Post match thread -Liverpool

[DT]

We need to spend some big money on another no-nonsense rock of a centre half because when Fonte is out we are all at sea. Oh, and another good holding midfielder. We need to first become hard to beat. This is the foundation of Spurs' latest good run (not unhelped by nicking Toby off us)

[Tommog]

I dont think its time for full on bedwetting, we have had a dip of late.. it happens.. and hopefully this was a wake up.

 

But it really is so depressing this constant selling of talent and replacement on gambles. Yes some of them have worked but a lot havent.

 

I get the impression RK has asked for money in Jan and not been given it from some of his recent comments. Mane and Vic are as good as gone in the summer. Just thankful we got Bertrand to sign an extension.

 

I know we need to be built on sound financial footing, i get that and approve of it. But seriously, whats the point when we are constantly fighting with one hand behind our back. We are not a "big club" but something is wrong when you look at how many of our players want out compared to other clubs and their ability to hold on to them. Yes 25 mill for a player is great. But so is having a 25 mill player in your team!

 

If they are going to go for that sort of money personally i feel that should be spent on 1-2 proven players. Not cheap punts and loans (Romeu, Cedric, Caulker, Gardos etc) But then again its not like any of our big spends have lived up to the hype.. sigh.. *wets bed*

[Roger]

I dont think its time for full on bedwetting, we have had a dip of late.. it happens.. and hopefully this was a wake up.

 

But it really is so depressing this constant selling of talent and replacement on gambles. Yes some of them have worked but a lot havent.

 

I get the impression RK has asked for money in Jan and not been given it from some of his recent comments. Mane and Vic are as good as gone in the summer. Just thankful we got Bertrand to sign an extension.

 

I know we need to be built on sound financial footing, i get that and approve of it. But seriously, whats the point when we are constantly fighting with one hand behind our back. We are not a "big club" but something is wrong when you look at how many of our players want out compared to other clubs and their ability to hold on to them. Yes 25 mill for a player is great. But so is having a 25 mill player in your team!

 

If they are going to go for that sort of money personally i feel that should be spent on 1-2 proven players. Not cheap punts and loans (Romeu, Cedric, Caulker, Gardos etc) But then again its not like any of our big spends have lived up to the hype.. sigh.. *wets bed*

 

Spot on. Don't understand why the board harp on about champions league with the current philosophy. No one coming through at all either.

[Window Cleaner]

I dont think its time for full on bedwetting, we have had a dip of late.. it happens.. and hopefully this was a wake up.

 

But it really is so depressing this constant selling of talent and replacement on gambles. Yes some of them have worked but a lot havent.

 

I get the impression RK has asked for money in Jan and not been given it from some of his recent comments. Mane and Vic are as good as gone in the summer. Just thankful we got Bertrand to sign an extension.

 

I know we need to be built on sound financial footing, i get that and approve of it. But seriously, whats the point when we are constantly fighting with one hand behind our back. We are not a "big club" but something is wrong when you look at how many of our players want out compared to other clubs and their ability to hold on to them. Yes 25 mill for a player is great. But so is having a 25 mill player in your team!

 

If they are going to go for that sort of money personally i feel that should be spent on 1-2 proven players. Not cheap punts and loans (Romeu, Cedric, Caulker, Gardos etc) But then again its not like any of our big spends have lived up to the hype.. sigh.. *wets bed*

 

What big spends....we don't do big spends we do mid range I'll take a punt on him spends. For 12/13 million you don't get proven quality, you get maybe men who might perform if everything around them is working well. Mané is ok, Long a total failure.

As for the 5/6 million munters, well you might as well play academy players really. From last night's game I saw nothing done by either Clasie or Romeu that Reed couldn't have done.

[eddie]

If I can be a little bold...

 

I was a little lost for words last night, considering the drubbing handed to us. However, the talk of 'alarm bells' is a little premature.

 

for me stoke is the only disappointment over the past fortnight.

 

I expected to go to man city and lose missing our best striker and playing a CB at RB and while I thought we might clinch it last night (and definitely did not expect such a big scoreline not in our favour), in reality we've all become used to getting knocked out teh cup especially as we were missing our captain/CB.

 

villa's now an important game. I think if we win that and manage a draw at palace all will be well. we'll have lost two games we probably weren't tipped to win - and SMS isn't the fortress it was once

 

I think the situation isn't so bad. Yes morale may be a bit knocked, and saints players seem a bit bemused at the moment , letting the match pass us by (city and later on against pool they seemed totally awestruck and making silly mistakes, not noticing people getting in behind them etc.), and we've had some injuries, but we've still got a good squad, well run club and an experienced manager who is fairly down to earth.

 

had we had a better head and our settled first 11 for europe and the start of the season, we might be a lot higher in the table

 

we march on

[kitch]

Very frustrating to see us stand off them. Reminded me of my terrible defending in Fifa 16.

 

Same 'ere!

[Window Cleaner]

Seriously? I thought making the league cup final was being built up as a major objective for the club and last night's debacle seems now i to be being written off as a minor mishap. We went 1 up after 45 seconds and had them on the ropes, we didn't have the quality to press home our advantage and their midfield inexorably showed their greater class.

Still never mind there's always the FA Cup, and if not next year's League Cup etc etc ad infinitum. .

[doddisalegend]

Seriously? I thought making the league cup final was being built up as a major objective for the club and last night's debacle seems now i to be being written off as a minor mishap. We went 1 up after 45 seconds and had them on the ropes, we didn't have the quality to press home our advantage and their midfield inexorably showed their greater class.

Still never mind there's always the FA Cup, and if not next year's League Cup etc etc ad infinitum. .

 

 

We put out the strongest side available ( well I'd have had Yoshida in for Caulker) last night and rested players against city just for this game So we took the cup as seriously as we could. I have no complaints about going out when we played our best team but lost.

[Window Cleaner]

We put out the strongest side available ( well I'd have had Yoshida in for Caulker) last night and rested players against city just for this game So we took the cup as seriously as we could. I have no complaints about going out when we played our best team but lost.

 

Well then perhaps you should. Liverpool had a rookie left back on the field last night,a 3rd choice midfielder and a 2nd choice keeper. Saint's fans in general are nowhere near demanding enough. The Don would probably have sacked Koeman this morning,well if he'd ever appointed him in the first place that is.

As you said we had our best available side out last night and we were totally humiliated by a substandard Liverpool side.

[eddie]

Seriously? I thought making the league cup final was being built up as a major objective for the club and last night's debacle seems now i to be being written off as a minor mishap. We went 1 up after 45 seconds and had them on the ropes, we didn't have the quality to press home our advantage and their midfield inexorably showed their greater class.

Still never mind there's always the FA Cup, and if not next year's League Cup etc etc ad infinitum. .

 

it's not a minor mishap, but he's right, we played our strongest team and took it seriously which is good. but even our strongest 11 just is not as good as other teams. that's the life of a saints fan. there's absolutely next year, or the league, or the fa cup. or any other bit of hope to give us something to sing about

[Window Cleaner]

it's not a minor mishap, but he's right, we played our strongest team and took it seriously which is good. but even our strongest 11 just is not as good as other teams. that's the life of a saints fan. there's absolutely next year, or the league, or the fa cup. or any other bit of hope to give us something to sing about

 

Why isn't it good enough, I mean we've spent over 100 million £ on players since the Don left. 100 million raised from the sale of players who were good enough to beat the side that Liverpool put out last night. I'm amazed at the ease with which most posters accept the current shambles despite the shedloads of cash spent on players. Knocked out of europe by danish minnows, thrashed by Liverpool at home and 10th in the PL. Not really good enough is it.

[saint97]

Worst I've felt after a game since the 2-2 draw at home to Portsmouth. Caulker over Yoshida was an absolute joke. I'm a fan of Koeman but he's made a lot of mistakes so far this season and god knows what he says at half time to the players.

[Window Cleaner]

Worst I've felt after a game since the 2-2 draw at home to Portsmouth. Caulker over Yoshida was an absolute joke. I'm a fan of Koeman but he's made a lot of mistakes so far this season and god knows what he says at half time to the players.

 

Never mind what he said at half time, he shouldn't have said what he did about not being a project manager and needing to spend more money. That says to players "you're not really good enough but the club won't spend more so I'm stuck with you"

Didn't really want him in the first place and still think the sooner we're shot of him the better it will be.

[Nexstar]

**** me karma can really bite you on the backside

 

Seems Alex Davison can change teams just as quickly as his mate Adam.

[eddie]

Why isn't it good enough, I mean we've spent over 100 million £ on players since the Don left. 100 million raised from the sale of players who were good enough to beat the side that Liverpool put out last night. I'm amazed at the ease with which most posters accept the current shambles despite the shedloads of cash spent on players. Knocked out of europe by danish minnows, thrashed by Liverpool at home and 10th in the PL. Not really good enough is it.

 

I said playing a strong team was a good thing. It is. the performance was a level above us, and we got thrashed by two strong and fast strikers who had a good game. origi wanted to prove himself, and sturridge is coming back from injury. and we got bossed in midfield with lucas allen can. they were the better team, and we played a poor cb and took wanyama out of midfield. it was a good team to start from koeman (lets be fair noone knew whether caulker would have a good game), but poorly managed at halftime. good from the attackers but no point having a troublesome front 3 if 4-5 players behind them aren't performing well and have low morale.

 

you know as well as I do that money doesn't guarantee results. it's the same liverpool side who were dire at the start of the season. 0 pounds spent since, but the new manager has got them performing well. so money isn't anything to do with it. we've bought very good players (mane, tadic, pelle, van dijk, even cedric, also romeu and clasie are good even if they need a bit more time) with that money, probably on average better than just the money we spent. if there's anything said of southampton, it's that they maximise player value and sell for more than they're worth. so that's alright.

 

but come on. we lost. we lost badly against the team in the league....maybe along with leicester and spurs....who are totally flying with confidence and attacking flair. it was a drubbing, and we shouldn't have conceded so many, but hey.

 

agreed mitjiland was a disaster.

 

but for these defeats what are you going to do? hold them to account weeks later for it and keep it in your memory as 'the moment we lost it' or something? I'm not criticising your bringing some pinch or reality to the situation, I'm just saying what does it really change. I honestly that we've got a great team capable of having anyone on our day. we didn't necessarily play it or play like that level last night, and maybe with 1-2 new signings we could cement that situation (we say it every year for years this kind of thing - that just with a bit more splashed out we could really push on), but I wouldn't clear the squad or manager out just on that performance.

 

it was poor. but almost the same team is the team we're praising at end of last season, or both legs against vitesse, or away at chelsea, or any other stand out victory we've had over last few months.

Edited 3 December, 2015 by eddie

[sadoldgit]

Worst I've felt after a game since the 2-2 draw at home to Portsmouth. Caulker over Yoshida was an absolute joke. I'm a fan of Koeman but he's made a lot of mistakes so far this season and god knows what he says at half time to the players.

 

After the mistakes that Yoshida has made this season and the fact that Ron thought that Caulker did ok when he came on on Saturday I don't think it was unreasonable to play Caulker from the start. I think most of us would have looked at the team and been happy with it from the start and for the first 20 minutes. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[The9]

Well, here's my summary:

 

We were completely on top for 25 minutes and didn't take enough advantage - especially Wanyama's header straight at Bogdan at 1-0. They then scored, twice, against the run of play.

 

Caulker was exposed by a lack of pressure on the ball in midfield, but made some poor positional decisions and unsurprisingly didn't have the kind of understanding with Van Dijk that we usually see because they've rarely, if ever, played a competitive match together.

 

We probably should have played with 2 DMs in midfield to protect the back 4 better - aside from a couple of Clasie through balls the central midfield job seemed to be mostly defensive anyway - though Romeu and Wanyama were both ineffective on Saturday away to Man City. Even so, it didn't look to be a problem until they started finding space to pass behind Caulker.

 

Liverpool's finishing was the main difference between the two sides. They scored all but one of the decent chances they had, and one came out of nowhere.

 

The third goal (from 5 Liverpool efforts in the first half, one of which hit the scoreboard) tipped the game completely - leading to Koeman making an understandable but still weird decision to go 3-5-2. This showed little confidence that our usual supposedly defensive set up with one DM and Clasie was going to lead to us getting 2 goals back.

 

Being charitable, you could say Koeman wanted to offer Liverpool a threat they weren't expecting. But this mainly had the effect of removing the overlapping options as the ball never got to the wing-backs, and forced Wanyama to play twice as many passes as usual in much riskier situations, without anyone to pass to in the middle of the park (even though theoretically there should have been at least 2 people there) and everything ended up with Stekelenburg which gave the ball back to Liverpool too often. Later on this went to something resembling a 3-4-3 which left Mane totally isolated out on the right wing. Meanwhile Liverpool just hoofed it and outpaced Caulker and Wanyama to score every time they broke.

 

On the upside, the players on the pitch seemed to be giving everything even when well behind and I thought Steven Davis was very good at moving the ball on quickly and effectively, as well as working hard to close down and press. In fact I thought he did more pressing than everyone on the pitch except Mane and Lallana. We chased the game from 3-1 and got picked off - more about formations than performance.

Edited 3 December, 2015 by The9

[The9]

We need to spend some big money on another no-nonsense rock of a centre half because when Fonte is out we are all at sea. Oh, and another good holding midfielder. We need to first become hard to beat. This is the foundation of Spurs' latest good run (not unhelped by nicking Toby off us)

 

It might have been an idea to use another of the ones we already have.

[bubblyone]

You'll still be a c*nt with no morals no matter what your career brings.

If karma exists you'll be in a wheelchair before long.

 

Who is THEVMAN?

[sandwichsaint]

Well, here's my summary:

 

We were completely on top for 25 minutes and didn't take enough advantage - especially Wanyama's header straight at Bogdan at 1-0. They then scored, twice, against the run of play.

 

Caulker was exposed by a lack of pressure on the ball in midfield, but made some poor positional decisions and unsurprisingly didn't have the kind of understanding with Van Dijk that we usually see because they've rarely, if ever, played a competitive match together.

 

We probably should have played with 2 DMs in midfield to protect the back 4 better - aside from a couple of Clasie through balls the central midfield job seemed to be mostly defensive anyway - though Romeu and Wanyama were both ineffective on Saturday away to Man City. Even so, it didn't look to be a problem until they started finding space to pass behind Caulker.

 

Liverpool's finishing was the main difference between the two sides. They scored all but one of the decent chances they had, and one came out of nowhere.

 

The third goal (from 5 Liverpool efforts in the first half, one of which hit the scoreboard) tipped the game completely - leading to Koeman making an understandable but still weird decision to go 3-5-2. This showed little confidence that our usual supposedly defensive set up with one DM and Clasie was going to lead to us getting 2 goals back.

 

Being charitable, you could say Koeman wanted to offer Liverpool a threat they weren't expecting. But this mainly had the effect of removing the overlapping options as the ball never got to the wing-backs, and forced Wanyama to play twice as many passes as usual in much riskier situations, without anyone to pass to in the middle of the park (even though theoretically there should have been at least 2 people there) and everything ended up with Stekelenburg which gave the ball back to Liverpool too often. Later on this went to something resembling a 3-4-3 which left Mane totally isolated out on the right wing. Meanwhile Liverpool just hoofed it and outpaced Caulker and Wanyama to score every time they broke.

 

On the upside, the players on the pitch seemed to be giving everything even when well behind and I thought Steven Davis was very good at moving the ball on quickly and effectively, as well as working hard to close down and press. In fact I thought he did more pressing than everyone on the pitch except Mane and Lallana. We chased the game from 3-1 and got picked off - more about formations than performance.

 

Only up to a point, surely we would have to create 7 goal scoring opportunities to draw this conclusion. Apart from Wanyama's header straight at him I can't remember him having to make a save?

[The9]

Only up to a point, surely we would have to create 7 goal scoring opportunities to draw this conclusion. Apart from Wanyama's header straight at him I can't remember him having to make a save?

 

Stats show chances were pretty even, 12 to 14, but we had 3 on target compared to their 7. Obviously these include all kinds of "not really efforts on goal" and possibly blocks, but last night was a pretty good illustration of how the quality of chances impacts on your conversion percentage. Almost all their efforts were from players in space and with time to choose their finish, and Stekelenburg had little chance with any of them.

[Window Cleaner]

Only up to a point, surely we would have to create 7 goal scoring opportunities to draw this conclusion. Apart from Wanyama's header straight at him I can't remember him having to make a save?

 

He fielded a couple of shots I think, bog standard picks up from 15 yards though. Picked off a couple of bad crosses from JWP, that's about it. Pity cos he looked as if he might be a bit shaky if tested.

[The9]

Who is THEVMAN?

 

Fairly sure that was answered earlier in the thread.

 

For those who left before the end, Lallana tried applauding those left in the Northam (Saints fans were still applauding the players and singing OWTS at this point), was met with a chorus of boos and "w@nker" chants, and shrugged like the bell-end he clearly is and went over to the Liverpool fans instead.

[Saint Charlie]

We put out the strongest side available ( well I'd have had Yoshida in for Caulker) last night and rested players against city just for this game So we took the cup as seriously as we could. I have no complaints about going out when we played our best team but lost.

You have no complaints about last night?

[Sour Mash]

Stats show chances were pretty even, 12 to 14, but we had 3 on target compared to their 7. Obviously these include all kinds of "not really efforts on goal" and possibly blocks, but last night was a pretty good illustration of how the quality of chances impacts on your conversion percentage. Almost all their efforts were from players in space and with time to choose their finish, and Stekelenburg had little chance with any of them.

So finishing wasn't the main difference between the sides then.

[Window Cleaner]

You have no complaints about last night?

 

Apparently not because we put out our strongest team and they tried their best. Sounds like my old Akela Nelly Knowles

on the subject of Cub Scout Football.

The fact that we've spent 100 million £ on players who aren't good enough to beat a depleted Liverpool side doesn't come into the question apparently and yet most seemed to think we would win when the line ups were announced.

Some fans seem to settle for very little, you could even say the minimum.

Edited 3 December, 2015 by Window Cleaner

[Griffo]

 

For those who left before the end, Lallana tried applauding those left in the Northam (Saints fans were still applauding the players and singing OWTS at this point), was met with a chorus of boos and "w@nker" chants, and shrugged like the bell-end he clearly is and went over to the Liverpool fans instead.

 

Good news.

[beatlesaint]

The most annoying thing on a night of annoying things was how in the first ten minutes Tadic absolutely took their right back, Randall ?, to the cleaners and he got booked for a foul. After his booking not once did we run at him with the same purpose and force him into another foul or two which would have seen him off ! There was a weakness and we didnt bother to exploit it !

[Window Cleaner]

The most annoying thing on a night of annoying things was how in the first ten minutes Tadic absolutely took their right back, Randall ?, to the cleaners and he got booked for a foul. After his booking not once did we run at him with the same purpose and force him into another foul or two which would have seen him off ! There was a weakness and we didnt bother to exploit it !

 

Absolutely, they could have been down to 10 men after 20 minutes if we'd pushed it. The laddy looked totally useless for a while and then bit by bit he dug in and actually threatened us with his runs after a while. Just do not understand the way we capitulated last night and yet most seem to find it acceptable.

[The9]

So finishing wasn't the main difference between the sides then.

 

They had only 2 more efforts on goal. The efforts they had were from better positions, but you still have to finish the chance, and they were clinical. Ifs and buts and all that, but Wanyama missing an easy header at 1-0 made a massive difference to how we set up in the second half, even if everything else stays the same and Liverpool get 3 before half time we almost certainly don't go to that game-chasing 3-5-2 when only one goal behind at half time.

 

Happy to agree that Caulker standing off Sturridge when he miscontrolled it was just as important for the result in that context.

[Saint Charlie]

Apparently not because we put out our strongest team and they tried their best. Sounds like my old Akela Nelly Knowles

on the subject of Cub Scout Football.

The fact that we've spent 100 million £ on players who aren't good enough to beat a depleted Liverpool side doesn't come into the question apparently and yet most seemed to think we would win when the line ups were announced.

Some fans seem to settle for very little, you could even say the minimum.

There is definitely a culture on here that expressing any sort of disappointment is a bad thing or is disloyal to the Club.

 

Football is about ups and downs. You can't just pretend the downs are irrelevant.

Edited 3 December, 2015 by Saint Charlie

[Window Cleaner]

There is definitely a culture on here that expressing any sort of disappointment is a bad thing or is disloyal to the Club.

 

Football is about ups and downs. You just pretend the downs are irrelevant.

 

Well at least Koeman seems to know we need to spend more money on better players.

[The9]

It's 3am and I am still seething with anger. I don't usually get this annoyed but what we saw last night was an absolute disgrace. The whole club from Katrina down need to get a grip, decide if they seriously want Champions League and then behave accordingly. If they truly want that, it begins in competitions like this. I cannot accept that this was a blip and I will not accept any player who thinks they deserve to wear the shirt based on a performance like that.

 

There is absolutely no excuse for a player to just stop playing like we saw last night - especially in the Premier League. I would rather see a player walk off the pitch than stay on and do nothing.

 

Total bullsh!t performance. Liverpool didn't play that well, we just made them look good by failing to play at all. Totally unacceptable.

 

Strange, as one of the things I was impressed by was the way we kept going all the way through even though little we tried came off.

[The9]

No. Any team would look good if given the amount of time and space they were allowed last night.

 

The point is we only allowed them space and time in the second half because for some reason Koeman decided our best chance to get 2 goals back was changing the formation entirely so no-one knew what they were meant to be doing.

 

In the first half their goals came from picking off our worst defender having moved the ball into space more quickly than we could have closed it down, nothing to do with "allowing" it, we were playing well but they targeted our weakness and managed to get good scoring chances.

 

The second half was different, Wanyama to CB was terrible in execution and we played most of the half without any defensive midfield, with predictable results. It was a tactical gamble to try and load the midfield to stop the quick pass forward from their midfield from happening, and it both didn't work and weakened us as well - they had all the space they needed in the whole where Wanyama wasn't and once they'd got the ball past our front however many it was by that time, there was all the space in the world in front of the back 3 to attack us, which led directly to the 4th goal (and the ones after it).

[VectisSaint]

U21 7-2

 

Saints 1-6

 

Oops!!!

U18 7-2 as well...

[doddisalegend]

You have no complaints about last night?

 

Last night was ****, I am getting absolute dogs abuse from the plastic Liverpool fans at work today......but one of the big things a lot of us have complained about in the past is putting out weakened sides in the cups and resting players. Apart from Fonte we put out what is pretty much acknowledged as our best side... and we got stuffed by a team that finishes higher up than us in the league every season. I can live with that. We made the effort for the cup and came up short which far less annoying than the game against Sunderland under poch two seasons ago or even last years game against Sheffield Utd. I don't expect us to win a cup but I do want to see us try to win a cup.....makes sense to me anyway.

[Turkish]

**** me karma can really bite you on the backside

 

Is your missus gash still loose from the pounding it got by the Crewe player?

[doddisalegend]

There is definitely a culture on here that expressing any sort of disappointment is a bad thing or is disloyal to the Club.

 

Football is about ups and downs. You can't just pretend the downs are irrelevant.

 

I think is has more to do with the ridiculous swings in opinion on here. If we go on a little run people start going all overboard on the quality of our players, the CL and our amazing football. As soon as we lose a few our squad are unfit journeymen not fit for the championship and every player we've bought is ****e. Some people just don't have any perspective.

[The9]

I think is has more to do with the ridiculous swings in opinion on here. If we go on a little run people start going all overboard on the quality of our players, the CL and our amazing football. As soon as we lose a few our squad are unfit journeymen not fit for the championship and every player we've bought is ****e. Some people just don't have any perspective.

 

This is reasonable (not much of it here today).

[Window Cleaner]

U18 7-2 as well...

 

At least there's consistency throughout the club then, the epitomy of the "Southampton Way" All the teams playing the same system and losing by similar margins.

[sadoldgit]

I think is has more to do with the ridiculous swings in opinion on here. If we go on a little run people start going all overboard on the quality of our players, the CL and our amazing football. As soon as we lose a few our squad are unfit journeymen not fit for the championship and every player we've bought is ****e. Some people just don't have any perspective.

 

I agree with this. I was gutted last night and there is no point in pretending that there were any positives to take from that performance. but it hasn't been a bad season so far and it wasn't that long ago that we turned over Chelsea. Just as we are not world beaters when we have a good run, neither are we the worst team in the world when we lose a few matches. Trouble is it swings from one extreme to the other here.

[trousers]

Hi Alex Davison

 

[Window Cleaner]

Ah yes another thing I wanted to mention about last night. Players need to face the ball at all times when they're trying to close down. Clasie (him again) I think it was rushed forward and turned his back when Moreno was shooting in what I think led up to their 3rd goal. Shot was a daisy cutter so turning his back made no difference at all. If he faces the ball and sticks out a boot or something the ball might have gone wide or been blocked before it got anywhere near being dangerous. Don't they coach that in the UK? Never turn your back on an opponent.

Edited 3 December, 2015 by Window Cleaner

[Chez]

My evening started with the discovery that the chosen pre match pint venue was closed and finished with me having to circle for 25 minutes in attempt to find a parking pace remotely near my home. Brilliant! What went on in between was, as you know, the stuff of nightmares.

 

It wasn't just pub closure that got me off to a good start. Before the game there was a massive queue outside the Kingsland, so I only made it to my seat with 4 minutes played and therefore missed our goal. I suppose it could have been worse - Liverpool could have scored it, but of course they made up for that.

 

I'm getting old now and defeats, even miserable ones, are starting to become water off a ducks back. Cup exits however, do still seem to smart a little. The limp displays at Sheffield United and Sunderland still leave a bad taste in my mouth. You can't criticise RK for not going for it this time. He put out a full strength side (which is a worry in itself) and threw caution to the wind having gone 1-3 behind. But I do certainly question the personnel in that reshaped line up in the second half.

 

In my eyes we were getting overrun in the middle, with Classie offering nothing in the way of pressure on the ball or a physical presence to win second ball. Yet it was Wanyama that was dropped back, leaving us even more exposed. I thought JWP did pretty well when he replaced Classie, but someone as immobile as him left to command the whole midfield area seemed madness.

 

Bertrand pushed into a central midfield role did inject a little more pace in that area, but at times he seemed to still be playing at left back, leaving first Classie and then JWP to battle against two or three opponents. If you want to get back into games you need to start dominating possession, not just add bodies in forward positions.

 

The new formation meant Davis and Tadic touched the ball about twice and any thoughts of us getting the ball down and play went out the window as our centre backs had no central midfielders to offer an easy pass to. Time after time the ball was smacked long by the keeper and defender. What ever happened to us passing it out from the back no matter what? Klop is known for a pressing game, and they did that to a certain extent, but not so much that we couldn't try to pass it out. Pelle won a single header all night against Skrtel, as he does every season. Total waste of time us attempting it.

 

I have to say when Long came on I didn't really know what the formation was. Nor did the players. But Liverpool certainly knew where the space was. Everywhere!

 

Like a masochist I stayed to the end. I like to see which players are willing to battle to the end even when the game has gone. JWP and Mane certainly didn't give up, but the rest are perhaps older and wiser and avoided tackles and potential injury without making it too obvious. Long was especially good at that. Having absolutely slated Lee Cattermole for giving up when we turned them over last season I guess I shouldn't go easy on our own players.

 

We usually bounce back from cup defeats, so hopefully we will wallop Villa, but will yet another season go by without a cup final. I suspect so.

[mrfahaji]

Well, here's my summary:

 

We were completely on top for 25 minutes and didn't take enough advantage - especially Wanyama's header straight at Bogdan at 1-0. They then scored, twice, against the run of play.

 

Caulker was exposed by a lack of pressure on the ball in midfield, but made some poor positional decisions and unsurprisingly didn't have the kind of understanding with Van Dijk that we usually see because they've rarely, if ever, played a competitive match together.

 

We probably should have played with 2 DMs in midfield to protect the back 4 better - aside from a couple of Clasie through balls the central midfield job seemed to be mostly defensive anyway - though Romeu and Wanyama were both ineffective on Saturday away to Man City. Even so, it didn't look to be a problem until they started finding space to pass behind Caulker.

 

Liverpool's finishing was the main difference between the two sides. They scored all but one of the decent chances they had, and one came out of nowhere.

 

The third goal (from 5 Liverpool efforts in the first half, one of which hit the scoreboard) tipped the game completely - leading to Koeman making an understandable but still weird decision to go 3-5-2. This showed little confidence that our usual supposedly defensive set up with one DM and Clasie was going to lead to us getting 2 goals back.

 

Being charitable, you could say Koeman wanted to offer Liverpool a threat they weren't expecting. But this mainly had the effect of removing the overlapping options as the ball never got to the wing-backs, and forced Wanyama to play twice as many passes as usual in much riskier situations, without anyone to pass to in the middle of the park (even though theoretically there should have been at least 2 people there) and everything ended up with Stekelenburg which gave the ball back to Liverpool too often. Later on this went to something resembling a 3-4-3 which left Mane totally isolated out on the right wing. Meanwhile Liverpool just hoofed it and outpaced Caulker and Wanyama to score every time they broke.

 

On the upside, the players on the pitch seemed to be giving everything even when well behind and I thought Steven Davis was very good at moving the ball on quickly and effectively, as well as working hard to close down and press. In fact I thought he did more pressing than everyone on the pitch except Mane and Lallana. We chased the game from 3-1 and got picked off - more about formations than performance.

 

Thanks for the summary. I'm out of the country so tried to get a recap from the BBC website. However, aside from the opening paragraph you'd barely know who Liverpool were playing! Unsurprising from McNulty I suppose. Any record of what Koeman said afterwards?

[Saint Garrett]

This ****....

 

https://twitter.com/alexdav1988

[USA SaintsFan]

This ****....

 

https://twitter.com/alexdav1988

 

What did he say? It's blocked

[The9]

I do certainly question the personnel in that reshaped line up in the second half.

 

In my eyes we were getting overrun in the middle, with Classie offering nothing in the way of pressure on the ball or a physical presence to win second ball. Yet it was Wanyama that was dropped back, leaving us even more exposed. I thought JWP did pretty well when he replaced Classie, but someone as immobile as him left to command the whole midfield area seemed madness.

 

Bertrand pushed into a central midfield role did inject a little more pace in that area, but at times he seemed to still be playing at left back, leaving first Classie and then JWP to battle against two or three opponents. If you want to get back into games you need to start dominating possession, not just add bodies in forward positions.

 

The new formation meant Davis and Tadic touched the ball about twice and any thoughts of us getting the ball down and play went out the window as our centre backs had no central midfielders to offer an easy pass to. Time after time the ball was smacked long by the keeper and defender. What ever happened to us passing it out from the back no matter what? Klop is known for a pressing game, and they did that to a certain extent, but not so much that we couldn't try to pass it out. Pelle won a single header all night against Skrtel, as he does every season. Total waste of time us attempting it.

 

I have to say when Long came on I didn't really know what the formation was. Nor did the players. But Liverpool certainly knew where the space was. Everywhere!

 

Like a masochist I stayed to the end. I like to see which players are willing to battle to the end even when the game has gone. JWP and Mane certainly didn't give up, but the rest are perhaps older and wiser and avoided tackles and potential injury without making it too obvious. Long was especially good at that. Having absolutely slated Lee Cattermole for giving up when we turned them over last season I guess I shouldn't go easy on our own players.

 

We usually bounce back from cup defeats, so hopefully we will wallop Villa, but will yet another season go by without a cup final. I suspect so.

 

All fair points IMO, apart from "giving up", I didn't see any of that and saw pretty much all of them haring about the place in the last 10 minutes - possibly more so than mid-half, which might have been part of the problem. For once I was stone cold sober at a match and won't be second-guessing anything until I see the footage again.

[hasper57saint]

After the final whistle last night I felt like those Villa Fans after we tanked them by the same score in the penultimate match of last season. The difference however, is that we didn't lose three points last night all we lost was some credibility .Our strongest teams are nowhere near the 'big clubs' strongest teams and RK knows that.We have the opportunity on Saturday to put last night behind us and move on.Lets hope that Villa come to play football and not waste time,take up to 15 yards advantage on throw ins and stop the wrestling that has become so prevalent of late.

PS We may even get a decent Ref then again,it's Anthony Taylor and his record is not very good.

PPS. I think he booked a Chelsea player for diving against us!

[ally_uk]

This is football it happens we move on to many wet tarts on here....... Liverpool on a role at the moment with new manager we will learn from this and press on