stevy777_x Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 We seem to getting tonked every week by very high scorelines. I know it's not all about results and producing players for the 1st team, but why are getting beaten up by nearly every team we play? Bad coaching? Talentless players? Not playing as a team? Players being played above their normal age groups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 We have a fair number on loan and are thus playing boys up but we have always been this way it seems the supply chain lower down is either not that good or needs longer to coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 Could this simply be a hangover from our time around 2008/09? The youngsters who should have entered the academy at that time as 11 year olds didn't due to cut backs and now we are having a barren spell as those age groups now come through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 They've all given up because they know that Koeman hates young players and will only play wizened old shrivelled up old timers like Virgil, Clasie, and James Ward Prowse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 Does seem to be a lack of continuity of the coaches. Fleming was brought in as an assistant and then took the main job despite a relative lack of experience in youth coaching. But ultimately it must be the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 U21's have players on loan as they aren't good enough to make the step up (or aren't getting a chance) and U21 football will stifle their development. The better U18's then get bumped up which leaves them short but the coaching / management at U18 level has been an issue ever since Dodd and Williams left. I don't know the exact reason they left but the rumour was that they (read: Les Reed) wanted a more modern approach to the coaching. Anthony Limbrick was the U16 coach at the time and highly thought of and the club were aware that the U18's weren't going to be that good so for the sake of continuity they appointed Limbrick. However, at the end of his first season it was clear that whilst he was a good coach as a Manager he had some areas lacking, particularly around his experience of the game. Craig Fleming was brought in to help him. This summer Limbrick went back to Australia - again I don't know the reasons but Fleming now appears to have assumed the role of U18 Manager. Is he suited to it? I am not sure. However, the U18's are lacking in talent - only a few U16's got scholarships and the rest of the group who are new are made up of rejects from other Academies (from bigger clubs like Arsenal and Chelsea). The reason our intake is lacking is because these are the kids that joined us as nippers (8 - 10) during our plummet down the leagues when our scouting and set-up was not as good and other clubs could make better offers. So it will be lean for a few years but things should pick up again in 2-3 years which is effectively when intakes post-takeover will start to come through. As for the U21's I don't know why Martin Hunter wasn't at the Norwich game on Monday night so it will be interesting to see what the news is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 I expect they all flaunt around like they've made it already when the truth is your lucky to get two out of the cohort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 I expect they all flaunt around like they've made it already when the truth is your lucky to get two out of the cohort. Yeah - it's probably that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 The U21s won away at Spurs this evening. At ease. Latest meltdown over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 U21's back to their usual efficient self tonight - a very good 2-0 win away at Spurs who were unbeaten in 8. Spurs the better team but Saints very organised and professional and made the most of their chances. Martin Hunter back in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 Bipolar results. 7-2 at Norwich and then 0-2 tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 December, 2015 Share Posted 7 December, 2015 SPURS 0-2 SAINTS .....(I watched most of this on Spurs link which was free for this game) Matt Targett scored with a free kick just on HT. Spurs played Andros Townsend and most their attacking efforts seemed directed via him. He was well-marshalled by the Saints defence and although Spurs were dominant for 20 mins.or so after the break, they went a bit flat after Townsend went off. Spurs put on attacking subs. in an effort to get back into the game, but paid the price when Josh Sims broke away with a run and beat the oncoming Spurs keeper. 2-0 Saints were looking stronger at the back and Gazzaniga was there to make saves when needed, and was helped by some wayward shooting by the Spurs strikers. Spurs played quite a physical game and Saints were awarded around a dozen free-kicks in the 2nd half, and the tricky Josh Hesketh (who was fouled for the Saints first goal) was a victim on many occasions, and three or four Saints players needed the medics on for treatment in the second half. Two Saints players got yellow cards in the last 10 minutes, but the Spurs players went unpunished, when at least 2 of them were lucky not to get a red at some stage. A good solid performance for the U21's which put a run of defeats behind them, but unfortunately they have only one more league game before mid January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted 9 December, 2015 Share Posted 9 December, 2015 Many thanks to those above who provided reports/insight into the current youth happenings. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 9 December, 2015 Share Posted 9 December, 2015 Bipolar results. 7-2 at Norwich and then 0-2 tonight! Upto ...three (?) over-age players are allowed in U21 games and Norwich put out a strong side that night. Although scoring first we conceded 4 goals in 10 minuted in the first half , after which there was no way back. Although we looked much better second half, Norwich then came with several late goals. It was a nightmare debut for U18 full back Bakary and Saints were without the services of three regular strikers. 2-7 although decisive didn't reflect the whole game. Some results reflect the choice of line-up, although even Spurs came unstuck when including England () player Andros Townsend, who was properly sewn-up by Targett and the Saints' defenders. Even the additional height /weight advantage in the Spurs midfield was not equal to the skills of Sims, Seager, McQueen and Hesketh. NOTED: Sunderland has an excellent U21 side (top of table) whereas their first team is in the Prem's bottom three. Wonder if Sam looks at them at all?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllSorts Posted 9 December, 2015 Share Posted 9 December, 2015 The trouble with u21 football is the inconsistency of lineups. One week the teams have U18 or even U17 players in the squad other days there may be 3/4 recovering/frozen-out first team players. Saints U21s record this season so far shows that without McQueen playing they struggle. I suspect there may be a case for Gazzaniga also having a positive major bearing on Saints U21 winning too. U21 stats with/without McQueen Result Opponents Home/Away McQueen playing McQueen scoring W 2-0 Spurs A Yes 0 L 2-7 Norwich A No L 0-2 Everton H No L 0-2 Sunderland H Yes 0 W 5-2 Reading A Yes 1 W 3-1 Leicester H Yes 1 D 1-1 Middlesbrough H Yes 0 W 3-1 Chelsea A Yes 2 D 2-2 Man City H Yes 0 Win ratio With McQueen P7 W4 D2 L1 57% Without McQueen P2 W0 D0 L2 0% I think it was McQueen who was fouled in the incident that led to the first goal but I may be wrong. I was watching at the Lamex so had no chance to rewind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2015 Share Posted 9 December, 2015 Also there is such a gap between U21 football and PL football. Someone like Seager scores better than 1 in 2 at U21 level yet isnt seen as a viable option for the first team, even off the bench. Similarly Gallagher was an U21 regular and can't get a game for a struggling MK Dons side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 9 December, 2015 Share Posted 9 December, 2015 Also there is such a gap between U21 football and PL football. Someone like Seager scores better than 1 in 2 at U21 level yet isnt seen as a viable option for the first team, even off the bench. Similarly Gallagher was an U21 regular and can't get a game for a struggling MK Dons side. Yeah, I think had Sam joined MK Dons when they were in League 1, he'd have probably featured more. I remember that they signed a couple of strikers straight after they signed Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 9 December, 2015 Share Posted 9 December, 2015 Also there is such a gap between U21 football and PL football. Someone like Seager scores better than 1 in 2 at U21 level yet isnt seen as a viable option for the first team, even off the bench. Just saying "PL football" is too broad. Its significantly harder to get on some Premier League team benches than others. The quality standard at Saints means any youngster is competing with senior internationals in every position (multiple ones in quite a few positions). That isn't the case at all clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2015 Share Posted 9 December, 2015 Just saying "PL football" is too broad. Its significantly harder to get on some Premier League team benches than others. The quality standard at Saints means any youngster is competing with senior internationals in every position (multiple ones in quite a few positions). That isn't the case at all clubs. U21 football doesn't prepare players for the quality needed to play in a PL starting XI then. Besides, few U21 regulars make any PL benches apart from in times of an injury crisis. Look at the main players we have brought through into the first team setup with success and few spent more than a year playing U21 football before making the step up. Because they were just better players. The U21 league is mostly made up of players who will end up in the lower leagues. There is no obvious solution either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 FA Youth Cup 3rd round tonight at St Marys v Birmingham City, £3 adults , £1 concessions . 7pm kick off. Well worth going along for those of you interested in seeing the current batch of academy players. Good to get a few fans down there to support the lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Well that'll be another Cup game lost then. Sh*t keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Well that'll be another Cup game lost then. Sh*t keeper. He is the one we got from Shrewsbury I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 3-0 now. The U18's aren't very good at all this year. Time to bump Slattery up to the U21's and keep him there as games with the U18's aren't going to do him any good in my opinion. Lack of talent and I'm not too convinced by Fleming either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 He is the one we got from Shrewsbury I think. If that's what we're planning on moving to the next level with in a few years time we need to abandon all hope. It's just pure junk. Saints U18s now 3 down after less than 20 minutes. Birmingham look so much more robust and efficient (except their keeper, he looks about as crap as ours). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M271 Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 U18s are 3 - 0 down after 20 mins to Birmingham, we were playing really well earlier in the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Only watched for 5mins but we are utter gash as Alpine would say. The coaching setup is certainly interesting. Lots of change in recent years and the current coaches at U18 level don't seem to have a massive youth pedigree when given the rep of our academy we could surely attract the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Keep the faith we still have time to come back in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Keep the faith we still have time to come back in this. It's going to help if we stop overhitting every second pass. It's really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Playing staff as a whole having a bit of a mare lately , we need another "team bonding trip" imo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Pumping the ball 50 yards into the wind is not going to get us back in the game. It's almost like 5 years ago where the whole club was rotting away with confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 U18s are 3 - 0 down after 20 mins to Birmingham, we were playing really well earlier in the season! Bear in mind that Birmingham u18s are in the second level of the u18 Professional Development League, i.e. 2 levels below Saints in the u18 Premier League. This is the level that we should be seeing new youngsters coming through, rather than the u21, and frankly we have become gash, in the words of Alpine. It is very worrying how bad our much lauded academy has become, we should be able to teach the Americans a thing or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Are any of under 18s playing in the under 21s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 Are any of under 18s playing in the under 21s? They may be, but think tonight is as near to full strength for the u18s, because its the FA Youth Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2015 Share Posted 10 December, 2015 They may be, but think tonight is as near to full strength for the u18s, because its the FA Youth Cup. ah well guess we won't be seeing any new academy boys in the first team for a few seasons then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 11 December, 2015 Share Posted 11 December, 2015 Final score 2-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 11 December, 2015 Share Posted 11 December, 2015 Playing staff as a whole having a bit of a mare lately , we need another "team bonding trip" imo ! ....you mean like walking on hot coals?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 11 December, 2015 Share Posted 11 December, 2015 ....you mean like walking on hot coals?...... I was thinking more skiing and ice hockey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blair3 Posted 12 December, 2015 Share Posted 12 December, 2015 If players like Reed, Seager, Hesketh, McQueen, Target are not going to be involved with the first team they need to go out on loan and not to Championship or lower league teams, they need to go abroad and play in the top divisions of places like the Netherlands and Belgium, both leagues are well known for giving young players and chance and producing some very talented players. Most teams in these leagues will not have the money to sign a team of full internationals like most Premier League teams do so they have to give young players a chance. Our younger players need to be playing at a higher, more skilled level of football than what they would play in England. Chelsea do it with many of their best young players, three played against us in the Europa League, and those players are know better than our youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 13 December, 2015 Share Posted 13 December, 2015 If players like Reed, Seager, Hesketh, McQueen, Target are not going to be involved with the first team they need to go out on loan and not to Championship or lower league teams, two things. ONE - I think some of them may be involved before the end of the season.....between injuries and poor form there aren't many more to choose from... TWO - there really isn't that much depth if the U21 /U18 sides. We try to bring younger players, but 5 U18 lads have had some game time with the U21 side (mainly due to injury problems at the higher level), and the Youth Cup side (lost to Birmingham last week) included a 15 year old full back ...who (to his credit) looked OK for the day - and considering the negative result - However, there is a long way to go before expecting them to be good enough for the First team bench - let alone thinking we've found another Shaw or Chambers. Targett is adequate cover for Bertrand, but will not replace him whilst Bertrand is England's left back. I'd like to see Ryan Seager get a few sub.apps of more than 5 mins. Sam Mc Queen has been very unlucky with injuries in the past year, and Hesketh (who is a very talented MF) looks more frail than Clasie and would get cut to pieces by some of the Prem. defenders. Perhaps Reed would be worth a loan-out, but he does seem to collect yellow /red cards with an alarming frequency. Except for Turnbull and Stephens very successful loan(s) to Swindon, most lower clubs seem to want a " loan player " just to make up the numbers on their benches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 U21s 2 nil down in first 20 mins away to Man City this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 U21s 2 nil down in first 20 mins away to Man City this evening. Man City have invested a ridiculous amount of money into their Academy. Their youth teams are very good. None will be given a chance at the club which is a shame but it's no issue getting a thumping from a team that has players purchased for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Yeah City's Academy sides are very good. I think in their U13s or 14s they put nearly double figures past United this season. Iheanacho is starting for them tonight and he has as many leagues goals this season as Shano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Seager pulls one back from a spot kick on the stroke of half time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Had some really good chances to get a better result. Played some decent stuff against a very good City side. Doing better Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 So what's happened to Hunter...did we ever find out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 been thinking about this recently. yes I think that it's a shame we don't have more youth coming through in this years squad. however, what I realised was also that other than the youth team and steven davis, we really don't have any mature, proven or reliable premier league first teamers from the UK. not saying it's a bad thing, but the likes of sunderland, stoke, palace, leicester, all have british first teamers who have been around a while, proven themselves in championship or premier league for years. all our players in the first team are either not homegrown or else foreign. bit of a change these last two seasons in that regard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 been thinking about this recently. yes I think that it's a shame we don't have more youth coming through in this years squad. however, what I realised was also that other than the youth team and steven davis, we really don't have any mature, proven or reliable premier league first teamers from the UK. not saying it's a bad thing, but the likes of sunderland, stoke, palace, leicester, all have british first teamers who have been around a while, proven themselves in championship or premier league for years. all our players in the first team are either not homegrown or else foreign. bit of a change these last two seasons in that regard To be fair we'd have one of the best homegrown teams in Premier League history if the big clubs hadn't wanted all the players. When we received big money for them it probably didn't make sense to then pay big money for other homegrown players if the club thought that more value existed outside the UK. It's hard to then just replace with youth products and it will be a dry few years compared to what we are used to because a) we're at a higher level than ever before, and b) the intakes that are coming through now are either players released from other Academies or players who joined us at 8/9/10 when we were on our decline and not recruiting as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 To be fair we'd have one of the best homegrown teams in Premier League history if the big clubs hadn't wanted all the players. When we received big money for them it probably didn't make sense to then pay big money for other homegrown players if the club thought that more value existed outside the UK. It's hard to then just replace with youth products and it will be a dry few years compared to what we are used to because a) we're at a higher level than ever before' date=' and b) the intakes that are coming through now are either players released from other Academies or players who joined us at 8/9/10 when we were on our decline and not recruiting as well.[/quote'] yup all fair points, I think it's expected, if not disappointing trouble is there seems to be more risk with seeking players outside the UK. I mean when is charlie adam, albrighton etc. ever going to play for anyone else? minimal chance of them playing for another prem club, but no chance of them playing abroad. but for almost all our players they'd consider a move (or came from...) to a foreign league. just more risk as more potential options for moving somewehere that isn't staying insouthampton it's not a be all end all situation, and don't get me wrong I quite like the diversity in the squad and the fact we've got a lot of int'ls, but the benefit of local/homegrown or the very least English players like we're used to is that they are more likely to stick around, giving more of a stable wider squad (even if they aren't in the matchday team each weak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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