Batman Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 1. If we can get £20m for Wanyama then do it quickly! He gives the ball away far too much. 2. Pelle needs supply, without it he is redundant 3. JWP needs to be loaned out 4. Caulker isn't any better than what we have already (FWIW Stephens cant get in the Middlesbrough team) 5. We desperately need width & pace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Point 5 being the most important............................................. How many of you were at the 6-2 Spurs game 20 years ago?? Getting beat by 4 or 5 goals used to be a regular occurrence................................ What do we expect? 4th lowest wage bill, negative net spenders, lack of pace, 30000 seater stadium, selling our best players...................RK has attempted a minor miracle, fortunately he succeeded & will continue to do so. then the club should stop talking about champions league aspirations. we hear it many times a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 1. We are not fit enough. 2. We do not close down enough. 3. These issues have been obvious for a long time but Koeman has not addressed them...... 4. Caulker should be sent home and never seen again. 5. We have several players just as good or better than Clasie 6. We need a Reed type player (hopefully slightly more skilful) who is more tenacious/fitter in midfield. 7. We only have three players as skilful as the Liverpool players...... Bertrand, Mane and Tadic, possibly Vic..... 8. Your Clasie's and JWP's will never be good enough for this league. 9. We need to be far more aggressive and stronger. 10. We have a lot of very average players but Koeman needs to up his game too! 11. The conceited attitude of our 'Black Box' department needs to brought back down a peg or two..... Sorry that's eleven but there are more than five things seriously needing attention...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 1. we need to change something as we have been very poor as an attacking force for a few weeks. Get mane in the no.10 position 2. We seem to only be able to close the opposition down for about 25 mins 3. I believe we are not as fit as a side compared to 12 months ago 4. Caulker needs to never start again 5. our squad has been padded out with some average players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 1. We are not fit enough. 2. We do not close down enough. 3. These issues have been obvious for a long time but Koeman has not addressed them...... 4. Caulker should be sent home and never seen again. 5. We have several players just as good or better than Clasie 6. We need a Reed type player (hopefully slightly more skilful) who is more tenacious/fitter in midfield. 7. We only have three players as skilful as the Liverpool players...... Bertrand, Mane and Tadic, possibly Vic..... 8. Your Clasie's and JWP's will never be good enough for this league. 9. We need to be far more aggressive and stronger. 10. We have a lot of very average players but Koeman needs to up his game too! 11. The conceited attitude of our 'Black Box' department needs to brought back down a peg or two..... Sorry that's eleven but there are more than five things seriously needing attention...... I'm pretty sure when Koeman arrived last season he made a big point when he started that he didn't believe in constant game long pressing and that he didn't believe teams could keep it up all game he was pretty upfront about it. I would guess he has not addressed it because it's not how he wants to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Not sure how much difference that would make, I mean he watches the game doesn't he and we have countless people on video analysis. He must see it all and he just seems to let it slide by him, anchored in his seat talking to his brother. Klopp seems to stand for most of the game and is always after his players, for good acts and bad. Think that is unfair on Koeman. In the games I go to (almost all away from St Marys) Koeman is active enough in his technical area. Sometimes he says things sometimes he doesn't. The players are well coached and he trusts them to implement what they have talked about before the game. He cannot legislate for mistakes or massive brainfarts like the one above from Caulker. Caulker himself will know he did wrong, he doesn't need a bollocking mid-game from 50 yards away to know this either. Koeman trusts his players to work things out and stick to the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 then the club should stop talking about champions league aspirations. we hear it many times a season. I thought that stopped when Cortese left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 then the club should stop talking about champions league aspirations. we hear it many times a season. Do you actually listen to what Led Reed says or just make it up in your own head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Think that is unfair on Koeman. In the games I go to (almost all away from St Marys) Koeman is active enough in his technical area. Sometimes he says things sometimes he doesn't. The players are well coached and he trusts them to implement what they have talked about before the game. He cannot legislate for mistakes or massive brainfarts like the one above from Caulker. Caulker himself will know he did wrong, he doesn't need a bollocking mid-game from 50 yards away to know this either. Koeman trusts his players to work things out and stick to the plan. You're wasting your time WC is on a mission to find fault with everything saints related today....he seems to have some idea that we should have made Claudio Ranieri our manager if we had any ambition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 You're wasting your time WC is on a mission to find fault with everything saints related today....he seems to have some idea that we should have made Claudio Ranieri our manager if we had any ambition Everyone knows that I'm not a Koeman fan in particular or a fan of anything Dutch in General. I've never made a secret of it and now some seam stress is beginning to show. Most seem to like him though but they also thought that Adkins was some sort of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Do you actually listen to what Led Reed says or just make it up in your own head? I don't think that's just restricted to Batman if I'm honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Do you actually listen to what Led Reed says or just make it up in your own head? unless Les never ever said this. Southampton want to be playing in the Champions League within five years, says executive director Les Reed Reed said: "We'd like to think we can reach the Champions League in the next five years. or fonte never said this a few weeks ago Fonte says Southampton, still unbeaten away this season after a 1-0 win at Sunderland, can mount a serious challenge to disrupt the status quo or a week before that Southampton captain Jose Fonte is targeting both playing in the Champions League and lifting some silverware following his recent signing of a three-year contract extension. We've been talking about it, obviously with the manager and the club, we want to have some silverware, and go for the champions league places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 unless Les never ever said this. or fonte never said this a few weeks ago or a week before that It's the wording "Southampton want" "we'd like to think" it's not the same as "we will" or "We definitely will be" every club in the land "would like" to be in the CL doesn't mean they will. It's not the clubs fault fans read that stuff and put their own (incorrect) spin on it. I guess people would be happier if the club just said they were aiming to finish 10th every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 unless Les never ever said this. or fonte never said this a few weeks ago or a week before that Do you actually listen to what Les Reed says or just make it up in your own head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 It's the wording "Southampton want" "we'd like to think" it's not the same as "we will" or "We definitely will be" every club in the land "would like" to be in the CL doesn't mean they will. It's not the clubs fault fans read that stuff and put their own (incorrect) spin on it. I guess people would be happier if the club just said they were aiming to finish 10th every year. I said champions league aspirations are mentioned a few times a season. you suggested I made that up. here is another one from the fans forum (Les reed) We shall see new things happening in January and February in the USA that will help us financially. Our main priority is Ronald and the team. That can never be forgotten. We still want Champions League. talking up champions league for saints to me. he could have said, we want the Europa league again, or consolidate into the top half. or nothing like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Do you actually listen to what Les Reed says or just make it up in your own head? say something about everton. Get it out of the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Point 3 is not correct. Mane and tadic worked hard til the end I thought. Has Tadic ever worked hard? He has qualities, but working hard...do me a favour. Doubt they have to wash his shirt after a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 It's the wording "Southampton want" "we'd like to think" it's not the same as "we will" or "We definitely will be" every club in the land "would like" to be in the CL doesn't mean they will. It's not the clubs fault fans read that stuff and put their own (incorrect) spin on it. I guess people would be happier if the club just said they were aiming to finish 10th every year. Must try harder. Les has spoken about a realistic aspiration of CL football - very few talk in the absolute terms you've tortuously conjured up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Not sure how much difference that would make, I mean he watches the game doesn't he and we have countless people on video analysis. He must see it all and he just seems to let it slide by him, anchored in his seat talking to his brother. Klopp seems to stand for most of the game and is always after his players, for good acts and bad. We have several very average players in our first eleven granted but our lack of fitness is glaring and consequently perhaps also our glaring lack of closing down and engaging the player on the ball properly (not jockeying from 3 yards away!) is also causing us to be trampled. Koeman either doesn't see these vital missing components of our game or just as worrying does nothing about them! I agree with your sentiment that things seem to 'slide by Koeman'. We have formed a very bad habit of playing reasonably ok for 20 minutes only in any given game. We spend the rest of the time standing off teams and watching them play..... This is all linked of course to our very slow, predictable build up play. Our thinking is slow - often down to a lack of fitness again, our energy level is very low indeed which then means we don't get after teams. These issues are incumbent on the Manager to sort out and he is not showing enough desire or awareness frankly to do it.... In a word get started first on fitness and running for 90 minutes incorporating closing down... No days off at all until we are fit enough..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Fair question. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he hadn't been injured. He really cant be any worse than Caulker and Yoshi though can he? he was at Sheffield United last season...****ing terrible. But he had the odd decent, or should I say uneventful game too to be fair. In my eyes he hasn't justified the fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 (edited) I honestly do not believe we have a better squad. despite best efforts Likewise. I posted a comparison on the Liverpool thread between now and two season ago and the first team is weaker and the second 11 pretty much the same. Edited 3 December, 2015 by Chez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 .." within the next 5 years ".... doesn't mean THIS season, and I don't expect many of today's starting line-up to still be here then.....it's down to a matter of time. Five years ago ......we were just getting out of L1 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 It's all about the Villa result. A good solid win and we will be Ok for mid table. Lose, and we will find ourselves in relegation fight as the season develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 I haven't read through the whole thread so apologise if this has already been mentioned but the key thing that we learnt from last night is that RK hasn't realised yet that Pelle can't get the better of Skrtel. We would arguably have been better off with a small fast front three who may have provided more movement. The downside to that is that we would have had to keep the ball away from Caulker as his two default passes last night were back to the keeper or a long hoof to Pelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 I haven't read through the whole thread so apologise if this has already been mentioned but the key thing that we learnt from last night is that RK hasn't realised yet that Pelle can't get the better of Skrtel. We would arguably have been better off with a small fast front three who may have provided more movement. The downside to that is that we would have had to keep the ball away from Caulker as his two default passes last night were back to the keeper or a long hoof to Pelle. I miss the days when Pards and Adkins would stick Lambert on the fullback. Subtle stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 According to RK, Liverpool only had 8 shots on target from which 6 shots went in. That must raise a doubt over the goalkeeping so for once it does look like we badly need Forster back as soon as he is recovered. Not necessarily. If their 8 shots were all from glorious positions with acres of space and they all fell to Sturridge, that would suggest the goalkeeper did very well to save two of the eight... Even though I agree Stekelenburg hasn't pulled off many great saves since he's been here, I haven't been worried he's going to drop a clanger. It would be interesting to see how many brilliant saves keepers are generally required to make in a game - perhaps the bigger question is why/how we are letting the opposition create so many golden chances. It's also worth considering that we were never likely to sign a world class keeper with Forster due back at some stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 I might be being thick here, but what's the context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 I might be being thick here, but what's the context? Caulker a good 5 yards behind the rest of his defence which allows the striker to pretty much make any sort of run he wants to create a clear one-on-one opportunity. As it goes the striker makes the right run which is running from blindside of the defender so he can't see him and across him to ensure he is onside when the ball is played and then running onto the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 I might be being thick here, but what's the context? Look at the shape, or lack of it. It's what you show at training sessions as an example of the worst sort of defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Looks like a back three of VVD, Victor and Caulker in that photo so is this the end of the game when Koeman made the weird subs and the players didn't have a firkin clue what they were supposed to be doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 I'm pretty sure when Koeman arrived last season he made a big point when he started that he didn't believe in constant game long pressing and that he didn't believe teams could keep it up all game he was pretty upfront about it. I would guess he has not addressed it because it's not how he wants to play the game. Yes you are right about that but is Koeman??? I think not.... We have lost focus on fitness and the modern important aspects of this league, closing down and engaging the opposition man with the ball. Standing off is not a viable strategy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Yes you are right about that but is Koeman??? I think not.... We have lost focus on fitness and the modern important aspects of this league, closing down and engaging the opposition man with the ball. Standing off is not a viable strategy ... I'm not a fan of standing off too much but we did very well away from home last season by standing off and using our shape and organisation to stifle the opposition and see out games. The difference I see now is that the quality has diminished which makes standing off more of a risk plus when we break we do so less incisively as we are scared of losing the ball and giving a goal away. We're a bit stuck in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Looks like a back three of VVD, Victor and Caulker in that photo so is this the end of the game when Koeman made the weird subs and the players didn't have a firkin clue what they were supposed to be doing? I think it's where Origi ran across into space on our left from where he received the ball and lashed it into our net. Yes, nobody had a clue and nobody seemed to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintTex Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 It's all about the Villa result. A good solid win and we will be Ok for mid table. Lose, and we will find ourselves in relegation fight as the season develops.no, no we won't, even if we lose Saturday. However, I am in a very pessimistic mood. What I learned last night is that, we should stop dreaming about competing with a Liverpool or a Tottenham and should continue to focus on making sure we don't become a Newcastle or Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Caulker a good 5 yards behind the rest of his defence which allows the striker to pretty much make any sort of run he wants to create a clear one-on-one opportunity. As it goes the striker makes the right run which is running from blindside of the defender so he can't see him and across him to ensure he is onside when the ball is played and then running onto the ball. To think, caulker has been a player on our radar for some time!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 To think, caulker has been a player on our radar for some time!!! That by the way is nothing to do with fitness or sharpness, it's concentration and awareness, two things he isn't going to get better at all of a sudden. The only mitigating circumstance can be the silly formation and players in certain roles at that time but in general he should know to keep up with his defence at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Caulker a good 5 yards behind the rest of his defence which allows the striker to pretty much make any sort of run he wants to create a clear one-on-one opportunity. As it goes the striker makes the right run which is running from blindside of the defender so he can't see him and across him to ensure he is onside when the ball is played and then running onto the ball. Thanks that's what I assumed but wanted to make sure I wasn't going mad. Tbf, seen worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 no, no we won't, even if we lose Saturday. However, I am in a very pessimistic mood. What I learned last night is that, we should stop dreaming about competing with a Liverpool or a Tottenham and should continue to focus on making sure we don't become a Newcastle or Aston Villa. Which if you think about it, is more or less what I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Has Tadic ever worked hard? He has qualities, but working hard...do me a favour. Doubt they have to wash his shirt after a match. Oh do shut up. He did work hard last season and you sound like a typical English fan attitude that has won us nothing since 66. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 December, 2015 Share Posted 3 December, 2015 Thanks that's what I assumed but wanted to make sure I wasn't going mad. Tbf, seen worse! I've seen worse too but most of it was on a Sunday morning and usually in the team I was playing for. I hasten to add that I was the only one playing in the correct position. This is why I know poor defending when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 4 December, 2015 Share Posted 4 December, 2015 (edited) Oh do shut up. He did work hard last season and you sound like a typical English fan attitude that has won us nothing since 66. Pathetic. Read my post again and you will see that I recognise that he has qualities needed in a side to do anything good. I have no problem with having that type of player in the team. But he doesn't work hard. Not a chance. How does fan attitude win anything? Forums are for voicing opinions by the way. Try not to cry when you see one that differs from your own. Edited 4 December, 2015 by Chez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 4 December, 2015 Share Posted 4 December, 2015 To think, caulker has been a player on our radar for some time!!! I got slated on here for not being impressed with Caulker when we got him, " He is perfect cover the masses said, he has premiership experience, dont worry about him being in a relegation side, he's been picked by England you know". Absolute nonsense, he is the same as he always was which is less than average quality which basically sums up most of our signings in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 December, 2015 Share Posted 4 December, 2015 I got slated on here for not being impressed with Caulker when we got him, " He is perfect cover the masses said, he has premiership experience, dont worry about him being in a relegation side, he's been picked by England you know". Absolute nonsense, he is the same as he always was which is less than average quality which basically sums up most of our signings in the summer. #shrewdpickup #bertrandmkII #if-anyone-can-get-the-best-out-of-him-koeman-can To be fair, you did suggest we weren't going to bring another CB in after Caulker, that's why you got **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 4 December, 2015 Share Posted 4 December, 2015 1) Caulker is toilet 2) Yoshida is toilet as right back 3) Ward prowse is gash / overated 4) we are toilet at closing down opposition 5) We have sold quality and have replaced with budget gash in a attempt to replicate previous play styles. Replacing Steak with hamburgers has been our undoing to many average players. 6) Wanyama is playing toilet and obviously wants out get shot sharpish and get somebody in with a bit of passion. 7) Clasie sure the man can pass but is far to lightweight needs a severe intake of whey protein and weights this crimbo... clueless in attack get somebody playing up top with Brylcream infact give somebody like Seager a run out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 Read my post again and you will see that I recognise that he has qualities needed in a side to do anything good. I have no problem with having that type of player in the team. But he doesn't work hard. Not a chance. How does fan attitude win anything? Forums are for voicing opinions by the way. Try not to cry when you see one that differs from your own. Pipe down with lecture. He worked hard the other night and he does work hard. He covers his man very well which is why when he's gone off we have struggled afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 Few points from me: 1) Long ball, long ball long ball. 2) Caulker is a pub team player, truly dreadful 3) We don't close down the opposition at all, just let them pick their passes 4) We are so slow going forward 5) We have no impact off the bench whatsoever Very very disappointing all around last night. I don't actually agree with any of those apart from maybe a bit of number 5, and only then because the players able to provide impact should already be on the pitch until the point where we've got money to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 (edited) Looks like a back three of VVD, Victor and Caulker in that photo so is this the end of the game when Koeman made the weird subs and the players didn't have a firkin clue what they were supposed to be doing? I hate to tell you this, but that was our defensive formation and back 3 for the entire second half. Edited 5 December, 2015 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 Caulker a good 5 yards behind the rest of his defence which allows the striker to pretty much make any sort of run he wants to create a clear one-on-one opportunity. As it goes the striker makes the right run which is running from blindside of the defender so he can't see him and across him to ensure he is onside when the ball is played and then running onto the ball. I've watched the first half back and Caulker was only personally to blame for the first one, but his insistence on running with the breaking man rather than holding or stepping up to play him offside was doing my head in in the second half - but that's another thing you'd put down to there not being any midfield pressure on the ball, when there is, and when the defence is facing upfield and organised, it's easy to see the line and step up. When you're waiting for a pass to time an offside trap and it's not obvious when that pass HAS to be played it's far more difficult to time the step up and less risky to track the runner. Having said all that, f'ck knows what he's doing in the picture above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 I hate to tell you this, but that was our defensive formation and back 3 for the entire second half. Really? I only had the radio to go on but they made a big thing about the change to three at the back only after the double subs were made which certainly wasn't at half time but I wasn't there so I'll defer to those who were on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 Pipe down with lecture. He worked hard the other night and he does work hard. He covers his man very well which is why when he's gone off we have struggled afterwards. 11 Tadics in the side is what we should aim for. With that work rate and quality on the ball CL beckons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 5 December, 2015 Share Posted 5 December, 2015 Really? I only had the radio to go on but they made a big thing about the change to three at the back only after the double subs were made which certainly wasn't at half time but I wasn't there so I'll defer to those who were on the matter. Three at the back immediately at half time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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