Norwich V Saints Post match despair...

[Verbal Kint]

Yes I remember that game well. End of season affair with a depleted attack and zero pace (no Jrod), though it didn't stop Davis and Lallana missing absolute sitters (better chances than anything we created yesterday or against Wham). FWIW, we failed to score under Koeman in nearly twice as many games as under MP. That's fact, not propaganda.

 

Just looked it up. 65% possession and 6 attempts at goal all game. If that is entertaining football to some then that's their opinion, but it's not one i share. Without the ball I've never seen a team as energetic, with the ball I've rarely seen a team so flat.

 

And the football under RK i was referring to was in the first half of last season. The majority of football in 2015 was poor

[shurlock]

Just looked it up. 65% possession and 6 attempts at goal all game. If that is entertaining football to some then that's their opinion, but it's not one i share. Without the ball I've never seen a team as energetic, with the ball I've rarely seen a team so flat.

 

And the football under RK i was referring to was in the first half of last season. The majority of football in 2015 was poor

 

Eh. I didn't say it was entertaining. It was a drab end of season affair with zero pace and a depleted attack. Just pointing out, as a minor observation, that even in that borefest, we created better chances than we did yesterday or even against Wham.

 

Of course, its just as easy to find drab games of football under RK (WBA away must have a jinx), so ultimately proves little. As I say, in those two seasons, we drew blanks significantly more often under RK than MP. And was someone only judged on half a season of football? Will the real RK please stand up.

 

#cherrypickingatitsfinest

[Verbal Kint]

Eh. I didn't say it was entertaining. It was a drab end of season affair with zero pace and a depleted attack. Just pointing out, as a minor observation, that even in that borefest, we created better chances than we did yesterday or even against Wham.

 

Of course, its just as easy to find drab games of football under RK (WBA away must have a jinx), so ultimately proves little. As I say, in those two seasons, we drew blanks significantly more often under RK than MP. And was someone only judged on half a season of football? Will the real RK please stand up.

 

#cherrypickingatitsfinest

 

I find the football under RK in general equally as dull, and wouldn't mind in the slightest if he was sacked tomorrow. Just pointing out that I thought we played much better football in those first few months under him than under MP at any time. Since then the real RK has stood up as you suggest, and he's reverted to being dull, defensive and more concerned with controlling games than scoring goals in order to win them.

[derry]

I find the football under RK in general equally as dull, and wouldn't mind in the slightest if he was sacked tomorrow. Just pointing out that I thought we played much better football in those first few months under him than under MP at any time. Since then the real RK has stood up as you suggest, and he's reverted to being dull, defensive and more concerned with controlling games than scoring goals in order to win them.

 

It isn't working except 4-4-2 against Arsenal which he couldn't wait to revert to losing.

[Convict Colony]

Biggest problem is:

 

Attacking Midfielder (Davis) hardly ever scores and his replacement (JWP) only has scored a penalty for us.

 

This time last year both Morgan and Vic had scored 6 goals, so far this year our DM partnership has 1 goal (Romeu)

 

Tadic does not score enough for the positions he gets into, same with Shane Long.

 

Pelle needs 5 chances for every 1 goal scored.

[red&white56]

Biggest problem is:

 

Attacking Midfielder (Davis) hardly ever scores and his replacement (JWP) only has scored a penalty for us.

 

This time last year both Morgan and Vic had scored 6 goals, so far this year our DM partnership has 1 goal (Romeu)

 

Tadic does not score enough for the positions he gets into, same with Shane Long.

 

Pelle needs 5 chances for every 1 goal scored.

 

This hits the nail on the head - we created some good chances yesterday but nobody seems to want to score or rather take the responsibility to try to score. At least Clasie shot and forced a save .............

 

But from memory didn't Tadic pass away, rather than shoot, in at least 2 positions. If you don't shoot you can never score.

[Cosmic]

Disagree. I think if you look closely enough many of our weaknesses up top have been long in the making -and Koeman has always been pragmatic rather than offensive-minded, something that has made it easier for the side to "go into a shell" now results have dipped.

 

Note that both MP and Koeman's sides in 2013/14 and 2014/15 respectively scored the same number of goals, though MP's season wasnt inflated by two freak results and his side was forced to rely on Sam Gallagher for a significant period. I know which team I preferred watching with its fluidity and control, though it doesn't take away from Koeman's stellar achievements in light of the context in which he joined the club.

 

I agree that he is pragmatic in defence, but for the early part of last season we attacked with far more pace than we ever saw under Pochettino. I never found us particularly entertaining under Pochettino. We were neat and tidy but far too often slow and predictable. And whilst we very often controlled the ball, we didn't actually control games that often. We also had better attacking players under Pochettino.

 

But yes, it's a matter of opinion; I far preferred watching Heynckes' Bayern team to Guardiola's because the moved the ball so quickly and attacked at such pace, but obviously many would prefer Guardiola's team.

[St_Tel49]

Thought he had a very good game myself.

 

He could give an 11/10 performance and Roger would still think that he was poor!

[Super_Uwe]

Desperately disappointing result coupled with the Mane and Wanyama controversy. Koeman's interview yesterday after the game was very emotional, he must have been seriously peeved.

 

It will be interesting to see where the team goes over the next few weeks. Hopefully we can bring one or two faces in to liven things up before the end of the transfer window. Am also looking forward to Rodriguez and Forster coming back at some stage to help us in the run-in.

[Graffito]

Two games in a row we should never have lost. At least West Ham stepped it up second half but Norwich were sh1te. And they beat us.

[Mr Biscuits]

They won't. Get them signed up on long contracts when we buy them so that we can control when they're sold and sell for very big fees. Which the board have done. Then they need to make sure we have one of the best scouting and recruitment set ups in the country. The big clubs are lazy, they would rather spend 25 million on Lallana then find a player from elsewhere with just as much talent for a fraction of that price. And it's perfectly clear that it is possible to do, and is where we should have an advantage over clubs of our size. Not many clubs below the big 6/7 have a first team full of 8 million + players like we do, and the reality is we didn't recruit well enough last summer. That needs to change.

 

This summer we will raise 60 million + if we sell Mane, Pelle and Wanyama and with Ramirez, Caulker and Stekelenburg off the wage bill we should be able to go and buy 5 or 6 quality players. If we don't then RK and the scouting department will have failed us

 

This season is showing exactly why that particular tactic doesn't work.

[captainchris]

Just looked it up. 65% possession and 6 attempts at goal all game. If that is entertaining football to some then that's their opinion, but it's not one i share. Without the ball I've never seen a team as energetic, with the ball I've rarely seen a team so flat.

 

And the football under RK i was referring to was in the first half of last season. The majority of football in 2015 was poor

 

I am sorry but you just got completely round the wrong way. Without the ball we fail to close down and mark up - that is precisely the problem. Koeman does not coach closing down and winning the ball back.. Pochettino is such a superior coach.... We are actually playing ok with the ball... Just lacking a bit of class here and there...

Without the ball however we are and have been ever since Koeman took over nothing short of dreadful...

[Verbal Kint]

I am sorry but you just got completely round the wrong way. Without the ball we fail to close down and mark up - that is precisely the problem. Koeman does not coach closing down and winning the ball back.. Pochettino is such a superior coach.... We are actually playing ok with the ball... Just lacking a bit of class here and there...

Without the ball however we are and have been ever since Koeman took over nothing short of dreadful...

 

I don't know what you're referring to? The energetic bit I was talking about was in reference to MP's style not Koeman's.

[Verbal Kint]

This season is showing exactly why that particular tactic doesn't work.

 

It does and will work if our scouting system is good enough and we don't allow an average manager to pick our transfer targets. A combination of both resulted in a poor summer.

 

Your alternative tactic is really groundbreaking stuff. Just start plucking money out of thin air to pay players six figure salaries. That's not a solution, that's childish nonsense

[captainchris]

I don't know what you're referring to? The energetic bit I was talking about was in reference to MP's style not Koeman's.

 

Fair enough

[Mr Biscuits]

It does and will work if our scouting system is good enough and we don't allow an average manager to pick our transfer targets. A combination of both resulted in a poor summer.

 

Your alternative tactic is really groundbreaking stuff. Just start plucking money out of thin air to pay players six figure salaries. That's not a solution, that's childish nonsense

 

Disappoint that you choose to resort to insult. Still, your choice.

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

No doubt about it Koeman has seriously messed up with tactics on numerous occasions this season. Yes we have depleted numbers in attack currently but to replace Mane with JWP was just ridiculous. No one understands why he hasn't continued with same system that worked so well against Arsenal. Just mind boggling really.

 

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[Saint Fan CaM]

OK lets bust some 'myths'...

1. I don't think Wanyama deliberately got sent off. Schneiderlin was super fit and covered a huge amount of ground meaning that Wanyama's job was easier. Now he has found he needs to cover more ground - is not fit enough to do so and so by 60-70 into the game he is tiring and fatigued - that is what makes players jump in with daft risky challenges.

2. Clasie made one crucial mistake in the game, which led to their goal. Yes, this is true but every player makes at least one mistake per game. The real problem was the lack of movement AFTER he was nutmegged. He just froze with no effort to get goal-side of the ball. If enough players in a team do that, games will inevitably be lost. The team that got us promoted had the fitness and team spirit to match the technical ability of 'technically better' sides.

3. Martina has had how many 1st team appearances - 2 or 3? Have these performances been any worse than Soares? No. The guy is improving every game and deserves more time.

4. JWP - why does he keep getting picked? Because the club need to sell and need him to perform to a level that tempts other clubs he's the 'next best thing' from our great Academy. Problem is, he's pretty mediocre - probably L1 - Championship level and definitely does not have enough in his kit bag to suggest he can make an impact in a Prem game. Catch-22 and I would hazard a guess that Koeman will be instructed to keep picking him.

5. Jose is a great captain. So where was he when Wanyama needed on-field guidance? Do you ever see him motivating his team-mates? I don't know - a great servant - a good defender on his day, but I just don't see enough spunk and determination being driven into this team.

 

Blast away.

[derry]

Hell, this is your opinion and in my view pretty indisputable. There is a hell of a lot more along the same lines you could have said about others, fill your boots.