Nordic Saint Posted 25 December, 2015 Share Posted 25 December, 2015 Getting fed up with the negative bed wetting rubbish our fans are coming out with over one rough patch. I don't remember a single 8-0 or 6-1 win under loch, let alone 2 in the same season. The failing this year has been by the board and the recruitment teams, we haven't replace adequately, lost Toby when he was bloody well texting koeman all summer and didn't buy a single improvement of player quality. Everyone else around us improved. But seriously all, get over yourselves. We still beat Chelsea away, we're having an okay season so far and you have to accept that this is a rebuilding season after 2 years of complete squad refreshing. What we rebuild into is up to the recruitment and scouting team and so far their track record (without koeman's) input is shocking. But the depressive rubbish our fans are spouting on here is clap trap frankly. People forget that under loch we hardly ever won a game from behind, the craps cup sides he out out, nor how bad Tottenham were last year. Even spuds fans were calling for him out this year when they lost to Newcastle. Koeman is fine for us, just hope the board back him and I wish he would give pelle a rest and play long/juanmi for the movement. Saint86 is spot on. The wrong people are getting blamed for the downgrading in quality of the squad. That's not the fault of the manager or the senior players who've stayed and watched their team mates sold off around them. Do you really think they wanted that? They've just had to get on with it and bear the brunt of the unfair criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersubpuckett Posted 25 December, 2015 Share Posted 25 December, 2015 Saint86 is spot on. The wrong people are getting blamed for the downgrading in quality of the squad. That's not the fault of the manager or the senior players who've stayed and watched their team mates sold off around them. Do you really think they wanted that? They've just had to get on with it and bear the brunt of the unfair criticism. wholly agree, except the manager is responsible for making them into a team that play with passion, conviction and determination regardless of what he has to work with - sadly i think koeman has failed here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 25 December, 2015 Share Posted 25 December, 2015 The two are pretty similar . I believe RK is a far better manager than MP RK is here for the right reason mopo wasn't , he just was your normal mercenary type manager We could have made champions league under mopo . He would still have jumped ship . Many of our fans are fickle and I guess I am re mopo . But RK is the type of manager i respect . We have had a blip and in RK I trust . We moan about the players that have left the club but very few of those have not exactly set the world alight with their rest new clubs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 December, 2015 Share Posted 25 December, 2015 The two are pretty similar . I believe RK is a far better manager than MP RK is here for the right reason mopo wasn't , he just was your normal mercenary type manager We could have made champions league under mopo . He would still have jumped ship . Many of our fans are fickle and I guess I am re mopo . But RK is the type of manager i respect . We have had a blip and in RK I trust . We moan about the players that have left the club but very few of those have not exactly set the world alight with their rest new clubs . they are all here for the same reason to further their own careers and ££££ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Getting fed up with the negative bed wetting rubbish our fans are coming out with over one rough patch. I don't remember a single 8-0 or 6-1 win under loch, let alone 2 in the same season. The failing this year has been by the board and the recruitment teams, we haven't replace adequately, lost Toby when he was bloody well texting koeman all summer and didn't buy a single improvement of player quality. Everyone else around us improved. But seriously all, get over yourselves. We still beat Chelsea away, we're having an okay season so far and you have to accept that this is a rebuilding season after 2 years of complete squad refreshing. What we rebuild into is up to the recruitment and scouting team and so far their track record (without koeman's) input is shocking. But the depressive rubbish our fans are spouting on here is clap trap frankly. People forget that under loch we hardly ever won a game from behind, the craps cup sides he out out, nor how bad Tottenham were last year. Even spuds fans were calling for him out this year when they lost to Newcastle. Koeman is fine for us, just hope the board back him and I wish he would give pelle a rest and play long/juanmi for the movement. How long are you going to hold on to the Chelsea win for ? Have you forgotten that almost everybody else has beaten them also ? They were dire and tbh we were not that convincing either . Even on our unbeaten run we were unconvincing . Yes we had two big wins , both those were against teams who self destructed . Under Poch we rarely came back to win ? Under Koeman we don't either so I don't see your point. I'm happy that you seem to think this season is going well , I happen to disagree . I also think Koeman is very much responsible for that Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 How long are you going to hold on to the Chelsea win for ? Have you forgotten that almost everybody else has beaten them also ? They were dire and tbh we were not that convincing either . Even on our unbeaten run we were unconvincing . Yes we had two big wins , both those were against teams who self destructed . Under Poch we rarely came back to win ? Under Koeman we don't either so I don't see your point. I'm happy that you seem to think this season is going well , I happen to disagree . I also think Koeman is very much responsible for that Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Just for clarity..IYO what constitutes a successful season for a team such as Saints? Would just like to under stand your expectations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 A successful season would be us trying our best , competing and being competitive . Turning up and giving 100 percent in every game . Watching players develop into their roles and owning them . Pretty much the opposite to this season . Our place in the league is really irrelevant . We will never be a top 6 team but its nice to have the belief that we are trying for it . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 How long are you going to hold on to the Chelsea win for ? Have you forgotten that almost everybody else has beaten them also ? They were dire and tbh we were not that convincing either . Even on our unbeaten run we were unconvincing . Yes we had two big wins , both those were against teams who self destructed . Under Poch we rarely came back to win ? Under Koeman we don't either so I don't see your point. I'm happy that you seem to think this season is going well , I happen to disagree . I also think Koeman is very much responsible for that Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Chelsea may have been poor but they still have a lot of high quality players and we had to play at the top of our game to beat them. As for Koeman being at fault. We have a decent squad who have showed what they can do earlier in the season. The players need to take responsibility. It is not Koeman's fault when some plays a back pass short or puts a shot over the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Chelsea may have been poor but they still have a lot of high quality players and we had to play at the top of our game to beat them. As for Koeman being at fault. We have a decent squad who have showed what they can do earlier in the season. The players need to take responsibility. It is not Koeman's fault when some plays a back pass short or puts a shot over the bar. Its the managers job to get the best from the squad. To choose the best formation to suit . To choose the players who are in form and hopefully make decisions during the game which produce positive results . To produce the fittest players etc So far this season not a single player has improved . The formations , squad , tactics and substitutions are often bizarre . The fitness appears lacking . We don't have any style . This is all at the feet of Koeman and his chosen coaches . Yes we beat Chelsea and yes they have much better players than us but we were still not convincing. We were still not that good . You can't ignore the team performances in favour of one game . Our squad is better than this . Koeman has failed miserably in his ability to manage this season . Does anyone really believe he is going to make these changes that he mentioned after the Spurs game ? Davis will still pass backwards. Prowse will still produce nothing . Wanyama will still be poor . Pelle will still be rubbish . Mane will still be played out of position etc . I have no faith in Koeman to change our direction . I also find it laughable that fans seem to think we will buy anyone decent in the jan transfer market . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Does anyone really believe he is going to make these changes that he mentioned after the Spurs game ? Davis will still pass backwards. Prowse will still produce nothing . Wanyama will still be poor . Pelle will still be rubbish . Mane will still be played out of position etc . I have no faith in Koeman to change our direction . I also find it laughable that fans seem to think we will buy anyone decent in the jan transfer market . Spot on. We will tweak it today and play well for 20 minutes as a couple of shots will whistle past the post and that's it. I don't expect much in the January window either and Ronald has to lift the players confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Spot on. We will tweak it today and play well for 20 minutes as a couple of shots will whistle past the post and that's it. I don't expect much in the January window either and Ronald has to lift the players confidence. playing well for 20 mins is nothing to hold on to. this is a very competitive league, nearly every game both sides will have spells in the game pelle is a massive factor in us not scoring. Just slow, rubbish attitude, pretty static and does anything but defend from the front he needs chances literally inch perfect most of the time and every now and then, he will play a good game (like chelsea). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Its the managers job to get the best from the squad. To choose the best formation to suit . To choose the players who are in form and hopefully make decisions during the game which produce positive results . To produce the fittest players etc So far this season not a single player has improved . The formations , squad , tactics and substitutions are often bizarre . The fitness appears lacking . We don't have any style . This is all at the feet of Koeman and his chosen coaches . Yes we beat Chelsea and yes they have much better players than us but we were still not convincing. We were still not that good . You can't ignore the team performances in favour of one game . Our squad is better than this . Koeman has failed miserably in his ability to manage this season . Does anyone really believe he is going to make these changes that he mentioned after the Spurs game ? Davis will still pass backwards. Prowse will still produce nothing . Wanyama will still be poor . Pelle will still be rubbish . Mane will still be played out of position etc . I have no faith in Koeman to change our direction . I also find it laughable that fans seem to think we will buy anyone decent in the jan transfer market . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk I really think you are missing the point tbh, koeman lost Morgan, clyne and Toby. One he was great mates with, any got him to the club in the first place and was texting all summer.... Another he was told by the board would be signing a new contract, and Morgan I think he knew was gone... The whole club knew that. So the board lost clyne and got Cedric (who I do rate) and Martina (anyone rate him?) And both are currently not as good as clyne - therefore weaker. We eventually signed VVD as a replacement for Toby, I rate him a lot but Toby is the superior defender and in any case this is a like for like switch and doesn't increase our first 11... We should also be sat here with both right now and happily using Toby as CDM aka morgan! We signed JC who I think us growing into the role a lot and his awareness and passing is top top notch... But he needs this season, especially given injuries. We also lost forster, replaced him with worse... And as above, no Morgan. Opening few months, also no RB at left back. That meant that for the start of the season, we had 1 of last year's back 5 playing and that is horrendous. Nor is it the managers fault and you can't expect him to gel a team together like last year every season..... It is obvious that we are weaker at the back, and the above changes and are weaker CM with the 2midgets (davis/claise/JWP) and wanyama does not do enough (Morgan) defensively. And this should have been Toby, wanyama and claise/davis). The other issue is attack, radix and mane especially are potent outlets, but pelle is not working atm. He also frustrates me so much, I know he has a knock but vs spurs he didn't run, he ****ed and moaned when the ball to him was perfect, we were losing and he wasn't in the box, and he lost the ball all the time or played it behind his runners and stalled the attack. It is like playing with 10men with him atm with him up front. And I think the team feel like this and it is damaging the confidence going forward. I watched the last one vs spurs, and people were moaning at the whole team... Well in my view, fonts should have stopped Kane (especially if he is gonna take a card), the second goal was a foul on Bertrand (and offside) and every player on that pitched worked there socks off except pelle. Our energy levels were good, wingers good, Davis, clasie, Bertrand etc did well... And then it got to pelle and we lost momentum and/or the ball. We were losing at had long and juanmi on, and they were in the 6 yard areas winning headers late on whilst pelle was on the far corner of the 18yard area almost outside the box... From a corner flag cross... It is a joke. The team were doing everything (even had one attack where VVD and fonte were setting each other up by the D) to score... And if we had it would have been in spite of pelle. My only gripe with pelle Is that koeman will not drop him! It has to happen when he is injured or in this form. The other problems like with board/scouting/recruitment teams. We made a profit this summer and didn't strengthen one position... And people are on here blaming koeman.... How many would quit you jobs with that level of consistent undermining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 I really think you are missing the point tbh, koeman lost Morgan, clyne and Toby. One he was great mates with, any got him to the club in the first place and w The other problems like with board/scouting/recruitment teams. We made a profit this summer and didn't strengthen one position... And people are on here blaming koeman.... How many would quit you jobs with that level of consistent undermining. there has been/is plenty about the lack of quality brought in. Even last summer it was mentioned when MLG and this like were telling everyone that we should not be wary of stoke/palace and that saints do it all the right way. however, the RK is not exempt from a bit of questioning given some of the abject performances this season. Notably, in Europe. a team that costs as much a Martina knocked us out!!! that was not good enough in any capacity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 playing well for 20 mins is nothing to hold on to. this is a very competitive league, nearly every game both sides will have spells in the game pelle is a massive factor in us not scoring. Just slow, rubbish attitude, pretty static and does anything but defend from the front he needs chances literally inch perfect most of the time and every now and then, he will play a good game (like chelsea). Yet you watch the meltdown if we were to sell him to a team higher in the league than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Its the managers job to get the best from the squad. To choose the best formation to suit . To choose the players who are in form and hopefully make decisions during the game which produce positive results . To produce the fittest players etc So far this season not a single player has improved . The formations , squad , tactics and substitutions are often bizarre . The fitness appears lacking . We don't have any style . This is all at the feet of Koeman and his chosen coaches . Yes we beat Chelsea and yes they have much better players than us but we were still not convincing. We were still not that good . You can't ignore the team performances in favour of one game . Our squad is better than this . Koeman has failed miserably in his ability to manage this season . Does anyone really believe he is going to make these changes that he mentioned after the Spurs game ? Davis will still pass backwards. Prowse will still produce nothing . Wanyama will still be poor . Pelle will still be rubbish . Mane will still be played out of position etc . I have no faith in Koeman to change our direction . I also find it laughable that fans seem to think we will buy anyone decent in the jan transfer market . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk So last season was a fluke? The unbeaten run of games away from home was a fluke? The 6 game unbeaten run was a fluke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 So last season was a fluke? The unbeaten run of games away from home was a fluke? The 6 game unbeaten run was a fluke? No, last season was last season. It is largely irrelevant to this season. Koeman has not developed/improved/even steadied the team. We lost one key component to how we play and have not replaced. We have not brought anyone in to even maintain where we were. Koeman has also regressed fitness wise. No-one serious is denegrating what Koeman did last year. Its what he has done or failed to do this season that is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 No, last season was last season. It is largely irrelevant to this season. Koeman has not developed/improved/even steadied the team. We lost one key component to how we play and have not replaced. We have not brought anyone in to even maintain where we were. Koeman has also regressed fitness wise. No-one serious is denegrating what Koeman did last year. Its what he has done or failed to do this season that is the problem. Agreed, he raised expectations last season, losing spiderman & clyne ripped the heart out of our team, we had to sell as they wanted to go which is understandable but we should not have sold till we had sufficient replacements lined up, as usual we have gambled on the cheap options and this time it hasnt worked! Koeman seems clueless as to what is wrong or how to change it & makes repeated mistakes, now is the the day for koeman & the team to step up to the challenge! today will see whether the team and koeman has the fight needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.JonB Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 So last season was a fluke? The unbeaten run of games away from home was a fluke? The 6 game unbeaten run was a fluke? I don't know where you get your energy to argue with the moaners on here. The forum is so depressing at the moment. Not many can offer solutions; just pick holes in the manager and players they don't like (same players that were good enough to be involved last year). Anyway lets all try and get behind the team today, and you never know we might surprise a few. COYS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Lots of people keen to apportion 100% of the majority of the blame on any one party. But I think the truth is that the transfers, management of the team, and players themselves have all been sub-par this season and that is why we are suffering. We'll probably finish where we are right now, which would be quite bad considering where we were last summer - but I suppose that depends on your expectations. One thing is for sure, a 12th place finish doesn't convince anyone half decent to stay and that is a rubbish feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Lots of people keen to apportion 100% of the majority of the blame on any one party. But I think the truth is that the transfers, management of the team, and players themselves have all been sub-par this season and that is why we are suffering. We'll probably finish where we are right now, which would be quite bad considering where we were last summer - but I suppose that depends on your expectations. One thing is for sure, a 12th place finish doesn't convince anyone half decent to stay and that is a rubbish feeling. TBF 7th and 8th place finishes didn't convince anyone to stay either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 TBF 7th and 8th place finishes didn't convince anyone to stay either... But the idea was if we couldn't hold onto our better players then we would continue to invest in good players to maintain our position. We would sell high and invest wisely using whatever metrics our recruitment team do in order to maintain our position and eventually the tide would turn and we could push on. Only, that didn't really happen his summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 I think tonight vindicates my comments about playing long, mane, juanmi up front (even Martina) rather than pelle. Without pelle we are dangerous, fast tempo, great movement etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Fickle football fans being fickle. Shocker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 But the idea was if we couldn't hold onto our better players then we would continue to invest in good players to maintain our position. We would sell high and invest wisely using whatever metrics our recruitment team do in order to maintain our position and eventually the tide would turn and we could push on. Only, that didn't really happen his summer. I don't think that idea is going to be impacted either way if we finish eighth or twelfth to be honest. It wouldn't stop us signing the likes of Tadic, Virgil or Clasie. We signed Vic and Lovren after finishing 14th. Whoever we sign or keep next season will go again with an aspiration to be there if the big clubs fail, a la Leicester and a la us last year, but generally try and be the best of the other 14. Sometimes we will do it, sometimes we won't. But what won't be happening is a "tide turn" where we take our place amongst the elite. It isn't going to happen under our current ownership and structure and that's absolutely fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 I think tonight vindicates my comments about playing long, mane, juanmi up front (even Martina) rather than pelle. Without pelle we are dangerous, fast tempo, great movement etc. Long was perfect for this game with Arsenal's high line playing into his hands, but against deeper teams we need Pelle's hold up play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 26 December, 2015 Share Posted 26 December, 2015 Long was perfect for this game with Arsenal's high line playing into his hands, but against deeper teams we need Pelle's hold up play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 28 December, 2015 Share Posted 28 December, 2015 Looks like koeman identified the main issue with the team recently and worked on it.. Long also revealed how a more light-hearted approach to training from Koeman helped Saints’ kick-start their stuttering season. He said: “We’ve had a few meetings and try to get our confidence back in training. “The gaffer made it a bit more fun this week, had the lads joking and you could see the results of that today." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 28 December, 2015 Share Posted 28 December, 2015 We know that you think Pelle is rubbish Batman but not everyone has the same opinion, including the manager apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 28 December, 2015 Share Posted 28 December, 2015 Looks like koeman identified the main issue with the team recently and worked on it.. Long also revealed how a more light-hearted approach to training from Koeman helped Saints’ kick-start their stuttering season. He said: “We’ve had a few meetings and try to get our confidence back in training. “The gaffer made it a bit more fun this week, had the lads joking and you could see the results of that today." Ah, but Koeman is a rubbish manager though isn't he who has lost the plot? We cant have you posting anything positive like this on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 28 December, 2015 Share Posted 28 December, 2015 We know that you think Pelle is rubbish Batman but not everyone has the same opinion, including the manager apparently. Tbh I don't think the bloke likes anything saints as he rarely has a good word for anything or anyone and hates Pelle with a vengeance....top fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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