Andy Durman Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 (edited) I spoke to Erwin, Ronald and many players after the match and what impressed me the most was how positive everybody outwardly spoke. Nobody criticized anybody, everybody seemed to take the pluses from the game, some couldn't wait for training on Monday. We on this forum (including myself) get too negative. We are in a phase where things are not working as we would want. It will change and we should be patient and not pile our everyday frustrations on the back of our team. It will change. Edited 7 December, 2015 by Andy Durman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Nothing changes solely off the back of positive thinking. In football there are a few things you can guarantee. The biggest is that if you continue to sell high and buy low you cannot sustain progression. We are all frustrated because over the past two years we are the only football club in the Premier League who have not had a net spend on transfer fees. It is even more frustrating because we can see the team is close to being good but we just lack certain things which mean progression is unlikely. For me this summer is huge - it is the summer we have to start spending more emphatically to improve the team. More VvD's than Juanmi's. Otherwise fans will lose interest because of a perceived lack of ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 I think many people come on here to vent and use the forum as some form of therapy. After a loss (or even a draw) some of the comments about the team, Koeman or the Board makes you wonder if these people actually support the club! Ranting in cyberspace probably gets rid of (or not) some of the anger and frustration for some. But it is only football at the end of the day and there are far more important things to worry about. To me there is still plenty to be positive about this season. Bring on Palace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Nothing changes solely off the back of positive thinking. In football there are a few things you can guarantee. The biggest is that if you continue to sell high and buy low you cannot sustain progression. We are all frustrated because over the past two years we are the only football club in the Premier League who have not had a net spend on transfer fees. It is even more frustrating because we can see the team is close to being good but we just lack certain things which mean progression is unlikely. For me this summer is huge - it is the summer we have to start spending more emphatically to improve the team. More VvD's than Juanmi's. Otherwise fans will lose interest because of a perceived lack of ambition. Very true and we start by replacing Wanyama and Mane without going cheap and ****. My biggest worry with all that extra premiership money coming in this summer is we will come out with a stupid quote like 'Clubs are paying out silly money for players and we won't be one of those.' Is that black box going to find some gems or will we miss out on so many good players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Despite not firing on all cylinders, we're 2 points away from 6th place with Christmas on the horizon. I'd have taken that scenario at the beginning of the season. Happy days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Nothing changes solely off the back of positive thinking. In football there are a few things you can guarantee. The biggest is that if you continue to sell high and buy low you cannot sustain progression. We are all frustrated because over the past two years we are the only football club in the Premier League who have not had a net spend on transfer fees. It is even more frustrating because we can see the team is close to being good but we just lack certain things which mean progression is unlikely. For me this summer is huge - it is the summer we have to start spending more emphatically to improve the team. More VvD's than Juanmi's. Otherwise fans will lose interest because of a perceived lack of ambition. I think people attach a little to much importance to players price while there is, clearly, a correlation between price and ability it's not that clear cut. Lovern is allegedly a 20 million player and yet the two centre backs we've had since ,both better players, are nearer 12 million players. Shane long is a good example of a player the cost more than he is worth. Sometimes cheap players work sometimes expensive signings don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 I think people attach a little to much importance to players price while there is, clearly, a correlation between price and ability it's not that clear cut. Lovern is allegedly a 20 million player and yet the two centre backs we've had since ,both better players, are nearer 12 million players. Shane long is a good example of a player the cost more than he is worth. Sometimes cheap players work sometimes expensive signings don't. Long cost the same as Tadic and overall contributes more when on the pitch imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Long cost the same as Tadic and overall contributes more when on the pitch imo I'm sorry but that is absolute rubbish. Tadic a million miles better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 I think people attach a little to much importance to players price while there is, clearly, a correlation between price and ability it's not that clear cut. Lovern is allegedly a 20 million player and yet the two centre backs we've had since ,both better players, are nearer 12 million players. Shane long is a good example of a player the cost more than he is worth. Sometimes cheap players work sometimes expensive signings don't. It's not everything but it's clearer-cut than most things. You're setting yourself up for failure if you think you can consistently find exceptions to the rule. And if you think you can, surely you can be trusted to spend larger amounts just as efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Pete Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Long cost the same as Tadic and overall contributes more when on the pitch imo Tadic is frustrating at times, but I don't see how you can say he has contributed less than Long. He has regularly created chances and goals since he joined Saints and even in Saturday's game when he didn't play well overall, he still produced one of the only moments of real quality from us in the match with his perfect early ball in to Pelle in the first half - which should have been buried by Pelle. Generally, when he is on song, so are we, so he is much more of a key player than Long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Long cost the same as Tadic and overall contributes more when on the pitch imo Long contributes more than Tadic? You mean in terms of work rate i assume, because he doesn't contribute more in terms of assists or goals. I know it's popular to knock Tadic because at times, he doesn't look like he's at it in a game, but he (along with Mane) has got more quality than anyone else in our midfield/attack. I don't think there is any debate about that personally. Long is good in the air, an occasional good finisher, but in general, a nuisance to play against as opposed a genuine threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Despite not firing on all cylinders, we're 2 points away from 6th place with Christmas on the horizon. I'd have taken that scenario at the beginning of the season. Happy days I'm with you Trousers. I think we have yet to see the best from this squad and am optimistic about what we can achieve once it is firing on all cylinders. Mane and Tadic can worry any defence and I am sure there is a lot more to Clasie than we have seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Despite not firing on all cylinders, we're 2 points away from 6th place with Christmas on the horizon. I'd have taken that scenario at the beginning of the season. Happy days But only in the event of a draw between Palace and Everton this evening, if there's any other result we'd be at least 3 points off 6th with 6 other teams in between. These if we had some bacon we could have some bacon and eggs if we had some eggs calculations are always utterly ill thought out. We are 12th, that's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Long cost the same as Tadic and overall contributes more when on the pitch imo dinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 I'm sorry but that is absolute rubbish. Tadic a million miles better. Really a million times better? If Tadic is so bloody good why does Koeman always sub him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Despite not firing on all cylinders, we're 2 points away from 6th place with Christmas on the horizon. I'd have taken that scenario at the beginning of the season. Happy days Or you could look at it as the league is tight. We're in the middle and not doing well. Unless we do so it can quickly become the case that we drop down the table. For us to climb the table we have to do well and have others above us do poorly. 6 points off top where everyone else is 5 points from the top means we're bottom so simply looking at it that way (and I know you didn't directly, but) isn't much of a considered analysis if you want to take that view. It's nice to hear the players aren't down and let's hope they get back to playing well consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Really a million times better? If Tadic is so bloody good why does Koeman always sub him? I'd say Tadic is definitely "better", and substitutions in attacking positions are basically a feature of modern football to keep energy high. When you consider that Pelle rarely comes off and that we have basically 4 or 5 players in attacking positions and we almost always make 3 subs, any non-Pelle attacking player has somewhere between a 60-75% chance of being subbed in any game where we don't replace a defender. It's probably slightly lower than that at the moment due to Cedric's propensity to head wounds, however, but likely to still be more than 50%. Of course anyone with a bit too much time on their hands can work out exactly how many subs we've made and how many times Tadic has been replaced compared to everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Despite not firing on all cylinders, we're 2 points away from 6th place with Christmas on the horizon. I'd have taken that scenario at the beginning of the season. Happy days The voice of reason, so would I!....Plus I have faith and expectation of an improvement in understanding between the players, it's taken longer for that to manifest itself this year over last but, in my optimistic opinion, will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 I spoke to Erwin, Ronald and many players after the match and what impressed me the most was how positive everybody outwardly spoke. Nobody criticized anybody, everybody seemed to take the pluses from the game, some couldn't wait for training on Monday. We on this forum (including myself) get too negative. We are in a phase where things are not working as we would want. It will change and we should be patient and not pile our everyday frustrations on the back of our team. It will change. Good to hear. (I despair to see that this thread has descended into an anti-Long rant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Despite not firing on all cylinders, we're 2 points away from 6th place with Christmas on the horizon. I'd have taken that scenario at the beginning of the season. Happy days I look at it as "had we beaten Stoke and Villa, which we probably would do more often than not, we'd be level on points with 5th". We're still pretty sound, and when it comes down to it, 6th-12th looks like it's going to be down to the odd bounce of the ball or dodgy decision this season and I don't think anyone expected us to push on to top 6 having lost Schneiderlin and Alderweireld (and Clyne), and with the distraction of various cups, did they? Apart from anything, opposing teams don't see us as a safe game for resting players any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggytrousers Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 I'm with you Trousers. I think we have yet to see the best from this squad and am optimistic about what we can achieve once it is firing on all cylinders. Mane and Tadic can worry any defence and I am sure there is a lot more to Clasie than we have seen so far. Totally agree with this. Clasie is a lot better player than he's shown so far. Mane and Tadic have undoubted ability but are falling a bit short when it comes to the end product at the mo. A couple of games where these pieces click into place and our season will start to get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Totally agree with this. Clasie is a lot better player than he's shown so far. And how do you know that exactly, he came from a weak league, even some of our dutch contributors have decried him. Stats in the dutch league are exactly that, they are not transmutable to other leagues. Gaston was pretty good in Italy, total disaster in the PL, You may want him to be better than he actually is just now but it's by no means a certainty that it's going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 And how do you know that exactly, he came from a weak league, even some of our dutch contributors have decried him. Stats in the dutch league are exactly that, they are not transmutable to other leagues. Gaston was pretty good in Italy, total disaster in the PL, You may want him to be better than he actually is just now but it's by no means a certainty that it's going to happen. Koeman knows the player very well and has faith in him. He has barely had a decent run of games yet. Bit early to write him off as a complete failure isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Koeman knows the player very well and has faith in him. He has barely had a decent run of games yet. Bit early to write him off as a complete failure isn't it? Trouble is, I personally don't have much faith in Koeman. We'll see, work in progress and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Trouble is, I personally don't have much faith in Koeman. We'll see, work in progress and all that. It's easy to talk a good game, Davis and JWP do regularly but it never translates onto the field. I'm not interested in false optimism only realism and I'm not impressed with Koeman's changing formation debacles and like for like or worse substitutions trying to get a result which more often than not make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biscuits Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Team can talk all the positivity they want. Only one thing matters - the sodding ball in the back of the oppositions net. I don't care how it gets there but it needs to get there one hell of a lot a lot more than it is currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Team can talk all the positivity they want. Only one thing matters - the sodding ball in the back of the oppositions net. I don't care how it gets there but it needs to get there one hell of a lot a lot more than it is currently. Or the opposition's ball not getting into our net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 It's easy to talk a good game, Davis and JWP do regularly but it never translates onto the field. I'm not interested in false optimism only realism and I'm not impressed with Koeman's changing formation debacles and like for like or worse substitutions trying to get a result which more often than not make things worse. How did the subs work out on Saturday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Otherwise fans will lose interest because of a perceived lack of ambition. You can lose interest if you want pal, I'm here for the duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Otherwise fans will lose interest because of a perceived lack of ambition. You mean all those fans who started turning up SMS when we got back to the PL...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 we have seen some good ..and very good football this season. Perhaps the win at Stamford Bridge is the stand-out result so far. The main problem is that we are back to playing only one "good " half in each game. There is no continuity and despite the choice of midfield " talent " we have available. Ronald Koeman doesn't seem to have found his best set-up yet. We lack real ball-winners, and I'm not as convinced as many that Wanyama's physical presence alone is the answer, and his passing leaves a lot to be desired. The strikers aren't getting the telling passes for breakaways, and Mane seems to be out of position.....(and still hasn't learnt to fall properly when he is fouled). There always seems to one pass too many in the last third, whereas other teams make the best of their chances and often shoot on sight. Our shots to goals ratio is poor, and in both the Liverpool and Villa games we had enough chances to have won both games in the first 20 mins. This is not the thread to start slanging out the shortcomings, but agree that most players CAN perform well, but they don't all do it on the same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 You can lose interest if you want pal, I'm here for the duration. Where did I say I would lose interest? Bit presumptuous of you. But fans will lose interest if the club stagnate. Happens with every club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 I spoke to Erwin, Ronald and many players after the match and what impressed me the most was how positive everybody outwardly spoke. Nobody criticized anybody, everybody seemed to take the pluses from the game, some couldn't wait for training on Monday. We on this forum (including myself) get too negative. We are in a phase where things are not working as we would want. It will change and we should be patient and not pile our everyday frustrations on the back of our team. It will change. Glad you got all your autographs pal. Did you ask them to sign your shirt as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 But only in the event of a draw between Palace and Everton this evening Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Where did I say I would lose interest? Bit presumptuous of you. But fans will lose interest if the club stagnate. Happens with every club. This club has been through more than a period of stagnation but the real fans stayed with the club. The plastics that have pitched up since we have been back in the Prem might fall away again but that is not the true fan base anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Where did I say I would lose interest? Bit presumptuous of you. But fans will lose interest if the club stagnate. Happens with every club. No club can move forward all the time? Even Man City and Chelsea who have chucked a billion pounds each at their teams can't be better than last year every season? Personally I am confident we still have a better squad than some of those around us and it will be close as to who finishes where in that middle section. That's no disgrace as all the teams are spending money either buying (cabaye, shaqri, benteke for example) or keeping (stones, that west brom forward etc) players to improve so If we have to improve every year or the fans will lose interest thats a bit sad and not very sportsmanlike. But maybe that's society now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 No club can move forward all the time? Even Man City and Chelsea who have chucked a billion pounds each at their teams can't be better than last year every season? Personally I am confident we still have a better squad than some of those around us and it will be close as to who finishes where in that middle section. That's no disgrace as all the teams are spending money either buying (cabaye, shaqri, benteke for example) or keeping (stones, that west brom forward etc) players to improve so If we have to improve every year or the fans will lose interest thats a bit sad and not very sportsmanlike. But maybe that's society now? It's about perceived ambition though. The club have been on an upward curve the last 6 years and we're in a space now where we are probably at our normalised level and any gains will be marginal. It is also fair to say that every player we have sold since we have been back in the Premier League has been to a bigger / better club who can offer more money. No complaints there from me - that is football and we get on with it. The club is in great financial health now and this summer we have the new TV deal along with new sponsorship and shirt manufacturer. We will have the ability to offer more wages and spend more money. Say we sold Mane for £30m and signed a player for £10m to replace him. And then spent another £10m on a couple of other players. Fans are going to lose interest because it appears like we aren't trying to push on. No-one is going to say that we should have kept Mane, but why can't we sign two £10m players and improve the team? This summer we only replaced one player with immediate quality and that was Alderweireld (who wasn't even ours) with VvD and look at the difference that made. Schneiderlin and Clyne left and it appears two players have replaced them both (Romeu and Clasie, and Cedric and Yoshida) who are not good enough right now and we've paid the price for it and aren't as good this season. That sort of stuff will turn fans off because they will wonder why we are doing this when the club are reporting profits etc. Of course half the problem is that we buy and develop good players - if we settled on having an average team with the odd signing here and there then perceived ambition wouldn't be a problem but as it goes the club talks up a big game these days and whilst I have sympathy with losing players (I don't think there is much the club can do there) this summers business was a little contradictory in my opinion which leaves a disconnect with what I see in the transfer market and what I hear as what the club wants to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 It's about perceived ambition though. The club have been on an upward curve the last 6 years and we're in a space now where we are probably at our normalised level and any gains will be marginal. It is also fair to say that every player we have sold since we have been back in the Premier League has been to a bigger / better club who can offer more money. No complaints there from me - that is football and we get on with it. The club is in great financial health now and this summer we have the new TV deal along with new sponsorship and shirt manufacturer. We will have the ability to offer more wages and spend more money. Say we sold Mane for £30m and signed a player for £10m to replace him. And then spent another £10m on a couple of other players. Fans are going to lose interest because it appears like we aren't trying to push on. No-one is going to say that we should have kept Mane, but why can't we sign two £10m players and improve the team? This summer we only replaced one player with immediate quality and that was Alderweireld (who wasn't even ours) with VvD and look at the difference that made. Schneiderlin and Clyne left and it appears two players have replaced them both (Romeu and Clasie, and Cedric and Yoshida) who are not good enough right now and we've paid the price for it and aren't as good this season. That sort of stuff will turn fans off because they will wonder why we are doing this when the club are reporting profits etc. Of course half the problem is that we buy and develop good players - if we settled on having an average team with the odd signing here and there then perceived ambition wouldn't be a problem but as it goes the club talks up a big game these days and whilst I have sympathy with losing players (I don't think there is much the club can do there) this summers business was a little contradictory in my opinion which leaves a disconnect with what I see in the transfer market and what I hear as what the club wants to achieve. In what way? Didn't we spend as much as we made? (genuine questions) I guess from your paragraphs I can infer that you would rather the club spent the fees we received for Schneiderlin and Clyne, on replacements for Schneiderlin and Clyne, but what with the Europa League (and the fixtures we anticipated), we did need to improve the squad (in terms of numbers - I make no comment about the quality). Plus we were down a CM because of Cork. Would you have preferred we spent ~£10m on a RB, ~£20m on a CM, and then padded the matchday squad with Harrison Reed, Seager, and Stephens/Turnbull? And that's without finding the money to fund VVD's transfer, obviously - I don't know enough about the financial health of the club to comment on whether we could've done that without incoming transfer fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 In what way? Didn't we spend as much as we made? (genuine questions) I guess from your paragraphs I can infer that you would rather the club spent the fees we received for Schneiderlin and Clyne, on replacements for Schneiderlin and Clyne, but what with the Europa League (and the fixtures we anticipated), we did need to improve the squad (in terms of numbers - I make no comment about the quality). Plus we were down a CM because of Cork. Would you have preferred we spent ~£10m on a RB, ~£20m on a CM, and then padded the matchday squad with Harrison Reed, Seager, and Stephens/Turnbull? And that's without finding the money to fund VVD's transfer, obviously - I don't know enough about the financial health of the club to comment on whether we could've done that without incoming transfer fees. Are transfer fees the club's only revenue source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 In what way? Didn't we spend as much as we made? (genuine questions) I guess from your paragraphs I can infer that you would rather the club spent the fees we received for Schneiderlin and Clyne, on replacements for Schneiderlin and Clyne, but what with the Europa League (and the fixtures we anticipated), we did need to improve the squad (in terms of numbers - I make no comment about the quality). Plus we were down a CM because of Cork. Would you have preferred we spent ~£10m on a RB, ~£20m on a CM, and then padded the matchday squad with Harrison Reed, Seager, and Stephens/Turnbull? And that's without finding the money to fund VVD's transfer, obviously - I don't know enough about the financial health of the club to comment on whether we could've done that without incoming transfer fees. I absolutely believe the club when they say that all the transfer fees received have been reinvested into the first team. I just question the approach (with the benefit of hindsight of course). The squad needed to improve but I don't think they only way that was possible was to the detriment of the first team. From memory this summer: Out: Schneiderlin (£24m) Clyne (£10m) In: VvD (£13m) Cedric (£4m) Clasie (£8m) Romeu (£5m) Juanmi (£5m) Martina (£1m) Plus the loans for Caulker and Stek to cover long term injuries. Transfer fee wise that is break even or so - and I suspect the wage bill has gone up too. My own personal preference would be to retain a good first 11 and use the Academy to fill out the squad. Reed and Stephens could do the jobs of Martina and Romeu (just my opinion - I know some like Reed and some don't). Juanmi was a peculiar signing that appeared driven off the fact he was available for just £5m rather than any need for him and him fitting into the way we play. So say that was £11m saved in transfer fees and wages there. Could we have got a better player than Clasie and Cedric? Or could we have spent that on a single player who would have made us better? It's hard to know the answer or if it was possible but for me it feels like that would have made us a better team and given us a better chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 (edited) I absolutely believe the club when they say that all the transfer fees received have been reinvested into the first team. I just question the approach (with the benefit of hindsight of course). The squad needed to improve but I don't think they only way that was possible was to the detriment of the first team. From memory this summer: Out: Schneiderlin (£24m) Clyne (£10m) In: VvD (£13m) Cedric (£4m) Clasie (£8m) Romeu (£5m) Juanmi (£5m) Martina (£1m) Plus the loans for Caulker and Stek to cover long term injuries. Transfer fee wise that is break even or so - and I suspect the wage bill has gone up too. My own personal preference would be to retain a good first 11 and use the Academy to fill out the squad. Reed and Stephens could do the jobs of Martina and Romeu (just my opinion - I know some like Reed and some don't). Juanmi was a peculiar signing that appeared driven off the fact he was available for just £5m rather than any need for him and him fitting into the way we play. So say that was £11m saved in transfer fees and wages there. Could we have got a better player than Clasie and Cedric? Or could we have spent that on a single player who would have made us better? It's hard to know the answer or if it was possible but for me it feels like that would have made us a better team and given us a better chance. The problem with one player though is obvious - injured out for long periods and still have to pay his large salary. It didn't work with Osvaldo or Gaston plus you unsettle the others if you break the wage structure. We need to rediscover our identity - for me that's getting back an English spine or capable players of an English spine. We need to recruit leaders as we don't have any from what I have seen this season. The club does not have to spend a fortune to put us right - in my opinion we have lost 6 points from not having a right back other than Cedric and I can't believe there isn't one available in the Championship/L1 that can do a job at a sensible price. Austin for me is worth a gamble as is Matt Phillips - the one thing we don't have in our squad is someone to change the game or style when required - a wide man in the squad would help us. We need a Mark Noble type of player to compliment what we have. Edited 8 December, 2015 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 The club does not have to spend a fortune to put us right - in my opinion we have lost 6 points from not having a right back other than Cedric and I can't believe there isn't one available in the Championship/L1 that can do a job at a sensible price. Sam Byram of Leeds. We were linked with a while back. Refused to sign new contract and now being linked to Everton and Sunderland, his price seems to have gone up now, £8m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 We have plenty of leaders out there, that really isn't 1 place we are short! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 How did the subs work out on Saturday? A lot better than Wednesday which meant it wasn't a debacle, against a team that had taken two points in thirteen games. Scrambled goal from a scuffed corner, really turned it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 Sam Byram of Leeds. We were linked with a while back. Refused to sign new contract and now being linked to Everton and Sunderland, his price seems to have gone up now, £8m. Sam Byram isn't a right back - he can't get in Leeds side and has been playing right wing for last 2 seasons according to my Leeds mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 We have plenty of leaders out there, that really isn't 1 place we are short! Really you have been watching a different team than me....not one player against Leicester, Liverpool, Man City took our team and rallied them - they just looked at the ground and hid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 My own personal preference would be to retain a good first 11 and use the Academy to fill out the squad. Reed and Stephens could do the jobs of Martina and Romeu (just my opinion - I know some like Reed and some don't). Juanmi was a peculiar signing that appeared driven off the fact he was available for just £5m rather than any need for him and him fitting into the way we play. So say that was £11m saved in transfer fees and wages there. Could we have got a better player than Clasie and Cedric? Or could we have spent that on a single player who would have made us better? It's hard to know the answer or if it was possible but for me it feels like that would have made us a better team and given us a better chance. Reed is not in the same universe as Romeu in terms of influence on a match (though this might change with game time we can't afford to give him). Stephens hasn't shown capability at this level at any point, Martina has at least had a couple of "looks ok" appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 A lot better than Wednesday which meant it wasn't a debacle, against a team that had taken two points in thirteen games. Scrambled goal from a scuffed corner, really turned it around. Each game is different. Did you expect Newcastle to beat Liverpool or Bournemouth to beat Chelsea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 Really you have been watching a different team than me....not one player against Leicester, Liverpool, Man City took our team and rallied them - they just looked at the ground and hid Definitely watching a different game if you didn't see Mane and Davis busting a gut against Liverpool all game long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 8 December, 2015 Share Posted 8 December, 2015 Definitely watching a different game if you didn't see Mane and Davis busting a gut against Liverpool all game long. There is a difference between what you and I think are leaders then, get sleeves rolled up , encourage, boll0ck others, gee them up and grab the game by the scruff of the neck and your idea of players busting a gut and trying. Brett Ormerod busted a gut would you say he was a leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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