Juanmi Unsettled?

[Pancake]

I personally think he should be given game time, rather than playing England's next back passer.

 

Which one of our strikers are you referring to? Must be JRod. That's weird as I can't recall him passing backwards.

 

Odd.

[saint1977]

Didn't cost enough and Koeman probably didn't want him in the first place anyway. Probably wanted another dutch league goleador, keeping Elia or something similar but we didn't want to spend enough to get them.

 

Yep, that's pretty much it. With J Rod struggling to regain full match sharpness it's bitten us on the backside and games like tonight are where quality impact players come into their own.

[SuperSAINT]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/southampton-ready-accept-juanmi-transfer-7750216?

[Pass the Dutchie]

It feels like he never got a fair chance, but I suppose he didn't impress during training either.

[Shance]

If ever there was a player completely not suited to the PL then Juanmi is it. Good luck to him in the future but I'll be glad to see the back of him.

[Badger]

If ever there was a player completely not suited to the PL then Juanmi is it. Good luck to him in the future but I'll be glad to see the back of him.

 

Several players of his stature have made it, and you don't get into the Spanish squad without having something about you. As someone said not really given a run to show what he's capable of, but then again he obviously hasn't convinced RK he can be relied upon to have that chance.

 

Have to question whose choice he was really.

 

If we do release him hope its with a hefty sell on clause in case he realises his potential elsewhere.

[saint-crinny]

If we end up in the Europa, he's probably worth keeping around if he's happy to do that (which it sounds like he possibly isn't) - will be useful especially if we actually make the group stages

[Batman]

If we end up in the Europa, he's probably worth keeping around if he's happy to do that (which it sounds like he possibly isn't) - will be useful especially if we actually make the group stages

 

why would he, the games do not get any easier?

[saint-crinny]

why would he, the games do not get any easier?

 

Squad will be stretched by the number of games, he might suit the European games more than in England, he's clearly got some talent or esle he wouldnt be getting a Spanish cap at the moment, a season under his belt with us - if he wants to stay he'll hopefully be more acclamtised to our style, England in general.

 

A few reasons why he might be useful there and as he was a cheap investment, relatively speaking, i'd be happy to give him another year and see what he can do.

[Shance]

Several players of his stature have made it, and you don't get into the Spanish squad without having something about you. As someone said not really given a run to show what he's capable of, but then again he obviously hasn't convinced RK he can be relied upon to have that chance.

 

Have to question whose choice he was really.

 

If we do release him hope its with a hefty sell on clause in case he realises his potential elsewhere.

 

It's nothing to do with his stature. Paul Scholes is 5' 6" and is still to this day one of the best English midfielders I've ever seen.

 

Juanmi just isn't suited to the fast paced, tough tackling nature of this league. imo

[VectisSaint]

Have to question whose choice he was really.

Clearly must have been selected by Cortese, no-one else is capable of making such mistakes. Part of his legacy no doubt.

[SonicBoom]

Surely he was another warm body to fill the squad for our European adventure. Martina was another.

This all backfired on us when we went out early and we were left with players we didn't really need.

[Pass the Dutchie]

Surely he was another warm body to fill the squad for our European adventure. Martina was another.

This all backfired on us when we went out early and we were left with players we didn't really need.

 

Although Martina is playing more and more, and doing a better job every game.

[david in sweden]

Difficult to put him into any category, but he must have looked promising in Spain, but the transition to the Prem. can be hard - even for players better than Juanmi.

I hoped he might " do something " with his sub.apps..maybe an assist, or dare I say it ..score a goal:rolleyes:, but many times I hardly noticed when he was on the pitch.

 

He can go down as... another Mayuka ?. (I can't say Gaston because at least he's scoring goals - even if it is for another club). You win some - lose some.

 

£5 million - (was it £ or Euros?) is no small sum, but fortunately it's not a bank-breaking deal into today's transfer market, so just put it down to bad luck.

 

Best to let the lad go and try to re-make his career in Spain, and that we let McQueen / Seager / Gallagher types have some time on the bench instead.

[scotty]

Although Martina is playing more and more, and doing a better job every game.

 

That's my view of it.

[Saint Charlie]

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/southampton-player-agrees-personal-terms-with-la-liga-side

 

Looks like we will make a loss on Juanmi.

 

In the few times we have seen him it is hard to imagine our recruitment team could ever have imagined him being up to the physical demands of the PL.

 

Hopefully a lesson learned.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/southampton-player-agrees-personal-terms-with-la-liga-side

 

Looks like we will make a loss on Juanmi.

 

In the few times we have seen him it is hard to imagine our recruitment team could ever have imagined him being up to the physical demands of the PL.

 

Hopefully a lesson learned.

 

Worth the gamble I reckon

[doddisalegend]

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/southampton-player-agrees-personal-terms-with-la-liga-side

 

Looks like we will make a loss on Juanmi.

 

In the few times we have seen him it is hard to imagine our recruitment team could ever have imagined him being up to the physical demands of the PL.

 

Hopefully a lesson learned.

 

Nah worth a gamble at the low price we paid. It's these sort of players the club need to gamble on occasionally to find a hidden gem some won't come good but some will and we'll benefit. I'm not suggesting our whole recruitment is based on cheap gambles but if the club picks up say one cheap player with potential, every season or two, I don't see the problem.

[VectisSaint]

Nah worth a gamble at the low price we paid. It's these sort of players the club need to gamble on occasionally to find a hidden gem some won't come good but some will and we'll benefit. I'm not suggesting our whole recruitment is based on cheap gambles but if the club picks up say one cheap player with potential, every season or two, I don't see the problem.

Seriously doubt we paid 7m euros for him up front (unless his contract is on Twitter like Cedric's). If we can get something for him, then suspect we won't actually have made much of a loss, and in accountancy terms probably no loss at all, since we have had him for one year of his (three?) year contract. No great loss, never looked like being up to it, sure we can do better.

[shurlock]

When was the last time a cheap gamble on a foreign player paid off for us? Not saying it's a bad idea. Hopefully wee Ross has some pleasant surprises up his sleeve this summer...

[JxgrSaint]

When was the last time a cheap gamble on a foreign player paid off for us? Not saying it's a bad idea. Hopefully wee Ross has some pleasant surprises up his sleeve this summer...

 

Martina for £1m?

[FloridaMarlin]

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/southampton-player-agrees-personal-terms-with-la-liga-side

 

Looks like we will make a loss on Juanmi.

 

In the few times we have seen him it is hard to imagine our recruitment team could ever have imagined him being up to the physical demands of the PL.

 

Hopefully a lesson learned.

 

It's an interesting debate about the physicality of the Premier League.

 

Many moons ago, the perception was that Johnny Foreigner was not suited for English football as it was too physical (apart from Germans and Scandinavians).

 

I clearly remember an older generation of manager (no names, you can pick your own) saying they would not trust foreign players, who were brilliant at the start of the season on lush pitches and in warm autumn weather, but wouldn't be able to cut it in the ankle-deep mud of December, January and February.

 

Of course, the wise owls pointed to the physicality of the Premier League, and English football in general, that held us back in tournaments as skill and technique as possessed by foreign players was far more important.

 

Once big TV money began to drift into the domestic game, English clubs signed foreign players, and we are sold the line that foreign players have improved the PL, and made it the best in the world, possibly at the expense of the England team as young English players can't get a look-in past the imported players.

 

The myth that foreign players can't cut it in winter has been exploded, largely by the vast improvement in the state of pitches, which means they are no longer confronted by Somme-like conditions in winter.

 

However, the Best League in the World (self-styled) consistently fails to win the Champions League and only Scousehampton have prevented a clean sweep of Spanish clubs in both UEFA finals..

 

So why is the Spanish League so good? I think it's something of a myth to say that European leagues and teams are not physical. Most of them play the game at as high a tempo as the Premier League and when they play PL teams, they are certainly not out-muscled or out-run.

 

I know the argument might be that PL clubs play 38 hard, tough matches every season, while the Spanish giants only face tough games when they face each other as the other teams in the league are weak. And the laws of the game are now more suited to letting skilful players flourish at the expense of the hard men and cloggers who were around 20 years ago.

 

And what is physicality, exactly? Even the smaller players in the PL - Coutinho, Mahrez, Aguero - are pretty bulked up and muscular.

 

English players are conspicuous by their absence from the top foreign teams (apart from Gareth Bale).

 

A large factor in that, of course, is the sheer financial muscle English clubs have thanks to TV money, but even those foreign giants who could afford to pay the sort of wages that might tempt English players, aren't exactly falling over themselves to sign them.

[shurlock]

Martina for £1m?

 

Not a bad shout, though arguably a case of a player exceeding extremely low expectations rather than showing any real upside. Thought first half Sunday exposed some of his limitations and the need to strengthen RB over the summer; still he's a useful squad member and at £1m he represents decent value.

[Super_Uwe]

I wonder if it's more of a personal issue for him settling in Southampton. We all expect foreign players to come and play in the Premier League and show their abilities right from day one.

 

I have lived in France and Germany before, and it does take a while to get used to things, not least the local language and culture. The good thing about Saints is that there are so many different nationalities, but that doesn't change the fact he's still a young guy; maybe he just wasn't ready to move yet?

 

He obviously has good pedigree (you don't get picked to be a full Spanish international by chance), but maybe a move will be best for all.

[Trout-Tickler]

When was the last time a cheap gamble on a foreign player paid off for us? Not saying it's a bad idea. Hopefully wee Ross has some pleasant surprises up his sleeve this summer...

 

Pahars? Can't remember the exact fee though...

[shurlock]

It's an interesting debate about the physicality of the Premier League.

 

Many moons ago, the perception was that Johnny Foreigner was not suited for English football as it was too physical (apart from Germans and Scandinavians).

 

I clearly remember an older generation of manager (no names, you can pick your own) saying they would not trust foreign players, who were brilliant at the start of the season on lush pitches and in warm autumn weather, but wouldn't be able to cut it in the ankle-deep mud of December, January and February.

 

Of course, the wise owls pointed to the physicality of the Premier League, and English football in general, that held us back in tournaments as skill and technique as possessed by foreign players was far more important.

 

Once big TV money began to drift into the domestic game, English clubs signed foreign players, and we are sold the line that foreign players have improved the PL, and made it the best in the world, possibly at the expense of the England team as young English players can't get a look-in past the imported players.

 

The myth that foreign players can't cut it in winter has been exploded, largely by the vast improvement in the state of pitches, which means they are no longer confronted by Somme-like conditions in winter.

 

However, the Best League in the World (self-styled) consistently fails to win the Champions League and only Scousehampton have prevented a clean sweep of Spanish clubs in both UEFA finals..

 

So why is the Spanish League so good? I think it's something of a myth to say that European leagues and teams are not physical. Most of them play the game at as high a tempo as the Premier League and when they play PL teams, they are certainly not out-muscled or out-run.

 

I know the argument might be that PL clubs play 38 hard, tough matches every season, while the Spanish giants only face tough games when they face each other as the other teams in the league are weak. And the laws of the game are now more suited to letting skilful players flourish at the expense of the hard men and cloggers who were around 20 years ago.

 

And what is physicality, exactly? Even the smaller players in the PL - Coutinho, Mahrez, Aguero - are pretty bulked up and muscular.

 

English players are conspicuous by their absence from the top foreign teams (apart from Gareth Bale).

 

A large factor in that, of course, is the sheer financial muscle English clubs have thanks to TV money, but even those foreign giants who could afford to pay the sort of wages that might tempt English players, aren't exactly falling over themselves to sign them.

 

Germany has the best national side in the world - how many of it's players play in Spain? Kroos and that's about it. Home bias rather than quality appears to be the main reason players don't move: provided the domestic league is competitive enough, domestic players generally prefer to stay at home.

[doddisalegend]

Not a bad shout, though arguably a case of a player exceeding extremely low expectations rather than showing any real upside. Thought first half Sunday exposed some of his limitations and the need to strengthen RB over the summer; still he's a useful squad member and at £1m he represents decent value.

 

I think physically he has got the right attributes (Strong, pacey, can play a pass) but his positioning and reading of the game are under par still at least those things can be coached into him you can't coach Juanmi to be bigger. But yeah we need another RB.

[Saint Charlie]

But yeah we need another RB.

 

We do. So considering we brought in two last summer that suggests something hasn't quite worked out as planned, i.e we didn't replace Clyne especially well at all given the amount of time we had to plan for his departure.

 

Each of Cedric, Clasie and Juanmi have really struggled (to varying degrees) with the physical elements needed to be a PL success.

 

I hope Wilson has learned that.

[doddisalegend]

We do. So considering we brought in two last summer that suggests something hasn't quite worked out as planned, i.e we didn't replace Clyne especially well at all given the amount of time we had to plan for his departure.

 

Each of Cedric, Clasie and Juanmi have really struggled (to varying degrees) with the physical elements needed to be a PL success.

 

I hope Wilson has learned that.

 

Do you expect a 100% success rate on player transfers then? Player transfers are always something of a lottery but the club has in general done very well at it in recent seasons. I imagine you could find a transfer or two every season, since the new owners arrived, that hasn't worked out but as long as we are getting more right than wrong and continue to improve (as we have done every season) I think you need to give the club a bit more credit.

[david in sweden]

Pahars? Can't remember the exact fee though...

 

around £800K ?....at a time when the club record was perhaps something like £2 million ?......

 

In terms of value....quite outstanding... considering the sums we paid out for some layabouts afterwards.

[VectisSaint]

The myth that foreign players can't cut it in winter has been exploded, largely by the vast improvement in the state of pitches, which means they are no longer confronted by Somme-like conditions in winter.

Has it? We seem to still have one, might not be down to the pitches, but the cold weather and rain playing havoc with his coiffure.

[Junior Mullet]

That David Silva bloke has done alright for someone not really suited to the tough tackling nature of the English game. The odd injury aside of course.

[Saint Charlie]

Done deal and could be official early next week.

 

Bought for €7m and sold for €4m.

 

Ross Wilson's first official transfer as Head of Recruitment leaves with zero PL starts and at a €3m loss. Ouch.

[MAY-Z]

Done deal and could be official early next week.

 

Bought for €7m and sold for €4m.

 

Ross Wilson's first official transfer as Head of Recruitment leaves with zero PL starts and at a €3m loss. Ouch.

 

Yet still better value than some of the previous regime

 

Osvaldo

Ramirez

Forren

Mayuka

[Whitey Grandad]

Done deal and could be official early next week.

 

Bought for €7m and sold for €4m.

 

Ross Wilson's first official transfer as Head of Recruitment leaves with zero PL starts and at a €3m loss. Ouch.

 

His value would have reduced over the length of his contract. Was the €7m the full upfront price or did it have conditions?

[doddisalegend]

Yet still better value than some of the previous regime

 

Osvaldo

Ramirez

Forren

Mayuka

 

Don't interrupt him in full flow his next point will no doubt be how amazing spurs recruitment policy has been.....

[Saint Charlie]

Don't interrupt him in full flow his next point will no doubt be how amazing spurs recruitment policy has been.....

What this Spurs thing about? In the build up to our excellebt win against them I said they are a really good team and Pochettino an excellent Manager. Still firmly believe both points (don't you?).

 

Doesn't mean I like them of course and Spurs aren't involved in anything to do with Juanmi.

 

If you are going to disagree with my point then thats cool, its what the forum is for. But make a proper criticism.

[The Cat]

There's no way we paid €7m up front for him so your point about the fees is likely to be way off.

 

We'd have seen a bit more of him if we hadn't limped out of the Europa League before it was even a League.

[doddisalegend]

What this Spurs thing about? In the build up to our excellebt win against them I said they are a really good team and Pochettino an excellent Manager. Still firmly believe both points (don't you?).

 

Doesn't mean I like them of course and Spurs aren't involved in anything to do with Juanmi.

 

If you are going to disagree with my point then thats cool, its what the forum is for. But make a proper criticism.

 

 

You've been waving the flag for spurs all season long....

 

Anyway I made my point about transfers further up but you chose to ignore that one

[Saint Charlie]

You've been waving the flag for spurs all season long....

 

Anyway I made my point about transfers further up but you chose to ignore that one

Of course we generally get more transfers right than wrong and there is room for one or two risks at lower fees.

 

I do think though that last summer was the first for ages where we probably got more wrong than right. So hoping that was a one off and Wilson has a great summer and proves why he got the job.

 

This season, VVD aside, its our summer 2014 players and long termers who have been key in putting us where we are in the table.

Edited 11 May, 2016 by Saint Charlie

[Trout-Tickler]

His value would have reduced over the length of his contract. Was the €7m the full upfront price or did it have conditions?

 

No way we paid the full fee upfront. There's always a basic fee plus add-ons based on appearances, goals, etc that may eventually have taken the total to €7M.

[Whitey Grandad]

No way we paid the full fee upfront. There's always a basic fee plus add-ons based on appearances, goals, etc that may eventually have taken the total to €7M.

 

That's what I was thinking. We have to view the fees in conjunction with the wages and just consider what the overall cost is for each season. In some cases a player's value will increase during his time with us and we may get a higher fee than we paid, or more specifically higher than his book value. In most cases though it's just a matter of spreading the cost over their term of employment with us.

[Saint Charlie]

No way we paid the full fee upfront. There's always a basic fee plus add-ons based on appearances, goals, etc that may eventually have taken the total to €7M.

Likewise no way RS will be paying their fee up front.

[doddisalegend]

Of course we generally get more transfers right than wrong and there is room for one or two risks at lower fees.

 

I do think though that last summer was the first for ages where we probably got more wrong than right. So hoping that was a one off and Wilson has a great summer and proves why he got the job.

 

This season, VVD aside, its our summer 2014 players and long termers who have been key in putting us where we are in the table.

 

Last summers transfers were, in part at least, shaped by the Toby Alderweireld saga IMO. I'm pretty supportive of the clubs transfer policy but someone dropped a big bollick on that one (the head of the legal team stepping down days after speaks volumes). The need for defensive reinforcements became key, something the club clearly hadn't anticipated, hence the loan for Caulker and the short term cheap deal for Martina while the club desperately tried to get VVD signed up.

 

Else where Koeman clearly wanted Clasie who hasn't been a good enough replacement for Morgan (then again Morgan is no longer good enough to replace himself*) but he was unlucky with early injuries. I've still seen enough from him to think there is a good player there but next season is most defiantly make or break for him.

 

Romeu is IMO an excellent signing. He was a bit of a yellow card magnet early doors but I think he was desperate to impress. I'm surprised he hasn't featured more this season but I think we will see a lot of him next season which I'm quite happy about.

 

I had high hopes for Cedric good going forward, good crosser not great defensively which is a bit of a paradox considering he has some of the best tackling stats in the PL this season. For what ever reason though Koeman doesn't seem to rate him so we need a new RB if he can't improve Cedric.

 

Martina has been a good signing IMO cheap as chips and better than expected decent back up for next season (which in reality was what he was signed for)

 

The jury's still out on Austin. If we can get him fit I have high hopes but I half expect we bought him more with an eye on replacing Pelle next season than expecting big things from him this season (knowing he wasn't fit when we bought him).

 

Juanmi was I suspect a cheap punt on a player with potential that hasn't worked out.

 

So leaving Caulker out the big disappointments for me are Cedric and Clasie though I 'm still holding out hope that Clasie will come good.

 

*Morgan doing an excellent example of a good player turning to crap after moving clubs and showing why transfers are a lottery. One of the best players, I've seen, in a saints shirt I'd of bet my house on Morgan being a success at Man U and pushing on internationally when he has in fact turned to dog turd in the space of one season.

[doddisalegend]

Schneiderlin hasn't turned to ****, he's just suffered from having a different midfield partner each week then being in and out the team. No coincidence their defence improved a lot when he arrived. People said Wanyama wasn't as good without Morgan but it's worked the other way too. Leicester have shown continuity and partnerships all over the pitch are way more important than big money signings. If I'd been a club like Utd rebuilding I'd have bought Morgan AND Wanyama, or neither of them.

 

Which speaks volumes when he can't get in the team ahead of Fellaini or an aging Carrick. If he was playing as well at Man U as he did here he should be the first name on the team sheet at Man U as a DM. He isn't.

[Whitey Grandad]

Schneiderlin hasn't turned to ****, he's just suffered from having a different midfield partner each week then being in and out the team. No coincidence their defence improved a lot when he arrived. People said Wanyama wasn't as good without Morgan but it's worked the other way too. Leicester have shown continuity and partnerships all over the pitch are way more important than big money signings. If I'd been a club like Utd rebuilding I'd have bought Morgan AND Wanyama, or neither of them.

 

If only to stop a rival getting their services.

[Saint Charlie]

So leaving Caulker out the big disappointments for me are Cedric and Clasie though I 'm still holding out hope that Clasie will come good

 

Agree with most of what you wrote, including the above which is unfortunate as those two players were (alongside VVD) the key ones to get right.

 

In both cases they are decent players but til now have really struggled physically with the PL. Hopefully we learn that this summer especially when replacing Wanyama.

[SuperSAINT]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3593207/Southampton-set-sell-Juanmi-Real-Sociedad-3million-loss.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

[Batman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3593207/Southampton-set-sell-Juanmi-Real-Sociedad-3million-loss.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

 

awful signing

[nta786]

I want to say 'not given enough chances' but then Koeman sees the player everyday, not me.

When he set up Long for our third goal vs Vitesse I had hopes he would come good, or at least play a part this season.

I think he was bought for Europa League purposes, and it is a shame he didn't work out.

 

I hope we continue though with some low money signings, would like to unearth another gem.