Cuco Martina

[Saint Charlie]

apart from going to sleep a few times at the back stick just like he did against spurs. Just they scored from it

against palace and villa that springs to mind

Was run ragged by Stoke too.

 

But obviously a reason why Martina couldn't get a game ahead of Yoshida at RB on more than one occassion this season. They see him every day in training.

[Batman]

Was run ragged by Stoke too.

 

But obviously a reason why Martina couldn't get a game ahead of Yoshida at RB on more than one occassion this season. They see him every day in training.

so, he hasnt been 'sound defensively' prior to the spurs game.

nor were saints in general to be fair

[sadoldgit]

He made a TWO glaring mistakes that on another day could have cost us goals and then he would be getting slated. A poor headed clearance in the first half that lead to a shot on goal and a poor clearance in the second half that also lead to an attempt on goal.

 

He does look more solid and physical than Cedric though so he deserved to keep the shirt. I also hope he improves once match fitness and sharpness come along.

 

On the up side when Yoshi makes mistakes like that we concede goals. At least he makes better quality mistakes.

[david in sweden]

I had a whole bunch of gags like Cuco the Clown lined up and he ruined my evening's entertainment. I am SO ANGRY.

 

 

4-0 against Arsenal ?....what does it take to make you happy ?

[Batman]

looked horrendous today.

think he had 'his game' against arsenal. At least he will be remembered for a long time with that goal

[Saints foreva]

Didn't even resemble a footballer today unfortunately.

[WealdSaint]

Has got a good long throw on him

But this game was always going to be the one where we found out a bit more about him

[VectisSaint]

His defensive weaknesses were there for all who cared to see them on Saturday. Got found out today.

[sammysaint]

Same he could not build on his good performance vs Arsenal it shows that Cedric is still our best RB, but sadly he is not good enough yet if we want to match last seasons 7th place finish, however I am confident he will become a decent RB he just needs to adapt.

[John Boy Saint]

Think we need to cut him a little bit of slack, like all the players he put a shift in on Saturday, scored an absolute belter of a goal resulting in every man jack wanting a piece of him. So you have a lad who comes from a small island has been sitting on the bench or waiting his turn in the side, suddenly he is propelled as fast as the ball hit the back of the net into the limelight, as well as the physicality of Saturday's game that attention has to have taken an emotional toll too. You could see he knew he had played duff balls when he did yesterday, but there is no point beating the bloke up over it..... Give him a chance.

The way our right backs get slated on here we may as well play with a back 3 ........... Cos that really works a treat.

(45 hours might have been nothing to the old players saying get on with it but Premier league football is much more demanding today than it was 5 years ago)

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Think we need to cut him a little bit of slack, like all the players he put a shift in on Saturday, scored an absolute belter of a goal resulting in every man jack wanting a piece of him. So you have a lad who comes from a small island has been sitting on the bench or waiting his turn in the side, suddenly he is propelled as fast as the ball hit the back of the net into the limelight, as well as the physicality of Saturday's game that attention has to have taken an emotional toll too. You could see he knew he had played duff balls when he did yesterday, but there is no point beating the bloke up over it..... Give him a chance.

The way our right backs get slated on here we may as well play with a back 3 ........... Cos that really works a treat.

(45 hours might have been nothing to the old players saying get on with it but Premier league football is much more demanding today than it was 5 years ago)

 

Good post John, but sadly the way on here is to write people off after very few games,Mane,Pelle,tadic,Clasie,vvd etc...have all suffered the same..why?

Edited 29 December, 2015 by ALWAYS_SFC

[eddie]

gunna get shot down but, thought he wasn't absolutely horrendous last night. I noticed tadic being v appreciative of his efforts going forward, always looking for an attacking pass. v good at heading, noticed he won several 1on1's while pressing off the ball, basically all in 1st half. 2nd I noticed he was poorer, with 3-4 wayward passes giving possession over, and also valencia (was it?) easily getting behind him to cross it. I also noticed that he tried some flair football once or twice - looked very happy on the ball.

 

I'm not saying he's world class, or even reliable, but he is better than people make out. I've said in the past I thought he was useless - but in all seriousness I now think on this seasons form I almost prefer him at RB to yoshida. Yoshida is such an utterly boring and negative player (hardly ever plays forward), who is capable of a goal-conceding shambles.

 

I agree though that he was at fault for at least 1 goal

[percy windham]

Good post John, but sadly the way on here is to write people off after very few games,Mane,Pelle,tadic,Clasie,vvd etc...have all suffered the same..why?

 

Is it because they are all black?

[SaintEllz]

He was okay yesterday. Nowhere near as bad as people thought he was as a player despite never seeing him play.

[mattiiiboiii7]

Not sure where to put this, somebody mentioned this a while ago that would JWP be a worth a shout at RB?

 

Reasons:

1. Hasn't nailed down an exact position yet playing CDM, CAM and out wide before

1. His all round ability is good (not world class to unlock defenses at CAM or to be a destroyer at CDM) so his good technical ability and being comfortable on the ball would shine at RB.

2. Technically being is CM he is used to both attacking and defending

3. Similar to the above about being good defensively - he said he likes CDM so defensively minded

4. Has an excellent cross on him

5. Often runs more than any other player on the pitch so fitness isn't an issue getting back and forth

6. Can't score and RBs aren't expected to score much!

 

Or am I way off? Thoughts?

[Goatboy]

Not sure where to put this, somebody mentioned this a while ago that would JWP be a worth a shout at RB?

 

Reasons:

1. Hasn't nailed down an exact position yet playing CDM, CAM and out wide before

1. His all round ability is good (not world class to unlock defenses at CAM or to be a destroyer at CDM) so his good technical ability and being comfortable on the ball would shine at RB.

2. Technically being is CM he is used to both attacking and defending

3. Similar to the above about being good defensively - he said he likes CDM so defensively minded

4. Has an excellent cross on him

5. Often runs more than any other player on the pitch so fitness isn't an issue getting back and forth

6. Can't score and RBs aren't expected to score much!

 

Or am I way off? Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are that unless he is faced with Brian Snail playing left wing for every other club, he may struggle.

[eddie]

Not sure where to put this, somebody mentioned this a while ago that would JWP be a worth a shout at RB?

 

Reasons:

1. Hasn't nailed down an exact position yet playing CDM, CAM and out wide before

1. His all round ability is good (not world class to unlock defenses at CAM or to be a destroyer at CDM) so his good technical ability and being comfortable on the ball would shine at RB.

2. Technically being is CM he is used to both attacking and defending

3. Similar to the above about being good defensively - he said he likes CDM so defensively minded

4. Has an excellent cross on him

5. Often runs more than any other player on the pitch so fitness isn't an issue getting back and forth

6. Can't score and RBs aren't expected to score much!

 

Or am I way off? Thoughts?

 

in principle I like the idea. I wonder whether it is too monumental a shift to work out. plus you don't know what koeman has tried on the training ground and not worked. bale's shift fwd was clearly the result of proving himself as an attacker on the training ground

 

on point 6 though - bear in mind gary neville only scored 5 goals in his whole man U career .......!

[sadoldgit]

The lad clearly has potential. The club think so. England think so. Maybe he needs more and intense coaching? Maybe he just needs more time? Maybe I am an eternal optimist but I still think he will turn out to be a quality player for us.

[VectisSaint]

Not sure where to put this, somebody mentioned this a while ago that would JWP be a worth a shout at RB?

I can't remember which game it was, but he was already tried at RB a couple of years ago, and was awful. He really has none of the attributes of a modern full back, can't tackle and is slow. Would be a terrible move. The days of playing your worst players at full back have long gone, thank goodness.

[Edmonton Saint]

He was wasteful in possession yesterday, gave the ball away numerous times. Also his defending and positioning are very suspect as well. The fact that people here think it's ok for a club with European ambitions (the boards words) to be playing a player like this sums up the horror show that was the summer transfer dealings.

[Batman]

He was wasteful in possession yesterday, gave the ball away numerous times. Also his defending and positioning are very suspect as well. The fact that people here think it's ok for a club with European ambitions (the boards words) to be playing a player like this sums up the horror show that was the summer transfer dealings.

 

exactly the sort of signing we should not be making

[ALWAYS_SFC]

He was wasteful in possession yesterday, gave the ball away numerous times. Also his defending and positioning are very suspect as well. The fact that people here think it's ok for a club with European ambitions (the boards words) to be playing a player like this sums up the horror show that was the summer transfer dealings.

 

If there was ever a better example for the term "ridiculous comment" I would like to see it.

 

The overreactions when we lose a game are becoming more ludicrous.

[Saint Martini]

AS a fightback he is much better then our other backup alternatives (Yoshida & Caulker). Caulker turns so slowly he'll be exposed time and time again against quick wingers and Yoshida has a tendency to play like a centre back when there's crosses coming in (i.e. he comes over to far leaving his direct opponent free at the far post).

[The9]

Deserves a thread. Yes' date=' there was THAT goal but I thought he did well. Kept the shape well at the back and kept Theo quiet too.[/quote']

 

He also headed the ball straight to an Arsenal player just outside the 6 yard box at one point with no-one near him. It was Yoshida-like in its ineptitude. Bloody hilarious goal though.

[david in sweden]

Same he could not build on his good performance vs Arsenal it shows that Cedric is still our best RB, but sadly he is not good enough yet if we want to match last seasons 7th place finish, however I am confident he will become a decent RB he just needs to adapt.

 

Schneiderlin and Clyne were ....argueably ..the "best" of the players we've lost in the last 2 years. They will be hard to replace, but looking back neither of them looked like Prem. class - when we got back-up in 2012. It took time to develop to that level, and some of our " newer arrivals " have barely had a dozen starts yet.

Injuries and/or "bench time" don't help compared with consistancy of playing every week, instead of coming on in the last 15 mins.

Martina will only improve with real game-time, if he's to live up to the reputation of " his wonder goal ".

 

There are several factors why we managed to get so high in the table early on last season....with an easier fixture list being the major one.

Equally ..after the long term absence of Jay Rod, Pelle's excessive "dry spell", Forster's injury and a lack of " an experienced bench " it brought us down a level.

 

As for getting 7th place again this season....Personally, I'll be glad if we " stabilise " results a bit and finish in the top half of the table.

Edited 30 December, 2015 by david in sweden

[Donatello]

gunna get shot down but, thought he wasn't absolutely horrendous last night. I noticed tadic being v appreciative of his efforts going forward, always looking for an attacking pass. v good at heading, noticed he won several 1on1's while pressing off the ball, basically all in 1st half. 2nd I noticed he was poorer, with 3-4 wayward passes giving possession over, and also valencia (was it?) easily getting behind him to cross it. I also noticed that he tried some flair football once or twice - looked very happy on the ball.

 

I'm not saying he's world class, or even reliable, but he is better than people make out. I've said in the past I thought he was useless - but in all seriousness I now think on this seasons form I almost prefer him at RB to yoshida. Yoshida is such an utterly boring and negative player (hardly ever plays forward), who is capable of a goal-conceding shambles.

 

I agree though that he was at fault for at least 1 goal

 

Agree with this. First half he was good. And he does indeed get forward, he has that mobility (Yoshida doesn't). Granted, when he does get forward, he can look a bit Bambi-esque, but he makes up the numbers at least, and is prepared to cross. Yoshida simply hasn't been dependable enough to claim the backup RB spot this season, so I would continue with Martina when Soares is unavailable.

[Stu Man Do]

Not sure where to put this, somebody mentioned this a while ago that would JWP be a worth a shout at RB?

 

Reasons:

1. Hasn't nailed down an exact position yet playing CDM, CAM and out wide before

1. His all round ability is good (not world class to unlock defenses at CAM or to be a destroyer at CDM) so his good technical ability and being comfortable on the ball would shine at RB.

2. Technically being is CM he is used to both attacking and defending

3. Similar to the above about being good defensively - he said he likes CDM so defensively minded

4. Has an excellent cross on him

5. Often runs more than any other player on the pitch so fitness isn't an issue getting back and forth

6. Can't score and RBs aren't expected to score much!

 

Or am I way off? Thoughts?

 

He has been tried there vs Ipswich in the cup last year. He was dreadful and for that reason I'm out.

[van Hanegem]

The lad clearly has potential. The club think so. England think so. Maybe he needs more and intense coaching? Maybe he just needs more time? Maybe I am an eternal optimist but I still think he will turn out to be a quality player for us.

 

Hopefully Martina will succeed in Southampton but that would be against all odds, he never made a good impression in the Eredivisie while playing regularly. And as a Dutchman I know the level of the Eredivisie... I won't eat my clog though when he proves me wrong, I was never impressed with Yoshida too when he played with VVV Venlo and even he gets to play every now and then. I find it unbelievable that the Saints aren't able to deliver homegrown defenders who can compete with guys like Martina and Yoshida. What's wrong at the academy?

[Nordic Saint]

Hopefully Martina will succeed in Southampton but that would be against all odds, he never made a good impression in the Eredivisie while playing regularly. And as a Dutchman I know the level of the Eredivisie... I won't eat my clog though when he proves me wrong, I was never impressed with Yoshida too when he played with VVV Venlo and even he gets to play every now and then. I find it unbelievable that the Saints aren't able to deliver homegrown defenders who can compete with guys like Martina and Yoshida. What's wrong at the academy?

 

The 2 main coaches in the Academy who helped defenders like Luke Shaw and Calum Chambers were Jason Dodd and Paul Williams. They were both sacked.

[van Hanegem]

The 2 main coaches in the Academy who helped defenders like Luke Shaw and Calum Chambers were Jason Dodd and Paul Williams. They were both sacked.

 

Ok, but Yoshida was bought in the time they were still working with the Saints am I right? And what to think of Jos Hooiveld who played regularly a couple of years ago? If the academy wasn't able to deliver that kind of players there really must be something wrong! I find it hard to believe that there aren't any English kids who can reach that level so the Saints wouldn't have to buy mediocre defenders from abroad.

[david in sweden]

Hopefully Martina will succeed in Southampton but that would be against all odds, he never made a good impression in the Eredivisie while playing regularly. And as a Dutchman I know the level of the Eredivisie... I won't eat my clog though when he proves me wrong, I was never impressed with Yoshida too when he played with VVV Venlo and even he gets to play every now and then.

 

I find it unbelievable that the Saints aren't able to deliver homegrown defenders who can compete with guys like Martina and Yoshida. What's wrong at the academy?

Good to hear your evaluation of those Saints who've played in Dutch sides, but not all players turn out well just because they play in "big clubs " .Example Man U.

The number of good players who come through any club's Academy and make it to the first team is very low. Saints have done remarkably well in recent years.

 

Looking at other Prem. clubs the number of players who made it through to the first team is also very low. Goalkeepers, and central defenders are even lower.

If it was just a case of the coach giving players a pill and sending them to bed early we might do better, but not everyone makes it. Don't just blame Saints' Academy.

[brianu]

I think we bought him as an advanced payment on ziyech, so they can look for a replacement. I wouldn't be surprised if we picked him up before the window ends

[Batman]

Right Back is a bit of a problem

Martina is all over the place and Cedric is far from the 8/10 player many here think he is

[van Hanegem]

Good to hear your evaluation of those Saints who've played in Dutch sides, but not all players turn out well just because they play in "big clubs " .Example Man U.

The number of good players who come through any club's Academy and make it to the first team is very low. Saints have done remarkably well in recent years.

 

Looking at other Prem. clubs the number of players who made it through to the first team is also very low. Goalkeepers, and central defenders are even lower.

If it was just a case of the coach giving players a pill and sending them to bed early we might do better, but not everyone makes it. Don't just blame Saints' Academy.

 

I know off course that the academy has delivered some good players and as far as I know it's still the best in England. That's why I don't understand that the Saints picked up some mediocre defenders from the Dutch competition instead of giving their own youth a chance. This happens at many clubs with too much money but in my opinion it should be different with the Saints because of their policy.

[Lets B Avenue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35201660

[van Hanegem]

I think we bought him as an advanced payment on ziyech, so they can look for a replacement. I wouldn't be surprised if we picked him up before the window ends

 

Ziyech is at this moment the best attacking midfielder in the Eredivisie, even better than Tadic was when he played for Twente. But if he's fysically up for the PL? I doubt it...

[Saints foreva]

Poor Cuco. His goal didn't even make Sky Sports top 6 PL goals of 2015.

[Goatboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35201660

 

Crooks could do with his own mega face-palm for his private use:mcinnes:

[Graffito]

Koeman's been coaching him. Take a look at the goal around 45 seconds.

 

[Wade Garrett]

Koeman's been coaching him. Take a look at the goal around 45 seconds.

 

 

What a player he was.

[david in sweden]

I know off course that the academy has delivered some good players and as far as I know it's still the best in England.

That's why I don't understand that the Saints picked up some mediocre defenders from the Dutch competition instead of giving their own youth a chance.

This happens at many clubs with too much money but in my opinion it should be different with the Saints because of their policy.

 

 

Well I think that we've only bought ONE defender from the Dutch League, namely Martina, and he's only been fielded twice in the Prem. so far.

Even without his wonder goal, he didn't do so badly. Our other Dutch defender van Dijk didn't come directly from Eredivisie, and is one of our best signings.

 

The most likely Academy candidates for defensive duties are McCarthy, and Turnbull who are both getting good game-time in L1/L2, and Stephens who unfortunately gets little chance to play in a very good Middlesboro side who are at the top of the Championship. Loan outs are good for a players' development, and the only player who really looked good at " Academy age" was Luke Shaw, who to be fair was quite outstanding and picking him ahead of Danny Fox was a " no-brainer " at the time.

[VectisSaint]

Well I think that we've only bought ONE defender from the Dutch League, namely Martina, and he's only been fielded twice in the Prem. so far.

Even without his wonder goal, he didn't do so badly. Our other Dutch defender van Dijk didn't come directly from Eredivisie, and is one of our best signings.

 

The most likely Academy candidates for defensive duties are McCarthy, and Turnbull who are both getting good game-time in L1/L2, and Stephens who unfortunately gets little chance to play in a very good Middlesboro side who are at the top of the Championship. Loan outs are good for a players' development, and the only player who really looked good at " Academy age" was Luke Shaw, who to be fair was quite outstanding and picking him ahead of Danny Fox was a " no-brainer " at the time.

David. Martina was awful, defensively. His goal and his attacking play were great, but really he is very poor at the defensive side of his game.

The other thing is that Stephens is no longer at Boro, he has been back with us for a while. His loan will presumably be cancelled tomorrow (or whenever transfers can actually be made), until then he cannot play for us. You can see him quite clearly in training videos, he also travelled with the squad to West Ham earlier in the week. Hopefully he is going to be given a chance, although he made hardly any appearances for Boro he did show in the league cup against ManU that he is reasonably good..

[david in sweden]

David.

Martina was awful, defensively. His goal and his attacking play were great, but really he is very poor at the defensive side of his game.

The other thing is that Stephens is no longer at Boro, he has been back with us for a while. His loan will presumably be cancelled tomorrow (or whenever transfers can actually be made), until then he cannot play for us. You can see him quite clearly in training videos, he also travelled with the squad to West Ham earlier in the week. Hopefully he is going to be given a chance, although he made hardly any appearances for Boro he did show in the league cup against ManU that he is reasonably good..

 

Thanks for the update Vectis.....I noticed Stephens was a bench regular a while back, but in all fairness 'Boro seem to be better than they have for several years back, so you can't blame their manager for staying with his " tried and tested " players, so Jack didn't get a look in.

Problem back at SFC is that the U21's have only played about 4 games in the last 3 months, and that's hardly the way for any of them to get into the First team squad. I did see Jack play in the 'Boro cup game v. Man U and he looked quite good.

 

I'm trying to put the memory of that wonder goal out of my mind in assessing Martina, and tbf. we must admit that very few players in the recent past seem to have hit the ground running and needed a run of games to find their feet.

Of course, Martina isn't Prem. class, but until he's responsible for some of the " Yoshida type errors that lead to goals", it's a bit unfair to condemn him straight away.

 

I quite like Yoshida as a CB or LB,( he even has the 3 shirt), but the fact that he only gets picked for RB seriously harms his reputation, as he seems very poor there.

 

I vividly recall that Clyne's first few Prem. games were an absolute nightmare, and he gave away several goals - if not an own goal (?)too.

I don't expect to see Martina vying for the RB spot regularly, but until we see he drops a real clanger - IMO - the jury is still out.

[VectisSaint]

I'm trying to put the memory of that wonder goal out of my mind in assessing Martina, and tbf. we must admit that very few players in the recent past seem to have hit the ground running and needed a run of games to find their feet.

Of course, Martina isn't Prem. class, but until he's responsible for some of the " Yoshida type errors that lead to goals", it's a bit unfair to condemn him straight away.

First goal against West Ham? If you watch the game against Arsenal you will see that he makes Yoshida look positively world class when it comes to defending (which he isn't at RB). He was hopelessly out of position so many time, but Fonte got him out of a hole time and again in the first half. He has played 5 times now, hardly condemning his straight away.

[Goatboy]

First goal against West Ham? If you watch the game against Arsenal you will see that he makes Yoshida look positively world class when it comes to defending (which he isn't at RB). He was hopelessly out of position so many time, but Fonte got him out of a hole time and again in the first half. He has played 5 times now, hardly condemning his straight away.

 

SQ: have you ever played football VectisS?

[david in sweden]

First goal against West Ham? If you watch the game against Arsenal you will see that he makes Yoshida look positively world class when it comes to defending (which he isn't at RB). He was hopelessly out of position so many time, but Fonte got him out of a hole time and again in the first half. He has played 5 times now, hardly condemning his straight away.

 

????? Was Martina solely responsible for WHam's first goal?...I don't think so....and surely it's everyone's job to cover each other-especially in defence.

 

Looking back at the Spurs game, we had three defenders ball-watching, whilst Harry Kane made scoring his goal look like a stroll in the park.

Should we excuse them for that ?... or put it down to bad luck that they all made basic errors that Ronald Koeman called " amateur ".

[VectisSaint]

????? Was Martina solely responsible for WHam's first goal?...I don't think so....and surely it's everyone's job to cover each other-especially in defence.

 

Looking back at the Spurs game, we had three defenders ball-watching, whilst Harry Kane made scoring his goal look like a stroll in the park.

Should we excuse them for that ?... or put it down to bad luck that they all made basic errors that Ronald Koeman called " amateur ".

 

Did I say he was? You said until he makes Yoshida type mistakes, well he did.

[van Hanegem]

Well I think that we've only bought ONE defender from the Dutch League, namely Martina, and he's only been fielded twice in the Prem. so far.

Even without his wonder goal, he didn't do so badly. Our other Dutch defender van Dijk didn't come directly from Eredivisie, and is one of our best signings.

 

The most likely Academy candidates for defensive duties are McCarthy, and Turnbull who are both getting good game-time in L1/L2, and Stephens who unfortunately gets little chance to play in a very good Middlesboro side who are at the top of the Championship. Loan outs are good for a players' development, and the only player who really looked good at " Academy age" was Luke Shaw, who to be fair was quite outstanding and picking him ahead of Danny Fox was a " no-brainer " at the time.

 

Yoshida also came directly from the Eredivisie and even for Dutch standards he was a mediocre defender back then. I thought Hooiveld also went straight from Holland to Southampton but that isn't true, he first went to Finland ans some other Scandinavian countries... You could say Alderweireld came from the Eredivisie also as he seldomly played for Atletico Madrid. Even he wasn't top of the bill in Holland but he did alright for the Saints, hopefully van Dijk will do as well as him.

 

Hopefully the academy will deliver better defenders in the future...

[VectisSaint]

I thought Hooiveld also went straight from Holland to Southampton but that isn't true, he first went to Finland ans some other Scandinavian countries...

Scotland, the well known Scandinavian country (I know he was loaned to Copenhagen but he joined us from Celtic).

[Saints foreva]

 

Anyone who knows how internet polls go will know that Cuco's goal won't even make the top 3.