Delmary Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 We stood off them from the start. Long in particular was guilty of this. He should not have started after such a long time out through injury. Our tempo was slow, we did not close the space and the team's attitude from the start was wrong. Plus the early goal killed us. RK will be well p*ssed off with their attitude today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 We stood off them from the start. Long in particular was guilty of this. He should not have started after such a long time out through injury. Our tempo was slow, we did not close the space and the team's attitude from the start was wrong. Plus the early goal killed us. RK will be well p*ssed off with their attitude today. It's not the first time; but it's staggering how much Cedric tucks in. He an abject game all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Unless you're one of the top top sides you're always going to get 2 or 3 of those performances each season . Stoke played well , defended well and had a crispness with their passing that we lacked . Classie played ok & personally I thought VvD did ok but other than that the rest were pretty ordinary . As well as he's played this season I wouldn't want Pelle in the trenches with me . Moaning at others and the booking was a effing disgrace , a selfish act . The ban is bad enough , but we needed the ball back in play quickly . The only upside is he'll miss a game that's pretty much a no hoper anyway . Substations were poor Juanmi looked like a little boy lost ,& JWP ****ing words fail me how slow he is . In one instance running after the ball I think I'd have got there quicker and I'm 50 and had 6 pints in my belly . Shocking . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biscuits Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 I need to get over the fact that I am always surprised that we never seem to be able to beat Stoke in decent fashion. It's always either a dull game with one goal in it or we struggle Like hell to break them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Unless you're one of the top top sides you're always going to get 2 or 3 of those performances each season . Stoke played well , defended well and had a crispness with their passing that we lacked . Classie played ok & personally I thought VvD did ok but other than that the rest were pretty ordinary . As well as he's played this season I wouldn't want Pelle in the trenches with me . Moaning at others and the booking was a effing disgrace , a selfish act . The ban is bad enough , but we needed the ball back in play quickly . The only upside is he'll miss a game that's pretty much a no hoper anyway . Substations were poor Juanmi looked like a little boy lost ,& JWP ****ing words fail me how slow he is . In one instance running after the ball I think I'd have got there quicker and I'm 50 and had 6 pints in my belly . Shocking . he offers zero movement across the front. which is standard pelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbot79 Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 International break screwed us. I've been quite happy that we've got good results so far even though we've lost key players etc. It'll come good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 International break screwed us. I've been quite happy that we've got good results so far even though we've lost key players etc. It'll come good Although if we'd played a "normal" Chelsea side the results wouldn't be all that good really. Pure hypothesis of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 International break screwed us. I've been quite happy that we've got good results so far even though we've lost key players etc. It'll come good How come the break didn't really screw Stoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 How come the break didn't really screw Stoke? Less internationals perhaps, haven't checked though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 We look so lethargic after the international breaks. Luckily the next one isn't until March. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 According to Soccerbase we have never won a league game Mason has refereed in 14 seasons. We beat Stoke in the cup last season & he was ref so 1 game in total & that is through 3 divisions. Those stats are at least 4 standard deviations from the mean which suggests nothing else other than Mason is a complete ****!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 he offers zero movement across the front. which is standard pelle. I'm looking forward to seeing Long playing in his proper position next week, against a team who play a high line as well. It was bad enough spending so much on him, but to have continuously misused him since has compounded it. Him and Mane will cause City problems I'm sure, just as they did at Chelsea last season when we played some of the best football we have under RK RK is so inflexible it's tedious sometimes. If Stoke are able to play a 3 of Bojan, Arnautovic and Shaqiri (all of whom would be considered 'luxury' players by Koeman) is it really that much to ask for us to play a slightly more creative team from the start when we're at home to mid-table sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 He would never get into Spurs side. Which is why they were so desperately trying to sign him of course...well if you believe agent and press talk that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Our players were asleep in their pyjamas and were lucky not to concede more goals. No excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 How come the break didn't really screw Stoke? Are Stoke the new Everton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 he offers zero movement across the front. which is standard pelle. Not a big fan of Pelle are you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 He was bought to be back up to Pelle and flexible to play out wide. Which is great apart from he is ****e out wide. Waste of money on a player with an average past, no improvement potential, no resale potential, sizeable wages and who doesn't suit our systems/style. Based on yesterday, I couldn't disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 According to Soccerbase we have never won a league game Mason has refereed in 14 seasons. We beat Stoke in the cup last season & he was ref so 1 game in total & that is through 3 divisions. Those stats are at least 4 standard deviations from the mean which suggests nothing else other than Mason is a complete ****!! http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/24264 Not sure about the validity of these stats and they are a little old but this caught my eye: "But take a moment and look at the team he favoured most… Stoke. That really is a big bias in their favour" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webby Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Shane Long. I know, I know, he's been out for a while but (and this isn't just based on this game), I think he is an awful excuse for a premier league footballer. He's got pace, and a decent work rate but, work rate is a standard requirement these days in the PL. So, ok he's got pace. That's no good if you have poor control. Poor touch, poor vision, poor passing ability. Argghh, he's just..... , I don't get it. If he'd cost us £3m or £4m I'd think, ok, useful bench player, but £12m?!!! Let Seager have a crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Shane Long. I know, I know, he's been out for a while but (and this isn't just based on this game), I think he is an awful excuse for a premier league footballer. He's got pace, and a decent work rate but, work rate is a standard requirement these days in the PL. So, ok he's got pace. That's no good if you have poor control. Poor touch, poor vision, poor passing ability. Argghh, he's just..... , I don't get it. If he'd cost us £3m or £4m I'd think, ok, useful bench player, but £12m?!!! Let Seager have a crack. We paid far too much for him but I'm not going to slate him when he's consistently played out of position. He's not a wide player and never has been but because he's quick we thought we'd convert him into one. A stupid idea and I hope he plays well next week when played up front to prove the point. He should be being used as a totally different option to Pelle up front (which should have been used a lot more than it has been) but Rk is too boring to change from his usual tactical set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Dreadful performance - all our players looked like they couldn't be bothered. Can RK motivate them? We are really rather mediocre I'm afraid. Long was awful but several others were very poor. Tadic flatters to deceive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylander Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Very poor display of passing and crossing - far too many passes missed their man and too many crosses either hit the first man or cleared everyone. Should give credit to Stoke; they played well and contained us so that we barely troubled Butland. If they could shoot they could have had 3 or 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Unless you're one of the top top sides you're always going to get 2 or 3 of those performances each season . Stoke played well , defended well and had a crispness with their passing that we lacked . Classie played ok & personally I thought VvD did ok but other than that the rest were pretty ordinary . As well as he's played this season I wouldn't want Pelle in the trenches with me . Moaning at others and the booking was a effing disgrace , a selfish act . The ban is bad enough , but we needed the ball back in play quickly . The only upside is he'll miss a game that's pretty much a no hoper anyway . Substations were poor Juanmi looked like a little boy lost ,& JWP ****ing words fail me how slow he is . In one instance running after the ball I think I'd have got there quicker and I'm 50 and had 6 pints in my belly . Shocking . Yup. Better for him to miss next weekend game, I was getting a little bit worried that he'd pick up a booking next weekend and miss the game against Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/24264 Not sure about the validity of these stats and they are a little old but this caught my eye: "But take a moment and look at the team he favoured most… Stoke. That really is a big bias in their favour" And he didn't ref us in those games either. I really wonder what actually happens to these guys? Friend last season, Madley this. They just get awarded another game as uf justifying their poor performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 (edited) Shane Long. I know, I know, he's been out for a while but (and this isn't just based on this game), I think he is an awful excuse for a premier league footballer. He's got pace, and a decent work rate but, work rate is a standard requirement these days in the PL. So, ok he's got pace. That's no good if you have poor control. Poor touch, poor vision, poor passing ability. Argghh, he's just..... , I don't get it. If he'd cost us £3m or £4m I'd think, ok, useful bench player, but £12m?!!! Let Seager have a crack. he was never worth £12m, even more so to a club like us. i find it really weird when people justify his price tag on here. Had villa or sunderland signed him for £12m we would all laugh at them Edited 22 November, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Yawn. He's an effective Premier League player who on the whole has done a good job for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Yawn. He's an effective Premier League player who on the whole has done a good job for us. yeah, he is alright. he has scored 29 league goals in his last 132 league games/5 years (141 games-37 goals in all comps) Just does not strike me anything remotely like a £12m player with little re-sale value for a club like saints hope he plays well next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 he offers zero movement across the front. which is standard pelle. You are paying no attention whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 You are paying no attention whatsoever. a typical Pelle heat map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Presumably Long will play up front next week? He did little yesterday but wasn't the only one. Personally I thought Bertrand was particuarly poor. Amazes me that Mane was on the bench, other players managed to fly back from far away International games and start. We were baffling sluggish in the first half, sat back worryingly, and it was no surprise we went behind. To me it seemed strange to substitute Claise who was the one player who had a decent game. I would have put Mane on at half time for Long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Long was awful and for me has been poor the whole time he's been here. People blinded as he appears to run around a lot but didn't even do that yesterday. When he is played upfront he's looked rubbish ie Watford away and people comparing him with pelle is a joke. Pelle scores goals. Long hasn't even scored more than 8 in the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Long was awful and for me has been poor the whole time he's been here. People blinded as he appears to run around a lot but didn't even do that yesterday. When he is played upfront he's looked rubbish ie Watford away and people comparing him with pelle is a joke. Pelle scores goals. Long hasn't even scored more than 8 in the championship. What about the 25 he scored for Reading in a single season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Long's goals scored versus minutes on the pitch for us must be reasonable, especially for a player that isn't playing as an out and out striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Anyone else think the pitch seemed poor yesterday? Cut up badly compared to other matches across the weekend, and didnt seems as slick as usual. Note: an observation, not any kind of excuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 (edited) What about the 25 he scored for Reading in a single season? He scored 21 in the Champ in 2010/11 but never more than 8 in a PL season (next best Championship return was 9 so has only ever got League double figures once in 10 seasons). His PL record by full season: 2, 3, 8, 8, 7, 5 He is the definition of PL average and has pretty much done as expected when we signed him in that post exodus period, oddly amongst other really clever, well thought out signings. Handy player for a WBA, Bournemouth, Villa etc who want to stay up. Not good enough for a team that want top 8 finishes. Edited 22 November, 2015 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webby Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 What about the 25 he scored for Reading in a single season? Evidently a one off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 LOL Nostradamus no one would take your bet that we wouldn't finish as high as our best ever two PL finishes ........I'm shocked. What's your next amazing prediction/bet? How about Shane Long won't win the Golden boot or Martina won't make the PL team of the season? Ahhhh interesting backtracking. When I (politely) made the prediction I was told that I was a moron for failing to agree that we had a better squad than the last two seasons. Now all of a sudden our likelihood of finishing higher than last season is on a par with Paddy Long winning the golden boot? Perhaps we'd actually have a decent atmosphere if we didn't have a fanbase that were deluded about our actual ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Ahhhh interesting backtracking. When I (politely) made the prediction I was told that I was a moron for failing to agree that we had a better squad than the last two seasons. Now all of a sudden our likelihood of finishing higher than last season is on a par with Paddy Long winning the golden boot? Perhaps we'd actually have a decent atmosphere if we didn't have a fanbase that were deluded about our actual ability. Behave we could have kept every player from the last two summers and still struggled to do as well as the last two seasons. Bettering your best league finish ever is hardly likely to happen season after season even with an improved squad anyone could tell you that which would be why no one would want to take you up on a bet based on the blatantly obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 OAhhhh interesting backtracking. When I (politely) made the prediction I was told that I was a moron for failing to agree that we had a better squad than the last two seasons. Now all of a sudden our likelihood of finishing higher than last season is on a par with Paddy Long winning the golden boot? Perhaps we'd actually have a decent atmosphere if we didn't have a fanbase that were deluded about our actual ability. We lost a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 (edited) Not a big fan of Pelle are you. Hates him, but wishes he was an evertonian... I wish he was too He is also utterly clueless as far as Pelle is concerned Edited 22 November, 2015 by ALWAYS_SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Behave we could have kept every player from the last two summers and still struggled to do as well as the last two seasons. Bettering your best league finish ever is hardly likely to happen season after season even with an improved squad anyone could tell you that which would be why no one would want to take you up on a bet based on the blatantly obvious. Its hard to improve your finish despite improving your squad? ...wait, what? Look, as I say. All I did was politely ask people to temper their expectations a little, stay off Koeman's back and just keep a level head this season. All I got was a load of verbal and personal attacks coupled with people deludedly claiming we'd finish 6th or above. And incidentally, you're wrong. People did say they'd take me up on the bet to finish with a higher position OR points tally than last season, but never stuck any money down. Anyway, my reason for doing all of that is hopefully so that we don't go into games at home to Stoke City like we're playing Stockport County back in League 1 thinking that we're completely entitled to win. We're going to finish roughly mid-table which is OK. Let's try and enjoy our games of football and keep an air of positivity about the place. Positivity doesn't come from thinking you're better than you are and being brought crashing back down to earth by the likes of Stoke. It comes from being realistic about your chances and staying enthusiastic throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 According to Soccerbase we have never won a league game Mason has refereed in 14 seasons. We beat Stoke in the cup last season & he was ref so 1 game in total & that is through 3 divisions. Those stats are at least 4 standard deviations from the mean which suggests nothing else other than Mason is a complete ****!! As soon as I knew Mason was refereeing, I knew that we would get nothing from him at all. The bloke is an absolute disgrace and must have something against us to ignore two penalties and to give us two bookings whilst one of the most thuggish teams in the division escape without a single card. To an extent, it's a shame that we as a club don't have players who would surround such an incompetent ars*hole as him, a manager too polite to just come out and say that he thought that when Mason referees our matches it is like playing against 12, or fans who aren't a bit more vocal in their derision of him. Ok, we were awful, but who can say what the response would have been from the lift that a scored penalty would have given us, or the improvement in our chances had Stoke had to come at us instead of sitting back and defending their lead? Apart from a 15 minute period shortly after the break when we kept returning the ball into their box incessantly, their full backs pressed up well and our two were exploited as weak links. Both Cedric and particularly Bertrand had really dire games. If Mane wasn't fully up to 90 minutes, I would rather have seen him for the first 45 and Long on for the last 20 when Stoke defenders were tiring. Clasie was decent, but remove him and Davis from the midfield and you have no bite in midfield, especially not from the boy Ward-Prowse. The changes Koeman made smacked of the desperation of the last throw of the dice in the vain hope that the new formation was so bizarre that Stoke would not be able to comprehend how to counter it and we might fluke an equaliser as a result. But harsh reality was that we could have played until midnight and not scored. Why do we have these crappy performances after an International break? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 a typical Pelle heat map [ATTACH=CONFIG]1877[/ATTACH] Hmmmmm, looking at that he seems to spend the entire match in the same half of the pitch regardless of which end we are attacking. He definitely needs to sort that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Its hard to improve your finish despite improving your squad? ...wait, what? Look, as I say. All I did was politely ask people to temper their expectations a little, stay off Koeman's back and just keep a level head this season. All I got was a load of verbal and personal attacks coupled with people deludedly claiming we'd finish 6th or above. And incidentally, you're wrong. People did say they'd take me up on the bet to finish with a higher position OR points tally than last season, but never stuck any money down. Anyway, my reason for doing all of that is hopefully so that we don't go into games at home to Stoke City like we're playing Stockport County back in League 1 thinking that we're completely entitled to win. We're going to finish roughly mid-table which is OK. Let's try and enjoy our games of football and keep an air of positivity about the place. Positivity doesn't come from thinking you're better than you are and being brought crashing back down to earth by the likes of Stoke. It comes from being realistic about your chances and staying enthusiastic throughout. Except every saints fan I know, bar one or two on here, is very realistic about our place in the football world I wouldn't for one minute take the odd poster on here who sees us as some sort of top six team as any sort of representation of our fan base in general. I really don't know anyone who thinks we will finish higher than last season and that's not even down to the squad but just because improving season after season is very, very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 I wouldn't worry too much, Tadic would probably have passed them. Indeed, when he was clean through in the first half he seemed like he was desperate to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 22 November, 2015 Share Posted 22 November, 2015 Hmmmmm, looking at that he seems to spend the entire match in the same half of the pitch regardless of which end we are attacking. He definitely needs to sort that out. I imagine he's being where he's been told to be. He's played under big Ron before, and Ron obviously trusted him enough to want him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkeith Posted 23 November, 2015 Share Posted 23 November, 2015 We really need another creative option on the bench, especially against teams that like to sit deep and counter. At the moment we only have Tadic who can do this, and if he is having an off day like Saturday, then that's it. It looked like Ramirez might be able to provide this, at least until January, but something else seems to have happened there and he is completely out of the picture. Mane is great, but needs a bit of space to get moving. We tried to address this we Djurcic and Elia last year, and we need to find another creative outlet for this season, or else the Watford, Palace and West Ham games will be repeats of Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicBoom Posted 23 November, 2015 Share Posted 23 November, 2015 It's always good to have a creative player in the middle of the park. We lack that number ten when the opposition drop deep. Lallana was capable of doing it, Tadic is creative but there's only so much you can do from out wide and Mane is also able to create but he does it by running in behind. Maybe Clasie will be the man once he really settles in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 23 November, 2015 Share Posted 23 November, 2015 Not bothered by this result at all. It's a game: - against a team in incredible form (who haven't lost away for a while) - where we went behind 1-0 and stoke notoriously difficult to break down - that was referreed by Lee Mason - which comes after an 8 game unbeaten run. Get over it. Not the end of the world, sometimes it just won't work out for us and we aren't very good. had we not been so poor at the start of the season, partly due to juggling european games for the first time in a while, and also not having a settled team yet, we'd be a lot higher in the table. I'd still pick a team of standard back 5, tadic, pelle, mane, clasie, wanyama, davis as our strongest 11 even given the individual performances on saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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