Lallana's Left Peg Posted 27 December, 2015 Posted 27 December, 2015 Not sure why people remain fixated on his £12m fee. £12m for a domestic transfer in the current market is not a huge amount of money. People remain fixated and continue to judge a players contribution because they assess the size of the investment that the club has made against what return is made on the pitch. There were a number of things that determined the £12m fee and just a part of it is Longs ability as a footballer - but regardless I still think that £12m is a lot for Saints to invest in a player and I expect him to be one of our better players for that amount. As always it's 50/50 whether these things work out. As for Long I think £12m is very steep for someone who is rarely first choice, and certainly not in his chosen position. I like his attributes and am glad he is a part of our squad but on the face of it £12m is a lot of money to invest in him - and on the face of it not really justified by any metric thus far. None of this is his fault as he has been exactly as we thought he would since he joined. For me, he now has a chance to get a run in the team in his favoured position with us playing a way he will enjoy - it's a real opportunity for him not step up but score more goals and prove to the club and fans he is worth the money we paid.
Saint86 Posted 27 December, 2015 Posted 27 December, 2015 Saint86 here, after proving thastnlong was more effective than tadic for creating goals (and including tadic's penalties and assistsnin that tally) I see people have reverted to quoting his price? Perhaps people should look at tadic's cost... Or say McCormack's, or say Jordan Rhodes, or marcus bent?!?!! I mean seriously guys, long is a really strong asset for us, and he also gives his all every time unlike the Italian rasiak... And if you're still not convinced to stop slating him.... Liverpool payed 11million for heskey in 2000 or 2001... That is like 25m in today's prices. Just except you are wrong about long, no one will hold it against you. And we can save this thread as a golden one and be happy
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2015 Author Posted 27 December, 2015 Why would you quote the prices of **** players to justify Long's? Odd.
VectisSaint Posted 27 December, 2015 Posted 27 December, 2015 Pellè was in a box at the back of the Itchen North. Injury worse than I thought
CB Fry Posted 27 December, 2015 Posted 27 December, 2015 Why would you quote the prices of **** players to justify Long's? Odd. Probably because every club in the land, including us, have made infinitely worse value signings than we have with Shane Long.
philelec Posted 27 December, 2015 Posted 27 December, 2015 Exactly right! He is a Saints player so lets get behind him.
Winnersaint Posted 27 December, 2015 Posted 27 December, 2015 He is not a subtle finisher but still scores goals given the chance and service, Pretty much like he did for RoI in Euro qualifiers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceG7EUOjDGg
Fatboy40 Posted 27 December, 2015 Posted 27 December, 2015 ... and he also gives his all every time unlike the Italian rasiak... Love it, best description of Pelle I've read
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Injury worse than I thought and the black arm bands!
david in sweden Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 and the black arm bands! were as a tribute to Don Howe, former Arsenal /England man who died during the week. A fairly established gesture to former players, I would have thought .
david in sweden Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Not sure why people remain fixated on his £12m fee. £12m for a domestic transfer in the current market is not a huge amount of money. A decent season for a Championship striker and clubs ask for £10m+, so £12m for Long really doesn't stand out. A point that I've made on previous occasions. Shane Long didn't decide on his own transfer fee. After signing Pellé (who to be fair was an unknown quantity) we needed back-up for him after Lambert's departure. That was a sensible and necessary measure to ensure we had cover. That Pelle had such success, kept Long out of the start side, but he still made good sub.apps. The fact we paid over the odds, was a boardroom decision in making Hull an offer they couldn't refuse, as they were in desperate financial problems at the time. There is no way anyone should attach guilt to Long for the size of the fee. His personal terms/salary were agreed between him and SFC. The fee between the two clubs. £12 million may seem high to some people, but we had already mis-spent more on the catastrophic signings of Gaston and Osvaldo...(who incidentally were purchased when we had " another Board and another Chairman ). Based on that, one might argue that Shane Long has already provided better value than they did. My only real criticism of Koeman might be that he persisted with Pellé for too long (last season), when it was patently obvious that Pelle had been " found out " by opposing defences, and that he hit the woodwork more often than he scored, and that Koeman failed to implement a " Plan B " much sooner. At last, RK was forced to do so (on Saturday) because of Pellé absence, and we can hope that the result was the beginning of a new dawn.... and not a glorious sunset.
austsaint Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Injury worse than I thought I laughed Vectis - very good!
Saint86 Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Long is just a beast for us. Finnaly getting a chance up top with no pelle to slow us down. This is two we should place. Solid back 8, and then long, mane and tadic. Only way to play this. Rape em on the break and with good movement and passers of the ball sitting deep. Shane long I'd our best striker tbh.
Saint_clark Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 People judged Long on everything he'd done previously without remembering how well other players have improved under our coaching system - he has as well, massively, and has become a good striker at this level.
Daft Kerplunk Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Another assist, another nail in the coffin for this daft thread
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Love it, best description of Pelle I've read Shame its utter b oll oks though...
Saint Charlie Posted 28 December, 2015 Author Posted 28 December, 2015 Long is just a beast for us. Sorry mate. Lukaku is a beast. Long is an erratic hard worker who will mostly fluff key chances.
Roger Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Long is just a beast for us. Finnaly getting a chance up top with no pelle to slow us down. This is two we should place. Solid back 8, and then long, mane and tadic. Only way to play this. Rape em on the break and with good movement and passers of the ball sitting deep. Shane long I'd our best striker tbh. Couldn't disagree more and awful choice of language.
ally_uk Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Decent work rate, runs his socks off works hard for the team, Ok so the initial 12 million outlay turned a few heads as a team player who isn't shy of graft I rate him. Ok so he isn't the greatest finisher in the world and never will be. He gets alot of criticism from the fans but when he chips in the odd goal or turns on a decent performance like at Arsenal they change there tune. football fans are so fickle. If you want to sell anyone? sell Wanyama....... head has gone
doggface Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 One of our better players today but not as suited to 4231 as 442. Mane was on the left today when him and long were unstoppable as a pair vs Arsenal. Should have kept same shape IMO may have got us more than 1 goal
VectisSaint Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Another assist, another nail in the coffin for this daft thread Assist was taken away when they changed the goal to an own goal. Tadic now has the assist. Bloody stupid but there you are.
Saints foreva Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Looked knackered in that second half. We really do need another striker.
Whitey Grandad Posted 28 December, 2015 Posted 28 December, 2015 Looked knackered in that second half. We really do need another striker. We've needed that for some time, too much hope was pinned on J-Rod's return.
david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2015 Posted 29 December, 2015 Looked knackered in that second half. After the Arsenal game, Shane said that he'd never felt so tired after a game. Two games in less than 48 hours ...no wonder he looked like that.
Saint Charlie Posted 9 January, 2016 Author Posted 9 January, 2016 If only we had this £12m to spend again. After the Arsenal game where he exploited a huge amount of space he has missed key chances...as usual.
Roger Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 I would sell him. He was awful today. Awful signing.
Kingsland Red Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 I would sell him. He was awful today. Awful signing. Totally agree.
Roger Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 He is exactly what a £12m player is. Toby was 11.5 million for Spurs.
Saints foreva Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 Works his socks off but he's a Championship standard player imo.
Daft Kerplunk Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 Long gets heat from those who desperately chase this agenda yet the ponderous and ineffectual Tadic gets off Scott-free.
Saint Without a Halo Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 I would sell him. He was awful today. Awful signing. To who and for how much?
Roger Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 Long gets heat from those who desperately chase this agenda yet the ponderous and ineffectual Tadic gets off Scott-free. No he doesn't was poor.
Roger Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 To who and for how much? Okay well him if anyone wants to buy him which is unlikely. Prob have to be a championship team.
Noodles34 Posted 9 January, 2016 Posted 9 January, 2016 Whilst I don't particularly rate him, it's a shame that half our players don't put in the same work rate. Whatever you can slate him for, it can't be for working as hard as possible.
Saint Charlie Posted 9 January, 2016 Author Posted 9 January, 2016 Whilst I don't particularly rate him, it's a shame that half our players don't put in the same work rate. Whatever you can slate him for, it can't be for working as hard as possible. Of course not. He works very hard. But that doesn't win points. He is a continually poor finisher and it costs us.
shurlock Posted 10 January, 2016 Posted 10 January, 2016 Lots of talk on here about Longy's ability to run in behind. Martin O'Neill's conclusion on Motd pretty uncompromising: that's "a euphemism for not being very good on the ball"
david in sweden Posted 12 January, 2016 Posted 12 January, 2016 Of course not. He works very hard. But that doesn't win points. He is a continually poor finisher and it costs us. you can see how poor he is .... .....he only scored twice against Arsenal..and had one disallowed..and hit the post....almost as bad as Pelle last season. Sell them both ASAP
Saint Charlie Posted 12 January, 2016 Author Posted 12 January, 2016 you can see how poor he is .... .....he only scored twice against Arsenal..and had one disallowed..and hit the post....almost as bad as Pelle last season. Sell them both ASAP So you don't think Long is generally a poor finisher 1v1? Fair enough.
david in sweden Posted 12 January, 2016 Posted 12 January, 2016 So you don't think Long is generally a poor finisher 1v1? Fair enough. I've seen others do far worse .......
Saint Charlie Posted 12 January, 2016 Author Posted 12 January, 2016 I've seen others do far worse ....... Nice sidestep Davie!
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Posted 14 January, 2016 should we still sell Shane Long, Saint Charlie?...OK I know he missed a few chances, but......
Andy Durman Posted 14 January, 2016 Posted 14 January, 2016 Sell Pelle in January and continue with Long and Mane. The way we played against Watford is how football should be played. Pelle and Tadic just slow everything down
Saint Charlie Posted 14 January, 2016 Author Posted 14 January, 2016 should we still sell Shane Long, Saint Charlie?...OK I know he missed a few chances, but...... Obviously not now. Seems like Koeman trusts him more now whichwas part of the issue and due to Pelle's injury he has a run of games up front which he hadn't had before. Will be interesting to see at which point he puts Pelle back in instead of Long. He still misses far too many presentable chances for me, but obviously has good games also. A quality finisher would have scored a hattrick versus Arsenal and finished excellent chances against Palace and Norwich away. Long term do I think he will be a key player for us? No. He is too erratic. But would be silly to sell now unless someone offered us at least £10m back, which won't happen.
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Posted 14 January, 2016 Obviously not now. Seems like Koeman trusts him more now whichwas part of the issue and due to Pelle's injury he has a run of games up front which he hadn't had before. Will be interesting to see at which point he puts Pelle back in instead of Long. He still misses far too many presentable chances for me, but obviously has good games also. A quality finisher would have scored a hattrick versus Arsenal and finished excellent chances against Palace and Norwich away. Long term do I think he will be a key player for us? No. He is too erratic. But would be silly to sell now unless someone offered us at least £10m back, which won't happen. I was following your revised attitude .....up to a point Charlie, but to criticise his performance v.Arsenal is... a bit harsh. He scored two, had one disallowed (subsequent slo-mo replays I watched on Match of the Day suggested it was ....a tussle between players - not a foul) .....and it was only the base of the post that denied him a third. ......and quite a few of our "presentable chances " this season have been the reactions of a goalkeeper who suddenly produced a " wordlie " to keep the ball out. NOTE; Pelle ....in his goalless spells during last season...hit the woodwork EIGHT times - do I recall ? Still comes back to the same stats. missed chances or not....Shane Long ....scores more often / per game minutes ....than any other player on the books.
Saint_clark Posted 14 January, 2016 Posted 14 January, 2016 Sell Pelle in January and continue with Long and Mane. The way we played against Watford is how football should be played. Pelle and Tadic just slow everything down Nope, why is everything always one way or the other on this forum. Both good players who will do a job for us.
Super_Uwe Posted 14 January, 2016 Posted 14 January, 2016 The funny thing is that Long is not all that far off scoring every other game this season:o So with a bit of luck, he could get close to 15 goals, which isn't bad going at all for a striker. Good old football...
Trout-Tickler Posted 14 January, 2016 Posted 14 January, 2016 Obviously not now. Seems like Koeman trusts him more now whichwas part of the issue and due to Pelle's injury he has a run of games up front which he hadn't had before. Will be interesting to see at which point he puts Pelle back in instead of Long. He still misses far too many presentable chances for me, but obviously has good games also. A quality finisher would have scored a hattrick versus Arsenal and finished excellent chances against Palace and Norwich away. Long term do I think he will be a key player for us? No. He is too erratic. But would be silly to sell now unless someone offered us at least £10m back, which won't happen. Agree he isn't clinical but then again he's never really been so throughout his career. IMO Long gets a lot of un-warranted stick, if your going to critical about finishing then Mane should be getting pelters. How many did he miss last night? Through on goal, under no pressure and he can't even hit the target? Poor, especially for a player rated in the £30M bracket by some people on here. This place would've been in meltdown if Long had missed the chances Mane did last night.
Verbal Kint Posted 14 January, 2016 Posted 14 January, 2016 Agree he isn't clinical but then again he's never really been so throughout his career. IMO Long gets a lot of un-warranted stick, if your going to critical about finishing then Mane should be getting pelters. How many did he miss last night? Through on goal, under no pressure and he can't even hit the target? Poor, especially for a player rated in the £30M bracket by some people on here. This place would've been in meltdown if Long had missed the chances Mane did last night. Hopefully now Koeman has realised that we don't HAVE to pick Pelle every single game even if he's fit
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