Miltonaggro Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Oh and is Sam Byram still any good? Would be a good call. Much bigger physically than Cedric, and currently refusing to sign a new contract at Leeds - a deal could be done that would give us real options at right back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Really? Cedric was awful last week, notwithstanding the shaky protection in from of him. I suspected he would get dropped. The reality is neither Cedric nor Yoshida is good enough for RB at the moment. No worse than Bertrand? That's not quite as bad as saying Clyne's not being missed -a common refrain on here- but it's still nonsense. .........was that before or after he got a bang in the face and bled all over the pitch? . I thought he DAJFU.. and better than some others...despite all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Other pieces of interest: 1. Koeman barely ever dropped Clyne 2. Koeman has never left out Bertrand when fit 3. If only Targett had a right foot then he would get some more games. Some fullbacks seem able to play either side, its pretty poor if basically you are so one footed that its not even considered as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 .........was that before or after he got a bang in the face and bled all over the pitch? . I thought he DAJFU.. and better than some others...despite all else. Before, virtually from kickoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Really? Cedric was awful last week, notwithstanding the shaky protection in from of him. I suspected he would get dropped. The reality is neither Cedric nor Yoshida is good enough for RB at the moment. No worse than Bertrand? That's not quite as bad as saying Clyne's not being missed -a common refrain on here- but it's still nonsense. Cedric was in the top 10 of Pl tacklers this season, a couple of weeks ago, with this highest percentage of successful tackles completed. He gets forward well and provides decent attacking width he clearly is good enough for the PL. People banging on about Clyne seem to quickly have forgotten how bloody average he was second half of last season. Meanwhile Bertrand has been defensively suspect at times this season to. Bournemouth and stoke both spring to mind but he isn't getting to much stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Cedric was at fault for the goal against Stoke - he backed off instead of closing Pieters down who then put a great cross in for Bojan to score. And he struggled all game with the class of Bojan and the physicality of Arnautovic and Pieters. Cedric is a good attacking full back but not a great defensive one. But he has got better and hopefully will continue to do so. However I think he's basically to small to play fullback in English football - players need to be 6ft or so to play at the back and if they're not they get targeted as a week link with long balls in the air - which has happened to Cedric a number of times so far this season. I get the feeling Carl Jenkinson was our first choice for the right back role in the summer and Cedric was bought as a cheap back up. Cuco Martina was bought in a panic to cover across the back when we failed to sign anyone else and seems to have been a waste of money. Yoshida is a good centreback when he plays regularly - but he can't play left back or right back. We were also interested in Byram last season so let's hope we sign him in January as we really need to strengthen this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 (edited) Cedric was in the top 10 of Pl tacklers this season, a couple of weeks ago, with this highest percentage of successful tackles completed. He gets forward well and provides decent attacking width he clearly is good enough for the PL. People banging on about Clyne seem to quickly have forgotten how bloody average he was second half of last season. Meanwhile Bertrand has been defensively suspect at times this season to. Bournemouth and stoke both spring to mind but he isn't getting to much stick. So? Tackling stats mean very little in isolation. One might argue that the best defenders don't need to tackle as much - they anticipate and deal with the danger earlier on and in more controlled ways without the risks of making tackles. His attacking play is OK not great - don't really see him overlapping and getting past and behind players the way Clyne did (and Bertrand does). Clyne's high standards certainly dropped, though that was more offensively than defensively and I'll take a RB who can defend over one than can attack any day. And Clyne wins that everyday. Agree Bertrand's not been great in recent games - along with VVD, has been getting caught out of position, though that may be due to team instructions. His play and distribution out of his defense has also been loose. But all things considered, he's been better than Cedric who's improved but currently still well short of what we need - despite the happy-clapping on here. Edited 29 November, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Cedric was at fault for the goal against Stoke - he backed off instead of closing Pieters down who then put a great cross in for Bojan to score. And he struggled all game with the class of Bojan and the physicality of Arnautovic and Pieters. Cedric is a good attacking full back but not a great defensive one. But he has got better and hopefully will continue to do so. However I think he's basically to small to play fullback in English football - players need to be 6ft or so to play at the back and if they're not they get targeted as a week link with long balls in the air - which has happened to Cedric a number of times so far this season. I get the feeling Carl Jenkinson was our first choice for the right back role in the summer and Cedric was bought as a cheap back up. Cuco Martina was bought in a panic to cover across the back when we failed to sign anyone else and seems to have been a waste of money. Yoshida is a good centreback when he plays regularly - but he can't play left back or right back. We were also interested in Byram last season so let's hope we sign him in January as we really need to strengthen this position. To add credence to this theory (as was discussed on the Van Dijk thread months back), Reed implied, and it's generally accepted, that the plan was always to buy a young RB in the summer, regardless of whether Clyne left or not. As it transpired, Clyne left, and the potential back-up RB became first choice. And to quote a post of my own, 'Martina was then absolutely signed as a stop-gap, because we weren't prepared (/other targets weren't feasible at the time) to rush through the process of adding another 'expensive' RB (Soares having been on the radar for a while)...hence the stop-gap Martina'. It's well documented that our recruitment process is considered/protracted, and as opposed to scattergun. You could argue that is was obvious that Clyne was off, and therefore two RBs were necessary from day 1, but there were clearly signs that Clyne may stay at one stage (if only to see out his contract). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 I think Cedric is a good player so i've no idea why Yoshida keeps getting game time at RB. It's starting to **** me off and every single pl manager knows to target him, so why play him there? If Koeman thinks that Cedric and Martina are worse than Yoshi at RB then we need a new one asap! Yup. I've added a RB to my letter to Santa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Martina signing baffles me. Not good enough in Holland, so why sign him even as back up? Richest league in the world and a team in Europe yet we settled for second best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 29 November, 2015 Share Posted 29 November, 2015 Martina signing baffles me. Not good enough in Holland, so why sign him even as back up? Richest league in the world and a team in Europe yet we settled for second best. Sometimes I think we now have a poundland shopping policy. Never mind the tat that we're buying, look at the price tag. Unless of course we thought that Yoshida was a genuinely serious replacement at RB, must be some reason that we resigned him I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 We need a new first choice right back. Clearly Koeman has his reservations with Cedric. We need someone who can hold the position down the way Bertrand does at LB and Clyne did last season. Batman is not a penis for starting this thread. Could Janmaat do a job for us when Newcastle are relegated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 Martin Samuel in The Mail thinks this fellow might be worth a punt: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3338721/Why-don-t-Premier-League-clubs-look-Jamie-Vardys-Conor-McLaughlin-not-exotic-story-s-Northern-Ireland-s-choice.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 Martin Samuel in The Mail thinks this fellow might be worth a punt: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3338721/Why-don-t-Premier-League-clubs-look-Jamie-Vardys-Conor-McLaughlin-not-exotic-story-s-Northern-Ireland-s-choice.html If he was worth a punt then someone would probably have taken one. Reputation seems to be entirely based on his international career. Still..can't be much worse than Martina really. Better than Mc Carthy though...who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 If he was worth a punt then someone would probably have taken one. Reputation seems to be entirely based on his international career. Still..can't be much worse than Martina really. Better than Mc Carthy though...who knows. That's what I thought. I think the point of the article is that clubs seem willing to splash out on relatively unknown players from foreign leagues yet not do the same with our own lower leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 That's what I thought. I think the point of the article is that clubs seem willing to splash out on relatively unknown players from foreign leagues yet not do the same with our own lower leagues. Well it's the Daily Mail ain't it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 Sometimes I think we now have a poundland shopping policy. Never mind the tat that we're buying, look at the price tag. Unless of course we thought that Yoshida was a genuinely serious replacement at RB, must be some reason that we resigned him I suppose. If he was worth a punt then someone would probably have taken one. Reputation seems to be entirely based on his international career. Still..can't be much worse than Martina really. Better than Mc Carthy though...who knows. Given he works alongside Steve Davis you'd think perhaps we might know. Samuel could well have used us more to make his point, but then he is a ****. But in this case he is right, we signed Martina rsther than take this chance. Trouble with Samuels article is that he comes across as a bit of an ant Romanian racist, but then it is the Mail, so to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 Would be a good call. Much bigger physically than Cedric, and currently refusing to sign a new contract at Leeds - a deal could be done that would give us real options at right back. Why is it a good call? Byram has been playing right wing not right back for over a season - he can't get in a shambles of a Leeds side under any manager and we don't play right wingers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 Yup. I've added a RB to my letter to Santa Nice !..but I suppose it's more important if such a player was on RK's wish list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 Martin Samuel in The Mail thinks this fellow might be worth a punt: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3338721/Why-don-t-Premier-League-clubs-look-Jamie-Vardys-Conor-McLaughlin-not-exotic-story-s-Northern-Ireland-s-choice.html To be fair he has a point. As a scout you don't have to be much of a genius to pick up a full international costing north of £6-7m but playing in a different country as a recommendation. The real quality comes from finding the likes of seamus Coleman for £60,000. People rave about or scouting set up but look at celtics, brought in van Dijk, Wanyama and Forster for less than £6m combined and sold them for over £30m. Now of course if we were to have sold Clyne last summer and replaced him with the next Seamus Coleman then fans would be in meltdown at the lack of ambition. Fans are as guilty as clubs, big fees + fancy names mean we're signing superstars, Lower league players = lack of ambition. I don't know why more don't bring in a few top performers from league one as squad players. We've all seen how it's possible to make that transition. I'm sure there is a better right back in league one than CuCo Martina that can play as a last resort and who knows one or two of them might surprise us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 To be fair he has a point. As a scout you don't have to be much of a genius to pick up a full international costing north of £6-7m but playing in a different country as a recommendation. The real quality comes from finding the likes of seamus Coleman for £60,000. People rave about or scouting set up but look at celtics, brought in van Dijk, Wanyama and Forster for less than £6m combined and sold them for over £30m. Now of course if we were to have sold Clyne last summer and replaced him with the next Seamus Coleman then fans would be in meltdown at the lack of ambition. Fans are as guilty as clubs, big fees + fancy names mean we're signing superstars, Lower league players = lack of ambition. I don't know why more don't bring in a few top performers from league one as squad players. We've all seen how it's possible to make that transition. I'm sure there is a better right back in league one than CuCo Martina that can play as a last resort and who knows one or two of them might surprise us all. And yet our head of recruitment is formerly from Huddersfield FC, you'd think he'd know all about gems playing in lower leagues wouldn't you...we still didn't sign anyone from English football last summer despite spending what 40 odd million in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 To be fair he has a point. As a scout you don't have to be much of a genius to pick up a full international costing north of £6-7m but playing in a different country as a recommendation. The real quality comes from finding the likes of seamus Coleman for £60,000. People rave about or scouting set up but look at celtics, brought in van Dijk, Wanyama and Forster for less than £6m combined and sold them for over £30m. Now of course if we were to have sold Clyne last summer and replaced him with the next Seamus Coleman then fans would be in meltdown at the lack of ambition. Fans are as guilty as clubs, big fees + fancy names mean we're signing superstars, Lower league players = lack of ambition. I don't know why more don't bring in a few top performers from league one as squad players. We've all seen how it's possible to make that transition. I'm sure there is a better right back in league one than CuCo Martina that can play as a last resort and who knows one or two of them might surprise us all. Good post. That is what makes the signing of Martina even more odd - a right back that can defend and put in a decent cross surely cannot be that hard to find across the leagues? It's not like a 20 goal striker - everyone wants one but to recruit what all the Dutch fans thought was a joke yet can't get a game for love nor money strikes me as really odd in a position that should be easy to recruit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 30 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 30 November, 2015 To be fair he has a point. As a scout you don't have to be much of a genius to pick up a full international costing north of £6-7m but playing in a different country as a recommendation. The real quality comes from finding the likes of seamus Coleman for £60,000. People rave about or scouting set up but look at celtics, brought in van Dijk, Wanyama and Forster for less than £6m combined and sold them for over £30m. Now of course if we were to have sold Clyne last summer and replaced him with the next Seamus Coleman then fans would be in meltdown at the lack of ambition. Fans are as guilty as clubs, big fees + fancy names mean we're signing superstars, Lower league players = lack of ambition. I don't know why more don't bring in a few top performers from league one as squad players. We've all seen how it's possible to make that transition. I'm sure there is a better right back in league one than CuCo Martina that can play as a last resort and who knows one or two of them might surprise us all. that is true. read a piece from a journo describing Martial as an 'astute and clever signing' astute and clever??? £50m or what ever it was is never an 'astue' signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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