70's Mike Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 if administration happens i just hope all the small crditors who do work for the club are paid in full first, even though it is technically illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Saint Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 You cling to the second point in particular and have done in many posts, but surely you must realise that there are no guarantees that we will be rid of Lowe. We might, we might not. We simply don't know. But I do find it astonishing that anybody can regard the process of administration as something slightly unpleasant and best got out of the way quickly, rather like having a filling. From what I know I'd say it's something best avoided if remotely possible - rather like root canal surgery without anaesthetic. and when the alternative is a slow and painful death by gangrene from a fetid and infected chairman...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 IF we went into administration, what is to stop RL buying us up on the cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Saint Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 IF we went into administration, what is to stop RL buying us up on the cheap? Leon Crouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 IF we went into administration, what is to stop RL buying us up on the cheap? question why would he ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 question why would he ? I don't know Mike - it was a sort of rhetorical question, really. He'd get us debt-free though, wouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 I don't know Mike - it was a sort of rhetorical question, really. He'd get us debt-free though, wouldn't he? but even he must know that he would start running them up again because he would not have the support of the people in this city. unless their really is oil at jacksons farm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 but even he must know that he would start running them up again because he would not have the support of the people in this city. unless their really is oil at jacksons farm Hasn't bothered him so far though. BTW I'm not advocating him or administration. I was sort of playing the devil's advocate really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 As it is the playoffs do now look beyond us but I would certainly expect with the extra experience they have gained, the current squad (hopefully minus Skacel and Ewell) should do better in the second half of the season and pull clear some time before the final weeks. Have to say I prefer this one UP. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Fcuukc me!!!!!!! I was wetting myself so much over the Pearson bit that I didn't realise it got even worse:rolleyes::smt044:smt044 Delusional, out of touch, in a fantasy of his own, does indeed sound like Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 Fcuukc me!!!!!!! I was wetting myself so much over the Pearson bit that I didn't realise it got even worse:rolleyes::smt044:smt044 Delusional, out of touch, in a fantasy of his own, does indeed sound like Lowe. village "something else" springs to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 and when the alternative is a slow and painful death by gangrene from a fetid and infected chairman...? Truth told, there's no likely alternative which looks anything other than gloomy at the moment. But a look at clubs who've gone into administration recently doesn't indicate happy outcomes for them. I'm not pretending to know the answers, it's just that the prospect of administration scares the sh!t out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 Apparently there's going to be a feature on the state of local football clubs on BBC 1 South Today tomorrow at 6:30pm. There was a trailer tonight with Steve Claridge talking about a club in dire straits. He was hoping they wouldn't get relegated but said their finances were in a dreadful state and he feared the worst. However, he didn't actually say which club he was talking about. Might be worth watching tomorrow :smt102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 Truth told, there's no likely alternative which looks anything other than gloomy at the moment. But a look at clubs who've gone into administration recently doesn't indicate happy outcomes for them. I'm not pretending to know the answers, it's just that the prospect of administration scares the sh!t out of me. Administration scares me too. There is no knowing what the outcome will be, there may not be an outcome. After 50 plus years I cannot imagine a life without Saints, for better or worse. Thinking there will be a 'white knight' waiting in the wings to come in, buy us on the cheap and turn our fortunes around is misconceived, especially in todays financial climate. No club has really benefited from administration, it drains the all the life blood away and recovery in less than ten years is almost unheard of. You have to start again with vitually nothing and that is harder than keeping going in the first place. Please people, don't wish for administration, hope for something else, what ever it might be, but not administration. It is not a tacticle move on when best to take a ten point hit, its about our future existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 I hope this is a typo or this post may rank as being the most ridiculous one ever to make it onto these pages It may be ridiculous .. but I bet the PR agency Lowe is employing will pay him handsomely for writing this rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 I used to think relegation would entail automatic Administration but I'm not quite so sure now . The income drop from the CCC to L1 seems relatively minor compared to the drastic financial implications relegation from the Premier League brings , couple that with indications that the club seems to be planning for some kind of medium term future (signing players and adding to the coaching staff etc) and it may well mean Rupert Lowe believes he's identified a way to keep SFC in existence even after likely relegation this season - doubtless involving another round of drastic cost-cutting next summer . It remains to be seen if Lowe is right or not in this and the ultimate decision lies with our creditors rather than the SLH Board . Much will depend on the upcoming level of season ticket renewals . Looking at the calibre of the head coach and to be frank some of the players employed in the 1st team and you might almost say we've been preparing for League One all season . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted 8 January, 2009 Share Posted 8 January, 2009 If Fitzhugh Fella is right Chapel End, the current management is in it's death throes and administration will be here by the month end: My take on this, Trousers, is this has been leaked by Lowe to prepare for his absolvement of blame when the club goes into administration later this month. Lowe is simply getting his "not my fault guv" excuse in early. Whilst certainly most of the excesses took place while the execs and Wilde were running the show it is also fair to say his previous mistakes laid the not so fertile ground into which Hone and Co wasted what litle crop we had to sow. (A farming analogy rather than a nautical one for a change). Leon Crouch himself told me the circumstances of Euell's arrival. He was at Staplewood and had a meeting with Hone (with Burley present) to discuss whether or not to sanction the signing. Crouch maintains he was against it due to the prohibitive cost but the board was split 50/50%. Hone and Crouch had a blazing row. The impasse only ended when David Jones sweet-talked Keith Wiseman into believing the club could afford the wages etc and Wiseman's vote sealed the deal. This was the start of the Crouch/Hone battle which culminated in Crouch's removal from the PLC board - only to mount a comeback (aided by a payoff) to remove the execs in December 07. Why the execs were so hellbent on supporting Burley (who by then had already been spoken to by Hone over his lifestyle problems), I have no idea except perhaps they had no long term interest and were happy to gamble. (I can confirm Hone had spoken to Burley - in case anyone accuses me of spreading rumours -because Oldknow told me in person on one of the many times I was summoned to SMS to discuss my anti execs postings on the previous forums). David Jones is the man Lowe (and us) should be blaming the most - he has been there more than 10 years and was the person most responsible for the finances. At the recent AGM he tried to weasel out of the "81% accusations" by rather ingeniously saying that Euell and Co would be gone in a couple of years and the percentage would then drastically lower. It was a pretty tame and limp explanation and one Lowe did not invite him to expand upon. So as the club lurches into administration the blame game continues to be played and whilst no one is free of culpability some are certainly guiltier than others. For me Lowe, Wilde and Jones are the main villains alongside the execs but as the latter group have already ridden off into the sunset with their saddlebags full of cash is it not time for the former group to take their leave too? It is my honest belief having spoken to him that if Lowe and Wilde resigned, Crouch would put enough cash in to stave of administration but Lowe would rather the club go under than hand back the reigns to the man whio engineered his first forced removal. My take on this, Trousers, is this has been leaked by Lowe to prepare for his absolvement of blame when the club goes into administration later this month. Lowe is simply getting his "not my fault guv" excuse in early. Whilst certainly most of the excesses took place while the execs and Wilde were running the show it is also fair to say his previous mistakes laid the not so fertile ground into which Hone and Co wasted what litle crop we had to sow. (A farming analogy rather than a nautical one for a change). Leon Crouch himself told me the circumstances of Euell's arrival. He was at Staplewood and had a meeting with Hone (with Burley present) to discuss whether or not to sanction the signing. Crouch maintains he was against it due to the prohibitive cost but the board was split 50/50%. Hone and Crouch had a blazing row. The impasse only ended when David Jones sweet-talked Keith Wiseman into believing the club could afford the wages etc and Wiseman's vote sealed the deal. This was the start of the Crouch/Hone battle which culminated in Crouch's removal from the PLC board - only to mount a comeback (aided by a payoff) to remove the execs in December 07. Why the execs were so hellbent on supporting Burley (who by then had already been spoken to by Hone over his lifestyle problems), I have no idea except perhaps they had no long term interest and were happy to gamble. (I can confirm Hone had spoken to Burley - in case anyone accuses me of spreading rumours -because Oldknow told me in person on one of the many times I was summoned to SMS to discuss my anti execs postings on the previous forums). David Jones is the man Lowe (and us) should be blaming the most - he has been there more than 10 years and was the person most responsible for the finances. At the recent AGM he tried to weasel out of the "81% accusations" by rather ingeniously saying that Euell and Co would be gone in a couple of years and the percentage would then drastically lower. It was a pretty tame and limp explanation and one Lowe did not invite him to expand upon. So as the club lurches into administration the blame game continues to be played and whilst no one is free of culpability some are certainly guiltier than others. For me Lowe, Wilde and Jones are the main villains alongside the execs but as the latter group have already ridden off into the sunset with their saddlebags full of cash is it not time for the former group to take their leave too? It is my honest belief having spoken to him that if Lowe and Wilde resigned, Crouch would put enough cash in to stave of administration but Lowe would rather the club go under than hand back the reigns to the man whio engineered his first forced removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I'll let you into a little secret. I get stick for my views and have done for donkeys, but i'm usually proved right in the long run. Since when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 You really have no grasp on reality have you? To spell it out very slowly for you this club is in a mess because of indulgences like employing Pearson and allowing him to pay salaries that were too high for the income we receive (though to be fair he was far from the worse culprit on this one). Yes Rupert is a c£$t but actually his Dutch experiement is the only way we could survive and have some hope. As it is the playoffs do now look beyond us but I would certainly expect with the extra experience they have gained, the current squad (hopefully minus Skacel and Ewell) should do better in the second half of the season and pull clear some time before the final weeks. Lowe and his Dutch experiment is the only way to survive? Please tell me that you are not serious and this is a tongue in cheek post? Or that you have a sense of irony. At the very least you aren't at SMS regularly - we have won ONE home league game this season and that was only thanks to a fluke goal from Robertson and a highly debatable penalty. OK, we played well twice V Reading but one swallow doesn't make a summer. The League 1 play offs look beyond us, let alone the CCC ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 It may be ridiculous .. but I bet the PR agency Lowe is employing will pay him handsomely for writing this rubbish. There are definately PR plants on here again and I noticed it pre-XMAS. They are using a variety of usernames and tactics - some come on here wanting to pick a fight and are very aggressively pro-board and others like Village are peddling a softer line but nevertheless commnunicate in a very OS-type way. One of the user names I am 99% sure made an appearance as a plant on S4E in 2006 so they are not very smart with it. The mods really need to get on top of it - debate and differing opinions are healthy but Wilde really started it by using S4E as a propaganda tool so Rupert countered it (not making excuses for him either) and it really made me distrust the club as a fan and I know I'm not alone on this point. It leads to a downward spiral of mutual suspicion that only an 100% fresh start can break. Personally, I'm still trying to cling to the hope that we get a 11th hour buyer before administration however unrealistic that probably is in the current world climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 The stupid thing about all this is that we are only a couple of older players and a decent manager away from scoring goals and climbing the table. If that happened the crowds would swell and both relegation and administration would be held off, or is that just wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 The stupid thing about all this is that we are only a couple of older players and a decent manager away from scoring goals and climbing the table. If that happened the crowds would swell and both relegation and administration would be held off, or is that just wishful thinking? No, I think there's some truth in that. Perhaps 3-4 more experienced players would make us competitive again but we've just signed one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 There are definately PR plants on here again and I noticed it pre-XMAS. They are using a variety of usernames and tactics - some come on here wanting to pick a fight and are very aggressively pro-board and others like Village are peddling a softer line but nevertheless commnunicate in a very OS-type way. One of the user names I am 99% sure made an appearance as a plant on S4E in 2006 so they are not very smart with it. The mods really need to get on top of it - debate and differing opinions are healthy but Wilde really started it by using S4E as a propaganda tool so Rupert countered it (not making excuses for him either) and it really made me distrust the club as a fan and I know I'm not alone on this point. It leads to a downward spiral of mutual suspicion that only an 100% fresh start can break. Personally, I'm still trying to cling to the hope that we get a 11th hour buyer before administration however unrealistic that probably is in the current world climate. So who are these 'plants' - are you going to name and shame? How do you identify them? What criteria? When, in your view, does a post come from a PR plant and why should they not be allowed? Even a PR plant has a point of view to put across just as you and I do? Perhaps you think I am one because I said I dreaded administration and the consequences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 (edited) So who are these 'plants' - are you going to name and shame? How do you identify them? What criteria? When, in your view, does a post come from a PR plant and why should they not be allowed? Even a PR plant has a point of view to put across just as you and I do? Perhaps you think I am one because I said I dreaded administration and the consequences? I will identify posts as I see them and no, I don't believe that you are one. This is a site for Saints FANS which is why Wilde was a bit naughty in the way he used S4E and got the ball rolling. Rupert was totally out of order using club money to hire PR companies and their posts were and are as subtle as a brick. Look at Village's post on us not making the CCC play-offs and you'll see the type of gaga stuff that is being posted again! No Saints fan with a clue about football would have posted that and you'll also notice that although they are not intending to, they talk about the club in a third party way. It's insulting on the fans to post spin that is clearly inaccurate (there is no way the team is going to suddenly pull away with a string of wins in an even weaker state, especially if Kelvin goes), we fans do no doubt post things that are speculation and conjecture because we are in the dark on what is happening. I suspect we'll go into a CVA shortly but I have few facts to base this on. There are a lot of posters on there that have a different take on boardroom matters but I get on well with the vast majority of them as they are fellow fans and I respect their opinion even if it is very different to mine. What I have no time for is people paid by the current regime invading a leisure site and posting blatant spin which fans can see through. It stirs people up and creates further divisions in a time of inflamed opinions. Edited 9 January, 2009 by saint1977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 So who are these 'plants' - are you going to name and shame? How do you identify them? What criteria? Easy. They are the ones that go defensive when someone has the temerity to suggest there might be PR plants on the MB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I've long welcomed administration and took stick but it's water off a ducks back to me. My feeling is, and always has been, that it's inevitable so you have to look at the positives and the positives are; 1. the sooner it happens the better - as we can then get the show on the road instead of slowly dieing. 2. Lowes shares will become worthless and WE WILL BE RID OF HIM*. *Lowe isn't like Ken Bates who was the largest creditor at Leeds. Lowe doesn't have a pot to **** in in comparison with Ken Bates. Leon Crouch on the other hand could well be waiting to pick up the pieces.... Really be careful what you wish for Stanley ..... If the club did go into Administration it would surely enter it with a pre-pack agreemnt negotiated by the incumbent board , as the debts are mostly to Barclays as Avivia has security on its debt the person best placed to negotiate a Pre-pack is the one currently negotiating with bank RUPERT !! Rest assured any half decent businessman would take this course of action and history shows that the incumbents are always favoured over new bids by the admistrators , Jeff Mostyn and Ken Bates being prime examples. Administration is NOT the way forward it should be avoided at all costs , lets just hope it isnt orchestrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Really be careful what you wish for Stanley ..... If the club did go into Administration it would surely enter it with a pre-pack agreemnt negotiated by the incumbent board , as the debts are mostly to Barclays as Avivia has security on its debt the person best placed to negotiate a Pre-pack is the one currently negotiating with bank RUPERT !! Rest assured any half decent businessman would take this course of action and history shows that the incumbents are always favoured over new bids by the admistrators , Jeff Mostyn and Ken Bates being prime examples. Administration is NOT the way forward it should be avoided at all costs , lets just hope it isnt orchestrated. And in Charlie's post... PLEASE SEE ABOVE FOR THE REASONING OF LOWE AND WILDE'S RETURN. It's not to save the club, it is to pick it up after being in pole position. Watch Rupert suddenly find investors when the timing is right - what is his buddy David Ross doing now after his issues at Carphone Warehouse??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Christ... give up already. Thats **** poor. To those who want administration i shake my head. It WILL NOT do anything benificial for our club. Thick and thin - How many of you posters have uttered the holy words "SAINTS TILL I DIE" - Well if your posting here - you are still alive. I want Saints to survive and hopefully prosper. You can critize your club but to want it gone ???? Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 And in Charlie's post... PLEASE SEE ABOVE FOR THE REASONING OF LOWE AND WILDE'S RETURN. It's not to save the club, it is to pick it up after being in pole position. Watch Rupert suddenly find investors when the timing is right - what is his buddy David Ross doing now after his issues at Carphone Warehouse??? You would have thought, wouldn't you, that this guy would have been barred from business activity after he allegedly broke Stock Exchange Rules by borrowing against his Carphone shares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 You would have thought, wouldn't you, that this guy would have been barred from business activity after he allegedly broke Stock Exchange Rules by borrowing against his Carphone shares? Hmmm..you'd hope so wouldn't you. Unfortunately as the credit crunch has proved the City is full of LOWElifes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Really be careful what you wish for Stanley ..... If the club did go into Administration it would surely enter it with a pre-pack agreemnt negotiated by the incumbent board , as the debts are mostly to Barclays as Avivia has security on its debt the person best placed to negotiate a Pre-pack is the one currently negotiating with bank RUPERT !! Rest assured any half decent businessman would take this course of action and history shows that the incumbents are always favoured over new bids by the admistrators , Jeff Mostyn and Ken Bates being prime examples. Administration is NOT the way forward it should be avoided at all costs , lets just hope it isnt orchestrated. Sadly this is true and a fair point and although far from certain to happen in a CVA, is well within the means of the possible as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I remember not that long ago anyone who mentioned the "A" word was shot down in flames, abused and laughed at. How tragic that it is now being discussed like a Universal Truth...:-( It's tragic in the sense that people have written off this season when we are only half way through. Administration is not a 'universal truth' nor is relegation a certainty, I just hope that the players have the stomach for the fight which many of you are clearly lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 It's tragic in the sense that people have written off this season when we are only half way through. Administration is not a 'universal truth' nor is relegation a certainty, I just hope that the players have the stomach for the fight which many of you are clearly lacking. Oh how you've cheered me up no end. The credit crunch is biting. I've been made redundant for the first time in my working life. Saints are in freefall with egotistical maniacs in charge up top. And individuals like yourself still blindly walk along thinking that we are staying up!!! Priceless. Thanks for making me laugh.....which PR firm are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Oh how you've cheered me up no end. The credit crunch is biting. I've been made redundant for the first time in my working life. Saints are in freefall with egotistical maniacs in charge up top. And individuals like yourself still blindly walk along thinking that we are staying up!!! Priceless. Thanks for making me laugh.....which PR firm are you in? At what game last season had you resigned yourself to relegation ??? :confused: PS - on a more serious note.. I hope you are back in the working force asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 (edited) It's tragic in the sense that people have written off this season when we are only half way through. Administration is not a 'universal truth' nor is relegation a certainty, I just hope that the players have the stomach for the fight which many of you are clearly lacking. The fans have been through plenty of relegation battles - half-a-dozen of them in the 1990s as we held on for a new stadium and another three this decade so far so "fight" or "spirit" is not one thing our fans lack. I agree that administration is not a universal truth (in fact it would be very unpleasant and painful all-round) but it is clear that even with the playing wages cut right to the bone, the board cannot service the club's overhead levels. We are not far off running out of players to sell and it is not a sustainable position, League 1 reduces the income further. Relegation is not a certainty but most of the regular SMS attenders on this site will tell you, me included, that it's highly likely based on performances and results since the autumn. Edited 9 January, 2009 by saint1977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 At what game last season had you resigned yourself to relegation ??? :confused: PS - on a more serious note.. I hope you are back in the working force asap. Cheers Bones... I actually had high hopes for this season (after all we were all mainly calling for a squad cull last season anyway), but unfortunately reality has bitten over the last few months. We probably needed to bring in 4-5 experienced players. The sheer presence of RL has damaged this club NO END. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I do agree Mr Sideburns. I wasn't totally against Lowes return - But this was his oppurtunity to sit in the shadows and try his plans/gambles using a more 'people friendly' front. Sadly the tit for tat from our extremely mature board members have driven the fans into almost apathy. I also agree on the trasnfer front - I hope "Size" is the first of a few experianced heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I do agree Mr Sideburns. I wasn't totally against Lowes return - But this was his oppurtunity to sit in the shadows and try his plans/gambles using a more 'people friendly' front. Sadly the tit for tat from our extremely mature board members have driven the fans into almost apathy. I also agree on the trasnfer front - I hope "Size" is the first of a few experianced heads. Pretty accurate barometer IMO of how many Saints fans I know feel about the current situation, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Oh how you've cheered me up no end. The credit crunch is biting. I've been made redundant for the first time in my working life. Saints are in freefall with egotistical maniacs in charge up top. And individuals like yourself still blindly walk along thinking that we are staying up!!! Priceless. Thanks for making me laugh.....which PR firm are you in? No I don't. Until the forest game I remained optimistic, but now I think there is a real chance that we'll go down. My point is simply that we are half way through the season and relegation is not a certainty as many people are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 The fact that our results are deteriorating,while our relegation competitors are improving,and we are/will lose our best players this month means that relegation is 90% certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint 76er Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 The fans have been through plenty of relegation battles - half-a-dozen of them in the 1990s as we held on for a new stadium and another three this decade so far so "fight" or "spirit" is not one thing our fans lack. I agree that administration is not a universal truth (in fact it would be very unpleasant and painful all-round) but it is clear that even with the playing wages cut right to the bone, the board cannot service the club's overhead levels. We are not far off running out of players to sell and it is not a sustainable position, League 1 reduces the income further. Relegation is not a certainty but most of the regular SMS attenders on this site will tell you, me included, that it's highly likely based on performances and results since the autumn. The fear of imminent administration seems to be gripping most supporters at present, with our situation considered unsustainable and no viable answer at hand. Certainly Rupert Lowe is running the club into the ground apace, either through incompetence or possibly a pre planned administration which seems to be the current worry of many with Saints interests at heart. However, it seems to me that Leon Crouch has made it pretty well known that if Lowe and his cabal leave then Crouch will step in and not only arrange (hopefully) for competent management to be returned to the club (not necessarily with LC as chairman) but critically will be prepared to kick in enough money to stave off administration and, presumably with a new manager, give us reasonable hope of avoiding the drop as well. As there simply seems to be no other alternative out there I think we have to take Crouch at his word and support his return. Rather than there being no solution to our malaise, in reality it would seem a relatively simple matter of Lowe agreeing to an orderly transfer of power with Lowe withdrawing to "concentrate on other matters" and with his reputation (such as it is) intact if that is how he wants to do it. If Lowe has not the required expertise to solve our problems or money to invest, then surely for the sake of the club (an institution of 124 years standing) he should hand over without question to the one known person who apparently does have enough money available to maintain the club as a going concern? I would point out that if it all ends in administration shortly then Lowe's shares will be worthless so he doesn't seem to have a lot to lose by walking away and, if he's lucky, Crouch may even pay him a small amount for them. Of course IMO, if Lowe hangs on and continues driving us towards administration then those who fear he has a hidden and/or cynical agenda may possibly be proved correct.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Certainly Rupert Lowe is running the club into the ground apace, either through incompetence or possibly a pre planned administration which seems to be the current worry of many with Saints interests at heart. Can't agree with this... Surely if Rupert wanted to run the club into the ground he would have played the high earners constantly and also not put players up for sale and/or loan. I know he is the Anti-Christ to many - But seriously ? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I would point out that if it all ends in administration shortly then Lowe's shares will be worthless so he doesn't seem to have a lot to lose by walking away and, if he's lucky, Crouch may even pay him a small amount for them. Of course IMO, if Lowe hangs on and continues driving us towards administration then those who fear he has a hidden and/or cynical agenda may possibly be proved correct.... To be fair it isn't Lowe's fault that we were spending 81% of turnover on wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 To be fair it isn't Lowe's fault that we were spending 81% of turnover on wages. Neither was it necessarily Leon Crouch's - doesn't stop many on here blaming him for our demise..even though his plan was probably more realistic than Lowe's. He signed Rasiak though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 It's funny how David Jones - one of Lowes cronies - has been at Saints throughout the last 10 years and how he rubberstamped the 81%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 It's funny how David Jones - one of Lowes cronies - has been at Saints throughout the last 10 years and how he rubberstamped the 81%. And who was in charge when this 81% was approved ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 So who are these 'plants' - are you going to name and shame? How do you identify them? What criteria? When, in your view, does a post come from a PR plant and why should they not be allowed? Even a PR plant has a point of view to put across just as you and I do? Perhaps you think I am one because I said I dreaded administration and the consequences? A dead give away of a plant is when they write something like " lowe may be a complete tossa but what you cannot dispute is ...." and then go on about how wonderful he is. Village did it here - from memory Lowe's plants were caught doing this before on S4E. Its almost as if they need to establish that they are anti Lowe before spewing up the guff that makes iit blatantly obvious that they think the sun shines out of his whatsit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 A dead give away of a plant is when they write something like " lowe may be a complete tossa but what you cannot dispute is ...." and then go on about how wonderful he is. Village did it here - from memory Lowe's plants were caught doing this before on S4E. Its almost as if they need to establish that they are anti Lowe before spewing up the guff that makes iit blatantly obvious that they think the sun shines out of his whatsit!! I think Lowes PR companys words were "Lowes a bit of a tosser but..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 A dead give away of a plant is when they write something like " lowe may be a complete tossa but what you cannot dispute is ...." and then go on about how wonderful he is. Village did it here - from memory Lowe's plants were caught doing this before on S4E. Its almost as if they need to establish that they are anti Lowe before spewing up the guff that makes iit blatantly obvious that they think the sun shines out of his whatsit!! I would be very surprised if there are PR plants on here, you won't change the minds of those on this board and it's not the opinion shaper it once was. I think it is, more often than not, a cheap jibe by someone who can't understand that someone could possibly disagree with them. To be honest there are some opinions on here that are so vile, bitter and one-sided that they do more for raising positive posts for Lowe than any PR would. I don't agree with everything RL does/is doing, and will say as much. However, there are times when I feel compelled to defend him from people who blame him for everything post WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 10 January, 2009 Share Posted 10 January, 2009 I would be very surprised if there are PR plants on here, you won't change the minds of those on this board and it's not the opinion shaper it once was. I think it is, more often than not, a cheap jibe by someone who can't understand that someone could possibly disagree with them. To be honest there are some opinions on here that are so vile, bitter and one-sided that they do more for raising positive posts for Lowe than any PR would. I don't agree with everything RL does/is doing, and will say as much. However, there are times when I feel compelled to defend him from people who blame him for everything post WWII. Oh not just post WWII. He has on many an occasion been compared to Hitler. And Robert Mugabe of course. Pol Pot hasn't come up yet...but i'm sure it's only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 10 January, 2009 Share Posted 10 January, 2009 I would be very surprised if there are PR plants on here, you won't change the minds of those on this board and it's not the opinion shaper it once was. I think it is, more often than not, a cheap jibe by someone who can't understand that someone could possibly disagree with them. I have to agree that it is probably not the forum it once was, but I think it still does carry a certain degree of gravitas. I have certainly heard that some of those in and outside of SMS have referred to it recently (scary really, in a way)!!!! As for PR plants, I think that accusation will sadly always be with us now, following the charade a couple of years back. Looking back you have to admire those who did some digging to find out that Lowe was actually paying people to post on here!!!!!! Thanks to the PR Office's poor attempts at subtefuge, there will always be shouts of PR plant. To be honest there are some opinions on here that are so vile, bitter and one-sided that they do more for raising positive posts for Lowe than any PR would. I don't agree with everything RL does/is doing, and will say as much. However, there are times when I feel compelled to defend him from people who blame him for everything post WWII. Once again I have to agree, but think we also have to accept that this type of vitriol isn't just restricted to some in the anti Lowe camp. There have also been numerous vitriolic attacks on Wilde, Crouch, McMenemy et al. Additionally some of the more sycophantic pro Lowe posts, (which if they don't come from PR plants!!), often do the exact opposite of what their authors intended (unless of course there is some reverse psychology in play, as I'm sure Scooby & some others were actually anti Lowe!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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