benjii Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 As far as I can see. This is a bit worrying. So is our home form. We've won 5 league games against the teams currently in: 14th 16th 17th 18th and 19th places. Need to buck our ideas up. We have looked flat all season.
Saint Charlie Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Can't argue with that. But many will.
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 our better squad is showing its worth!!! Not as good as Everton and probably the worst team in the league, certainly got the worst players........oh and the manager has lot the plot.....and dont get me started on the board....and errmm?
adrian lord Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Those stats, and the table, don't lie. The concern is that the relegation candidate clubs presently contain a few sleeping giants that tend to wake from their slumber when they really have to.
hypochondriac Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Has anyone gone down with 21 points at this stage of the season? Very unlikely we will be relegated and therefore this season is about the fa cup. Once we exit that then my interest will most likely turn to the euros.
Dig Dig Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Our home form based on all competitions must be pretty bad going back to the turn of the year. I haven't looked it up but assuming it's relatively poor overall if anyone has this info to hand?
Saint Charlie Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Has anyone gone down with 21 points at this stage of the season? Very unlikely we will be relegated and therefore this season is about the fa cup. Once we exit that then my interest will most likely turn to the euros. Surely though if our form in the league is poor it makes Cup form more likely to also be poor? Don't see how the two can be so clearly separated. Its not like any team suddenly changes their whole mindset into being a "cup team" which is why generally the best teams win most of them.
Window Cleaner Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Anyway the 3rd round of the FA Cup is always a bit of a lottery if you fall against a decent team, probably because of the packed end of year programme.
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Surely though if our form in the league is poor it makes Cup form more likely to also be poor? Don't see how the two can be so clearly separated. Its not like any team suddenly changes their whole mindset into being a "cup team" which is why generally the best teams win most of them. Games of football tend to be won by the team that wants it more. Cup games also depend on who you draw and how strong a team they put out, and whether you're playing at home.
captainchris Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Has anyone gone down with 21 points at this stage of the season? Very unlikely we will be relegated and therefore this season is about the fa cup. Once we exit that then my interest will most likely turn to the euros. I understand your enthusiasm for an FA Cup win but logically why would we suddenly start beating the top 14 teams when we are playing in the FA Cup??? Seems rather fanciful.... Fact is, we are off the pace and very ordinary and struggling to maintain that even. Be realistic - there is quite some improving to do before we can expect to get anywhere near the FA Cup...
ErwinK1961 Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Surely though if our form in the league is poor it makes Cup form more likely to also be poor? Don't see how the two can be so clearly separated. Its not like any team suddenly changes their whole mindset into being a "cup team" which is why generally the best teams win most of them. Villa got to the final last year. Admittedly, they got trashed in the final, but they still got their.
Saint Charlie Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Games of football tend to be won by the team that wants it more. Cup games also depend on who you draw and how strong a team they put out, and whether you're playing at home. Agree with those but ultimately the better team with better players in better form will win in the majority of cases so you cannot really separate Cup & League form completely. No coincidence our poor form in the Europa round we lost in was at the same time as a poor league start. Ditto the Liverpool loss being in amongst some poor league form.
70's Mike Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 need Harrison Reed or his like , two many going through the motion and showing lots of verbal passion but little physical passion
Window Cleaner Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 need Harrison Reed or his like ' date=' two many going through the motion and showing lots of verbal passion but little physical passion[/quote'] Well as he doesn't even make the bench I don't see him getting a start at any time soon. He's either gone backwards or is absent for some other reason.
hypochondriac Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Surely though if our form in the league is poor it makes Cup form more likely to also be poor? Don't see how the two can be so clearly separated. Its not like any team suddenly changes their whole mindset into being a "cup team" which is why generally the best teams win most of them. Well Wigan did alright in it didn't they? Cup football is different to league form. Pretty likely not to progress too far but you can hope.
Dig Dig Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Well Wigan did alright in it didn't they? Cup football is different to league form. Pretty likely not to progress too far but you can hope. On average over time though, they are the anomalies as very good teams usually win the cups. There isn't any team any where who plans for or prides themselves on being a cup team.
scotty Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Well Wigan did alright in it didn't they? Cup football is different to league form. Pretty likely not to progress too far but you can hope. They won it, then got relegated a few days later. I wonder which game they'd have preferred to win.
CB Fry Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 They won it, then got relegated a few days later. I wonder which game they'd have preferred to win. Probably the cup game.
lickierambert Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Has anyone gone down with 21 points at this stage of the season? Very unlikely we will be relegated and therefore this season is about the fa cup. Once we exit that then my interest will most likely turn to the euros. To answer your question-yes they have. Blackpool had 22 at this stage of the season but went down with 39
WealdSaint Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Those of us that lived thro' the series of relegation fights up to 2005 would agree, I hope, that this team looks far better than many that stayed up back then. Nobody has really out classed us yet. Even the Everton Game the score flattered them If we carry on playing at a similar standard for the rest of the season the results will come. Have faith
Dalek2003 Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 They won it, then got relegated a few days later. I wonder which game they'd have preferred to win. Exactly ! We need to concentrate on reaching 40 points. Had we been knocked out of the League Cup earlier we may not have suffered the thrashing from Liverpool that led us to lose our confidence and ultimately two points against Villa.
scotty Posted 14 December, 2015 Posted 14 December, 2015 Probably the cup game. Would be interesting to ask that question on the wigan forum. They had a decent manager and a half decent squad, but they're out of the prem now with no obvious likelihood of returning for the foreseeable.
Baird of the land Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 Yep noticed this too. Very disappointing, heading towards a bottom half finish(though i don't buy into the relegation talk). We need to turn the corner with some wins against teams above us starting at home to Spuds
Batman Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 Yep noticed this too. Very disappointing, heading towards a bottom half finish(though i don't buy into the relegation talk). We need to turn the corner with some wins against teams above us starting at home to Spuds koeman is talking about it
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 Surely though if our form in the league is poor it makes Cup form more likely to also be poor? Don't see how the two can be so clearly separated. Its not like any team suddenly changes their whole mindset into being a "cup team" which is why generally the best teams win most of them. All I can say to that is is WIGAN.
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 I don't car who we beat as long as we beat somebody. We don't get any more points for beating a team from the top half of the table.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 I don't car who we beat as long as we beat somebody. We don't get any more points for beating a team from the top half of the table. True but thats not the point of the thread.
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 True but thats not the point of the thread. I'm not sure what the point is, to be honest.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 I'm not sure what the point is, to be honest. Its pretty obvious. We haven't been very good this season and have only beaten other not good/worse teams which is why we find ourselves below lots of other sides that we wers above last year. You say it doesn't matter who we beat which is sort of true. But if you cannot beat anyone from the top 10 then you massively restrict the number of points you can gain and where you will finish in the table. If we maintain the current record over the second half of the season then we will end up staying up by a few points but being far from comfortable.
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 Its pretty obvious. We haven't been very good this season and have only beaten other not good/worse teams which is why we find ourselves below lots of other sides that we wers above last year. You say it doesn't matter who we beat which is sort of true. But if you cannot beat anyone from the top 10 then you massively restrict the number of points you can gain and where you will finish in the table. If we maintain the current record over the second half of the season then we will end up staying up by a few points but being far from comfortable. But Bournemouth have beaten Man Utd and are below us in the table. Maybe the teams we have beaten are below us in the table because we have beaten them.all that matters is getting points no matter where we get them from.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 But Bournemouth have beaten Man Utd and are below us in the table. Maybe the teams we have beaten are below us in the table because we have beaten them.all that matters is getting points no matter where we get them from. I don't think you are understanding it correctly. All that matters IS getting points. So if you can't beat the top 1e like we haven't so far then you are restricting the amount of points you can get. To be higher in the league you need to be able to beat higher teams and therefore win more games, gaining more points. At the same time as you say it keeps those teams lower. So its a concern we haven't beaten anyone above 13th and is basically why we are where we are in the table. So it does matter who you can beat. Its simple, surely?
VectisSaint Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 But Bournemouth have beaten Man Utd and are below us in the table. Maybe the teams we have beaten are below us in the table because we have beaten them.all that matters is getting points no matter where we get them from. Its actually more important to beat the teams below us. Consistently beat the teams in the bottom 6 and not only will you get more points but you also stop them. If they get an occassional win against the top boys it will not compensate completely. Problem with us at the moment is we are not winning enough games full stop.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 Its actually more important to beat the teams below us. Consistently beat the teams in the bottom 6 and not only will you get more points but you also stop them. If they get an occassional win against the top boys it will not compensate completely. Problem with us at the moment is we are not winning enough games full stop. But if we only beat the sides below we will come nowhere near where we want to be! To be nearly halfway through and having our best victory against a 14th placed side is pretty underwhelming and not going to get a top 10 finish if thats maintained.
VectisSaint Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 But if we only beat the sides below we will come nowhere near where we want to be! To be nearly halfway through and having our best victory against a 14th placed side is pretty underwhelming and not going to get a top 10 finish if thats maintained. Don't disagree, but if you get the part right about beating the teams below us then at least you end up above the bottom 3 (or bottom 6). Other wins and draws you pick up on the way then push you further up. The difference between finishing 14th and finishing 7th is not that great in terms of results. The current team is clearly not good enough to finish the same place as last season which was probably the target for this season. Too fragile and too dependent on players who have proved for the second season running that they are not consistent enough.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 Don't disagree, but if you get the part right about beating the teams below us then at least you end up above the bottom 3 (or bottom 6). Other wins and draws you pick up on the way then push you further up. The difference between finishing 14th and finishing 7th is not that great in terms of results. The current team is clearly not good enough to finish the same place as last season which was probably the target for this season. Too fragile and too dependent on players who have proved for the second season running that they are not consistent enough. Last year the team in 7th (Saints) had 19 more points and 7 more wins than the team in 14th (Leicester). That is quite a lot I think. Fair enough we lost a couple of excellent players but that shouldn't be an acceptable excuse for finishing lower midtable if that is where we end up (12th-15th).
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 I don't think you are understanding it correctly. All that matters IS getting points. So if you can't beat the top 1e like we haven't so far then you are restricting the amount of points you can get. To be higher in the league you need to be able to beat higher teams and therefore win more games, gaining more points. At the same time as you say it keeps those teams lower. So its a concern we haven't beaten anyone above 13th and is basically why we are where we are in the table. So it does matter who you can beat. Its simple, surely? It doesn't matter, just so long as we pick up the points. Is it better to beat the team at the top and lose to the bottom or the other way around? Or does it not make any difference?
Batman Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 It doesn't matter, just so long as we pick up the points. Is it better to beat the team at the top and lose to the bottom or the other way around? Or does it not make any difference? It does matter as it shows that we are poor Even the manager is suggesting we are not far away from a relegation scrap Despite people dismissing it
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2015 Posted 18 December, 2015 It does matter as it shows that we are poor Even the manager is suggesting we are not far away from a relegation scrap Despite people dismissing it We've got 21 points after 16 games, we are exactly where we deserve to be.
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 We've got 21 points after 16 games, we are exactly where we deserve to be. Not sure how that adds to the OP made
CB Fry Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 It does matter as it shows that we are poor Even the manager is suggesting we are not far away from a relegation scrap Despite people dismissing it You are creaming yourself over those quotes aren't you? Probably another couple of threads you could bring it up on. Worth mentioning Koeman was asked a question to the tune of "if you don't get results in the next three games, are you in the relegation scrap" to which the obvious answer is yes. Ronald didn't stroll into the press room and shout "listen up folks, reckon wee going down here, put that in your paper ". In the same conference he went on to talk about fine margins and how close we would have been to Spurs right now if we'd just beaten Villa. He gave at least as much time to that conference to looking upwards as he did downwards. Sorry to spoil it and stuff.
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 You are creaming yourself over those quotes aren't you? Probably another couple of threads you could bring it up on. Worth mentioning Koeman was asked a question to the tune of "if you don't get results in the next three games, are you in the relegation scrap" to which the obvious answer is yes. Ronald didn't stroll into the press room and shout "listen up folks, reckon wee going down here, put that in your paper ". In the same conference he went on to talk about fine margins and how close we would have been to Spurs right now if we'd just beaten Villa. He gave at least as much time to that conference to looking upwards as he did downwards. Sorry to spoil it and stuff. Waaaa waaaaaaa Everton. End of chat
CB Fry Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 Waaaa waaaaaaa Everton. End of chat You could have used that time to watch the press conference and actually listen to the manager. But that would bring you dangerously close to learning something and we can't have that.
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 You could have used that time to watch the press conference and actually listen to the manager. But that would bring you dangerously close to learning something and we can't have that. I have posted that the manager thinks we will get out of this rut. But do ignore that. I could reply about our general form that we should be doing better You would reply that I am deluded and we are doing just fine I would say the club have raised expectations with talk of champions league ambitions many times a season (including this) You would say a club like saints fighting for champions league is utter delusional I would say look at Leicester You would end the chat with a witty retort ending with "Everton or something" Just thought I'd cut the crap and end it before it started
Saint Charlie Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 Don't really get the Everton stuff against Batman seeing as: 1. They kept their best players 2. They look very good this season 3. They are much better than us when we were superior last season Surely he has just been proven right unless I missed something?
CB Fry Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 I have posted that the manager thinks we will get out of this rut. But do ignore that. I could reply about our general form that we should be doing better You would reply that I am deluded and we are doing just fine I would say the club have raised expectations with talk of champions league ambitions many times a season (including this) You would say a club like saints fighting for champions league is utter delusional I would say look at Leicester You would end the chat with a witty retort ending with "Everton or something" Just thought I'd cut the crap and end it before it started Why would I say we're doing just fine? We're on a poor run of form. What would I say you're deluded about? On the Champions League I would say what I've said time and time again. Read and listen to what Les Reed actually says. You won't, because you never do. On Leicester I would say what I've already said a couple of times - they show how it can happen for a club like us, proving mine and Les Reed's point exactly. I for one really hope they do it with their players they spent three and six million quid on. You could pay attention to the world around you and seek to understand it. But we can't be having that can we?
Batman Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 Why would I say we're doing just fine? We're on a poor run of form. What would I say you're deluded about? On the Champions League I would say what I've said time and time again. Read and listen to what Les Reed actually says. You won't, because you never do. On Leicester I would say what I've already said a couple of times - they show how it can happen for a club like us, proving mine and Les Reed's point exactly. I for one really hope they do it with their players they spent three and six million quid on. You could pay attention to the world around you and seek to understand it. But we can't be having that can we? Ok. All that from my post saying we are poor at the mo and the manager has recognised that. Glad we agree
CB Fry Posted 19 December, 2015 Posted 19 December, 2015 Ok. All that from my post saying we are poor at the mo and the manager has recognised that. Glad we agree I was replying to your list of things you decided I think or have you forgotten you'd posted that. It's about four posts up from here, maybe ten minutes ago. Jog your memory.
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