St Lej Posted 21 November, 2015 Share Posted 21 November, 2015 I'm struggling to remember any game at SMS where we've scored late to either grab a draw or win for a very long time. 1-1 at home to Sunderland in Aug 13 is literally the most recent I can remember. Seems we really struggle to break sides down at home once we either go 1-0 down or if the game stays 0-0 until the last 10-15 mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 21 November, 2015 Share Posted 21 November, 2015 Pompey... Oh wait. We bottled that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 21 November, 2015 Share Posted 21 November, 2015 Probably Blackpool the week before skates away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 21 November, 2015 Share Posted 21 November, 2015 Mane against Palace last March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Lej Posted 21 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 21 November, 2015 Mane against Palace last March. Sod's law immediately after I posted the thread I remembered that one. But still, it goes to show how few and far between these games actually are. One game in two and a half seasons where we've scored a goal in the last 10 mins at SMS to either grab a win or rescue a point. Admittedly part of the reason is that in many games we've been comfortably ahead by the last 10 mins, but it does show that if we don't get ahead early, we tend to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 21 November, 2015 Share Posted 21 November, 2015 Sod's law immediately after I posted the thread I remembered that one. But still, it goes to show how few and far between these games actually are. One game in two and a half seasons where we've scored a goal in the last 10 mins at SMS to either grab a win or rescue a point. Admittedly part of the reason is that in many games we've been comfortably ahead by the last 10 mins, but it does show that if we don't get ahead early, we tend to struggle. Absolutely. We had a real problem under Pochettino of giving up the ghost as soon as we conceded - even if it was an equaliser. At times we'd even be pegged back to 2-1 and become deflated. We've had a fair few 1-0 home defeats in the last few years where, in my heart of hearts, I knew we wouldn't equalise despite huffing and puffing in the last 10. Today, Swansea last season, Cardiff the year before that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Came back from 2-2 against fulham in our first season back up with a last minute equaliser as well. It happens as often for us as most other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Lej Posted 22 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Came back from 2-2 against fulham in our first season back up with a last minute equaliser as well. It happens as often for us as most other teams. Which is not very often then, if you're having to go back 4 seasons to remember the previous one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Absolutely. We had a real problem under Pochettino of giving up the ghost as soon as we conceded - even if it was an equaliser. At times we'd even be pegged back to 2-1 and become deflated. We've had a fair few 1-0 home defeats in the last few years where, in my heart of hearts, I knew we wouldn't equalise despite huffing and puffing in the last 10. Today, Swansea last season, Cardiff the year before that... Wasn't his last season here when we were top of 'points lost' league which means when we went in front we were rarely pegged back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Yesterday morning BT showed a table of where teams would be were games to have finished at half time and Saints were joint top with Man Utd and Watford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Absolutely. We had a real problem under Pochettino of giving up the ghost as soon as we conceded - even if it was an equaliser. At times we'd even be pegged back to 2-1 and become deflated. We've had a fair few 1-0 home defeats in the last few years where, in my heart of hearts, I knew we wouldn't equalise despite huffing and puffing in the last 10. Today, Swansea last season, Cardiff the year before that... I thought it was quite the opposite..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 When was the last time we came from behind to win at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 When was the last time we came from behind to win at home? Villa under Adkins? Nothing immediately comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 There certainy aren't many. Others I recall are Fonte's equaliser against Sunderland, and you could maybe count Gallagher's against Norwich in the 4-2 game when we were 3-0 up with 5 minutes to go and gifted them 2 goals before we broke away and sealed the game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lickierambert Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Villa under Adkins? Nothing immediately comes to mind. That is indeed the last one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 I blame the early leavers. Fans give up, players give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 November, 2015 Share Posted 23 November, 2015 Mané equalised (to 1-1)....in the game at Liverpool in the 86th minute? Good enough ? Last season.....Mané again 1-0 win in 93rd minute at QPR .... and 1-0 in 83rd min.at Palace. Wanyama in 80th min. 1-0 win at Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 November, 2015 Share Posted 23 November, 2015 When was the last time we came from behind to win at home? Good question ! we've come back to earn a draw on quite a few occasions in recent years, but the answer to this one ....is probably in my old file - written with a quill pen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 23 November, 2015 Share Posted 23 November, 2015 Mané equalised (to 1-1)....in the game at Liverpool in the 86th minute? Good enough ? Last season.....Mané again 1-0 win in 93rd minute at QPR .... and 1-0 in 83rd min.at Palace. Wanyama in 80th min. 1-0 win at Swansea. David in Sweden doesn't understand what "at home" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Lej Posted 23 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 23 November, 2015 Mané equalised (to 1-1)....in the game at Liverpool in the 86th minute? Good enough ? Last season.....Mané again 1-0 win in 93rd minute at QPR .... and 1-0 in 83rd min.at Palace. Wanyama in 80th min. 1-0 win at Swansea. What part of the "at home" part of the thread are you struggling with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 November, 2015 Share Posted 23 November, 2015 I'd like to see "home games in which Saints were drawing or losing by 1 goal after 80 minutes" compared to "probability of any team scoring after 80 minutes in the Premier League" and compare the Saints figures to the frequency of "all late goals when losing by 1 goal or drawing" to see if we're any better or worse than anyone else, before anyone starts getting upset about it. You could also compare Saints goals after 80th minute when losing or drawing with goals after 80th minute when winning... Even then there's probably bias in there somewhere, winning/top sides are generally going to score more than losing/bottom sides overall too, making them more likely to score late as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 ..the entire point was that ....I can't recall the last time that we did recover from a negative scoreline in a home game and then go onto win. The answer was probably lost on the hard disk of my old computer......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 ..the entire point was that ....I can't recall the last time that we did recover from a negative scoreline in a home game and then go onto win. The answer was probably lost on the hard disk of my old computer......... Yes, but the ability to recall something happening for which the probability is very low anyway is not something anyone should be concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 Seriously a bit of a "state the obvious" thread/observation by its very nature , for four out the last five seasons we have been a good side that has generally outperformed most teams we have played... The comment above saying we would be joint top of the league if games ended at half time also backs this up... We are rarely the team chasing for last minute goals... ergo its hardly surprising that we don't often get one. This is especially relevant since you are all talking about long timescales and we have finished 2nd, 14th, 8th, 7th and are currently 8th.... In only one of those seasons were we poor and that was only for half the campaign. Most of the time we have been on top and are the other team are the ones chasing games. You would expect poorer teams to be often chasing games, with those that fail to get wins being relegated, and those that get the odd late win or draw sitting just above the relegation zone. Likewise, the teams at the very very top will snatch the odd victory at the end of matches. As an above average mid table club that often dominates it is less likely we will get key points late on inmho. Hence people commenting on it in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 Seriously a bit of a "state the obvious" thread/observation by its very nature , for four out the last five seasons we have been a good side that has generally outperformed most teams we have played... The comment above saying we would be joint top of the league if games ended at half time also backs this up... We are rarely the team chasing for last minute goals... ergo its hardly surprising that we don't often get one. This is especially relevant since you are all talking about long timescales and we have finished 2nd, 14th, 8th, 7th and are currently 8th.... In only one of those seasons were we poor and that was only for half the campaign. Most of the time we have been on top and are the other team are the ones chasing games. You would expect poorer teams to be often chasing games, with those that fail to get wins being relegated, and those that get the odd late win or draw sitting just above the relegation zone. Likewise, the teams at the very very top will snatch the odd victory at the end of matches. As an above average mid table club that often dominates it is less likely we will get key points late on inmho. Hence people commenting on it in this thread. The whole idea of fergie time must have been a figment of my imagination, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 It is annoying how we seem to be much better at conceding late on rather than scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 It is annoying how we seem to be much better at conceding late on rather than scoring. At least we're good at something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 The whole idea of fergie time must have been a figment of my imagination, then. Well Shurlock, if you either learn to read (or to apply that ability).... You'll see that I also say that teams at the top win games in the last minute. But don't let that stop you making either an ass of yourself or insulting other forum members. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 Didn't we go the entire season in Poch's last year without winning a game after going behind?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 Didn't we go the entire season in Poch's last year without winning a game after going behind?. We went his entire tenure without winning a game after going behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 Well Shurlock, if you either learn to read (or to apply that ability).... You'll see that I also say that teams at the top win games in the last minute. But don't let that stop you making either an ass of yourself or insulting other forum members. lol You may say it but it doesn't really flow from the rest of your addled logic - your argument, it seems, is that the more teams dominate, the less they need to go chasing goals. By extension, this applies more, not less to top sides. Don't the top sides dominate games more than we do? True, moments later, out of thin air, you conjure up the statement that the top top sides will snatch the odd victory at the end of games. Now if you said the top sides have more firepower and so other things being equal are more likely to score (though this isn't per se a point about last minute goals), then fair enough; but that's a new argument - and you might want to slow down pal, get your thoughts straight and make this clear. Of course, it's also mind-numbingly obvious, though, I can appreciate, it might seem a revelation to you Anyway, as a matter of fact, there are plenty of occasions last season we needed goals, whether it was to save a point or turn one into three - in fact, we ranked mid table when it came to failing to score in games. Contrary to your cute little effort, there was certainly a will; alas there wasn't always a way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 24 November, 2015 Share Posted 24 November, 2015 You may say it but it doesn't really flow from the rest of your addled logic - your argument, it seems, is that the more teams dominate, the less they need to go chasing goals. By extension, this applies more, not less to top sides. Don't the top sides dominate games more than we do? True, moments later, out of thin air, you conjure up the statement that the top top sides will snatch the odd victory at the end of games. Now if you said the top sides have more firepower and so other things being equal are more likely to score (though this isn't per se a point about last minute goals), then fair enough; but that's a new argument - and you might want to slow down pal, get your thoughts straight and make this clear. Of course, it's also mind-numbingly obvious, though, I can appreciate, it might seem a revelation to you Anyway, as a matter of fact, there are plenty of occasions last season we needed goals, whether it was to save a point or turn one into three - in fact, we ranked mid table when it came to failing to score in games. Contrary to your cute little effort, there was certainly a will; alas there wasn't always a way... No shurlock, what I say, is that the very best sides (i.e. fergie and the champions) have huge pressures to sneak wins and do it frequently, whilst at the same time they have teams that are desperate for a draw playing against them that give up any chance of a win and park the bus... it is a recipe for more common last minute attacks and they manage to break them down, that is why they are the top teams.... The bottom clubs frequently have to go all out attack and chase at the very end of games, they therefore have a higher probability of this occurring and those that fail go down. The you have the rest, who either don't have the quality and settle for draws more frequently (lower mid table) or have the quality and come upper half... these teams are often winning and dominating most games and therefore have less probability of being in a need to chase. Considering the way our seasons have gone (2nd championship) then fairly awful under Nigel for first part of that season but then picking up and outplaying teams, then dominating often under poch and koeman... is it hardly surprising that we fall in the bunch of teams that don't get late goals or points? We are not championship material, we lack that quality... does this surprise people? We often have often killed off games in advance, and when we don't teams are very solid at parking the bus in this league... we are not a top top team, we do not have the pressures of desperately needing the win so we rarely go hell for leather and risk letting in 1or2 at the back. The bottom clubs get outplayed, are desperate for wins, and they have to go for it, the ones that succeed stay up. Given the above, it really should not come as any surprise that we don't often score late on... that isn't the kind of team we are, and we haven't been for a few years. We outplay most teams, but we do not have world class quality that would make us genuine top 4 challengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 25 November, 2015 Share Posted 25 November, 2015 No shurlock, what I say, is that the very best sides (i.e. fergie and the champions) have huge pressures to sneak wins and do it frequently, whilst at the same time they have teams that are desperate for a draw playing against them that give up any chance of a win and park the bus... it is a recipe for more common last minute attacks and they manage to break them down, that is why they are the top teams.... The bottom clubs frequently have to go all out attack and chase at the very end of games, they therefore have a higher probability of this occurring and those that fail go down. The you have the rest, who either don't have the quality and settle for draws more frequently (lower mid table) or have the quality and come upper half... these teams are often winning and dominating most games and therefore have less probability of being in a need to chase. Considering the way our seasons have gone (2nd championship) then fairly awful under Nigel for first part of that season but then picking up and outplaying teams, then dominating often under poch and koeman... is it hardly surprising that we fall in the bunch of teams that don't get late goals or points? We are not championship material, we lack that quality... does this surprise people? We often have often killed off games in advance, and when we don't teams are very solid at parking the bus in this league... we are not a top top team, we do not have the pressures of desperately needing the win so we rarely go hell for leather and risk letting in 1or2 at the back. The bottom clubs get outplayed, are desperate for wins, and they have to go for it, the ones that succeed stay up. Given the above, it really should not come as any surprise that we don't often score late on... that isn't the kind of team we are, and we haven't been for a few years. We outplay most teams, but we do not have world class quality that would make us genuine top 4 challengers. To take last season as an example, the top 3 all won 22-26 games and the bottom 3 all won 7 or 8, so basically the top three won three times as many matches. And in goals, top 3 scored 71-83 goals, bottom 3, 28 to 42, so about double. Three times as many wins and double the goals. I'd suggest there will be no significant over-index of last minute/late goals for the team in 20th vs the team in 1st, and I'd suggest the distribution will be about even through the league, in general, as the goals-for column follows league placement with only a couple of outliers (last season QPR scored more than WBA). Your theory probably sounds good in your head but I would suggest wouldn't be backed up with actual stats in any given season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 26 November, 2015 Share Posted 26 November, 2015 Yes, but the ability to recall something happening for which the probability is very low anyway is not something anyone should be concerned about. ...which beggars the question .....why did St.Lej bother to write the OP in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 27 November, 2015 Share Posted 27 November, 2015 I'm sure if we can crack this key, existential question we can replace Koeman with a "crowd sourcing" manager from this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Lej Posted 27 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 27 November, 2015 ...which beggars the question .....why did St.Lej bother to write the OP in the first place? I sorry I spoil the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 27 November, 2015 Share Posted 27 November, 2015 It is annoying how we seem to be much better at conceding late on rather than scoring. Mate in the branfoot days that was par for the course. I remember expecting to concede late because that's what we did! If say in recent years were far less likely to do it than in any other time I can remember. In fact I don't even get needlessly worried with ten minutes to go anymore. Something that must've taken me a decade to lose Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 27 November, 2015 Share Posted 27 November, 2015 Mate in the branfoot days that was par for the course. I remember expecting to concede late because that's what we did! If say in recent years were far less likely to do it than in any other time I can remember. In fact I don't even get needlessly worried with ten minutes to go anymore. Something that must've taken me a decade to lose Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I agree mate. We were awful back then and even up until Pardew came in really I can always remember us conceding late goals! It's just annoying nowadays as we really shoot ourselves in the foot. We have a quality defence and when we press from the front and knock it about the opposition struggle to get the ball but for some reason now, we score, then sit back and invite the pressure. It's infuriating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 27 November, 2015 Share Posted 27 November, 2015 I agree mate. We were awful back then and even up until Pardew came in really I can always remember us conceding late goals! It's just annoying nowadays as we really shoot ourselves in the foot. We have a quality defence and when we press from the front and knock it about the opposition struggle to get the ball but for some reason now, we score, then sit back and invite the pressure. It's infuriating! mainly because for much of that time, we were a pretty shyte premier league side that had the odd decent season. shyte teams concede shyte goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 27 November, 2015 Share Posted 27 November, 2015 Mate in the branfoot days that was par for the course. I remember expecting to concede late because that's what we did! If say in recent years were far less likely to do it than in any other time I can remember. In fact I don't even get needlessly worried with ten minutes to go anymore. Something that must've taken me a decade to lose Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Didn't we beat Ipswich in an absolute cracker under Branfoot? Score changed three times in the dying mins, IIRC, with Le Tiss scrambling in the winner with virtually the final kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted 27 November, 2015 Share Posted 27 November, 2015 2nd season back up, Fonte header for 1-1 against Sunderland (FFS). Think it was the first home game of the season? Cancelled out midget Italian Giacharinni (sp) header. Apols if mentioned above but could not see it during brief scan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted 27 November, 2015 Share Posted 27 November, 2015 2nd season back up, Fonte header for 1-1 against Sunderland (FFS). Think it was the first home game of the season? Cancelled out midget Italian Giacharinni (sp) header. Apols if mentioned above but could not see it during brief scan. Oh ffs I've just realised it was mentioned in the OP (MASSIVE FACEPALM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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