Norm Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Robert Pires thinks (in the Evening Standard) that our Vic could be 'World Class' if he were to score more goals. Is he correct? Not in my eyes, he's not.
farawaysaint Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Strong, agile, great tackler he has many commendable attributes and is a brilliant dm for the league. He is lazy and lacks commitment to the cause though.
doddisalegend Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Vic would be great for Arsenal....if they buy Morgan to play along side him.
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 World class players look after the ball far more and have better concentration. He's very good at certain things and very bad at others - which means he'll be a player who will suit some roles and not others. He still has a lot of potential to fulfil though as relative to his age he hasn't played much football.
rooney Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Not world class with that passing ability. Extremely strong though.
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Too ponderous in my view. Solid and immovable in every sense of the word. That can be a good thing if others around him can take over the ball and start things moving with a crisp move and pass.
Webby Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 He's too bulky to be mobile. Oh and more goals? Really, he can't pass, what makes Pires think he can shoot?
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 farawaysaint said: Strong, agile, great tackler he has many commendable attributes and is a brilliant dm for the league. He is lazy and lacks commitment to the cause though. Agile? I've just noticed that bit
Saint Matty 76 Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Been found out without Schneiderlin, just like how Lovren didn't work at Liverpool without Fonte. Nowhere near good enough for Arsenal.
saint1977 Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 If Levy offers £15m (which I doubt he will), I'd take it. Victor has looked disinterested for much of this term and we need to freshen the first XI up in January, particularly the midfield. Loan JWP out to toughen him up and get a upgrade at CM to work with Davis and Clasie.
eurosaint Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 If anyone from Arsenal, Spurs or Liverpool are reading this, yes, he is world class and worth every penny of £30 mil ! For the rest of us however it would be nice to see him pass to a red and white striped shirt now and again
shurlock Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 I don't have a massive problem with vic's performances - just think he's having to overcompensate for the lack of cover around him.
Isla Wight Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Comes across as uninterested. Partly responsible for our failure to get through Euro group stages because of his strop. Gives the ball away too often too. Wouldn't be sad to see home leave. Can you tell I'm not a fan of his.
Saint Matty 76 Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 adriansfc said: Exactly what Arsenal need. They play Coquelin and Cazorla there for god's sake. Where did this notion that you have to be flawless or world class to play for arsenal come from? They need someone like Vic in front the defence keeping it simple and covering for their creative players. Vic isn't a great passer or finisher, Ozil isn't a great tackler...so what? Main problem isn't the loss of Morgan for him. It's playing with different people each week, weaker people, and clearly wanting to move. He is ready for a bigger club and stagnating a bit here now having watched so many others move on. Think it's best for both parties he goes. They said no sales in January, but we aren't going down, aren't competing for anything, and Clasie/Romeu could do a decent job there anyway with Davis/JWP/Reed other options. The Ozil point couldn't be more invalid. Arsenal's #10 doesn't need great tackling ability, however their DM needs to create play with quality passing ability. Something which Wanyama is absolute miles away from.
Batman Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Isla Wight said: Comes across as uninterested. Partly responsible for our failure to get through Euro group stages because of his strop. Gives the ball away too often too. Wouldn't be sad to see home leave. Can you tell I'm not a fan of his. I think he comes across as he always does. Just now, he does not have Forster in goal, Toby and clyne behind him and morgan next to him that is a killer for a club like ours and any player in his position this season would find it very hard going.
Verbal Kint Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 adriansfc said: Exactly what Arsenal need. They play Coquelin and Cazorla there for god's sake. Where did this notion that you have to be flawless or world class to play for arsenal come from? They need someone like Vic in front the defence keeping it simple and covering for their creative players. Vic isn't a great passer or finisher, Ozil isn't a great tackler...so what? Main problem isn't the loss of Morgan for him. It's playing with different people each week, weaker people, and clearly wanting to move. He is ready for a bigger club and stagnating a bit here now having watched so many others move on. Think it's best for both parties he goes. They said no sales in January, but we aren't going down, aren't competing for anything, and Clasie/Romeu could do a decent job there anyway with Davis/JWP/Reed other options. It would be absolutely hilarious to see Wanyama playing for Arsenal. Hilarious how out of place he'd look
WokingSaint Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Says it alll! eurosaint said: If anyone from Arsenal, Spurs or Liverpool are reading this, yes, he is world class and worth every penny of £30 mil ! For the rest of us however it would be nice to see him pass to a red and white striped shirt now and again
farawaysaint Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 Whitey Grandad said: Agile? I've just noticed that bit At least I didn't claim he was quick?
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2015 Posted 7 December, 2015 farawaysaint said: At least I didn't claim he was quick? 'Agile' always makes me think of this place in Montmartre: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapin_Agile
Golden Balls Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 If he could be at his best 100% of the time he would be fantastic. But his best is few and far between. He's a great presence in the side and a very good player for us. But his lack of consistency, passing ability and goals mean he wouldn't suit a top club yet. He can get away with it here. He won't get let off at a top 4 side.
The9 Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 Batman said: I think he comes across as he always does. Just now, he does not have Forster in goal, Toby and clyne behind him and morgan next to him that is a killer for a club like ours and any player in his position this season would find it very hard going. Especially if they're hanging around on the halfway line watching when they're meant to be defending. His lack of application is a big part of the problem at the moment.
verlaine1979 Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 Was brilliant last season, with and without MS. This season his defensive work is still good, but his passing has gone back to where it was during his first season. It seems like he really needs to be settled and to concentrate, otherwise his passing gets wayward. On his day though (and with a ref who doesn't constantly penalize him just for being bigger and stronger than his opponent) VW can dominate a midfield like very few others in his position.
Shropshire Saint Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 Cant see Spurs paying a lot of money him with the emergence of Alli and the re-invention of Dier as a DM. Dembele is playing well for them and with Eriksen playing as a No 10 they have a strong midfield with options. Ryan Mason, has been injured and can't get back into their side now that he is fit.
um pahars Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 Really rated him last season, but this season seems to have gone off the boil and looks a bit disinterested (in much the same way that Clyne's performances appeared to dip after his head was turned halfway through last season). Granted losing Morgan has probably exposed a few frailties, but just just can't help but think he would rather be elsewhere and is not giving 100%. (and of course my perspective is somewhat clouded by still thinking he was a prrikc for throwing a strop during that Euro run!!)
Convict Colony Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 Norm said: Robert Pires thinks (in the Evening Standard) that our Vic could be 'World Class' if he were to score more goals. Is he correct? Not in my eyes, he's not. Victor Wanyama is the only world class interviewer we have in the squad and his dedication to training overrides helping animals in distress, he is already world class.
The9 Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 um pahars said: Really rated him last season, but this season seems to have gone off the boil and looks a bit disinterested (in much the same way that Clyne's performances appeared to dip after his head was turned halfway through last season). Granted losing Morgan has probably exposed a few frailties, but just just can't help but think he would rather be elsewhere and is not giving 100%. (and of course my perspective is somewhat clouded by still thinking he was a prrikc for throwing a strop during that Euro run!!) I think you're probably right about his application, and I was pretty forgiving about the Euro impact.
Sheaf Saint Posted 8 December, 2015 Posted 8 December, 2015 Batman said: I think he comes across as he always does. Just now, he does not have Forster in goal, Toby and clyne behind him and morgan next to him that is a killer for a club like ours and any player in his position this season would find it very hard going. What does any of this have to do with his intermittent inability to control the ball or play a simple 10-yard pass?
Shance Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 He's far too limited a player to ever be considered world class. There'll never be a midfielder that's considered one of the best in the world if they consistently lose concentration, lose their man and/or can't pass for ****. Don't get me wrong, he can be class but he needs a runner next to him as he's lazy.
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 He has some weaknesses of course but also strengths and in his position is certainly the best player we have. Still young also and will be difficult to replace when he goes in the summer. Shouldn't be made a scapegoat for poor recent form.
david in sweden Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Webby said: He's too bulky to be mobile. Oh and more goals? Really, he can't pass, what makes Pires think he can shoot? ssssh!....let Arsenal spend their money and find out for themselves. (£20 million for starters, eh ?)
david in sweden Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Verbal Kint said: It would be absolutely hilarious to see Wanyama playing for Arsenal. Hilarious how out of place he'd look ...for us maybe ....with their £20 million in the bank.. and no-one tell me we couldn't find a better replacement....
berkshiresaint Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Dare I say it but Romeo will be just fine as a replacement, if not slightly better.
david in sweden Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 berkshiresaint said: Dare I say it but Romeo will be just fine as a replacement, if not slightly better. Yes ....say it . I'm starting to get the same feeling.
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 berkshiresaint said: Dare I say it but Romeo will be just fine as a replacement, if not slightly better. Who is the Schneiderlin replacement then? It isn't Clasie in terms of the attributes Morgan brought (stamina, agility, pressing, control of a game)
doddisalegend Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Saint Charlie said: Who is the Schneiderlin replacement then? It isn't Clasie in terms of the attributes Morgan brought (stamina, agility, pressing, control of a game) There isn't going to be a like for like replacement for Morgan. Anyone as good (or better) than Morgan is never going to come to saints and we could never afford them anyway. If you are waiting for us to sign a player who is going to come and pick up where Morgan left off you could be waiting a long time.
shurlock Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Wanyama has a strop; and too many precious flowers on here are unable to see past that and acknowledge what a good player he is. Bitter, biased, nah
Verbal Kint Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 shurlock said: Wanyama has a strop; and too many precious flowers on here are unable to see past that and acknowledge what a good player he is. Bitter, biased, nah I genuinely don't think he's that good. He can't pass, his first touch is consistently abysmal and he doesn't score goals. He's a beast in one v one battles but that's his only strength as a player, and his dreadful performances this season are probably a combination of him not being arsed and also not having one of the best defensive midfielders in the league next to him anymore. You can forgive the lack of goals for a defensive midfielder, but passing ability and first touch are prerequisites for being a good player and he doesn't have them. I'd be very surprised if there is any possible move for him in the summer. Not good enough for the big boys and Spurs will have realised now that they have better midfielders than him already, so where is he going to go? We don't know for sure if the rumoured 16 million bid last summer was true (I highly doubt it personally), but if it was then it's another poor decision to reject it and we'll be lucky to get 8-10 million for him next summer with only a year left on his contract.
Special K Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Verbal Kint said: I genuinely don't think he's that good. He can't pass, his first touch is consistently abysmal and he doesn't score goals. He's a beast in one v one battles but that's his only strength as a player, and his dreadful performances this season are probably a combination of him not being arsed and also not having one of the best defensive midfielders in the league next to him anymore. You can forgive the lack of goals for a defensive midfielder, but passing ability and first touch are prerequisites for being a good player and he doesn't have them. I'd be very surprised if there is any possible move for him in the summer. Not good enough for the big boys and Spurs will have realised now that they have better midfielders than him already, so where is he going to go? We don't know for sure if the rumoured 16 million bid last summer was true (I highly doubt it personally), but if it was then it's another poor decision to reject it and we'll be lucky to get 8-10 million for him next summer with only a year left on his contract. He has a successful pass completion rate of over 82%, which not bad for a DF in the league, although Morgan's was nearer 90% last season. That's where Big Vic is "looking" weaker. Last season he would win the ball, followed by a simple pass to either CB or Morgan and we kept the ball more often. He doesn't have that this season, although it doesn't mean he is a bad player - he's doing what he's always done, but we haven't replaced Morgan with a player who is anything like as reliable. He's not a bad player at all, but he's having to find more this season and be more accountable and this will take time. I agree that he may not be good enough for a top 4 team though.
davefizzy14 Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Victor has responded to that false speculation that was started by Pires -a completely professsional aproach from Big Vic. I wish some people would get off his back, at times this season he had to cover both midfield postions & has played on after suffering some heavy knocks - the Liverpool away game springs to mind. http://www.allarsenal.com/2015/12/arsenalrumours/premier-league-midfielder-responds-to-arsenal-transfer-speculation/
Matthew Le God Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 davefizzy14 said: Victor has responded to that false speculation that was started by Pires -a completely professsional aproach from Big Vic. I wish some people would get off his back, at times this season he had to cover both midfield postions & has played on after suffering some heavy knocks - the Liverpool away game springs to mind. http://www.allarsenal.com/2015/12/arsenalrumours/premier-league-midfielder-responds-to-arsenal-transfer-speculation/ Why do you think it was false? The story wasn't that Arsenal want to sign Wanyama, it was that in Pires opinion Wanyama would be a good signing for Arsenal (whether that is accurate or not is irrlevant) and the two are very different. It can only be false if Pires didn't say it.
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Pires was down in Nairobi the other day and probably felt the need to say good things about a Kenyan footballer for the occasion. He probably only knows anything about Wanyama so he made the throw away comment that he was good enough to play for Arsenal. That's probably about all there was of it. Could have said any PL or Continental team but Arsenal probably carried more weight to his soundbite so he said that.
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 doddisalegend said: There isn't going to be a like for like replacement for Morgan. Anyone as good (or better) than Morgan is never going to come to saints and we could never afford them anyway. If you are waiting for us to sign a player who is going to come and pick up where Morgan left off you could be waiting a long time. Obviously its nigh on impossible to replace the quality of Morgan but we haven't even signed a player with similar attributes. Attributes that were very key to the success of the team the prior two seasons and which have been noticeably lacking in any of our current central midfielders.
Give it to Ron Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 I saw Kondogbia play recently and he looks an upgrade on Big Vic. If Arsenal have any sense they will sign him rather than Vic Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
svetigpung Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Where is Vic's head nowdays. It's not with his teammates. Maybe for short periods of a game but then it seems to wander.
Goatboy Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 svetigpung said: Where is Vic's head nowdays. It's not with his teammates. Maybe for short periods of a game but then it seems to wander. I suppose it's only right. When I watch Vic play for us now my mind wanders to Kanté at Leicester.
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2015 Posted 9 December, 2015 Give it to Ron said: I saw Kondogbia play recently and he looks an upgrade on Big Vic. If Arsenal have any sense they will sign him rather than Vic Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don't think Arsenal are even interested in him actually. Spurs still may be but they probably won't pay the asking price, they never do.,
Cosmic Posted 10 December, 2015 Posted 10 December, 2015 Special K said: He has a successful pass completion rate of over 82%, which not bad for a DF in the league, although Morgan's was nearer 90% last season. That's where Big Vic is "looking" weaker. Last season he would win the ball, followed by a simple pass to either CB or Morgan and we kept the ball more often. He doesn't have that this season, although it doesn't mean he is a bad player - he's doing what he's always done, but we haven't replaced Morgan with a player who is anything like as reliable. He's not a bad player at all, but he's having to find more this season and be more accountable and this will take time. I agree that he may not be good enough for a top 4 team though. This (like so many others) is a meaningless stat. It doesn't take into account what type of pass the player attempts. Centre backs often have a PC rate of 90% simply because they usually play short, simple passes. To be honest, if a midfielder has a very high PC rate, more often that not I take it as a sign that he doesn't show enough ambition or try to pass the ball forward enough. Four of the top nine in the PC stats this season are centre backs, and only one has either an assist or averages at least one key pass per game (both Cazorla). But yes, given that Wanyama usually tries to keep it very simple, 82% is pretty poor.
DuncanRG Posted 10 December, 2015 Posted 10 December, 2015 (edited) Arsenal make Victor Wanyama their number one January transfer target (John Cross/Mirror) Names Porto's Gianelli Imbula as a potential replacement we've been looking at. Discuss. Edited 10 December, 2015 by DuncanRG
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2015 Posted 10 December, 2015 DuncanRG said: Arsenal make Victor Wanyama their number one January transfer target (John Cross/Mirror) Be amazed if we sold in Jan, although as his contract is running down you never know if somebody did put in a huge offer. Imagine he will just go in the summer though and despite iffy form of late is still our best central midfielder.
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2015 Posted 10 December, 2015 DuncanRG said: Arsenal make Victor Wanyama their number one January transfer target (John Cross/Mirror) Names Porto's Gianelli Imbula as a potential replacement we've been looking at. Discuss. Will this be the same as Morgan is definitely going to Arsenal stories from last season...
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