Fracking

[sadoldgit]

Fracking agreed under National parks now. Good thing or bad thing?

[Window Cleaner]

Fracking agreed under National parks now. Good thing or bad thing?

 

 

Provided it's between consenting adults I don't see any harm in it :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Now hydraulic fracturing...well that's something else.

[badgerx16]

We were told by the last Government that planning issues, including fracking infrastructure projects, woud be decided by Local Government, so that such decisions would be more democratic. Lancashire County Council, together with all affected district and parish councils, ( and supported by local MPs of all persuasions ), decided to reject applications for fracking wells being placed in rural Lancashire. Earlier this year we were told that, despite being rejected 3 times already, an appeal by Cuadrilla would be heard, but that the decision would now be made by the relevant minister, who would take "all views and opinions" into account before ruling.

In other words, it will be steam rollered through, on the back of the recently released pro-fracking report to Government, ( a report paid for by the fracking companies ).

 

Fracking is bad for the environment, goes against the Climate Change obligations we committed to only a few days ago, and if the b@stards start trying to set their new wellheads up, I'll be right there blocking them. ( One of the sites is 6 miles from my house ).

[badgerx16]

Is there any chance that somebody might apply for an exploration licence for a well in the PM's constituency ?

( I know it's not in a National Park, but it would be interesting to see his reaction when his own constituents started protesting against it ).

[JakkoUK]

Terrible decision. Fracking causes numerous problems, such as contaminating ground water supplies, of which most are pumped into nearby cities with loverly methane gas and toxic chemicals mixed in.. also a strong link to causing earthquakes; the fluid that is pumped into the ground for the process causes severe air pollution (ground level ozone damage) caused by volatile organic compounds. All the while this expense on this method could be put into environmentally and sustainable re-newables.. But what do you expect from a Torrie government that just thinks about profit now and stuff others later. Terrible 'human' attitude.

[aintforever]

It is ****ing madness, on one hand we have our politicians in Paris banging on about how they will save the planet from climate change, then the same group of people are doing what they can to encourage a method of carbon extraction that is probably the worst for climate change.

 

Either we take climate change seriously or we don't, the government just need to be honest about it.

[TopGun]

Can't agree with above comments. It should be tested to prove whether it can work safely in the UK and therefore whether it can contribute to our dwindling energy resources and ever more precarious energy security. However it would seem contradictory to run gas-fired power stations fuelled by UK sourced shale gas without having operational CCS to reduce the carbon emissions. I would like to see that resolved before a safe fracking industry is established.

[buctootim]

Its a bad move, more of an empty gesture than a real policy. Fracking is not only environmentally damaging, its usually a really expensive way of extracting hydrocarbons. We'll all be on hydrogen or electric in 10 years time anyway so I cant see many people investing in some expensive extraction technique with oil at $45 a barrel and in an old tech industry.

 

Localised production of hydrogen using renewable electricity is where the future is at.

http://www.itm-power.com/project/wind-hydrogen-development-platform

Edited 16 December, 2015 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

..... our dwindling energy resources and ever more precarious energy security.

 

Maybe tidal, wind, and solar could contribute more ? But then again, this Goverment aren't interested in 'green'.

[LGTL]

Why do people think the oil price is so low, the petrol price is so low? The Americans have found so much oil and gas from fracking they don't know what to do with it. We'll all moan but happily go on our holidays abroad and drive the car round the corner to the shops.

[buctootim]

Why do people think the oil price is so low, the petrol price is so low? The Americans have found so much oil and gas from fracking they don't know what to do with it. We'll all moan but happily go on our holidays abroad and drive the car round the corner to the shops.

 

But neither fracking or the Canadian tar sands are economically viable at $45 so they will close again soon enough. Thats when the price will rise again.

[sadoldgit]

Maybe tidal, wind, and solar could contribute more ? But then again, this Goverment aren't interested in 'green'.

 

My neighbour has just erected a "Solar array" in his back garden - approx. 5m square. The Tory led local council let it through despite a lot of local opposition inc the Parish Council.

[badgerx16]

My neighbour has just erected a "Solar array" in his back garden - approx. 5m square. The Tory led local council let it through despite a lot of local opposition inc the Parish Council.

 

There is a difference between Tories at local and national levels - up here the Tory districts are absolutely opposed to fracking, Whitehall on the other hand.....

[sadoldgit]

There is a difference between Tories at local and national levels - up here the Tory districts are absolutely opposed to fracking, Whitehall on the other hand.....

 

They probably appreciate that this could cost them a lot of votes in Tory areas.

[buctootim]

My neighbour has just erected a "Solar array" in his back garden - approx. 5m square. The Tory led local council let it through despite a lot of local opposition inc the Parish Council.

 

Whats the problem with that?

[sadoldgit]

They are right in view of our and two other neighbours houses and they are not pretty. We are also in a conservation area. They could have put the panels further over out of sight but then they would be in their sight line.

[Gemmel]

But neither fracking or the Canadian tar sands are economically viable at $45 so they will close again soon enough. Thats when the price will rise again.

Don't know enough about fracking either way to have an opinion one way or the other, but your statement about why prices will rise again, is at odds with all the economist statements I have read and the oil industry readily acknowledges the $100 a barrel days are long long long gone and never to return.

[buctootim]

Don't know enough about fracking either way to have an opinion one way or the other, but your statement about why prices will rise again, is at odds with all the economist statements I have read and the oil industry readily acknowledges the $100 a barrel days are long long long gone and never to return.

 

I wouldnt necessarily disagree with that. What I meant to say was was if prices are going to rise again it wont be before a lot of the current capacity is closed.

Edited 16 December, 2015 by buctootim

[colehillsaint]

I don't want fracking, which is bound to result in pollution of my tap water and random plate tectonic activity, or something. I want the government to continue with maintenance of my 4 foreign holidays per year, my cheap gas central heating and enough diesel to run the small collection of German cars we have. I would also appreciate it if they could tell me what they think I want to hear and quietly deal with any trouble that might arise in securing this supply. If that ever involves a war, of course someone else can send their kids off to die in it. I don't want to know about the awful lives led by people of different ethnic origin in the horrible **** holes where all the oil and gas can come from. Of course I'm pro renewables, but not unreasonably I don't want wind turbines or solar panels to ever disturb any view I ever have, either at home or on holiday, even if it's just a small dot on the horizon. Ever. I want lots of cheap labour to wash my cars. I don't want them living near me though. That would mean building more houses on a field near me which I have allocated for an occasional theoretical idyllic dog walk. I want them magically transported in daily from the northern power house, but not by high speed train because that might involve a new train line running through the Cotswolds and I thought I might rent a holiday cottage there at some time in the future.

 

Basically I just want to consume, without any accountability whatsoever. And all the crap needs to happen somewhere else so that my property value is maintained.

 

That's OK isn't it?

 

Jesus Christ.

Edited 16 December, 2015 by colehillsaint

[badgerx16]

I don't want fracking, which is bound to result in pollution of my tap water and random plate tectonic activity, or something. I want the government to continue with maintenance of my 4 foreign holidays per year, my cheap gas central heating and enough diesel to run the small collection of German cars we have. I would also appreciate it if they could tell me what they think I want to hear and quietly deal with any trouble that might arise in securing this supply. If that ever involves a war, of course someone else can send their kids off to die in it. I don't want to know about the awful lives led by people of different ethnic origin in the horrible **** holes where all the oil and gas can come from. Of course I'm pro renewables, but not unreasonably I don't want wind turbines or solar panels to ever disturb any view I ever have, either at home or on holiday, even if it's just a small dot on the horizon. Ever. I want lots of cheap labour to wash my cars. I don't want them living near me though. That would mean building more houses on a field near me which I have allocated for an occasional theoretical idyllic dog walk. I want them magically transported in daily from the northern power house, but not by high speed train because that might involve a new train line running through the Cotswolds and I thought I might rent a holiday cottage there at some time in the future.

 

Basically I just want to consume, without any accountability whatsoever. And all the crap needs to happen somewhere else so that my property value is maintained.

 

That's OK isn't it?

 

Jesus Christ.

 

Is the name at the end of that drivel your signature or an exclamation ?

[TopGun]

I don't want fracking, which is bound to result in pollution of my tap water and random plate tectonic activity, or something. I want the government to continue with maintenance of my 4 foreign holidays per year, my cheap gas central heating and enough diesel to run the small collection of German cars we have. I would also appreciate it if they could tell me what they think I want to hear and quietly deal with any trouble that might arise in securing this supply. If that ever involves a war, of course someone else can send their kids off to die in it. I don't want to know about the awful lives led by people of different ethnic origin in the horrible **** holes where all the oil and gas can come from. Of course I'm pro renewables, but not unreasonably I don't want wind turbines or solar panels to ever disturb any view I ever have, either at home or on holiday, even if it's just a small dot on the horizon. Ever. I want lots of cheap labour to wash my cars. I don't want them living near me though. That would mean building more houses on a field near me which I have allocated for an occasional theoretical idyllic dog walk. I want them magically transported in daily from the northern power house, but not by high speed train because that might involve a new train line running through the Cotswolds and I thought I might rent a holiday cottage there at some time in the future.

 

Basically I just want to consume, without any accountability whatsoever. And all the crap needs to happen somewhere else so that my property value is maintained.

 

That's OK isn't it?

 

Jesus Christ.

 

Quite excellent. And there you have it.

[Gemmel]

I wouldnt necessarily disagree with that. What I meant to say was was if prices are going to rise again it wont be before a lot of the current capacity is closed.

 

Understood - The only book I've read on Fracking was fiction by John Grisham!! .... Although I did like colehills post, which, whilst tongue in cheek, probably resonates with more on here than would like to admit (Myself included).

[Whitey Grandad]

I wouldnt necessarily disagree with that. What I meant to say was was if prices are going to rise again it wont be before a lot of the current capacity is closed.

 

It should all settle into some sort of balance eventually.

[hutch]

We were told by the last Government that planning issues, including fracking infrastructure projects, woud be decided by Local Government, so that such decisions would be more democratic. Lancashire County Council, together with all affected district and parish councils, ( and supported by local MPs of all persuasions ), decided to reject applications for fracking wells being placed in rural Lancashire. Earlier this year we were told that, despite being rejected 3 times already, an appeal by Cuadrilla would be heard, but that the decision would now be made by the relevant minister, who would take "all views and opinions" into account before ruling.

In other words, it will be steam rollered through, on the back of the recently released pro-fracking report to Government, ( a report paid for by the fracking companies ).

 

Fracking is bad for the environment, goes against the Climate Change obligations we committed to only a few days ago, and if the b@stards start trying to set their new wellheads up, I'll be right there blocking them. ( One of the sites is 6 miles from my house ).

 

That's a bit churlish isn't it? The big fracking report published last week proved beyond any doubt that although fracking will provide absolutely no benefit whatsoever to anybody in Britain, it will be really really good for the fracking companies.

 

See, it's a win-win for everybody.

[solentstars]

looks to me they are selling out to big oil and gas interests hence changing the rules every time a stumbling block gets in there way,i had my suspicions when they dropped there commitments to green policies which is a short sighted view since they got re elected ,and lesson our dependence on oil from nasty governments from the middle east. thats why i wish they were in government with the liberal democrats still to stop the paymasters of the tory party pushing self interest before long term green policies.

[badgerx16]

Last week, we had this strange activty going on around 2:00 am on Friday morning;

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/community/environment/fury-at-fylde-frack-sign-theft-1-7615475

 

"Fylde villagers are furious after anti-fracking signs were removed from outside homes.

Residents of Roseacre, one of the two sites where energy company Cuadrilla want to test frack for underground gas, say they believe the signs have been stolen."

[TheCholulaKid]

I don't want fracking, which is bound to result in pollution of my tap water and random plate tectonic activity, or something. I want the government to continue with maintenance of my 4 foreign holidays per year, my cheap gas central heating and enough diesel to run the small collection of German cars we have. I would also appreciate it if they could tell me what they think I want to hear and quietly deal with any trouble that might arise in securing this supply. If that ever involves a war, of course someone else can send their kids off to die in it. I don't want to know about the awful lives led by people of different ethnic origin in the horrible **** holes where all the oil and gas can come from. Of course I'm pro renewables, but not unreasonably I don't want wind turbines or solar panels to ever disturb any view I ever have, either at home or on holiday, even if it's just a small dot on the horizon. Ever. I want lots of cheap labour to wash my cars. I don't want them living near me though. That would mean building more houses on a field near me which I have allocated for an occasional theoretical idyllic dog walk. I want them magically transported in daily from the northern power house, but not by high speed train because that might involve a new train line running through the Cotswolds and I thought I might rent a holiday cottage there at some time in the future.

 

Basically I just want to consume, without any accountability whatsoever. And all the crap needs to happen somewhere else so that my property value is maintained.

 

That's OK isn't it?

 

Jesus Christ.

 

Spot on. I live in the Cotswolds. Full of ******s like this (or maybe that's just the southeast (i.e. Tories) in general). Take a drive through Woodstock and you can see NIMBY signs everywhere complaining about house building.

[suewhistle]

Last week, we had this strange activty going on around 2:00 am on Friday morning;

SNIP

"Fylde villagers are furious after anti-fracking signs were removed from outside homes."

 

Didn't the Fylde MP Mark Menzies not vote in favour of fracking in National Parks the other day? That should do his vote good..

[badgerx16]

Didn't the Fylde MP Mark Menzies not vote in favour of fracking in National Parks the other day? That should do his vote good..

 

White man speak with forked tongue, perhaps ? -

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/community/community-news/as-fracking-d-day-finally-arrives-fylde-s-tory-mp-joins-worried-residents-to-say-stop-this-now-1-7075205

 

"Fylde’s Tory MP has sensationally called for fracking to be halted. In a move at odds with Tory party policy, Mark Menzies – the Conservative MP for Fylde – voted to back a moratorium of 30 months which would have effectively put a block on gas firm Cuadrilla’s two proposed sites at Roseacre and Little Plumpton going ahead."

[TopGun]

Badger mentions previously that the Tories in his area are opposed to fracking exploration and says this is different to (Tory) government views and he is right. But it is not a Tory issue exclusively but more one of national needs versus local sentiment. Where shale gas exploration is being proposed in areas that vote Labour locally, the same local political opposition exists. Largely this is because local politicians don't want to upset their voters and want to get re-elected.

 

Where Badger lives in Lancs, there has been a long and protracted planning procedure about whether shale gas exploration licences should be issued at two separate sites. For one site at least, the planning application was recommended for approval by planning officers after an extensive consultation process. The recommendation was put forward because it was felt on balance that the potential beneficial reasons outweighed the potential downsides. The consultation responses from technical and statutory consultees generally were not objecting and those from local communities were in objection.

 

In the end the local planning committee (who are politicians) voted against the proposal against the planning recommendation (made by non-politicians). It was a highly charged decision with external bodies also getting involved to persuade politicians of a particular case.

 

As allowed, the applicant has appealed the refusal and it will be ultimately be decided by central government following an independent planning inquiry recommendation.

 

It will probably be passed. The objectors will probably JR that decision also.

 

In my view, a fracking test bed is required to see whether it can add to the nation's energy security. Three nuke reactors have gone offline in the past week unexpectedly. They are all old. That will happen more. New nuclear is over the horizon. Hinkley Point might start generating in 2025. Construction has not started. Coal-fired power stations are going offline as they cannot meet emission standards. Wind tech is improving vastly but cannot provide baseload electricity.

 

We face an energy gap very soon (where national electricity demand exceeds generation supply at peak times). There is a possibility that domestic shale gas production might help with that problem by providing fuel to gas-fired electricity generation power plants. It needs to be tested to see if it is safe and attainable. And the decisions about that should be made objectively rather than otherwise.

 

The following link shows how the UK's electricity supply is being generated on a live time basis. Always interesting to view. http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

 

With thanks to Badger for outlining the Lancs position! Topgun

Edited 19 December, 2015 by TopGun

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I dare say that we all want the innumerable advantages that electrical power generation offers us. Indeed, most people will obviously consider this facility absolutely fundamental to civilised existence in the 21st century. However, when it comes to the messy business of actually producing the energy required to generate that electrical power it seems that many British people literally don't want to know anymore. For perfectly good environmental reasons many now favour that so-called 'low carbon' alternatives to fossil fuels be adopted. Okay then, that I think is a perfectly reasonable point to make in this day and age. But in modern Britain the truth is that whenever anyone actually tries constructing wind turbines, a new hydroelectric dam perhaps, or even one of those (oh so horrid) nuclear power plants then mass outrage will inevitably ensue because we don't much like any of that happening in our back yard do we?

 

How often do you see voters slating politicians for treating the electorate like a bunch of idiots when the hard truth is that WE THE PEOPLE so often act in this utterly irresponsible - almost childlike - manner? If rather than addressing our upcoming power generation problems in a sensible and planned manner we instead retreat into this virtual 'state of denial' about the reality of the modern world then if one day the lights do finally go out on us then the blame will lay mainly with us methinks. It may well be that nations end up with the political class they deserve.

 

I say this new 'Fracking' technology, in combination with the other greener power generation sources we have today, almost certainly offers the UK a valuable opportunity to reduce our increasingly worrying reliance on imported energy and therefore provide us with important boost not only to power generation, but to our key national security interests too. Therefore, we should press ahead with moves to secure our energy future with all possible speed and tiresome 'nimby' concerns will have to take second place to the wider national interest.

[aintforever]

On the subject of 'state of denial', if we are in any way serious about combating climate change then fracking is definitely not the sensible option. I think it is something like 3x more carbon intensive than tradition methods of extraction. We would be way better off just buying from abroad.

 

Or we could just pretend the scientists are all making it up because it suits our lifestyle.

[badgerx16]

I dare say that we all want the innumerable advantages that electrical power generation offers us. Indeed, most people will obviously consider this facility absolutely fundamental to civilised existence in the 21st century. However, when it comes to the messy business of actually producing the energy required to generate that electrical power it seems that many British people literally don't want to know anymore. For perfectly good environmental reasons many now favour that so-called 'low carbon' alternatives to fossil fuels be adopted. Okay then, that I think is a perfectly reasonable point to make in this day and age. But in modern Britain the truth is that whenever anyone actually tries constructing wind turbines, a new hydroelectric dam perhaps, or even one of those (oh so horrid) nuclear power plants then mass outrage will inevitably ensue because we don't much like any of that happening in our back yard do we?

 

How often do you see voters slating politicians for treating the electorate like a bunch of idiots when the hard truth is that WE THE PEOPLE so often act in this utterly irresponsible - almost childlike - manner? If rather than addressing our upcoming power generation problems in a sensible and planned manner we instead retreat into this virtual 'state of denial' about the reality of the modern world then if one day the lights do finally go out on us then the blame will lay mainly with us methinks. It may well be that nations end up with the political class they deserve.

 

I say this new 'Fracking' technology, in combination with the other greener power generation sources we have today, almost certainly offers the UK a valuable opportunity to reduce our increasingly worrying reliance on imported energy and therefore provide us with important boost not only to power generation, but to our key national security interests too. Therefore, we should press ahead with moves to secure our energy future with all possible speed and tiresome 'nimby' concerns will have to take second place to the wider national interest.

 

Is there any possibility that they can run the test drilling under your house, and when they have proved it is environmentally safe I won't worry about them extending it to my area.

Edited 19 December, 2015 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

In my view, a fracking test bed is required to see whether it can add to the nation's energy security. Three nuke reactors have gone offline in the past week unexpectedly. They are all old. That will happen more. New nuclear is over the horizon. Hinkley Point might start generating in 2025. Construction has not started. Coal-fired power stations are going offline as they cannot meet emission standards. Wind tech is improving vastly but cannot provide baseload electricity.

 

We face an energy gap very soon (where national electricity demand exceeds generation supply at peak times).

 

You are conflating two separate issues. The potential shortfall in Britain's electricity generating capacity has got nothing to do with fracking. We get our gas from Norway. Its far cheaper and cleaner than fracking, which has very little to recommend it. If we want to increase energy security then we should invest in more renewables, nuclear and gas storage capacity.

[badgerx16]

You are conflating two separate issues. The potential shortfall in Britain's electricity generating capacity has got nothing to do with fracking. We get our gas from Norway. Its far cheaper and cleaner than fracking, which has very little to recommend it. If we want to increase energy security then we should invest in more renewables, nuclear and gas storage capacity.

 

Don't get me started on that !!! Not only do they want to frack for gas here, they're trying to get approval to store it underground within 4 or 5 miles of one of the fracking test wells. You really couldn't make it up.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Is there any possibility that they can run the test drilling under your house, and when they have proved it is environmentally safe I won't worry about them extending it to my area.

 

I don't own a house alas, so petty bourgeoisie concerns about property values are of little interest to me frankly when put against the national interest here.

 

However, I do live not very far from the largest on-shore oil field in the UK - i.e. Wytch Farm on the Isle of Purbeck in Dorset. Yes Wytch Farm is not a fracking site, but I can assure you that the impact this significant operation has on a area of what is genuinely outstanding natural beauty is absolutely minimal. Indeed, you could almost drive past the site without noticing that it was even there. I see little reason to believe that fracking - with suitable safeguards in place - represents any great danger to local habitats and every reason to believe this potential energy source could prove a useful element in our future energy mix.

 

Can you please explain what part exactly of the Shale Gas extraction process concerns you so because my understanding of the facts of the matter leads me to believe that the risks of seismic disturbances and contamination of ground water ... etc are almost certainly greatly exaggerated.

[badgerx16]

I don't own a house alas, so petty bourgeoisie concerns about property values are of little interest to me frankly when put against the national interest here.

 

I'm not concerned with property values - I'm concerned about environmental contamination. So, in the theoretical 'National Interest', and regardless of whether you are actually a home owner, would you be happy for this to happen under wherever you live, ( be that penthouse, favella, or cave ) ?

 

.... my understanding of the facts of the matter leads me to believe that the risks of seismic disturbances and contamination of ground water ... etc are almost certainly greatly exaggerated.

 

You may believe that, I believe the opposite.

Edited 19 December, 2015 by badgerx16

[TopGun]

You are conflating two separate issues. The potential shortfall in Britain's electricity generating capacity has got nothing to do with fracking. We get our gas from Norway. Its far cheaper and cleaner than fracking, which has very little to recommend it. If we want to increase energy security then we should invest in more renewables, nuclear and gas storage capacity.

 

If I'm conflating the issues, then so is the independent Task Force on Shale Gas in its latest report published on 15 December:

 

"On the economic impacts explored in the fourth report, the Task Force is convinced that a shale gas industry in the UK has the potential to create thousands of jobs directly and support a wider supply chain indirectly. If it proceeds, the Government must commit to appropriate skills training in areas in which shale gas production will occur. The Task Force concluded that a domestic shale gas industry provides a clear means of strengthening the UK’s energy security and mitigating against potential risks to energy supply."

 

https://www.taskforceonshalegas.uk/news-and-events/task-force-on-shale-gas-launches-fourth-report-on-economic-impacts

[ecuk268]

If I'm conflating the issues, then so is the independent Task Force on Shale Gas in its latest report published on 15 December:

 

"On the economic impacts explored in the fourth report, the Task Force is convinced that a shale gas industry in the UK has the potential to create thousands of jobs directly and support a wider supply chain indirectly. If it proceeds, the Government must commit to appropriate skills training in areas in which shale gas production will occur. The Task Force concluded that a domestic shale gas industry provides a clear means of strengthening the UK’s energy security and mitigating against potential risks to energy supply."

 

https://www.taskforceonshalegas.uk/news-and-events/task-force-on-shale-gas-launches-fourth-report-on-economic-impacts

 

The task force was funded by:

 

Centrica

 

Cuadrilla Resources

 

Total

 

The Weir Group

 

GDF SUEZ E&P UK Ltd

 

Dow Chemical Company

 

 

Not saying that they influenced the findings but I would have preferred a completely independent study.

[TopGun]

The task force was funded by:

 

Centrica

 

Cuadrilla Resources

 

Total

 

The Weir Group

 

GDF SUEZ E&P UK Ltd

 

Dow Chemical Company

 

 

Not saying that they influenced the findings but I would have preferred a completely independent study.

 

Check out the constitution.

 

https://www.taskforceonshalegas.uk/constitution

[igsey]

They are right in view of our and two other neighbours houses and they are not pretty. We are also in a conservation area. They could have put the panels further over out of sight but then they would be in their sight line.

 

You're that kind of retired person that goes on South Today when somebody's proposed an off-shore wind farm to protest against it because it's a "blot on the landscape" and "doesn't look very nice" like that's a solid fact and a relevant point, aren't you? In your opinion they don't look nice, but I expect you'd object to a coal power plant on your landscape too. Which would you prefer?

[TopGun]

Once again energy security is mentioned in the 2014 independent report commissioned by the Scottish Government. Scotland currently has a moratorium on fracking so the report might be considered more independent.

 

"2.23 The UK Government is supporting the development of the shale gas industry with the aim of delivering a reduction in domestic prices; a corresponding increase in security of supply; and providing economic growth and jobs."

 

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0045/00456579.pdf

[buctootim]

If I'm conflating the issues, then so is the independent Task Force on Shale Gas in its latest report published on 15 December:

 

"On the economic impacts explored in the fourth report, the Task Force is convinced that a shale gas industry in the UK has the potential to create thousands of jobs directly and support a wider supply chain indirectly. If it proceeds, the Government must commit to appropriate skills training in areas in which shale gas production will occur. The Task Force concluded that a domestic shale gas industry provides a clear means of strengthening the UK’s energy security and mitigating against potential risks to energy supply."

 

https://www.taskforceonshalegas.uk/news-and-events/task-force-on-shale-gas-launches-fourth-report-on-economic-impacts

 

Ha classic. You excuse conflating the separate issues of generation capacity and fracking by introducing another separate issue - employment levels.

 

Once again, to be clear. We need to replace some generation capacity, everyone recognises that. Giving planning permission to frack or its employment levels has zero bearing on that issue

[buctootim]

"2.23 The UK Government is supporting the development of the shale gas industry with the aim of delivering a reduction in domestic prices

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0045/00456579.pdf

 

How does that work then, since shale is more expensive to produce than wellhead gas?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/07/shale-industry-hibernation-us-economy-fears

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL3N0SF5VM20141020

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11171270/UK-fracking-faces-bust-amid-Opec-oil-price-war.html

[TopGun]

Ha classic. You excuse conflating the separate issues of generation capacity and fracking by introducing another separate issue - employment levels.

 

Once again, to be clear. We need to replace some generation capacity, everyone recognvises that. Giving planning permission to frack or its employment levels has zero bearing on that issue

 

Don't twist it. I quoted the whole para. I agree employment is a separate issue.

[TopGun]

How does that work then, since shale is more expensive to produce than wellhead gas?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/07/shale-industry-hibernation-us-economy-fears

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL3N0SF5VM20141020

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11171270/UK-fracking-faces-bust-amid-Opec-oil-price-war.html

 

Shale gas has brought prices down in the US. It might do here. Nevertheless once again I quote with emphasis on energy security. That is all.

Edited 21 December, 2015 by TopGun

[Trevor in Vancouver]

Fracking is a brilliant idea - for those who like to light their tap water on fire.

 

Otherwise, not.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtD1JU-jhdY

[TopGun]

Fracking is a brilliant idea - for those who like to light their tap water on fire.

 

Otherwise, not.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtD1JU-jhdY

 

There are some basic geological issues at work with that video and similar ones. There are countless places in the world where the local ground water table exists within gaseous rock formations. Sometimes that gas is CO2 and when that occurs and is discovered entrepreneurs sell it to people as naturally sparkling mineral water with life enhancing properties (Lourdes being the most famous example but there are lots of them). Sometimes that gas is CH4 (methane) and in that case it's never been unusual to gain a sporadic flame from water piped from that source if you try hard enough to ignite it. Other gases exist within ground water sources in different places too. Most of those natural gases are pretty harmless within drinking water.

 

Most of the videos that purport to show "fire water" have been filmed in Dakota where there are shallow rock formations containing CH4 as part of the ground water table.

Edited 24 December, 2015 by TopGun

[Trader]

"2.23 The UK Government is supporting the development of the shale gas industry with the aim of delivering a reduction in domestic prices; a corresponding increase in security of supply; and providing economic growth and jobs."

 

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0045/00456579.pdf

 

Yeah right - I'm old enough to remember when we were all going to get free gas from the North Sea.

 

Needless to say I'm still waiting.