Constructive Solutions

[Andy Durman]

Let's have a thread that develops positive ideas on how we can overcome our recent run of bad form

 

Remember try and use words that are not negative.

 

It's important that we maximize the potential of our existing players.

 

As fans we need to get behind the team and be the twelfth man.

[Batman]

Higher tempo and look to get the ball forward quicker

 

Play without pelle. He is slow and offers little movement.

 

Get mane central

 

Improve the fitness of the side, which may result in point 1 being possible beyond the first 20 mins

 

Sign a striker and a better right back. Who will immediately start in the first 11

 

Cedric is no way an 8/10 player as many stated. He can't defend the back stick

Edited 20 December, 2015 by Batman

[Dalek2003]

Higher tempo and look to get the ball forward quicker

 

Play without pelle. He is slow and offers little movement.

 

Get mane central

 

Improve the fitness of the side, which may result in point 1 being possible beyond the first 20 mins

 

Sign a striker and a better right back. Who will immediately start in the first 11

 

Cedric is no way an 8/10 player as many stated. He can't defend the back stick

 

More or less agree with this. I think it really is worth a punt on Charlie Austin. I also think Forster will make a difference back in goal. Not sure how close he is to returning.

[Delboy Dave]

Easier said than done having lost Morgan in particular, but just play like we did last year, it was effective and worked, however clearly not as easy without someone as vital as Morgan

[Shroppie]

With Wanyama playing as he is at the moment, and Morgan gone, we have no bite in central midfield. Clasie can find a decent pass but isn't a ball-winner.

 

Give Reed and/or Romeu a chance.

 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

[sandwichsaint]

Drop VW, a large part of where we are, we've never recovered from him effing over our Europa effort and why people still sing his name is a bit of a mystery, tho noticably fewer in the last couple of games (A1 5hithead who thinks he's better than our club and has no respect for the shirt or the fans). We can manage with Romeu/Clasie/JWP if we have to, sell VW for anything north of 7m, if not let him stay in the u21's till the last day of the Sept window next year).

 

Shooting practice and lots of it for all our strikers/midfielders. Over and over and over, nothing but striking the ball cleanly and accurately to a defined target rather than a vague area.

 

Pick a settled back four and school them hour after hour after hour on their shape and role in possession and out of possession, they've been a shambles all season. Sort Bertrand's head out, does he want to go now, six months, twelve months? If we sort that out he would be like a decent new signing, if we can't sort his head out get rid, would be good money and he would be replaceable with the sort of money we'd get. Tell VVD to get back to basics now, he doesn't value his clean sheet anything like enough, plays like he just wants to play football like a kid would, (PlayStation defender!) it's great to watch but he's not currently in the right team or place to do that, much more discipline needed.

 

Tin hat time, I'd play Yoshida over Fonte for the next six games, Jose's been a total legend but it's just not happening for him at the moment, seems to have lost all his authority and leadership, doesn't look fit, making way more mistakes than we're used to.

 

Midfield would be improved massively if we played Romeu and Clasie, both can pass and we would immediately have better possession and fd momentum with those too rather than VW.

 

We desperately need a new striker , we prob need another 20-plus goals to stay up, add together our current attackers' scoring rates and they don't make 20! Although nothing to say we can't improve what we have, one positive is we create 2 or 3 clear cut chances a game and we 'should' be able to convert them.

 

Positives you wanted?

 

Gazza looking a decent back up and possibly Forster to return

VVD clearly a good player who should be improving quickly under RK's tutelage

Clasie starting to play a bit

Tadic has been pretty consistent

Crowd good for a long time yesterday

 

 

Happy Christmas everybody!

[Cabrone]

Work on their psychology, they seem to give up before the final whistle and consequently hand the points over on a plate.

 

When Leicester came down they went 2 down but never gave up right till the end and got their deserved point.

 

We also do need a goal scorer, Austin is the obvious choice but there may be others. We are too reliant on Graziano and he's buckling a bit.

[Saint Billy]

Spend money in January.

[S-Clarke]

I'd go with Romeu in midfield most weeks, I'm not sure why he dropped out as he was great for us at the start of the season. Wanyama has been absolute pants, but I'd put him alongside Romeu so he has a bit more physical cover in there.

 

Mane is our best player, so I'd just give him the freedom of the attack. Left, right, central....let him go where he feels he can cause damage and let him find the space. I hate it when he's stuck out wide as he struggles to get into the game, but when he's got a bit of freedom you see him popping up all over the show.

 

I know a lot is being made of our poor form, but that's all it is. We're not a bad side, we're better than a lot in this league. Spending money is always called upon when teams are struggling, but how often does that approach actually work? I'm not one for panic buying. Maybe we'll get an another attacking player, but we do have the tools here already - they just need to get out of their collective slumps.

 

Look at Bertrand for example - he's really struggling at the moment, you have to wonder how a lack of a full pre-season is affecting him. His form has been pretty poor these last few weeks.

[Saint Charlie]

1. Play Mane central every time

 

2. Get Forster back once he is able to as will give players and fans a lift

 

3. Make a Jan signing to lift the club

 

4. Hope in the next couple of games we can grind out a result and end the bad run.

 

(I really don't think any of the players not in the lineup are any better than those who are, which is part of the problem really. Many advocating Romeu but he was guilty of not tracking Cabaye last week....)

[DuncanRG]

Koeman's right about the mentality. We have good players who are bent out of shape at the moment, who aren't aggressive or confident enough in their own abilities. We created some good chances yesterday but nobody seems to back themselves to take them.

 

So the constructive thing to do is get them fired up, get them to go at Arsenal like we did Spurs in the opening phases and maintain our intensity.

 

I don't believe the team needs major surgery in January, though a strong, exciting signing could give everyone a lift.

Edited 20 December, 2015 by DuncanRG

[eelpie]

More or less agree with this. I think it really is worth a punt on Charlie Austin. I also think Forster will make a difference back in goal. Not sure how close he is to returning.

 

I agree. Charlie Austin has become an essential now, more so since it is possible Pelle will be off. Don't wait for that to happen and panic to find a replacement.

 

And QPR aren't going to be promoted.

 

Who else is there?

(If Pelle doesn't go, with Austin we have competition and positive choices upfront.)

[whelk]

The same Charlie Austin who said he isn't going anywhere in Jan?

[Dalek2003]

Koeman's right about the mentality. We have good players who are bent out of shape at the moment, who aren't aggressive or confident enough in their own abilities. We created some good chances yesterday but nobody seems to back themselves to to take them.

 

So the constructive thing to do is get them fired up, get them to go at Arsenal like we did Spurs in the opening phases and maintain our intensity.

 

I don't believe the team needs major surgery in January, though a strong, exciting signing could give everyone a lift.

 

It's possible that the whole club has been lulled into complacency and have begun believing in their own hype from last year. The thing is, that every season everyone starts from the same point and as some of the bigger clubs have found out everyone wants to secure their EPL status.

RK has hinted that expectations were unrealistic and I would imagine that goes for the fans who have become used to winning with ease. The more perceptive of us warned of this at the start of the season.

Thankfully, a great majority of fans have now woken up to the dangers of relegation. RK now needs to shake up the players. I am sure he was aware of the dangers, at the start of the season, but people did not want to believe him. I know the feeling.

[ART]

Could do worse than move Soares into midfield together with Romeu or Reed and play Maya Fonte VVD at the back.

[S-Clarke]

Could do worse than move Soares into midfield together with Romeu or Reed and play Maya Fonte VVD at the back.

 

You probably couldn't do worse, to be honest.

 

Maybe Pelle at CB?

[shurlock]

You probably couldn't do worse, to be honest.

 

Maybe Pelle at CB?

 

Frankly Soares would make a better right-sided midfielder than a fullback.

[Andy Durman]

So my point was let's make a positive thread of solutions, without negativity.

 

Read through again. It's hard to maintain a positive attitude, when you're on a downward slide.

 

Hard not to criticize and point fingers.

 

How do we get the best out of VW or Bertrand?

 

Saints need to go back and do what Saints do best.

 

Lallana, Schneiderlin and others became excellent players because we played them week in and week out.

 

JWP must play every game. Taggart needs to replace Bertrand whose not looked himself recently.

 

Reed? Why not reed?

[Dark Munster]

A year ago at this time we needed to buy quality ruthless striker. (Also a good back up GK). If we had done so we may have finished top 4, and held on to Toby (and possibly Morgan).

 

Anyway, that's history, back to the present. We need to buy quality ruthless striker.

[Mr Biscuits]

Score some f*cking goals.

Stop p!ssing about with it in midfield

Get hungry for the ball - do not allow the opposition to have it for long. Kill every play they make

Drop anyone who doesn't put in110% in a saints shirt

[ally_uk]

Here is what I would do:

 

Sell Wanyama head is elsewhere get rid.... Do a Part exchange for Andros.

Bring in competition for Pelle.

Bring in right back cover.

recall and give youth a run out introduce Seager

Against weaker opposistion.

[sandwichsaint]

Here is what I would do:

 

Sell Wanyama head is elsewhere get rid.... Do a Part exchange for Andros.

Bring in competition for Pelle.

Bring in right back cover.

recall and give youth a run out introduce Seager

Against weaker opposistion.

 

Not a bad plan ,but who would you consider 'weaker opposition'? We've played four Euro games, we're out of the league cup,we have Palace in the FA cup, not too much room for experimentation from here on....

[Roger]

So my point was let's make a positive thread of solutions, without negativity.

 

Read through again. It's hard to maintain a positive attitude, when you're on a downward slide.

 

Hard not to criticize and point fingers.

 

How do we get the best out of VW or Bertrand?

 

Saints need to go back and do what Saints do best.

 

Lallana, Schneiderlin and others became excellent players because we played them week in and week out.

 

JWP must play every game. Taggart needs to replace Bertrand whose not looked himself recently.

 

Reed? Why not reed?

 

Morgan didn't actually for ages. But I couldn't disagree with you more tbh. Think jwp is very lucky to have had the chances he has considering his performances.

[HKsaint]

We cannot score when they sit back. Every team knows the trick and sits back when playing with us, even spur. We can only score in our counter-attack.

 

Any solution?

[MarkSFC]

Get rid of VW, looks lost, and seems to be out of position far too much. Get in Austin, Townsend and another CM. Or even another CB and see whether VVD can be DCM. Get Byram in.

[Red]

So my point was let's make a positive thread of solutions, without negativity.

 

Read through again. It's hard to maintain a positive attitude, when you're on a downward slide.

 

Hard not to criticize and point fingers.

 

How do we get the best out of VW or Bertrand?

 

Saints need to go back and do what Saints do best.

 

Lallana, Schneiderlin and others became excellent players because we played them week in and week out.

 

JWP must play every game. Taggart needs to replace Bertrand whose not looked himself recently.

 

Reed? Why not reed?

 

Let's face it, we are in p**s poor form currently, and in response to OP's question - it is totally down to player confidence and motivation. We were great (relatively) early on in the season with the same players, so it is not lack of good players or system etc. My view (and only my view and have said it before), is that RK asked the board for some serious investment in Jan, and they said no, so he cannot improve the project. He has openly stated he will only renew his contract if we are progressing (which currently we are clearly not). Ergo, RK will leave at the end of his contract and players know this so can't be arsed!

 

IMHO the vision/dream RK was sold is gone - there is no longer "The Southampton Way" - just maximise the profits! Well not being in the PL next year will certainly help - NOT!

[MAY-Z]

I will put my thoughts on here as opposed to the million ...insert name here... is the worst player/manager/board member etc. to ever be involved in professional football.

 

for me 2 things need to happen

 

1) Pelle needs some support, so often we just lump the ball towards him and he isolated against multiple defenders, I saw on some threads he was being criticised for not going at every header, but even if he did win some there is no one to take advantage of these. so for this Mane needs to come in more centrally and either play as a front 2 or at very worst just in behind Pelle.

 

2) we need to tweak the formation - Soares' main strength from what we have seen so far is his crossing so lets get him and Bertrand more advanced and play a back 3 Yoshida will have to come in as the 3rd CB then we can play effectively a midfield 4 of Bertrand - Wanyama (form and attitude pending) - Romeu - Soares. Then we would have the option mixing how our front 3 set up depending on opponent and state of game starting with maybe Classie just then having Pelle and Mane up front.

 

Using this formation should still give us good width with Bertrand and Soares going forward, keeps Mane in more dangerous areas and gives Pelle some support.

[redkeith]

Against a packed defence, which we seem to get inmost home games, I would like to see VVD make more of his forward runs, with one of the DM's dropping back alongside Fonte to keep our shape.

 

Other than Mane, and Tadic he is the only player how likes to take players on.

 

Also, for the rest of the season we need to either make up with Ramirez, or ship him out for another creative player with an eye for a pass. Mane has to come far to deep sometimes to get the ball and is then face with 2 banks of players in between him and the goal.

[david in sweden]

Good idea from OP Andy, and I'm not normally a major critic ......so I'll be careful..

 

THE QUESTIONS:

Wanyama....might be happier somewhere else. Whatever it was that he CDFU ...has been done already. Take the money and run.

 

Pelle.....I like him (as a personality) but he has to score more regularly and Koeman must surely re-evaluate his performances, and find someone else PDQ.

 

Mané. (like MLT) to some extent...is a "one-off player". On his day, he's unbeatable, but he must be utilised in his best role - at present that's not happening.

 

 

ANSWERS:

Our defenders must primarily DEFEND: " Wing-backs " called (overlapping full backs in my day)...look exciting, but they rarely produce goals.

Bertrand and van Dijk are excellent defenders that must be their priority. Fonte is on the verge of Legend status (and I don't use that word lightly), but 32 is past the crossroads in some careers and unless he gets a few MoM ratings, we need to look out a replacement. Yoshida can be good (when played at CB -but never as a RB)

IMO .. Cedric is improving aat RB - but not everyone agrees on that.

 

JWP is the "great youth hope", and Clasie is RK's favourite midfielder....play them for the rest of the season...if it doesn't improve, neither of them has a long-term future.

 

Finally - A new striker. Austin (or an old fashioned crash-bang CF), might not last another 3 years, but short term we need goals until Jay Rod can get back to whatever is his best form..or he'll need to be replaced.

 

This is yet another season for "re-structuring ". No Euro place, most likely no big FA Cup run, either. Cement a good middle Prem. finish - avoiding the bottom six.

Edited 21 December, 2015 by david in sweden

[Mr X]

Score some f*cking goals.

Stop p!ssing about with it in midfield

Get hungry for the ball - do not allow the opposition to have it for long. Kill every play they make

Drop anyone who doesn't put in110% in a saints shirt

 

If we did that at the moment bar one or two exceptions we wouldn't have a team to put out!

[Mr X]

I will put my thoughts on here as opposed to the million ...insert name here... is the worst player/manager/board member etc. to ever be involved in professional football.

 

for me 2 things need to happen

 

1) Pelle needs some support, so often we just lump the ball towards him and he isolated against multiple defenders, I saw on some threads he was being criticised for not going at every header, but even if he did win some there is no one to take advantage of these. so for this Mane needs to come in more centrally and either play as a front 2 or at very worst just in behind Pelle.

 

2) we need to tweak the formation - Soares' main strength from what we have seen so far is his crossing so lets get him and Bertrand more advanced and play a back 3 Yoshida will have to come in as the 3rd CB then we can play effectively a midfield 4 of Bertrand - Wanyama (form and attitude pending) - Romeu - Soares. Then we would have the option mixing how our front 3 set up depending on opponent and state of game starting with maybe Classie just then having Pelle and Mane up front.

 

Using this formation should still give us good width with Bertrand and Soares going forward, keeps Mane in more dangerous areas and gives Pelle some support.

 

All of this isn't rocket science, if you can see it why can't Koeman? That's what's worrying he cant see his own obvious mistakes

[Donatello]

We cannot score when they sit back. Every team knows the trick and sits back when playing with us, even spur. We can only score in our counter-attack.

 

Any solution?

 

Set pieces. It ain't pretty, but VVD (in particular) attacking JWP crosses (from corners/free kicks) seems to be effectual.

[saintbenny]

How about dropping Pelle and changing the formation a little? Let's give Mane and Juanmi a chance up top? Can it really be worse?

 

A midfield of Davis, Classie, Romeu and Tadic

[Gingeletiss]

1-3-4-2-1 with Juanmi and Mane as the two behind Pele, Sores and Bertrand as the wingbacks, with Romeu and Classie as the holding two, three CB's and GK.....sorted.

[Hodgey]

Positive actions:

1) Wanyama. Give clear instructions to sit in front of back 4 and give them protection, and pass it simple, rather than get frustrated and rampage fwd and give the ball away. Tell him if he does this well more teams will want him for the price we want and he'll get his transfer wish in the summer - if not we'll keep him here for another year.

2) Extra training on crossing on the run. The amount of times one of our wingers / full backs hoofs it all the way to the other touchline is unbelievable, this must be affecting Pelle's attitude of bothering to make runs in the box when 9 times out of 10 the ball is miles over his head

3) Get a decent sports psychologist in to stop them giving up when they conceed - if they have been outplaying a team previously and creating chances, logic suggests if they keep doing it then it will work.

4) Get Mane playing just off Pelle

5) Get Townsend in on loan so we actually have a right winger at the club rather than pushing Mane or Tadic out there - they are miles better central / left.

6) Find a midfielder (internal or external) who can help control our pace. This has been the biggest loss of Spiderman - someone who understands when to buy a foul, make a foul, slow down play with a square ball or try moving it forwards quicker etc. None of our midfielders currently seem to have the first clue here - hence the lack of game management and flitting from excellent to terrible in the space of 5 minutes.

7) Never play 3 at the back again, and contemplate 4-4-2 instead.

 

We should be OK this season. It's not like when we went down where aside from Phillips and Crouch Prem teams were not bothered about our players. Wanyama, Tadic, Pelle, Ward-Prowse, Forster, Bertrand, VVD, Mane would have a decent pick of Prem clubs straight away - so if we have 8 Prem players then we should be comfortably mid-table.

[DuncanRG]

We should be OK this season. It's not like when we went down where aside from Phillips and Crouch Prem teams were not bothered about our players. Wanyama, Tadic, Pelle, Ward-Prowse, Forster, Bertrand, VVD, Mane would have a decent pick of Prem clubs straight away - so if we have 8 Prem players then we should be comfortably mid-table.

 

We have about 20 Premiership players, and don't let a poor run of form trick you into thinking otherwise.

[Hodgey]

Thanks DuncanRG - don't disagree we have more but others would so I tried to point out the ones where I feel there is no debate (ie those guys would get into multiple Prem teams as opposed to the bottom 3)

[Maggie May]

Getting Aaron Martin back in January would be a good start.

[Saint Charlie]

Getting Aaron Martin back in January would be a good start.

Jake Thomson also. Much better RB defensively than Cedric and knows English football.

[shurlock]

Jake Thomson also. Much better RB defensively than Cedric and knows English football.

 

Lloyd James and Jake Thomson

 

#rightsidesewnup

[david in sweden]

Jake Thomson also[/b]. Much better RB defensively than Cedric and knows English football.

 

??????....but at what level ?....who does he play for nowadays?....and Lloyd James has been playing in L1.

[Wrensup]

??????....but at what level ?....who does he play for nowadays?....and Lloyd James has been playing in L1.

 

Bognor Regis Town F.C Apparently

[david in sweden]

Bognor Regis Town F.C Apparently

 

Oh...thanks for the update Wrensup. Bognor must play in some league below National League South, obviously he's a perfect candidiate to play in The Prem.

 

....anyone have any more " constructive solutions ".

[austsaint]

Getting Aaron Martin back in January would be a good start.

 

Perhaps Olly Lancashire could return with him to shore up our defence !!!!!

[austsaint]

Positive actions:

1) Wanyama. Give clear instructions to sit in front of back 4 and give them protection, and pass it simple, rather than get frustrated and rampage fwd and give the ball away. Tell him if he does this well more teams will want him for the price we want and he'll get his transfer wish in the summer - if not we'll keep him here for another year.

2) Extra training on crossing on the run. The amount of times one of our wingers / full backs hoofs it all the way to the other touchline is unbelievable, this must be affecting Pelle's attitude of bothering to make runs in the box when 9 times out of 10 the ball is miles over his head

3) Get a decent sports psychologist in to stop them giving up when they conceed - if they have been outplaying a team previously and creating chances, logic suggests if they keep doing it then it will work.

4) Get Mane playing just off Pelle

5) Get Townsend in on loan so we actually have a right winger at the club rather than pushing Mane or Tadic out there - they are miles better central / left.

6) Find a midfielder (internal or external) who can help control our pace. This has been the biggest loss of Spiderman - someone who understands when to buy a foul, make a foul, slow down play with a square ball or try moving it forwards quicker etc. None of our midfielders currently seem to have the first clue here - hence the lack of game management and flitting from excellent to terrible in the space of 5 minutes.

7) Never play 3 at the back again, and contemplate 4-4-2 instead.

 

We should be OK this season. It's not like when we went down where aside from Phillips and Crouch Prem teams were not bothered about our players. Wanyama, Tadic, Pelle, Ward-Prowse, Forster, Bertrand, VVD, Mane would have a decent pick of Prem clubs straight away - so if we have 8 Prem players then we should be comfortably mid-table.

 

Hodgey, I'd be interested to know which Prem Clubs you think might come in for Ward-Prowse?

[Alanh]

Positive actions:

...

6) Find a midfielder (internal or external) who can help control our pace. This has been the biggest loss of Spiderman - someone who understands when to buy a foul, make a foul, slow down play with a square ball or try moving it forwards quicker etc. None of our midfielders currently seem to have the first clue here - hence the lack of game management and flitting from excellent to terrible in the space of 5 minutes.

...

The loss of Morgan has been the biggest issue we have faced in the last two seasons. He allowed us to control midfield and with it retain possession, build attacks at the pace we wanted and recover possession when we lost it. Hi influence helped protect the defence and gave attackers the freedom to be creative given our confidence in getting the ball back if they lost it. Clasie might become the replacement for Morgan in time, Romeu won't as he is there to replace / stand in for Wanyama (who incidentally looks a shadow of the player he was last season precisely because he isn't playing next to Morgan). One of the consequences of us not controlling possession in midfield is the long lump forward to Pelle which we have seen about twice as much this season as last.

 

As far a constructive solutions goes - look around for another player who might be close to a straight Morgan replacement. I don't know who that is so it might have to be a case of giving Clasie time to develop into that player and in the meantime play a different system.

[Kingsland Red]

Oh...thanks for the update Wrensup. Bognor must play in some league below National League South, obviously he's a perfect candidiate to play in The Prem.

 

....anyone have any more " constructive solutions ".

 

As you asked, I always liked the way Olivier Bernard could be selected at left back but spend most of the game in the centre circle. In fact add Callum Davenport and Jamie 'my legs last 20 minutes' Redknapp and we have a team geared for relegation.

We are currently much better than that.

[sadoldgit]

Hodgey, I'd be interested to know which Prem Clubs you think might come in for Ward-Prowse?

 

There was a story that Citeh were interested in him a few months ago!

[Batman]

There was a story that Citeh were interested in him a few months ago!

 

A few months ago?

 

Link please

[sadoldgit]

I mentioned it at the time on here. It might even have been in the summer but I really cant be bothered to go and find it. You will just have to believe me or not.