Dig Dig Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Agree that Koeman can't do much at the moment. There is no scope for much change as there is no competition for places and not enough flexibility for formation changes. This whole season has been a struggle for him so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 If anyone tells us all again that long is what you get for £12m.... They need to take their head for a number 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarakka Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Dear Santa, all I hope for this year is that Saints win a game. Regards, Jarakka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Oh. And pelle is an absolute cart-horse. A big reason why we are slow and blunt in attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 If anyone tells us all again that long is what you get for £12m.... They need to take their head for a number 2 Tbf to Long he never cost us the game today and how often has he played in the main strikers position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Agree that Koeman can't do much at the moment. There is no scope for much change as there is no competition for places and not enough flexibility for formation changes. This whole season has been a struggle for him so far. If he can't do much then he should step aside and make way for someone who can. Since he's been here we have spent in the region of 130 million £, if you can't make a workable squad for that sort of money you need to p*ss off and leave it to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Tbf to Long he never cost us the game today and how often has he played in the main strikers position? Fair point. That is because pelle is never ever dropped or replaced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Koeman had a great gameplan. This one is absolutely not on him. He puts Davis as an attacking right midfielder to protect Cedric. But it wasen't enough. Cedric defended like a ten year old. He has good tackes sparingly but just no defending IQ. Let's face it, he is not mentally prepared for this, just doesen't have a clue, he switches off and players make runs behind him all the time. He couldn't track Alli all game, come on! He should play as a winger, he is no RB. He has the technique and the crossing ability, maybe not enough pace but he is not a defender. Get someone who can actually do it. Great idea to play Mane as a shadow striker behind Pelle. Tadic once again doing all the playmaking, he sets up Mane but Sadio did everything right today but the finish. Mane was the MOM, he proved a point. Great effort. The high press was working too, and that kind of game suits Clasie who had also had a good game. Cedric was horrible but what about Pelle? Was he unfit? That was one of the worse games since he came to the team. The plan of him being the feeding through balls just isn't working. Get in behind, make runs, make the life difficult to the oposing FB. They will take looking him passing the ball 30 yards away from the goal all day. VVD just too frustrated out there, not thinking properly. This is the third stright poor game he is had. Bertrand and Fonte, just average. Only if Long did ANYTHING to deserve a start it would be something different. But what does Koeman have to do? Where is his fault on this one? His plan was working, the high pressure, Mane making runs, Tadic feeding him. Just lacked the finish and in the other end they just defend soo poorly that it's embarrasing. Koeman has made a lot of mistakes but this one he is off the hook, the players lose this match. Especially the second goal when they just switch off, they go "here we go again", no determination. They feel sorry for themselves and start looking how Tottenham score without even breaking a sweat. It's time to bring in a quality Striker and a proper RB. Time to splash the chash. Agree with a lot of that. Biggest problem is confidence is low and when the first goal went in, and we hadn't been playing badly, heads dropped. Wanyama isn't at the races and that is having an effect through the team. Time to play Romeu with Clasie. Don't accept that anyone else played that badly today: we just didn't get a break, partly because we've become tentative instead of confident, and there were two moments of panic defending that led to two goals. Something we would not have seen last season. The bad spell won't finish yet, but we'll recover with one game where we get a break or two (and an unbiased ref) and score a goal ie two. But right now I'll settle for 17th. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Oh. And pelle is an absolute cart-horse. A big reason why we are slow and blunt in attack. And he was being touted as the best lone striker in the league at the beginning of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 (edited) We were on top for the first 15 minutes or so and if Mane had scored it might have been a different outcome, after 20 minutes it all went downhill poor passing and to be honest I think VW has got one of the worst first touches I have ever seen and IMO I think MS carried him. Edited 19 December, 2015 by Toomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 The team spirit was sold off in those 2 transfer windows. My concern isn't the players it's the way we play. It is just so dull and tedious to watch. Launch it to Pelle, rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 And he was being touted as the best lone striker in the league at the beginning of the season Reckon he will score a maximum of 5 more goals by the end of the season. But his all round game is poor, slow and with a gash attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Based on what? Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Such a shame after last season but you can't keep selling your best players and expect improvement. We've gone so far backwards and still plenty on this forum have their heads in the sand. It isn't good enough. Bang on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 We just seem to completely lose our mojo at certain times of the season , we're either playing well or awful ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 We are the very definition of a team misfiring and in a bit of a slump. Pelle hasn't scored in the PL since 1st November. Mane hasn't scored for nearly 2 months. Long has got 1 goal in that time. J Rod misfired before getting injured. Still 12th though, so it's not all doom and gloom. But it's starting to look like a re-think up front is in need, our current 3 options just aren't doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 We are the very definition of a team misfiring and in a bit of a slump. Pelle hasn't scored in the PL since 1st November. Mane hasn't scored for nearly 2 months. Long has got 1 goal in that time. J Rod misfired before getting injured. Still 12th though, so it's not all doom and gloom. But it's starting to look like a re-think up front is in need, our current 3 options just aren't doing it. And the sad thing about all of that is that it's not really for want of chances. Kane showed Mané what you need to do to slot the ball away today. Mané is far too perso, he wants to do it all himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gammon cheeks Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Just shows what a decent manager can do surely, a manager we should have employed to boot. Between Ranieri and Koeman there is absolutely no contest. Would Ranieri do any better with a club that keeps selling its best players for topdollar and replaces them with cheap replacements ....I think not! Need a winger ,striker and right back in my opinion ., Thought Fonte looked pretty poor today and our attacking 3 of Pelle , mane and Tadic are in poor form ..What do we do moan and winge or get behind the team? we have been in worse positions than this and come through but we do need to spend in jan.. .we have the cash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Reckon he will score a maximum of 5 more goals by the end of the season. But his all round game is poor, slow and with a gash attitude What ive said in my latest comment could be applied to him , hes either winning everything bullying the defence and making space for Mane or everything bounces off him hes static and throwing his arms about ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Charlie Austin is there to be had. A must IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Still 12th though, so it's not all doom and gloom. But it's starting to look like a re-think up front is in need, our current 3 options just aren't doing it. Still 12th but the team in 17th are only 4 points behind us and we have two tough games to come now. If we get say 1 point from those then we will be easily 15th or 16th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Charlie Austin is there to be had. A must IMO He won't be leaving in January as he said after the Brighton game. We need 3 players in January - CM, winger and a mobile CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Didn't see the game but just seen the goals on the replay. Cedric clearly at fault for both. Far too weak in defence (I realise VVD also made a howler but that's pretty much his first major mistake since joining - Cedric seems to make one mistake per game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Charlie Austin is there to be had. A must IMO Not financially. He will be a free agent in the summer so will want to wind his contract down to maximise earnings when he signs for someone on a free. Plus I doubt we would want him and Pelle on our books as could never play with both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 12th at Christmas last year? Aston Villa. So we're relegated next season, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Didn't see the game but just seen the goals on the replay. Cedric clearly at fault for both. Far too weak in defence (I realise VVD also made a howler but that's pretty much his first major mistake since joining - Cedric seems to make one mistake per game). He struggles with defending which is a bit of a problem for a full back. Also only tends to grt forward to good effect when playing with Tadic who is excellent at linking with his full back. Another signing who has potentially but isn't suited to week in week out PL football at this stage. Unfortunately we have a few from this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1976.4.38 Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 the mojo has gone,once the best players are sold over the last couple of seasons,the team spirit must suffer,and the replacements will need time, consolidate this season,and with a couple of buys,regroup and push on next season, coz we aint going to win **** all this season. anyway my sons back from his navy training,so win or lose at wet spam,we're on the booze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 We need a shake up with the starting 11 for the next match, and major investment in the January window with two or three quality signings in key positions, and perhaps an experienced loan (or two) as insurance. Not hopeful we will get either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 I don't know what is more depressing, the actual defeat or the thought that Dalek and Alpine will be all over this message board shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 coz we aint going to win **** all this season. Disagree. No chance of us winning a cup in this form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 I do agree here. Especially with the Prem money next season. We must remember that this is only our 4th season. Also- top 4 is a 5 year project right- so let's not judge it because we haven't got there yet- 10+ years of Prem would be nice. Football changes within a season easily. But it's absolutely impossible with the way the club is run. The fact is we sell our best players, if that's the strategy, fine. But for Les Reed to say the aim is still Champions League is just ridiculous. It's just frustrating that all the talk isn't backed up by showing some balls in the transfer market, in terms of both buying and selling. We are having a bit of a crisis, but it's to be expected. No need to panic just yet, but the next few fixtures are worrying, as is the lack of goals in this team. Maybe Koeman is starting to run out of ideas. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 merry Christmas indeed! Underspending, poor defending, no goals, a lack of confidence, players with heads elsewhere, premature European and capital one cup exit, no regular youth in first team and sky high fan expectations ! Still, could be worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 merry Christmas indeed! Underspending, poor defending, no goals, a lack of confidence, players with heads elsewhere, premature European and capital one cup exit, no regular youth in first team and sky high fan expectations ! Still, could be worse We coud be in League Two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 But it's absolutely impossible with the way the club is run. The fact is we sell our best players, if that's the strategy, fine. But for Les Reed to say the aim is still Champions League is just ridiculous. It's just frustrating that all the talk isn't backed up by showing some balls in the transfer market, in terms of both buying and selling. We are having a bit of a crisis, but it's to be expected. No need to panic just yet, but the next few fixtures are worrying, as is the lack of goals in this team. Maybe Koeman is starting to run out of ideas. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk It's not as ridiculous as Leicester City bring top of the league at Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 It's not as ridiculous as Leicester City bring top of the league at Christmas. Let's just wait and see where they are at the end of the season Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 It's Nigel Pearson we're in need of, not Nigel Adkins A manager who knows how to kick ar se but also one who truly inspires and doesn't pussy foot about. Study the history of Koeman's managerial career and what's taking place is just a repeat of every previous situation. He really doesn't have a Plan B or has never been able to run a top class Academy like the one he inherited at Saints. He's lost it, and lost the players by playing the same old Pan A, team selections, and substitutions. Charlie M said the defense was a disaster, the forwards were a disaster. He forgot to mention that our midfield were shocking and the root cause the entire team disintegrated, has disintegrated of late. Fonte is a root cause of much of the failure of the defense in that he longer knows where to position himself and is so often caught with his pants down. He's no longer leading or the others are no longer listening to him. Van Dyke is constant blaming other players yet creating huge mistakes himself. I shall not mention the usual culprits, they get worse with every game. I honestly can't see Koeman, his brother Erwin and Jan Kluitenberg ever being bout to find the solution. We could sign the best strikers in the world, but they'd be forced to play Plan A and never be able to score goals. Some big decisions are needed and we can't afford to fiddle around without a PlanB for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Saint Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 To be fair to Ron, I think he is calling it right. What worries me though is he has no better players to call on. I'd go Romeu for Vic v Arsenal otherwise as is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 To answer my own question from the match thread, it was Davis who gave it away for the first, not Clasie (Clasie slid in for one of the ineffectual challenges). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaptopSaint Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Yeah but the club can hardly be blamed for the fact that four England internationals (Lambo, Lalaland, Clyne and Shaw) insisted on leaving, and two other England internationals (Jay and Fraser) are currently crocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 To be fair to Ron, I think he is calling it right. What worries me though is he has no better players to call on. I'd go Romeu for Vic v Arsenal otherwise as is Sounds like a physical approach. Maybe Pelle and Long up top. Cedric's place must be under threat so Yoshida could come in (or Martina). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkboy Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Not much to cheer about at the moment. I know it's not a popular thing to say on here and that the fundamentalists will scream "heresy!" but I think the problem lies with Koeman. I hate saying that, I like the bloke and would love to be wrong. Please Ron prove me wrong! The board aren't blameless either. But if the players aren't performing it's down to him. I know some can say "but he hasn't got quality players," but as manager he has to work with what he's got and develop a way of playing that gets the best out of them. Do Bournemouth have better players than us? I don't think so, but they play nicer football at a much higher intensity that gets the best out of what they have, it's not all about spending masses of cash. Ron says it was "amateur defending" - well why was it amateur? What are they doing in training for it to be amateur? I can just about live with losing if we are playing well because I can see that eventually our quality will win through, but at the moment we get flashes of the real "us" for about 20 minutes and then we capitulate. IMO the moments where we do play as we know we can, tells me we do have the quality, it's there, but we are missing something that helps us to maintain it. Where is the steel, where is the belief, where is the intensity? What about team spirit? This is all stuff Ron should be instilling in them. He has had a whole season in the prem, he knows what it's about, so why are we playing "too nice", why is he only just realising that the philosophy needs to change? I'm not sure he has the tools or the temperament to get us out of the problem we are in. Hope I'm wrong, I'll be happy to humble myself in front of the fundamentalist inquisition, I'll repent and confess my sins. Just want something to cheer about ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Killing mentality = Harry Reed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Boards lack of spending and lack of investment in wages coupled with trying to sign players on the cheap have caught up with us. Also, lack of effort from players ie Vic and Pelle have hurt us. Why take clasie off today when he was best player for James ward pathetic? I'm afraid we are in relegation fight. Also what's happened to Bertrand? Not a shadow of the player he was and there is no way on Earth vvd is as good as Toby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 The back five were basically ok. The midfield is a cluster****. Davis is hopeless, he can't tackle, unlike Clasie he makes mostly backwards passes or if pressured just unloads the ball sometimes to an opponent or a poorly placed colleague. He is an ever open door which we cannot afford. Wanyama needs leaving out until he can be sold. We won't get much for him the way he is playing and anyway why would Spurs replace Dier with him. Clasie looks the real deal, shame he was replaced by 'Square Ball', still trying to side foot his shots, that worked, nearly gave a third goal away fiddling around at the back. Maybe it's time to change, Clasie and Romeu with Tadic (It's too late for Ramirez) and Juanmi, Long and Mane up front. It sure as hell will have a lot more fire, pace and enthusiasm. Up front was another cluster****, Pelle hasn't a clue what's around him, he plays with his head down and spends far too much time digging the ball out from under his feet.He is just an easily marked big lump, for the amount of possession he had he did nothing. In the short term leave him out. Make Austin an offer he can't refuse. Pelle has been found out. As has the way we play. If we can get good prices for him and Wanyama move them on. We could then go for a goalscorer, a strong midfielder, and a right back. Won't happen though. A slide down the table is happening so there needs to be change. Fonte is calling for new faces, that tells me he sees the weaknesses and that him and others aren't happy with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkboy Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Also what's happened to Bertrand? Not a shadow of the player he was He got a place in the England squad. Oh and Ron said he was the best left back in the league or something. Maybe his head has inflated or maybe something else is going on. Perhaps the silicone markets have turned his head......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Perhaps it is the 'Caulker effect Three relegations in a row??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 (edited) Didn't see the game but just seen the goals on the replay. Cedric clearly at fault for both. Far too weak in defence (I realise VVD also made a howler but that's pretty much his first major mistake since joining - Cedric seems to make one mistake per game). I feel it's a tad unfair to hold Cedric responsible for the first. A number of players just went nuts - Fonte, VVD, Davis, and yes, Cedric with a weakish challenge. Davis in particular - he precipitates their counter-attack by losing the ball in their third under little pressure (i.e. he should've popped it off to Clasie easily). The defence should've dealt with it of course, but we don't need to be inviting pressure at a time when we have them deep in their half. As for the second, yes, Cedric. But also Tadic. I know Bertrand was out of position, but he was on his man at the very least. Tadic is always going to lose a foot race with Walker, but I'd like to see him at least try and sprint back. Edit: spelling Edited 19 December, 2015 by Donatello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Worth mentioning 2 class saves from Loris ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 The back five were basically ok. The midfield is a cluster****. Davis is hopeless, he can't tackle, unlike Clasie he makes mostly backwards passes or if pressured just unloads the ball sometimes to an opponent or a poorly placed colleague. He is an ever open door which we cannot afford. Wanyama needs leaving out until he can be sold. We won't get much for him the way he is playing and anyway why would Spurs replace Dier with him. Clasie looks the real deal, shame he was replaced by 'Square Ball', still trying to side foot his shots, that worked, nearly gave a third goal away fiddling around at the back. Maybe it's time to change, Clasie and Romeu with Tadic (It's too late for Ramirez) and Juanmi, Long and Mane up front. It sure as hell will have a lot more fire, pace and enthusiasm. Up front was another cluster****, Pelle hasn't a clue what's around him, he plays with his head down and spends far too much time digging the ball out from under his feet.He is just an easily marked big lump, for the amount of possession he had he did nothing. In the short term leave him out. Make Austin an offer he can't refuse. Pelle has been found out. As has the way we play. If we can get good prices for him and Wanyama move them on. We could then go for a goalscorer, a strong midfielder, and a right back. Won't happen though. A slide down the table is happening so there needs to be change. Fonte is calling for new faces, that tells me he sees the weaknesses and that him and others aren't happy with the team. The first sentence is wrong. So didn't bother to read the rest. Fonte was dire and culpable for the first. Cedric was dire and involved in both goals. Van Dijk very poor for the first. Bertrand poor for the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 19 December, 2015 Share Posted 19 December, 2015 Worth mentioning 2 class saves from Loris ? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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