One thing I do miss.

[Leicestersaint]

Watching young English talent coming through in the current team.

 

That Pottychino at Spurs has moved Ali, Mason and other careers forward while JWP, Harrison and Taggarts has stalled.

 

I remember how proud we were a couple of seasons ago on how our youngsters would either be playing regularly or sitting on the bench and getting games.

I would love a return to those days with a mix of the foreigners we keep bringing in.

 

I do agree - I think the treatment of Reed is particularly disappointing.

[Window Cleaner]

I do agree - I think the treatment of Reed is particularly disappointing.

 

Strange case Reed, must be approaching having more game time for various England unders sides than he has ever had for Saints first XI.

[CB Fry]

Yeah but he stuck with them and aided there development. I know he's universally hated by our fans but nobody can deny the fact that he has a good pedigree at spotting young talent and blooding them into the first team. He's did it with Espanyol, us and now he's doing it at Spurs.

 

Who did he "stick with"? I've given him Chambers, but Shaw clearly was a stand out and would have got game with whoever was the manager. Who else?

 

Happy to say that players we had like Lallana and Morgan all developed under MP but they developed under Pards and Adkins too. Not entirely sure who these players are that MP stuck with are supposed to be.

[aintforever]

I'm not bothered in the slightest. Watching players like Pelle and Mane is great.

[Sour Mash]

Who did he "stick with"? I've given him Chambers, but Shaw clearly was a stand out and would have got game with whoever was the manager. Who else?

 

Happy to say that players we had like Lallana and Morgan all developed under MP but they developed under Pards and Adkins too. Not entirely sure who these players are that MP stuck with are supposed to be.

Yep, and which of these players Koeman wouldn't "stick with" if he was in-charge whilst they were here.

[sadoldgit]

I'm not bothered in the slightest. Watching players like Pelle and Mane is great.

 

I think that is the bottom line. It is all about quality.

[doddisalegend]

Yeah but he stuck with them and aided there development. I know he's universally hated by our fans but nobody can deny the fact that he has a good pedigree at spotting young talent and blooding them into the first team. He's did it with Espanyol, us and now he's doing it at Spurs.

 

I actually think Poch prefers to work with young players who will buy into his philosophy and do the double training sessions with a smile on their face in a way more experienced players might not.

[Lighthouse]

Nah- don't buy that. He initially looked pretty good under Poch -at least IMO- but then got injured (if you'll recall). But the specifics are moot: players take time to settle with new managers.

 

You just have to look at his subsequent career at Liverpool, despite having another season of experience under his belt and playing alongside better players. Admittedly, there are many reasons why he hasn't hit the same heights; but MP's ability to get the best out of him, both individually and as part of a system, figures highly.

 

Still fill your boots if you think Lallana would have progressed the same had Adkins stayed on

 

2011 Championship Lallana was a million times better than 2008 Championship Lallana and all without having ever met Pochettino. If he improved that much under Pardew and Adkins in the lower leagues, I fail to see why he couldn't have continued to improve in the Premier League. For that matter, I fail to see why he couldn't have improved under Koeman either.

 

At Liverpool he was badly managed by Rodgers. It remains to be seen what Klopp cna get out of him.

[sadoldgit]

Still wish we'd look to lower leagues than just going abroad. Plenty of talent around just needs a chance.

 

I guess Forster and Rodriguez should be playing but who knows if either will come back, just leaving Bertrand and JWP really. That's not enough.

 

Not sure why it has to be 'relegation with british youngsters' or success with foreigners. We've shown that's not true, and plenty have wasted fortunes on foreign players and been relegated anyway. I mean we ditched Puncheon and Cork but have players like Elia, Djuricic, Romeu been better?

 

Still think Phillips would be a good signing from QPR. Can do it at this level, real competition for Mane and a different option for Tadic, who will have a lot of infuriating matches.

 

It doesn't have to be relegation with British youngsters if they are good enough and that is the issue. We have had some youngsters that are clearly quality and some youngsters who are not as good. We didn't ditch Cork, he decided to go and sit on Swansea's bench instead of ours but I agree about Puncheon. Neither of those players are that young though.

Edited 23 November, 2015 by sadoldgit

[Window Cleaner]

It doesn't have to be relegation with British youngsters if they are good enough and that is the issue. We have had some youngsters that are clearly quality and some youngsters who are not as good. We didn't ditch Cork, he decided to go and sit on Swansea's bench instead of ours but I agree about Puncheon. Neither of those players are that young though.

 

But Cork and Puncheon were still relatively young when they were with us. Now for me the team seems to have lost it's soul,

the giving 100% every time and playing for the blokes around you. Apparently Long has trotted out as an excuse that it was cold and windy on Saturday and Koeman blamed it on the atmosphere..whatever that may be.

Edited 23 November, 2015 by Window Cleaner

[doddisalegend]

Mauricio Pochettino reviving England's fortunes by giving youth a chance at Southampton and Spurs

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mauricio-pochettino-reviving-englands-fortunes-6856564

 

POCHETTINO'S ENGLAND OUTFIELD TEN

 

Nathaniel Clyne (Southampton, now Liverpool)

 

Eric Dier (Tottenham)

 

Calum Chambers (Southampton, now Arsenal)

 

Luke Shaw (Southampton, now Manchester United

 

Ryan Mason (Tottenham)

 

Dele Alli (Tottenham)

 

Adam Lallana (Southampton, now Liverpool)

 

Rickie Lambert (Southampton, now West Bromwich)

 

Harry Kane (Tottenham)

 

Jay Rodriguez (Southampton)

 

Could imagine the meltdown if that was England's front line

[david in sweden]

Watching young English talent coming through in the current team.

That Pottychino at Spurs has moved Ali, Mason and other careers forward while JWP, Harrison and Taggarts has stalled.

I remember how proud we were a couple of seasons ago on how our youngsters would either be playing regularly or sitting on the bench and getting games.

I would love a return to those days with a mix of the foreigners we keep bringing in.

 

 

In recent years, we've grown accustomed to seeing Academy lads graduating to the first team squad, but even if we call Walcott, Bale and Alex O-C " old history ", we've still had Shaw, Chambers and the ever-present JWP coming through the ranks. Like many others I'm keen to look forward to the next Academy-trained name to hit the headlines....

but the fact remains that ;

(1) you need to have lad who is /as good as / better than the incumbent. (2) atm...there are no outstanding players who could oust one of the present starting line-up.

 

All the Pochettino praise for using youngsters at Saints (and Spurs) is not totally valid, as when he put out a team over almost 2 years ago, Calum Chambers proved to be an adequate replacement for Clyne.... and Shaw almost looked " world class" compared to the out-of-form Fox.

When an intensive injury crisis came... Reed and Gallagher weren't just names on the bench and got some game time but then we lost Wanyama and Schneiderlin to big injuries in successive weeks....and all of this coinciding with one of Rickie Lambert's worst "non-scoring " spells , then we had the Osvaldo fiasco in a season that finished us off with JayRod's catastrophic injury saga. There were few / no suitable replacements to use.

 

Pochettino's fame rose at Spurs, when he was forced to use Harry Kane in his first months at Spurs because the bulk of the Bale transfer money had been squandered on no-account players who couldn't hit a barn door at 6 yards. Harry K. hit the form of his life, and Ryan Mason and Dier fitted well into a balanced new squad.

 

Ronald Koeman ..to his credit..in a very similar injury situation last season, gave game time to ; Hesketh, Reed, Gape, McCarthy, Targett, Isgrove and Seager in a matter of weeks, and in several games of those had 4 U21 players on the bench, and Reed and JWP in the starting 11.

 

An earlier thread this season discussed the point about the relative strength(s) of The Team and The Squad. Many fans and several players commented that the squad was better than last season with the net result, that very few of the current U21's are likely to get a real look-in... barring another injury crisis.

 

The U21's have had a mixed season so far, but while the loan absences of; Gallagher, Isgrove, Stephens, Turnbull and McCarthy speaks volumes for our youth development, it does mean that IF they were still here they'd be first in the pecking order. Those here now are fast improving, but nowhere near first team level yet.

Edited 23 November, 2015 by david in sweden

[Window Cleaner]

 

 

 

The U21's have had a mixed season so far, but while the loan absences of; Gallagher, Isgrove, Stephens, Turnbull and McCarthy speaks volumes for our youth development, it does mean that IF they were still here they'd be first in the pecking order. Those here now are fast improving, but nowhere near first team level yet.

 

But players of real quality do not faff about in unders sides when they're 18-21 years old, they're up there in the first team group playing week in week out. Whether that's anything to do with our current manager or our past manager who knows. The only thing that you can really say is that these lads,once thought promising, are not breaking into the first team as well as their counterparts from other sides. A run out for 10 minutes in the C1C against some minnows or other doesn't really count in the greater order of things, you only have to look at fan reaction when we lose against a lower division side to know that. In the end we'll end up writing off most of these starlets and they'll wend their merry ways to Yeovil,Swindon and beyond.

[david in sweden]

The one thing I do miss... is an good old-fashioned, barn-storming CF ...of the old school.

Chivers, Davies, Channon, Clarke, Ostenstad and Beattie are just photos in the history book for many younger fans, although I wouldn't denegrate great names like George O'Brien, Stokes,Wallace, Boyer, MacDougall and Pahars .....simply because they weren't of " equal stature." MLT was in a class of his own.

 

For all their varied qualities, it has been a joy to see Lambert.. and now Pelle in recent years - as " the big man up front", but such players seem hard to find and much sought-after by "so-called" big clubs. I'd enjoy seeing "another" Pelle" - in a season or two - just as long as it's not a cousin - whose only talent is ballroom dancing.

 

[david in sweden]

ut players of real quality do not faff about in unders sides when they're 18-21 years old, they're up there in the first team group playing week in week out.

 

In the end we'll end up writing off most of these starlets and they'll wend their merry ways to Yeovil,Swindon and beyond.

 

 

and thats the way it is for many of the Academy lads. I made a list of former Academy lads in the last 10 years (those who haven't disappeared without trace that is).

I got to 20......but almost all of them were playing in L1 and L2 clubs. It's not a criticism of our Academy system, but perhaps that until recently) scouts from "bigger clubs " have the first choice - especially in the big Metropolitan areas. Les Reed made the point in " the Southampton Way " documentary, that we often pick up on lads that the other clubs reject because of lack of physical build etc,

 

Looking at the intake of U18 players from two years ago. Harley Willard and Olufela Olomola were Arsenal rejects (?) and Richard Bakary... was let go by Chelsea.

Now neither of those clubs are likely to suffer if those lads make it to Prem. level, but it would make a lot of difference to us if they do make the grade.

 

There are good talents in both the current U18 / U21 sides. Ryan Seager must surely get some game time soon, but would you drop Pelle, Mane or Tadic to put him in?

Jake Hesketh and Calum Slattery look to be great prospects but who would leave out of Saturday's starting side to put them in?....

 

As for the comment about 18/21's playing week in and week out (?) If there is a raft of fantastic teenagers playing in the Prem.every week - I've missed seeing them.

I grant you there are one or two outstanding individuals - but not that many.

 

If you think there are lads in our U21 -- or even U18 sides, who ought to be in the starting line-up now....do please reply with your suggestions, as to who you would drop from the current start side......and who you'd replace them with. But personally..... I can't see it ....at the moment.

Edited 23 November, 2015 by david in sweden

[nta786]

Kelvin

Clyne Fonte Yoshida Shaw

Cork Morgan

Davis Lallana JayRod

Lambert

 

It was nice having a British spine like the one above- shame it has gone, but in reality, if we want to progress, we should have a team with quality, not nationality.

[Donatello]

I'd like to see Hesketh on the bench in place of the second defender (Caulker). That would be my gripe this season, but perhaps that's fanciful thinking.

 

Who the Hell knows what's going on with Harrison Reed. I'm not sure I'd have felt too comfortable going into the season (+ europe) with Wanyama, Clasie, JWP, and Reed as our CM options though. Even with Romeu in the fold, one injury and he's (Reed) back on the bench (unless Koeman is that opposed to him) - although I guess that's the case with many an academy player across the league (an injury or two from the bench).

 

I guess the question is, of our matchday 18, how many academy players/young English players would you be content with? (Not taking starting into account)

 

P.S I'm not convinced Seager is the most 'future-proof' option we have. His skill set just seems too limited (imo). As above, Hesketh would be my academy bench player. Then Reed. Then Seager. (I haven't seen much of Slattery, in spite of all the talk).

[Village Saint]

I'm not giving the club stick for giving JWP all the chance in the world to develop' date=' I just also want to see Reed given some sort of a chance as well. It's not clear to me why one is getting a chance and the other not. There is probably a good reason, but for me it's not evident for any reason on the pitch that I have seen.[/quote']

 

Really! JWP seems to me streets ahead of Reed. More vision; more creativity; better positional sense etc etc. Unfortunately, Harry is one who hasn't really taken the chances he has had. He may still come through but I am not sure I have seen anything in his performances in the Under 21s (where for me the lightweight Hesketh continually outshines him) or first team to suggest he is going to be more than a decent championship player. What do you see as Harry's USP?

[CB Fry]

I'm not giving the club stick for giving JWP all the chance in the world to develop' date=' I just also want to see Reed given some sort of a chance as well. It's not clear to me why one is getting a chance and the other not. There is probably a good reason, but for me it's not evident for any reason on the pitch that I have seen.[/quote']

Not sure you can say JWP is getting a "chance" now - he's a 100-appearance first team regular. It's like saying Pelle is getting a chance.

 

Clearly something is up with Reed but I'd suggest it is more to do with his performances in training and in the U21s than anything the management are doing wrong. He's at one of the best clubs in the land for the development of young - if any young footballer in the country has got a chance, Harrison Reed has got a chance. Let's hope he takes it.

[sadoldgit]

But Cork and Puncheon were still relatively young when they were with us. Now for me the team seems to have lost it's soul,

the giving 100% every time and playing for the blokes around you. Apparently Long has trotted out as an excuse that it was cold and windy on Saturday and Koeman blamed it on the atmosphere..whatever that may be.

 

To be fair to Long it was cold and windy on Saturday, bless his little cotton socks.

[Whitey Grandad]

To be fair to Long it was cold and windy on Saturday, bless his little cotton socks.

 

He was flogging a dead horse, to be honest. Kept running his socks off winning corners and running into positions only for Tadic do ignore him or float the corner into Butland for catching practice.

[The9]

2011 Championship Lallana was a million times better than 2008 Championship Lallana and all without having ever met Pochettino. If he improved that much under Pardew and Adkins in the lower leagues, I fail to see why he couldn't have continued to improve in the Premier League. For that matter, I fail to see why he couldn't have improved under Koeman either.

 

At Liverpool he was badly managed by Rodgers. It remains to be seen what Klopp cna get out of him.

 

Klopp already seems to have doubled his usefulness to them in a few weeks, can't be hurt by the similarities to Bielsa/Pochettino's high press, Lallana doesn't have the pace to beat teams on his own and needs options around him to use his skill in retaining possession high up the pitch and then moving the ball quickly in order to create chances for others.

[The9]

and thats the way it is for many of the Academy lads. I made a list of former Academy lads in the last 10 years (those who haven't disappeared without trace that is).

I got to 20......but almost all of them were playing in L1 and L2 clubs.

 

Could have saved yourself the hassle with a thread search. A quick "Holder-Spooner" will probably find it for you.

Edited 23 November, 2015 by The9

[david in sweden]

Could have saved yourself the hassle with a thread search. A quick "Holder-Spooner" will probably find it for you.

 

......it really wan't " a hassle ". I'm a self-confessed " stats. nerd " and history is my favourite subject.......

 

Churchill made his famous comment about Statistics, but often they do go to disprove what may seem to be " the obvious ".

[david in sweden]

[quote=Lallana's Left Peg;2275247

 

]Personally think Harry Reed should have had much more of a chance and the signing of Romeu must have been a kick in the teeth for him.

 

 

I thought Romeu was a backup for Wanyama ?.....without either of them we have no height or real muscle in midfield.

[The9]

I thought Romeu was a backup for Wanyama ?.....without either of them we have no height or real muscle in midfield.

 

I'd say Romeu was our top 6 defensive wall 2 DM formation option, we haven't used it much recently as Clasie being fit and not playing any of the sides expected to finish top 6 means we're lined up a little less defensively.

[The9]

......it really wan't " a hassle ". I'm a self-confessed " stats. nerd " and history is my favourite subject.......

 

Churchill made his famous comment about Statistics, but often they do go to disprove what may seem to be " the obvious ".

 

Any chance you have any stats to disprove your last sentence?

[Donatello]

I'd say Romeu was our top 6 defensive wall 2 DM formation option, we haven't used it much recently as Clasie being fit and not playing any of the sides expected to finish top 6 means we're lined up a little less defensively.

 

I'd like to see more of Romeu in place of Wanyama (who I don't think is having a particularly good season). I think we'd have seen more of him if not for his mental disciplinary issues (I.e. his compulsion to get booked ).

 

Incidentally, do you think Harrison Reed would've been able to play (competent enough) as one of the two DMs in a system against the top 6?

[Roo1976]

Watching young English talent coming through in the current team.

 

That Pottychino at Spurs has moved Ali, Mason and other careers forward while JWP, Harrison and Taggarts has stalled.

 

I remember how proud we were a couple of seasons ago on how our youngsters would either be playing regularly or sitting on the bench and getting games.

I would love a return to those days with a mix of the foreigners we keep bringing in.

 

thats because the three we have that you mentioned are not good enough..................simple........Next.

[Big Dick Last]

Are our youngsters really that good ?

We have farmed out a few to lower league clubs and some still cannot get a regular game.

Look at the young English players in the premier league. They are miles ahead of ours.

[Window Cleaner]

Are our youngsters really that good ?

We have farmed out a few to lower league clubs and some still cannot get a regular game.

Look at the young English players in the premier league. They are miles ahead of ours.

 

If any of them apart from JWP ever got any PL game time we might be able to form an opinion. As they don't then you'd have to assume that Koeman sees no need or reason to use any of them and he must know better than any of us...right?

[Whitey Grandad]

Are our youngsters really that good ?

We have farmed out a few to lower league clubs and some still cannot get a regular game.

Look at the young English players in the premier league. They are miles ahead of ours.

 

If they were any good they would have been sold. Just my opinion, of course

 

Or let me put it another way, somebody would have bought them.

[Donatello]

If any of them apart from JWP ever got any PL game time we might be able to form an opinion. As they don't then you'd have to assume that Koeman sees no need or reason to use any of them and he must know better than any of us...right?

 

Targett has played enough

[Pilchards]

thats because the three we have that you mentioned are not good enough..................simple........Next.

 

Of course they WERE good enough, one is the captain of the England U21's while another is the regular at left back.

IMHO they are not being coached as good as the old management team we had.

 

The way some of the young Spurs players are progressing was like many of ours a couple of years back.

[The9]

I'd like to see more of Romeu in place of Wanyama (who I don't think is having a particularly good season). I think we'd have seen more of him if not for his mental disciplinary issues (I.e. his compulsion to get booked ).

 

Incidentally, do you think Harrison Reed would've been able to play (competent enough) as one of the two DMs in a system against the top 6?

 

I don't think he should be considered against anyone in the top half at the moment, and I think Reed needs to play games for someone, maybe a Championship side to get some game time. When he did play he was too reckless and got himself booked for silly late niggly tackles too often. In modern football you need those yellow cards for calculated play-breaking fouls rather than actively hoofing people and late tackles. The only way to get that kind of habit out of your system is to test yourself in game conditions and make conscious decisions not to make a tackle in the same situation. You can't really recreate it in training, but then rumours suggest Reed's absence is to do with his choices and not his ability anyway.

[Window Cleaner]

Targett has played enough

 

So what's the current opinon on his progress then ? He was a stand in for Bertrand so obviously no real comparison can be made yet on their respective qualities.

[Sour Mash]

Of course they WERE good enough, one is the captain of the England U21's while another is the regular at left back.

IMHO they are not being coached as good as the old management team we had.

 

The way some of the young Spurs players are progressing was like many of ours a couple of years back.

JWP has shown as much improvement under Koeman as he did under MP.

 

If I understand correctly, you're suggesting that playing for England u21s makes them good enough to star in our first team?

[Window Cleaner]

JWP has shown as much improvement under Koeman as he did under MP.

 

If I understand correctly, you're suggesting that playing for England u21s makes them good enough to star in our first team?

 

Then again you have to consider the England U21 possibles who've graduated to the full national side at an early age such as Barkley,Shelvey,AOC and now Alli . If Barkley was still in the U21s would the now 21 yr old JWP still be there or captain.

Edited 24 November, 2015 by Window Cleaner

[CB Fry]

How has JWP's career "stalled"?

[Saint Charlie]

How has JWP's career "stalled"?

I wouldn't say "stalled" but he must be quite frustrated when he sees how the likes of Alli, Mason and especially Dier have jumped into the England squad and he isn't a regular Saints starter after 4 years in the PL and the sale of our best central midfielder.

 

I still don't think he knows what kind of midfielder he is or what his best position is, plus has obvious physical limitations.

 

Also the best free kick specialist in Europe to have never scored a free kick in a pro men's match.

 

But he is still a decent player and still has loads of time.

[doddisalegend]

How has JWP's career "stalled"?

 

Interesting comments from JWP in this article. Certainly doesn't sound like he thinks his career has stalled especially this quote

 

It’s inspiring and promising to know my friends and team-mates are getting the opportunity. If I can replicate what I have done for Southampton and continue my progress for the Under 21s hopefully that will come. I’ve been pleased with my form. It’s been the best spell of games in my career.’

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3312653/James-Ward-Prowse-takes-hope-Eric-Dier-Dele-Alli-England-21s-promotion-close.html

[Saint Charlie]

Interesting comments from JWP in this article. Certainly doesn't sound like he thinks his career has stalled especially this quote

 

It’s inspiring and promising to know my friends and team-mates are getting the opportunity. If I can replicate what I have done for Southampton and continue my progress for the Under 21s hopefully that will come. I’ve been pleased with my form. It’s been the best spell of games in my career.’

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3312653/James-Ward-Prowse-takes-hope-Eric-Dier-Dele-Alli-England-21s-promotion-close.html

He talks a better game than he plays in many ways. Not a criticism either. Got to use whatever tools you have and he speaks and behaves well.

[shurlock]

He talks a better game than he plays in many ways. Not a criticism either. Got to use whatever tools you have and he speaks and behaves well.

 

There's a boy-next-door-role in some unspecified sitcom with James name on it, if the whole football thing doesn't pan out.

[Window Cleaner]

There's a boy-next-door-role in some unspecified sitcom with James name on it, if the whole football thing doesn't pan out.

 

Or failing that, Home Alone XIV

[Lighthouse]

Or failing that, Home Alone XIV

 

Nah, he's already got another career lined up

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Somewhen soon JWP has to live up to this " potential " he's supposed to have . Personally I don't see it .Really good young players shine bright and then dip , they're inconsistent . I just don't see the ups with him , he's average at best . Whens he ever got you off your seat the way Jack Grelish did for spells last season . Ross Barclay can look class at times, Alli is having a great spell at the moment. JWP is just meh, week in week out . Perhaps he's got something that the professional eye can see that a fat 50 year old supporter can't , but I'd wish he'd hurry up and show it on a match day . What's he got apart from a great set piece ritual ? Looking the part by bouncing the ball , making a signal , looking up, is all well and good but when's he going to actually do something concrete? Being England captain at under 21 level means **** all if 5 of your age group play in the seniors . If the under 21 side was made up of all eligible players he wouldn't get a game .

[Window Cleaner]

Didn't Citeh want to give us 20 million for him a while back..well this way with the money then gents.

[Donatello]

Somewhen soon JWP has to live up to this " potential " he's supposed to have . Personally I don't see it .Really good young players shine bright and then dip , they're inconsistent . I just don't see the ups with him , he's average at best . Whens he ever got you off your seat the way Jack Grelish did for spells last season . Ross Barclay can look class at times, Alli is having a great spell at the moment. JWP is just meh, week in week out . Perhaps he's got something that the professional eye can see that a fat 50 year old supporter can't , but I'd wish he'd hurry up and show it on a match day . What's he got apart from a great set piece ritual ? Looking the part by bouncing the ball , making a signal , looking up, is all well and good but when's he going to actually do something concrete? Being England captain at under 21 level means **** all if 5 of your age group play in the seniors . If the under 21 side was made up of all eligible players he wouldn't get a game .

 

It's probably a little unfair to compare him to Barkley and Grealish because they're true AMs, but I get the gist of what you're saying (and Ali is being deployed there now! At least he was against West Ham).

 

Edit: Incidentally, he does have a few quality moments - see his cross for VVD's goal against Swansea, and the cross he put in for Mane against United (which Pelle scored the rebound from). They don't go down as assists, but they're as good as.

Edited 25 November, 2015 by Donatello

[Window Cleaner]

It's probably a little unfair to compare him to Barkley and Grealish because they're AMs, but I get the gist of what you're saying,

 

And JWP is what exactly...this is the problem, no one really knows, he's certainly not got the qualities to make a real DM,

if he's not an AM then that only leaves the nebulous role of CM or utility man.

[once_bitterne]

How has JWP's career "stalled"?

 

It's his 4th season in the PL now and he hasn't seemed to have advanced much even in terms of working out what his position is. The worrying thing is that he gets numerous chances in the starting line-up but can't seem to ever hold down a place and instead always gets dropped after two or three games.