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Steklenberg


Kaiser Soze

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I genuinly can't remember the last time this usless **** made a save.

 

Give me a pair of gloves and I'd probably do better.

 

 

 

Last night (albeit after letting all the other 6 of a total of 7 shots on target in).

 

The basic point that he ain't too hot on making saves (which, let's face it, is an important part of a goalkeeper's skill set) is a valid one though. Good distribution alone does not a good keeper make.

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Which shots last night should he have saved?

 

Quite. You give Prem strikers the amount of space and time we did around the box last night and if they put it where they want to no-one's stopping it. Even the one which went under him was first time from 6 yards out, he had no chance.

 

FWIW he also didn't need to save Can's late effort which was going wide.

 

Thought he was pretty good on Saturday too, took some balls to grab the one with the two City forwards sliding in, and did well to block the initial effort in those conditions and then grab the rebound just in time.

 

He had one slightly wonky kick yesterday but mostly his kicking was excellent - especially given the number of times we rolled it to him under pressure in the second half.

 

If he was getting a hand to things and not stopping them I think I'd be a lot more critical than I am of him not getting to things smashed past him, and I'm fairly sure he couldn't be expected to get to that one Lallana corner which bounced on the opposite touchline. :D

Edited by The9
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http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/stats?competition=1&season=2015&category=GOALKEEPING&pos=0&team=0&splitType=0&sort=13&sortOrder=0

 

In raw statistics, he is currently 18th out all PL keepers in terms of saves made - with Mignolet above him and Hart below. However, he sits 16th in the number of 'shots on target' according to this table, facing fewer than Mignolet, Lloris, Cech, and Schmeichel.

 

Read into this what you wish.

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http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/stats?competition=1&season=2015&category=GOALKEEPING&pos=0&team=0&splitType=0&sort=13&sortOrder=0

 

In raw statistics, he is currently 18th out all PL keepers in terms of saves made - with Mignolet above him and Hart below. However, he sits 16th in the number of 'shots on target' according to this table, facing fewer than Mignolet, Lloris, Cech, and Schmeichel.

 

Read into this what you wish.

 

Point of order, he's 18th out of 32 keepers, as opposed to the 18th of 20 that people might assume. Also joint 7th in "wins", fwiw.

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Really depends how you're rating him. I wouldn't expect a poor keeper to save any of them. I'd expect a decent premier league keeper to save at least a couple of them. Why is it keepers on here are judged only on doing the absolute bare minimum? Skeklenberg is very average and concedes slightly soft goals too often. Far better than he was at Fulham, but let's not pretend all those goals were brilliant impossible to stop shots. He had a slight chance with most of them.

 

I don't think he's conceded any "slightly soft" goals. The point is that if you let strikers have time and space you have to be lucky as well as good.

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Really depends how you're rating him. I wouldn't expect a poor keeper to save any of them. I'd expect a decent premier league keeper to save at least a couple of them. Why is it keepers on here are judged only on doing the absolute bare minimum? Skeklenberg is very average and concedes slightly soft goals too often. Far better than he was at Fulham, but let's not pretend all those goals were brilliant impossible to stop shots. He had a slight chance with most of them.

 

First goal was out of his reach - very slight chance

Second was at point blank range - I'd be amazed at any prem keeper saving that

Third - coming through a crowd of players with a deflection just ahead of him - no chance

Fourth - Ibe fires in low and hard - difficult for a big keeper to get down that quickly, but more chance than with the first three

Fifth - point blank header - no chance just like the second

Sixth - can't remember as I've blanked it out

 

All in all he shouldn't be taking more than his share of the blame after that game. I would prefer to criticize how exposed he was by our defensive performance and by RK's tactics (3 at the back, taking off Cedric).

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First goal was out of his reach - very slight chance

Second was at point blank range - I'd be amazed at any prem keeper saving that

Third - coming through a crowd of players with a deflection just ahead of him - no chance

Fourth - Ibe fires in low and hard - difficult for a big keeper to get down that quickly, but more chance than with the first three

Fifth - point blank header - no chance just like the second

Sixth - can't remember as I've blanked it out

 

All in all he shouldn't be taking more than his share of the blame after that game. I would prefer to criticize how exposed he was by our defensive performance and by RK's tactics (3 at the back, taking off Cedric).

 

Yeah this. After the game I can't remember being ****ed off at Stek at all to be honest.

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First goal was out of his reach - very slight chance

Second was at point blank range - I'd be amazed at any prem keeper saving that

Third - coming through a crowd of players with a deflection just ahead of him - no chance

Fourth - Ibe fires in low and hard - difficult for a big keeper to get down that quickly, but more chance than with the first three

Fifth - point blank header - no chance just like the second

Sixth - can't remember as I've blanked it out

 

 

Sixth was the header. Fifth was Origi smashing one off the underside of the bar. Again, very little chance with it.

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If no goal keeper could have saved them last night then there would be loads of high scoring games.

 

How do you work that out? A lot of shots are much closer to the keeper and easier to save. I doubt if any other keeper would have done much better with what he had to deal with last night. There wasn't one soft goal amongst them in terms of something which he really should have stopped.

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There wouldn't, because most teams don't allow that kind of space and time around the box.

 

So what you are saying is that all the other teams defences play all the time is so spot on that the shooting chances are always reduced to saveable ones and there wasn't a shot the other night that a keeper good enough for the tenth best team in England could save.

 

As Adrian said why are we prepared to blame our defence but not put any blame on the keeper.

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Reckon Stek has been pretty good overall, certainly not at fault for any of the dirty Scousers goals. But after thinking about it I also can't remember him making a save for us yet. Eishhh...

 

I cant think of many goals that he has had much of a chance with to be fair.

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You look at some of the keeper mistakes going on around the Premier League and he looks a safe pair of hands.

 

If anyone thinks he was to blame the other night please do list the 4 or 5 he should have saved....

He was just horribly exposed to lethal finishing.

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http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/stats?competition=1&season=2015&category=GOALKEEPING&pos=0&team=0&splitType=0&sort=13&sortOrder=0

 

In raw statistics, he is currently 18th out all PL keepers in terms of saves made - with Mignolet above him and Hart below. However, he sits 16th in the number of 'shots on target' according to this table, facing fewer than Mignolet, Lloris, Cech, and Schmeichel.

 

Read into this what you wish.

 

Still better than Boruc, which is progress for us. :)

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You look at some of the keeper mistakes going on around the Premier League and he looks a safe pair of hands.

 

If anyone thinks he was to blame the other night please do list the 4 or 5 he should have saved....

He was just horribly exposed to lethal finishing.

 

I think that's the key, I think the blame needs to go on the back of Caulker for leaving the biggest hole in CB that i've seen since the days of Alan Bennett and Chris Makin. He possibly would be annoyed at the shot which went under him (Moreno I think) but I imagine he's had a few words with the guys in front of him for allowing free shots for 60 mins.

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First goal was out of his reach - very slight chance

Second was at point blank range - I'd be amazed at any prem keeper saving that

Third - coming through a crowd of players with a deflection just ahead of him - no chance

Fourth - Ibe fires in low and hard - difficult for a big keeper to get down that quickly, but more chance than with the first three

Fifth - point blank header - no chance just like the second

Sixth - can't remember as I've blanked it out

 

All in all he shouldn't be taking more than his share of the blame after that game. I would prefer to criticize how exposed he was by our defensive performance and by RK's tactics (3 at the back, taking off Cedric).

 

Not sure I agree with this

 

First - can't remember the goal just Sturridge's smug face dancing in front of me

Second - no idea, too busy waiting for that tw*ttish dance again

Third - missed it, getting a beer

Fourth - down the other end, eyesight not good

Fifth - already left

Sixth - someone on their phone said " for f*cks sake"

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The blame game again. I wouldn't hold him responsible for any of the goals. We're not going to get a better stand in/back up keeper than Stecklenberg. Much better than Davies and Gazzaniga and I actually see the fact that you rarely notice him as a plus.

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I look at it this way...

 

If we'd bought a world-class top-notch keeper for £80m in the summer he still wouldn't have stopped all those goals on Wednesday night, maybe one at most.

 

But if we'd bought a couple of top-class defenders we would probably be looking up the train timetables for the semi-finals in January.

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I look at it this way...

 

If we'd bought a world-class top-notch keeper for £80m in the summer he still wouldn't have stopped all those goals on Wednesday night, maybe one at most.

 

But if we'd bought a couple more top-class defenders we would probably be looking up the train timetables for the semi-finals in January.

 

fixed it for you. VvD is a class defender .

However I think we have very little non home grown space in our squad now, think there are 16 of them so unless we can get some HG or U21s the manoeuvre margin is pretty limited, we'd have to dump Gaston or Gazza if we want more than 1 more non-HG.

Edited by Window Cleaner
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It's not how many of the six 'he should have saved' it's more the fact that he didn't save ANY. Put a shopping trolley in the middle of the goal with a keepers shirt on and at least one of those six hits it.

 

I don't think any of them went down the middle, probably because the player making the attempt was aiming to put the ball past the keeper and into the corners. We don't see a lot of that from our players so you're probably not used to seeing this sort of thing.

Edited by Whitey Grandad
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First goal was out of his reach - very slight chance

Second was at point blank range - I'd be amazed at any prem keeper saving that

Third - coming through a crowd of players with a deflection just ahead of him - no chance

Fourth - Ibe fires in low and hard - difficult for a big keeper to get down that quickly, but more chance than with the first three

Fifth - point blank header - no chance just like the second

Sixth - can't remember as I've blanked it out

 

All in all he shouldn't be taking more than his share of the blame after that game. I would prefer to criticize how exposed he was by our defensive performance and by RK's tactics (3 at the back, taking off Cedric).

 

4th was unmarked and he had all the time he needed to put it out of the keeper's reach, 5th (not 6th) was smashed from about 12 yards at a slight angle and went in off the underside of the bar/roof of the net and again no pressure on the ball.

 

I understand taking off Cedric as he was replaced by JWP at right wing back/right midfield - but then Davis played there and JWP was played inside, which made no sense at all. Can't defend the 3 at the back including Wanyama nor staying with it when it was obviously not working from the first time Wanyama touched the ball and didn't have a pass on.

 

In fact Stekelenburg's willingness to show for even dubious backpasses and deal with all but one kick perfectly was testament to his ability - no other keeper on Saints' books kicks anywhere near as well or as confidently, though Forster has more range.

Edited by The9
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I don't think any of them went down the middle, probably because the player making the attempt was aiming to put the ball past the keeper and into the corners. We don't see a lot of that from our players so you're probably not used to seeing this sort of thing.

 

One of the last ones was in the middle of the goal but basically went in off the bar and was absolutely hammered at him, so difficult to get to anyway. The second went under his body but he had no time to react to it as Sturridge took it first time on the half volley from about 7 or 8 yards and like most of the others, it was past him before he could move (and Sturridge probably would have scored the rebound off Stek's body anyway).

Edited by The9
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It's not how many of the six 'he should have saved' it's more the fact that he didn't save ANY. Put a shopping trolley in the middle of the goal with a keepers shirt on and at least one of those six hits it.

 

Except actually, the only one which might have hit a shopping trolley was also the only one Stekelenburg got anything on, which was also one of the two taken first time from close range, which proves that the problem was that for the other goals, the shooting players had too much time and space to choose where they were putting the ball for the keeper to do anything about it.

 

Forster MIGHT have done better with the second just due to his pure bulk, but he'd also have had more problems with some of the dodgy backpasses from Caulker and Wanyama at the start of the second half.

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So what you are saying is that all the other teams defences play all the time is so spot on that the shooting chances are always reduced to saveable ones and there wasn't a shot the other night that a keeper good enough for the tenth best team in England could save.

 

What I'm saying is having been given the time to make the shots they wanted to, Liverpool finished well, which numerous other sides haven't done in similar situations in other games. Mistakes by strikers in finishing, rather than goalkeepers making amazing saves, will cost teams goals more often than not. Goalkeepers can only do so much to affect situations, and their effect on the outcome will be far less significant when unmarked players have time to pick their finish.

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I'm slightly bemused at the criticism to be honest. He had very little chance with any of the goals against Liverpool, he had the Moreno shot covered until a deflection a couple of yards in front of him, the others were very clinical finishes. To blame him for the goal yesterday is just bizarre. His distribution is very good, he comes off his line well and he doesn't make mistakes. He probably doesn't make as many "wow" saves as Forster did but once Forster is back in the team people will appreciate just how solid Stekelenburg is as a rounded keeper. Forster's kicking was often terrible and he is rooted to his line always.

 

I doubt Stekelenburg will be interested in signing long term as number 2 and his wages are probably too much to justify him sitting on the bench, but he's been a very good loan in the circumstances

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Good back up. Way better than Kelvin. But God we need Fraser back. Steklenberg has let in too many soft goals in the last few games. It doesn't look like those ahead of him have much confidence.

 

I am sorry but which goals as he let in recently that have been soft?

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I am sorry but which goals as he let in recently that have been soft?

 

some stats on Stek

no idea how it compares but here they are

 

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/players/profile.statistics.html/maarten-stekelenburg#clubsTabsDefending

 

look at many of the teams around us, according to those stats, stek makes about 50% less saves than his opposite numbers

again, how they compile those stats is unknown

Edited by Batman
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I don't know what they mean either but they look to reflect on who the team is playing generally. If everyone is doing their job in front of the keeper he should have a lot less to do. When you get the time and space as Liverpool did the other night any keeper will struggle. Stek had done a good job for us this season as far as I can see. It is the cover in front of him that has been poor. I see he gets blamed for being rooted to the spot against Villa. What about his team mates around him that were also routed to the spot and watched the ball bobble pasr them?

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I'm struggling to understand the modern game's preoccupation with tall keepers, and - with Forster and Stek - we're fully bought into it.

 

The advantage of height is the ability to be strong in the air, but the holding and blocking mayhem in the box these days has made that a rather redundant skill for keepers. They don't seem to come for crosses anywhere near as much.

 

The disadvantage is that the higher centre of gravity makes it harder for tall keepers to get down to low shots. For me, that's a weakness of both Forster and Stek.

 

Shay Given was the reverse - too short to dominate his box but able to make great reaction saves.

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