panic buy this summer. We sold Chambers for £17M and Clyne for £15M so we should at least have spent £15M on two replacements. Not just £5M on Cedric and Martina. We'd be laughing now if we had Jenkinson and Byram at right back. Similarly I don't understand why we let Cork leave last Jsnuary knowing Schneiderlin was going to leave in the summer. We simply shouldn't have let it get to the stage where he felt unwanted and chose to leave. It's not all about the money - but I think Les Reed and Co have convinced themselves they are clever than they are - that they can identify and sign an unknown player from abroad, improve the player, sell him on at a profit and repeat the process. Cedric was this type of signing I guess - but I am not sure he is up to it in the premier league - same with Juanmi. Both are too small for one thing. If we signed one of Trippier, Byram or Jenkinson and Cedric again I think we'd be fairly happy. Martina was just a last minute panic buy - and one I don't really understand. One of the problems I think we've got is our wage bill - if it's at 60% of our turnover isn't it maxed out? If so its means we can't afford to pay anymore thanks to FFP. So maybe it is partly about the money. This is where the lack of commercial revenue and disastrous signings like Osvaldo and Ramírez have bitten us. But we have made some bad signings since those two and I think both Les Reed and his team and the Koemsn brothers share the blame for that. Players like Pellè, Martina, Stekelenburg and Clasie were undoubtedly Koeman brothers signings. Tadic was identified by Reeds team but approved by Koeman according to Ron's comment at the time. Van Dijk was probably the same. And Alderweireld similar. Whereas Juanmi, Cedric, Mané, Gardos and Caulker look like Les Reed signings to me. And not forgetting Long - for the £12 million fee the worst of the lot. We have also lost our English core and a not of our team spirit along with it or so it seems as well. So Reed and Koeman should share the blame for player recruitment - which has taken us a step backwards. But Koeman has to take the blame for our tactics - we no longer press the ball, build from the back or look as fit. We look very one dimensional playing the long ball to Pellè most of the time. Will Koeman walk? Yes I think he will in the summer to protect his reputation - because unless something changes we are going backwards - and probably looking at a relegation battle next season if not this one. Pretty much agree with all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgey Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 I think someone else mentioned this on another thread, but my biggest concern is that RK seems to be having a crisis of confidence in his own tactics/team. He came out and said that he would change tactics / team / training and then we thumped Arsenal, but since then looks like we have reverted to type. Even with his 4231 system I'm unconvinced he knows his best 11 - right back constantly changes, one def mid constantly changes, he's unconvinced with Tadic on the right, moves Mane all over the shop, is uncomfortable playing Long upfront, doesn't know where to play JWP etc etc. This is now undoubtedly his team so he should absolutely know his best team - or change the system to accommodate the players he has. Still think he is a fantastic manager who is making the mistake of putting round shapes in square holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We're going through a bump in the road, is it really worth reinventing the wheel to get over that bump? I wouldn't have thought so. Clubs such as Southampton, Stoke, Leicester, Palace, Everton, will all experience 'bumps' in the road. The clubs that sustainability build and budget for the long term are the clubs who come through that bump and go again. The clubs who panic and spend for the sake of spending go through a massive sinkhole. (see Leeds, Skates). I'm comfortable with the way we do things, for a club of our size it really is the only way we can do things. The people at the club won't be panicking, so why should we? Over the last 5 years we have improved every, single, season. I think last year was very much a high point, it was near on impossible to replicate that again this year. Even Koeman said that this season will be a lot tougher because the expectations rose - and that's true, this is a weird year in the PL. We're in January worrying about being relegated, yet Chelsea are below us 4 pts worse off. Freak season. If I had one single disappointment from this season it would be our lack of European football. We worked so flaming hard to get that last year and threw it away before it even started. That will bug me for a while, and almost as much as that Sunderland FA Cup defeat under MP a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We're going through a bump in the road, is it really worth reinventing the wheel to get over that bump? I wouldn't have thought so. Its a ****ing big bump Ron says we're in trouble, that's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Some of the comparisons on here are laughable . For Scott Dann read Jose Fonte , who we kept . Cabaye couldn't wait to get out of Newcastle , and failed at PSG . Nobody lost the players we lost in 2014 & nobody will , not because of the different boards strategy or ambition , but because ours were an incredible set of circumstances. Leicester , Palace & Watford are overachieving with ok players adding up to more than the sum of their parts . We had exceptional individual talents , who it could be argued underachieved as a team . They were also English or " homegrown" , with the exception of Lovren , a massive attraction for champions league clubs . They had all also ( again with the exception of Lovren ) been at the club a number of years, whether in the first team or the youth . Who in the Leicester side is comparable to Adam Lallana , or Morgan . Who is home grown and played 4-5 years . Who is comparable to Luke Shaw at Watford , the exceptional young player of his position . Our players got better & better , showed they could play in the premiership . They were champions league standard . Who on earth in the Leicester side is? Palace , Leicester , Stoke , Watford are flavour of the month, but you wouldn't buy their players off the back of that . Come back at the end of next season and if they are still top 7 & their players getting better and better , the same ****ing thing will happen to them . If Harry Kane wants to go to Real Madrid and they want him , he will . Same with any Liverpool player . Even Utd , the keeper will end up there . If Barca come calling for Augero , he'll sign . Is that City showing a lack of ambition and "cashing in" , or is it the natural order of things . Every single gem we get will move on , get used to it, accept it and you'll all be a lot happier . Im grateful to Marcus & Kat that they set the foundations and ran the club in auch a way that I get to see these really good players for a part of their careers . I wouldn't swap our future with Stoke , Watford , Palace or Watfords and I wouldn't swap the way we run out club with theirs either . Nail on head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Its a ****ing big bump Ron says we're in trouble, that's good enough for me. We have a great chance to turn it around. 2 home league games in a row. Has to be 4 points minimum. But then. Does it still remain a "bump in the road" if we get 0-2 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Its a ****ing big bump [emoji38] Ron says we're in trouble, that's good enough for me. It's not that big a bump. We're thirteenth in the Premier League, not bottom of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 I mean the former which is more flexible than you make out in financial fair play. Also, if you get the club to a better position it will be worth more and when you do sell it you would get more money for you're investment anyway. Except the club won't increase in value, the cost of the club will remain about the same if we finish, say, sixth or fifteenth, fundementally the club is the same. Any potential purchaser is not going to be heavily influenced by a league position in any given season, as long as we are in the top flight. But a great plan - a new billionaire comes in spends all the money you want him to and only stops when you're happy, then of course we have non stop success forever until the next gazilllionaire turns up and buys it off them. Great thinking Roger, great thinking. Schoolgirl football economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 (edited) Some of the comparisons on here are laughable . For Scott Dann read Jose Fonte , who we kept . Cabaye couldn't wait to get out of Newcastle , and failed at PSG . Nobody lost the players we lost in 2014 & nobody will , not because of the different boards strategy or ambition , but because ours were an incredible set of circumstances. Leicester , Palace & Watford are overachieving with ok players adding up to more than the sum of their parts . We had exceptional individual talents , who it could be argued underachieved as a team . They were also English or " homegrown" , with the exception of Lovren , a massive attraction for champions league clubs . They had all also ( again with the exception of Lovren ) been at the club a number of years, whether in the first team or the youth . Who in the Leicester side is comparable to Adam Lallana , or Morgan . Who is home grown and played 4-5 years . Who is comparable to Luke Shaw at Watford , the exceptional young player of his position . Our players got better & better , showed they could play in the premiership . They were champions league standard . Who on earth in the Leicester side is? Palace , Leicester , Stoke , Watford are flavour of the month, but you wouldn't buy their players off the back of that . Come back at the end of next season and if they are still top 7 & their players getting better and better , the same ****ing thing will happen to them . If Harry Kane wants to go to Real Madrid and they want him , he will . Same with any Liverpool player . Even Utd , the keeper will end up there . If Barca come calling for Augero , he'll sign . Is that City showing a lack of ambition and "cashing in" , or is it the natural order of things . Every single gem we get will move on , get used to it, accept it and you'll all be a lot happier . Im grateful to Marcus & Kat that they set the foundations and ran the club in auch a way that I get to see these really good players for a part of their careers . I wouldn't swap our future with Stoke , Watford , Palace or Watfords and I wouldn't swap the way we run out club with theirs either . And its for that very reason the dullards saying we should simply accept bouncing around the midtable, with the occasional good season a la Stoke, Watford, Palace or Bolton, WBA or Fulham before are speaking complete b*****ks. We've enjoyed a massive windfall that none of these clubs have to reinvest in a quality squad. But to the extent that a large portion has been spent on replacing quality players we've lost, though some of our sales have certainly commanded a premium, the club has shown minimal interest beyond this in strengthening. Koeman's comments about us being the only club to turn a transfer profit are not the ravings of a man who wants to spend, spend, spend his way of trouble, as is dimly and disingenously asserted on here, but are a fact and it is a fact that we lag even the most conservatively run clubs in the division on these measures. Edited 3 January, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Except the club won't increase in value, the cost of the club will remain about the same if we finish, say, sixth or fifteenth, fundementally the club is the same. Any potential purchaser is not going to be heavily influenced by a league position in any given season, as long as we are in the top flight. But a great plan - a new billionaire comes in spends all the money you want him to and only stops when you're happy, then of course we have non stop success forever until the next gazilllionaire turns up and buys it off them. Great thinking Roger, great thinking. Schoolgirl football economics. Very tough to respond when you speak like that. The higher up we are the more the club is worth it's not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We have a great chance to turn it around. 2 home league games in a row. Has to be 4 points minimum. But then. Does it still remain a "bump in the road" if we get 0-2 points? Think 0-2 points means it would be more of a sinkhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 Edit. Tablet issues Keep taking them. Dream manager for me to replace RK......Diego Simeone..... Unfortunately never going to happen. I'd settle for De Boer. Reality.....I think we have reached our ceiling with high profile managers so it will be a mediocre nobody. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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