Koeman to walk?

[Huffton]

No ITK, no inside info, just a feeling I get from his general demeanour and body language, and interview answers. I think he needs backing to the hilt this transfer window or he's gone and were back to square one again:(

[Saints foreva]

I think a lot of it is riding on what the board do in the Summer.

[Dalek2003]

No ITK, no inside info, just a feeling I get from his general demeanour and body language, and interview answers. I think he needs backing to the hilt this transfer window or he's gone and were back to square one again:(

 

Groundhog Day ! We replace him with a mid table League 1 manager !

[Dalek2003]

I think a lot of it is riding on what the board do in the Summer.

 

By which time we could be working out our 'promotion' campaign.

[sadoldgit]

He doesn't like losing. Who does? he is also probably very hacked off with Mane's behaviour and Wanyama's stupid tackles.

[Batman]

thing is. He has been backed more than any other saints manager I remember in my life time.

This team is very much his. Very much his players in almost every aspect.

 

I think the club should be doing less squad padding and more starters being brought in. But RK has been backed

He could be putting pressure on the club as he knows the fans are very much behind him (for now)

 

or, he could be distancing himself prior to a summer exit?

[Huffton]

This team is very much his. Very much his players in almost every aspect.

 

Is it? Or is it Reed, Kreuger, and the Black Box's? I'm really not sure RK has as big a say as a manager should get in who we sign (Cuco Martina?) which IMO is wrong. Use the tools available but the manager has the last say. And talking of Reed and Kreuger, they were all very happy last year when we were riding high, patting each others back and ****ing each other off regularly, where have they gone now things are going a bit pear shaped?

[DuncanRG]

I highly, highly doubt it.

[Chez]

Is it? Or is it Reed, Kreuger, and the Black Box's? I'm really not sure RK has as big a say as a manager should get in who we sign (Cuco Martina?) which IMO is wrong. Use the tools available but the manager has the last say.?

Tadic, Pelle, Martina and Classie are 100% Rons signings. No question, no black box, no committee, just Ron. I'd suggest Romeu is too. Maybe Stek too. I am less sure about,the others, but he will have the final say for sure.

 

His team, his choices. Managers would give their right arm to rebuild a team with the funds made available as have been to him.

[Greenridge]

Is it? Or is it Reed, Kreuger, and the Black Box's? I'm really not sure RK has as big a say as a manager should get in who we sign (Cuco Martina?) which IMO is wrong. Use the tools available but the manager has the last say. And talking of Reed and Kreuger, they were all very happy last year when we were riding high, patting each others back and ****ing each other off regularly, where have they gone now things are going a bit pear shaped?

 

Erwin managed Martina at Waalwijk so he was well known to the Koeman's. As Batman says this team is Ron's to the extent it makes you wonder what role the 'transfer committee' now have other than the paperwork.

[Verbal Kint]

Is it? Or is it Reed, Kreuger, and the Black Box's? I'm really not sure RK has as big a say as a manager should get in who we sign (Cuco Martina?) which IMO is wrong. Use the tools available but the manager has the last say. And talking of Reed and Kreuger, they were all very happy last year when we were riding high, patting each others back and ****ing each other off regularly, where have they gone now things are going a bit pear shaped?

 

I disagree. RK has had TOO much of a say in signings for my liking. His job is on the training pitch and setting teams up for games. No player should be signed without him approving it obviously but equally no player should be signed just because RK wants him. That's why we have an entire scouting and recruiting department, who I'm 99.9% certain weren't putting forward Cuco Martina as a potential signing

Edited 2 January, 2016 by Verbal Kint

[Saints foreva]

I disagree. RK has had TOO much of a say in signings for my liking. His job is on the training pitch and setting teams up for games. No player should be signed without him approving it obviously but equally no player should be signed just before RK wants him. That's why we have an entire scouting and recruiting department, who I'm 99.9% certain weren't putting forward Cuco Martina as a potential signing

 

It's quite clear Martina was a panic buy because Clyne left.

 

Cedric was supposed to be Clyne's backup but he stitched the club up with his new deal when he got news of Liverpool's interest.

[OldNick]

its all very well saying the club backed him and he spent loads, but we sold the real quality and gave us a budget that was only likely to buy also rans, that if they turn out to be any good will be sold on again.

Pelle may have been missed today, but it is patently clear that whilst Long brings many things to our game finishing is not one of them.It seems if he had finished his chances or some of them in the last couple of games things would look rosier. Perhaps a clinical scorer would be just the job for us

[CB Fry]

Is it? Or is it Reed, Kreuger, and the Black Box's? I'm really not sure RK has as big a say as a manager should get in who we sign (Cuco Martina?) which IMO is wrong. Use the tools available but the manager has the last say. And talking of Reed and Kreuger, they were all very happy last year when we were riding high, patting each others back and ****ing each other off regularly, where have they gone now things are going a bit pear shaped?

No, it is Koemans.

 

The black box didn't sign Cuco, the Koeman family did.

[shurlock]

I disagree. RK has had TOO much of a say in signings for my liking. His job is on the training pitch and setting teams up for games. No player should be signed without him approving it obviously but equally no player should be signed just because RK wants him. That's why we have an entire scouting and recruiting department, who I'm 99.9% certain weren't putting forward Cuco Martina as a potential signing

 

Wouldn't be surprised if giving RK greater say in transfers was a condition to him taking a job. It's not ideal but it's understandable enough. It's a bit rich to repeatedly sell your best players without granting some powers and guarantees, in return, to the manager. Otherwise, the club should hire a yes man as no manager worth his salt would want to work in those circumstances.

[DuncanRG]

No, it is Koemans.

 

The black box didn't sign Cuco, the Koeman family did.

 

Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

Besides, the so-called black box is a tool used by people at the club, not some kind of autonomous being that churns out names. If one or other of the Koemans suggested Martina to begin with, he will have been through the same researching and scouting process as everyone else the club monitors. It's hardly shrouded in mystery.

 

The only examples I can see where people might struggle to join the dots is with the two expensive flops from Italy.

 

Cedric was supposed to be Clyne's backup but he stitched the club up with his new deal when he got news of Liverpool's interest.

 

And the club's first choice new right back became unavailable, as Reed (I think it was Reed) said in an interview.

Edited 2 January, 2016 by DuncanRG

[csh398]

Bit of a wee smell from this thread....

[CB Fry]

its all very well saying the club backed him and he spent loads, but we sold the real quality and gave us a budget that was only likely to buy also rans, that if they turn out to be any good will be sold on again.

Pelle may have been missed today, but it is patently clear that whilst Long brings many things to our game finishing is not one of them.It seems if he had finished his chances or some of them in the last couple of games things would look rosier. Perhaps a clinical scorer would be just the job for us

 

Koeman has signed not one, not two but three £10m plus attackers to play alongside Jay Rod, an £8m signing.

 

Koeman signed a £10m plus keeper.

 

Koeman signed two £10m defenders to play alongside our captain, plus a £5m right back who may not be to standard. Plus an £8m defender currently crocked which has been covered by the club by another defender on loan, who had previously been subject to £8m transfers.

 

In midfield/wings Koeman signed £10m winger, plus an £8m midfielder to play alongside our existing £12m midfielder. Added to that is £6m for another midfielder, decent fee for a back up midfielder. Let's skirt over the £12m legend on the bench today.

 

Koeman has signed £10m or thereabouts - some twelve mil, some eight mil - for all over the pitch from front to back, so much so that we very often have ten million quid players on our bench.

 

The idea he has had "a budget to buy only also rans" is utterly fu cking laughable.

 

The cost of the team we put out stacks up very, very well compared to any in our competitive set. And Koeman's hands are all over it.

[Chalkboy]

When we brought him in I thought the thinking behind his appointment was that at Feyenoord he was used to losing his best players, bringing through the academy players and not having much money to spend.

Very similar to us.

When he took the job on he knew what would likely happen with players leaving, and also the way the club recruits and spends. He has said this himself hasn't he?

Whether the board have backed him or not, it's up to him to get the best out what he has at his disposal - I don't expect miracles, but I don't think he's achieving this. I think we have some pretty good players - there are periods of play when we see this. Personally I don't think we are quick enough, or slick enough with our play, don't press enough and don't seem to be as fit as we should be, and the substitutions are questionable. Would we say that player for player we have a better squad than Bournemouth? I would, yet they play far more intensive football. That's down to the coach.

 

Anyway, I know I'll get scorn heaped upon me for suggesting this, but if Ron did go I'd get Gary Monk in. I liked how he had Swansea playing (I know it wasn't going so well in the end, but at start of the season they looked like a real handful) I think he'd be a project manager, would be better acquainted with players from the lower leagues and Championship (rather than cheap foreign players who may need time to adjust) and we wouldn't be looking over our shoulder constantly wondering if he's going to go to Barca or wherever. He might even put some faith in our "legendary" academy

 

I'll keep still while you stone me

[CB Fry]

I believe Stoke City have signed one player for more than £10m in the entire time we've been back in the Premier League.

 

One.

 

We signed Long for twelve million knowing he would be on the bench as "competition" for Pelle.

 

Have a look at Leicester's bank busting signings. Or Palace.

 

Koeman has been given the tools.

[Dig Dig]

Koeman has signed not one, not two but three £10m plus attackers to play alongside Jay Rod, an £8m signing.

 

Koeman signed a £10m plus keeper.

 

Koeman signed two £10m defenders to play alongside our captain, plus a £5m right back who may not be to standard. Plus an £8m defender currently crocked which has been covered by the club by another defender on loan, who had previously been subject to £8m transfers.

 

In midfield/wings Koeman signed £10m winger, plus an £8m midfielder to play alongside our existing £12m midfielder. Added to that is £6m for another midfielder, decent fee for a back up midfielder. Let's skirt over the £12m legend on the bench today.

 

Koeman has signed £10m or thereabouts - some twelve mil, some eight mil - for all over the pitch from front to back, so much so that we very often have ten million quid players on our bench.

 

The idea he has had "a budget to buy only also rans" is utterly fu cking laughable.

 

The cost of the team we put out stacks up very, very well compared to any in our competitive set. And Koeman's hands are all over it.

 

This is true although Koeman has been alluding to a different scenario regarding investment on a couple of occassions but against the backdrop of players sold he can still largely get away with it. Maybe it's a case that he feels that it's better to get playes he knows a bit about if he feels restricted, more likely via wages.

 

As I've said before, our structure shouldn't be about one man, not with the merry go round of managers most clubs get through these days. The long term ramifications if the situation doesn't improve can be difficult for a club to correct.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I believe Stoke City have signed one player for more than £10m in the entire time we've been back in the Premier League.

 

One.

 

We signed Long for twelve million knowing he would be on the bench as "competition" for Pelle.

 

Have a look at Leicester's bank busting signings. Or Palace.

 

Koeman has been given the tools.

 

 

But you fail to say whether you think he has done a good job or not or (as the OP intimated), is he thinking of walking. Just curious because you have quite rightly pointed out RK has been given the tools.

[Roger]

thing is. He has been backed more than any other saints manager I remember in my life time.

This team is very much his. Very much his players in almost every aspect.

 

I think the club should be doing less squad padding and more starters being brought in. But RK has been backed

He could be putting pressure on the club as he knows the fans are very much behind him (for now)

 

or, he could be distancing himself prior to a summer exit?

 

That's too far he hasn't at all lost all his best players poch was backed heavily.

[VectisSaint]

Is it? Or is it Reed, Kreuger, and the Black Box's? I'm really not sure RK has as big a say as a manager should get in who we sign (Cuco Martina?) which IMO is wrong. Use the tools available but the manager has the last say. And talking of Reed and Kreuger, they were all very happy last year when we were riding high, patting each others back and ****ing each other off regularly, where have they gone now things are going a bit pear shaped?

According to Ronald, Ralph was giving the team a motivation speech yesterday, and today Mane turns up late (about 4.10,

). Ronald is fuming and is saying he can't manage the player.

Maybe Sadio thinks the same about Ralph's motivational speeches as me

[Verbal Kint]

But you fail to say whether you think he has done a good job or not or (as the OP intimated), is he thinking of walking. Just curious because you have quite rightly pointed out RK has been given the tools.

 

The first half of last season was some of the best football I've seen from us in a very long time. Since then it has been dull, negative, possession based propaganda football and he as a manager does not seem to fit with the way the club wants us to be. He doesn't have any faith in our youngsters, he doesn't play attacking football and, perhaps most importantly, he doesn't seem to be in agreement with our transfer policy, judging by his comments over the last week or so.

 

He shouldn't be thinking of walking, he should be worried about getting the sack

[OldNick]

Koeman has signed not one, not two but three £10m plus attackers to play alongside Jay Rod, an £8m signing.

 

Koeman signed a £10m plus keeper.

 

Koeman signed two £10m defenders to play alongside our captain, plus a £5m right back who may not be to standard. Plus an £8m defender currently crocked which has been covered by the club by another defender on loan, who had previously been subject to £8m transfers.

 

In midfield/wings Koeman signed £10m winger, plus an £8m midfielder to play alongside our existing £12m midfielder. Added to that is £6m for another midfielder, decent fee for a back up midfielder. Let's skirt over the £12m legend on the bench today.

 

Koeman has signed £10m or thereabouts - some twelve mil, some eight mil - for all over the pitch from front to back, so much so that we very often have ten million quid players on our bench.

 

The idea he has had "a budget to buy only also rans" is utterly fu cking laughable.

 

The cost of the team we put out stacks up very, very well compared to any in our competitive set. And Koeman's hands are all over it.

that is a fair observation about the cost players.

Are you saying that in the main we haven't signed also rans?

It does put into focus how poor our club is at buying players and their values.

you also made a statement that Cuco was signed by Koeman period, perhaps you could furnish us with the evidence to back up your certainty?

I ask as it is so unusual for you to actually make such a statement

[VectisSaint]

Is it? Or is it Reed, Kreuger, and the Black Box's? I'm really not sure RK has as big a say as a manager should get in who we sign (Cuco Martina?) which IMO is wrong. Use the tools available but the manager has the last say. And talking of Reed and Kreuger, they were all very happy last year when we were riding high, patting each others back and ****ing each other off regularly, where have they gone now things are going a bit pear shaped?

This is so clearly a Koeman (Ronald and Erwin) team as its possible to be. Pelle, Tadic, Clasie, Martina, VvD, Stek. All clearly Koeman players, that's over half a team. Juanmi and Cedric, maybe not. Of course the mythical Black Box may have had some of these players in its sights, but the team has RK written all over it (as it should be).

[diggers]

Gary Monk.

[Badger]

Gary Monk.

 

No thanks. Thee is a reason he's available.

 

If we do need to recruit a new manager, then the summer would be the time to do it, and try to attract someone of choice rather than one who has just fallen off the merry merrygoround.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

At the start of the season I said he'd be off at the end of the season. He never stays anywhere long & was never going to be able to repeat the success of last season.

[Jonnyboy]

Is Glen Hoddle employed at the moment?

[shurlock]

This is true although Koeman has been alluding to a different scenario regarding investment on a couple of occassions but against the backdrop of players sold he can still largely get away with it. Maybe it's a case that he feels that it's better to get playes he knows a bit about if he feels restricted, more likely via wages.

 

As I've said before, our structure shouldn't be about one man, not with the merry go round of managers most clubs get through these days. The long term ramifications if the situation doesn't improve can be difficult for a club to correct.

 

Or he sees those additions as only making good the key players he's lost over the past two seasons which, in his view, is not the same as strengthening or building on the side - hence his various references to us being only club to make a profit in the transfer window.

Edited 2 January, 2016 by shurlock

[Chalkboy]

Gary Monk.

 

No thanks. Thee is a reason he's available.

 

If we do need to recruit a new manager, then the summer would be the time to do it, and try to attract someone of choice rather than one who has just fallen off the merry merrygoround.

 

Isn't he available at the moment because nobody has been sacked just yet? Or he's not interested? Personally thought he had Swansea playing good football. If someone gets the sack does that mean we cross them off our list? Swansea was his first managerial position.

[CB Fry]

But you fail to say whether you think he has done a good job or not or (as the OP intimated), is he thinking of walking. Just curious because you have quite rightly pointed out RK has been given the tools.

 

He's not doing the job expected right now because we're thirteenth. I don't think he is thinking of walking, and I can't see us sacking him even if we end up, say, 15th or so - he might then go at the end of the season if we do finish that low, I imagine there is a break/review clause at that point anyway, or at least it is a natural end.

 

At this point I expect us to havea run of form at some point and be fine, I like our manager very much and I would like to see him deliver us back to a level that the cost of our squad should deliver - around about 10th from where we are now.

[DuncanRG]

We signed Long for twelve million knowing he would be on the bench as "competition" for Pelle.

 

Have a look at Leicester's bank busting signings. Or Palace.

 

Koeman has been given the tools.

 

How anyone can contest this is beyond me.

 

Calls to spend money are often dreamed up lazily because people can't imagine the same players performing differently. It's less rare to accuse people who have spent money of not doing so. Spending it wisely is the issue and that can't always be judged immediately. See Vardy, or Arnautovic at Stoke, for players who looked no great shakes for a long time, improved and look like inspired signings. I personally believe Jordy Clasie, for one, has been good and shown signs he will be even better.

 

In fairness to Koeman he's making noise around the January window, which we don't normally do much in.

Edited 2 January, 2016 by DuncanRG

[CB Fry]

that is a fair observation about the cost players.

Are you saying that in the main we haven't signed also rans?

It does put into focus how poor our club is at buying players and their values.

you also made a statement that Cuco was signed by Koeman period, perhaps you could furnish us with the evidence to back up your certainty?

I ask as it is so unusual for you to actually make such a statement

 

You said he was "given a budget that was only likely to buy also rans" which is not the same thing. He may have signed also rans, but he has been given a budget to assemble a team to be competitive and is comparable with other clubs.

 

You're asking for evidence from me that Cuco Martina is a Koeman signing? Dear god. We signed him from Twente, and he spent eighteen months playing for Erwin Koeman, who is currently the assistant manager of Southampton Football Club and also the brother of the first team manager, Ronald Koeman.

 

I'd like you to find some evidence that Cuco was a player unearthed by Reed and the black box and thrust onto an unsuspecting and helpless Ronald Koeman.

[Roger]

Anyone got the Cortese bbc interview. Compare that to this shower of a board.

[Sour Mash]

If you lose the quality of player we have, you'd have to spend a fortune to bring in players of equal quality.

 

People are so keen to have someone to blame, it's not necessarily the fault of either the board or Koeman, a few errors from them both in a tough season.

[Sour Mash]

Anyone got the Cortese bbc interview. Compare that to this shower of a board.

You don't half post some b*****s on here.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Anyone got the Cortese bbc interview. Compare that to this shower of a board.

 

Roger! What are you on about?

I think you are losing it

[Wade Garrett]

Koeman has signed not one, not two but three £10m plus attackers to play alongside Jay Rod, an £8m signing.

 

Koeman signed a £10m plus keeper.

 

Koeman signed two £10m defenders to play alongside our captain, plus a £5m right back who may not be to standard. Plus an £8m defender currently crocked which has been covered by the club by another defender on loan, who had previously been subject to £8m transfers.

 

In midfield/wings Koeman signed £10m winger, plus an £8m midfielder to play alongside our existing £12m midfielder. Added to that is £6m for another midfielder, decent fee for a back up midfielder. Let's skirt over the £12m legend on the bench today.

 

Koeman has signed £10m or thereabouts - some twelve mil, some eight mil - for all over the pitch from front to back, so much so that we very often have ten million quid players on our bench.

 

The idea he has had "a budget to buy only also rans" is utterly fu cking laughable.

 

The cost of the team we put out stacks up very, very well compared to any in our competitive set. And Koeman's hands are all over it.

 

He had half the team sold. Puts a slightly different slant on things.

[shurlock]

How anyone can contest this is beyond me.

 

Calls to spend money are often dreamed up lazily because people can't imagine the same players performing differently. It's less rare to accuse people who have spent money of not doing so. Spending it wisely is the issue and that can't always be judged immediately. See Vardy, or Arnautovic at Stoke, for players who looked no great shakes for a long time, improved and look like inspired signings. I personally believe Jordy Clasie, for one, has been good and shown signs he will be even better.

 

In fairness to Koeman he's making noise around the January window, which we don't normally do much in.

 

 

Koeman wants to strengthen the side - not just spend to compensate (in vain) for what he's lost. Equally simple, incontestable stuff, trevor.

Edited 2 January, 2016 by shurlock

[Verbal Kint]

Koeman wants to strengthen the side - not just spend to compensate for what he's lost. Simple, incontestable stuff, sunshine.

 

He knew the job he was coming into. If he doesn't like the model he shouldn't have taken the job. If he was a very good manager he'd see that selling players for far more than their worth is a good thing as it gives him the funds to go out and build a better team than the one before. You wouldn't buy back any of the key players we have sold for the fees we sold them for over the last two summers. If he hasn't spent the money well enough then he only has himself to blame

[Roger]

Anyone got the Cortese bbc interview. Compare that to this shower of a board.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Koeman wants to strengthen the side - not just spend to compensate (in vain) for what he's lost. Equally simple, incontestable stuff, trevor.

 

He needs to manage within the budget he's given . I don't believe for one minute that anything has changed in terms of ambition or budget . The only thing that has changed is our results & like most managers , when results get bad they want more money . If he doesn't like the budget or ambition of the club he should **** off and we can get someone in who will. He was happy with the ambition of the club when he's winning and getting praised , poor results & surprise surprise it's down to the board not him .

[Wade Garrett]

I think that club policy on transfers is seriously flawed. I've said it before, get rid of the board, not the manager.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think that club policy on transfers is seriously flawed. I've said it before, get rid of the board, not the manager.

 

And get who in ? Venkys , Ellis Short , Randy Lerner , Mike Ashley ? Anyway , how do you " get rid of the board"

[sandwichsaint]

Would anyone be suggesting Gary Monk for next manager if he wasn't ex-Saints? I'll go for a Skate, Eddie Howe.

[Wade Garrett]

And get who in ? Venkys , Ellis Short , Randy Lerner , Mike Ashley ? Anyway , how do you " get rid of the board"

 

Replace the decision makers. Kat has done it before.

 

Read that the Watford forward banging them in has come out and said he's going nowhere, and Vardy talking about a new deal with Leicester. Our board would have them out the door in no time.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Replace the decision makers. Kat has done it before.

 

Read that the Watford forward banging them in has come out and said he's going nowhere, and Vardy talking about a new deal with Leicester. Our board would have them out the door in no time.

 

Can you name one player that has left who was happy to stay & sign a new contract and wanted to stay , but the board cashed in . If Vardy wants out , he'll go and there's not a damn thing Leicester can do about it . I've no doubt that the powers that be would have wanted Lallana , Clyne, Morgan & Lovren out there today as much as any supporter .