Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Lighthouse]

Oh come on, I'm losing count of the Muslim mass slaughtering of innocents. 9/11, 7/7, Madrid,

Paris, Brussels, Nice, Paris again... The idea that any other religion is comparible is just ********.

 

Yes, there seems to be a disproportionate number of attacks by Muslim. The idea that they've monopolised this is just wrong. How many American high school shootings have taken place in the last 15 years?

 

By all means kill those responsible, bomb the sh*t out of Isis with drones or whatever else but the idea that Muslims should be banned from Europe over the actions of a few individuals is just wrong.

[aintforever]

Yes, there seems to be a disproportionate number of attacks by Muslim. The idea that they've monopolised this is just wrong. How many American high school shootings have taken place in the last 15 years?

 

By all means kill those responsible, bomb the sh*t out of Isis with drones or whatever else but the idea that Muslims should be banned from Europe over the actions of a few individuals is just wrong.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting banning Muslims, I just think the issues should be discussed openly and honestly without fear of political correctness. Saying **** like its nothing to do with Islam just fuels the far right as there is clearly a link.

[Jonnyboy]

Indeed. Also consider that When you look at the number of tourists going to tunisia (post the islamic attacks) and see that they have plummeted, it doesnt correlate to the increase in tourists coming to the UK, despite the significant increase in white supremisist attacks, over the same period.

 

But the media would have us believe the UK is at a significant risk of a terrorist attack.

[Jonnyboy]

I don't think anyone is suggesting banning Muslims, I just think the issues should be discussed openly and honestly without fear of political correctness. Saying **** like its nothing to do with Islam just fuels the far right as there is clearly a link.

 

Apart from the President of the United States.

[Johnny Bognor]

But the media would have us believe the UK is at a significant risk of a terrorist attack.

Errrrrr we are.

 

Look at the number of foiled plots. Thankfully our security services are more advanced than most of Europe.

 

Logistically it is more difficult to pull off an attack here (especially with military grade weapons) and our border is far more secure (by virtue of the fact we are an island), but don't think there is no risk to the UK, as that is just plain stupid...

Edited 21 December, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[hypochondriac]

Apart from the President of the United States.

As idiotic as that comment was, he wasn't saying he Muslims should be banned. He said there should be a temporary halt until they know what is going on. It's still stupid but not quite as dumb.

[hypochondriac]

But the media would have us believe the UK is at a significant risk of a terrorist attack.

We probably are but thankfully we didn't do a Merkel so our chances are less than Germany.

[CB Fry]

But the media would have us believe the UK is at a significant risk of a terrorist attack.

 

Not the media sunshine, the government and the security services. The threat level is "severe", one level down from "critical", which is the highest level.

[Jonnyboy]

We probably are but thankfully we didn't do a Merkel so our chances are less than Germany.

 

So which one was it again that Merkel shouldn't have let in, refugees, or Muslims?

[Jonnyboy]

Not the media sunshine, the government and the security services. The threat level is "severe", one level down from "critical", which is the highest level.

 

And why does that stupid grading even exist? What purpose does it serve other than to agitate the public and invite the media to whip up scare stories?

[CB Fry]

And why does that stupid grading even exist? What purpose does it serve other than to agitate the public and invite the media to whip up scare stories?

Okay, you're a bit dim then.

[buctootim]

Is the religion the cause or merely a tool being used?

 

Islamic State are called 'Islamic State' for a reason. Commit 10000 atrocities with that name and people will eventually think it's 'Islam'. Tell the same lie 10000 times and people will think it's true.

 

They don't even have to rely on immigration, with social media they can brainwash/recruit anyone with the right psychological structure/life experience anywhere. Break them down, play their anger/psychopothy like a violin, mentally separate them from the world around them and after some careful brainwashing/grooming you've got a teenager/relatively young person lacking critical thinking skills driving a truck at a large crowd of innocent people.

 

Bingo

[Sour Mash]

Yes, there seems to be a disproportionate number of attacks by Muslim. The idea that they've monopolised this is just wrong. How many American high school shootings have taken place in the last 15 years?

 

By all means kill those responsible, bomb the sh*t out of Isis with drones or whatever else but the idea that Muslims should be banned from Europe over the actions of a few individuals is just wrong.

Why not ban them? Its too late now anyway, the damage is done, but we'd have been better off if they had been banned, that's a fact.

[Jonnyboy]

I don't think anyone is suggesting banning Muslims, I just think the issues should be discussed openly and honestly without fear of political correctness. Saying **** like its nothing to do with Islam just fuels the far right as there is clearly a link.

 

Seems you're a bit dim seeing as Sour Mash has again just called for all muslamics to be banned.

[Jonnyboy]

Okay, you're a bit dim then.

 

Come on then, educate me.

[Sour Mash]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745680/Austria-Asylum-seeker-arrested-planning-Christmas-terror-attack

[Lord Duckhunter]

But the media would have us believe the UK is at a significant risk of a terrorist attack.

 

It's a miracle nothing's happened for a few years. There will be an attack killing dozens (if we're lucky)and it will be by a Muslim. It is quite remarkable the job the security services perform because the lack of an attavk is not down to lack of effort or will from these Muslims.

 

The elephant in the room is "moderate Islam ". A medieval religion where sexes are separated , their chicks walk around covered from head to toe , you cant take the mick out of their prophet, or even draw him FFS. Many of them want Sharia law, hate Jews & hate us and all we stand for. Yet they're a lot safer in our country than Christians are in theirs. It's 2017 FFS, why aren't these people condemned , why are they allowed to treat women, gays & non believers like they do?

 

Here's a simple fact lefties on here won't like. The more Muslims we let in, the more divided the country will become & the more unsafe we will be. You wouldn't let White American KKK folk in, why are people who don't want to respect our values allowed in.

Edited 20 December, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[hypochondriac]

So which one was it again that Merkel shouldn't have let in, refugees, or Muslims?

Merkel should have let refugees in. What she shouldn't have done is allowed mass uncontrolled immigration which included those dangerous Muslims that are causing many of the issues in Europe.

[TwoPints]

Well my mother in law died last year but I've often questioned my father in laws beliefs. His views on Jewish people for example are just bizarre. If you know any Arabs then you would be aware of how stubborn they are. Lovely bloke though even if some of his opinions are strange. I'm hardly going to scream at him about his religion, he is my father in law after all.

 

So you haven't challenged your wife's family on their beliefs, happy to trust that those particular muslims aren't of the same ilk as other muslims?

 

PS: Sorry to hear about your mother in law. I lost my Mum this year and know how difficult it is.

[TwoPints]

Is the religion the cause or merely a tool being used?

 

Islamic State are called 'Islamic State' for a reason. Commit 10000 atrocities with that name and people will eventually think it's 'Islam'. Tell the same lie 10000 times and people will think it's true.

 

They don't even have to rely on immigration, with social media they can brainwash/recruit anyone with the right psychological structure/life experience anywhere. Break them down, play their anger/psychopothy like a violin, mentally separate them from the world around them and after some careful brainwashing/grooming you've got a teenager/relatively young person lacking critical thinking skills driving a truck at a large crowd of innocent people.

 

This. ISIS want a war between muslims and the rest of the world and their terrorist attacks are designed to do just that. Unfortunately, there are people out there that fall for it hook line and sinker and rather than focus on fighting ISIS want to blame Islam and cause divisions in the world which is exactly what ISIS want.

[hypochondriac]

So you haven't challenged your wife's family on their beliefs, happy to trust that those particular muslims aren't of the same ilk as other muslims?

 

PS: Sorry to hear about your mother in law. I lost my Mum this year and know how difficult it is.

 

I already said earlier that there are many Muslims who have successfully integrated into British society and share most of the values that I would consider important in order to coexist with others in a western democracy. My issue is not with them. My issue is with those who have been unable to do that and who are a danger to our society and way of life. It has generally been agreed (I think) that this is a proportionally higher number than can currently be found elsewhere. I think this is a problem and there should be debates about what can be done to solve this problem that doesn't devolve into people screaming islamaphobia at each other.

 

Thank you for the sympathy. Cancer is a horrible disease.

[Batman]

And why does that stupid grading even exist? What purpose does it serve other than to agitate the public and invite the media to whip up scare stories?

 

it exists so that government and national infrastructure can set local security policies accordingly.

jesus christ

[Batman]

Why not ban them? Its too late now anyway, the damage is done, but we'd have been better off if they had been banned, that's a fact.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

 

very long list

 

as said many times here, a friend works for the security services and the snippets he does tell me are frightening regarding security in the UK....and ALL from one group of people who follow the same so called (demented) religion

Edited 21 December, 2016 by Batman

[Batman]

It's a miracle nothing's happened for a few years. There will be an attack killing dozens (if we're lucky)and it will be by a Muslim. It is quite remarkable the job the security services perform because the lack of an attavk is not down to lack of effort or will from these Muslims.

 

The elephant in the room is "moderate Islam ". A medieval religion where sexes are separated , their chicks walk around covered from head to toe , you cant take the mick out of their prophet, or even draw him FFS. Many of them want Sharia law, hate Jews & hate us and all we stand for. Yet they're a lot safer in our country than Christians are in theirs. It's 2017 FFS, why aren't these people condemned , why are they allowed to treat women, gays & non believers like they do?

 

Here's a simple fact lefties on here won't like. The more Muslims we let in, the more divided the country will become & the more unsafe we will be. You wouldn't let White American KKK folk in, why are people who don't want to respect our values allowed in.

 

and no one will talk about this without being called a racist

[1885]

It's a miracle nothing's happened for a few years. There will be an attack killing dozens (if we're lucky)and it will be by a Muslim. It is quite remarkable the job the security services perform because the lack of an attavk is not down to lack of effort or will from these Muslims.

 

The elephant in the room is "moderate Islam ". A medieval religion where sexes are separated , their chicks walk around covered from head to toe , you cant take the mick out of their prophet, or even draw him FFS. Many of them want Sharia law, hate Jews & hate us and all we stand for. Yet they're a lot safer in our country than Christians are in theirs. It's 2017 FFS, why aren't these people condemned , why are they allowed to treat women, gays & non believers like they do?

 

Here's a simple fact lefties on here won't like. The more Muslims we let in, the more divided the country will become & the more unsafe we will be. You wouldn't let White American KKK folk in, why are people who don't want to respect our values allowed in.

 

The points is, that not all muslims are equal minded, just like we western Europeans aren't.

 

I think it is just wrong to claim Europe will be more unsafe, as you simply do not accept that the vast majority just wants to live peacefully, just as you and I do.

There are idiots in every part of society, so surely amongst them, too.

But does that give us the right to blame all of them ?

 

"It's 2017 FFS, why aren't these people condemned , why are they allowed to treat women, gays & non believers like they do? "

 

Really can't see that happening.

What happens to an European openly claiming not to like or even hate gays ?

It's a voiced opinion, although I won't go with it.

If they break the law, send them to court.

Simple as that. Same as with you and me.

 

I didn't mention specific attacks. Those you mention are however members of the same ideological group that are committing these atrocities.

 

Just wanted to pint out that shooting immigrants to Mars or whatever your idea is of how to deal with them won't change a thing.

[Johnny Bognor]

At least 10 plots foiled, with 294 convictions for terrorist offences in the last two years...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/28/britain-foiled-terror-attacks-plots-police-counter-terrorism-security-services

 

294 convictions! Let that sink in for a minute. You only need a handful of them to slip through the net and you have a massacre on your hands.

[Jonnyboy]

it exists so that government and national infrastructure can set local security policies accordingly.

jesus christ

 

So the security services just have a lie-in when it's not at the highest level?

[Johnny Bognor]

So the security services just have a lie-in when it's not at the highest level?

 

Isn't that like most public services when they're not at capacity???

[hypochondriac]

The points is, that not all muslims are equal minded, just like we western Europeans aren't.

 

I think it is just wrong to claim Europe will be more unsafe, as you simply do not accept that the vast majority just wants to live peacefully, just as you and I do.

There are idiots in every part of society, so surely amongst them, too.

But does that give us the right to blame all of them ?

 

"It's 2017 FFS, why aren't these people condemned , why are they allowed to treat women, gays & non believers like they do? "

 

Really can't see that happening.

What happens to an European openly claiming not to like or even hate gays ?

It's a voiced opinion, although I won't go with it.

If they break the law, send them to court.

Simple as that. Same as with you and me.

 

 

 

Just wanted to pint out that shooting immigrants to Mars or whatever your idea is of how to deal with them won't change a thing.

Why would you make up some silly thing like that? I already said what the sensible thing would have been from Merkel. She advertised the fact that Germany was open to all and they flooded in. Lunacy.

[Johnny Bognor]

Why would you make up some silly thing like that? I already said what the sensible thing would have been from Merkel. She advertised the fact that Germany was open to all and they flooded in. Lunacy.

 

The removal of border checks has also added to the problem. As already pointed out, the perpetrators of the Paris attacks were "EU Citizens", however they freely moved between Belgium and France. Border controls/checks may have prevented this.

[Batman]

what a stroke of luck. after 2 days, the authorities have now found the chaps Wallet....under the driver's seat.

Edited 21 December, 2016 by Batman

[Johnny Bognor]

what a stroke of luck. after 2 days, the authorities have no found the chaps Wallet....under the driver's seat.

 

They were probably busy, looking for white supremecist terrorists, because they pose a bigger threat...

[Lord Duckhunter]

The points is, that not all muslims are equal minded, just like we western Europeans aren't.

 

The mainstream moderate Western Europeans are totally different from mainstream moderate Muslims. If a Western European had the views of moderate Muslims, they would be called an extremist. You only have to look at pictures of labour politicians addressing segregated Muslim audiences, to see exactly what I'm talking about.

[Sour Mash]

The points is, that not all muslims are equal minded, just like we western Europeans aren't.

 

I think it is just wrong to claim Europe will be more unsafe, as you simply do not accept that the vast majority just wants to live peacefully, just as you and I do.

There are idiots in every part of society, so surely amongst them, too.

But does that give us the right to blame all of them ?

 

"It's 2017 FFS, why aren't these people condemned , why are they allowed to treat women, gays & non believers like they do? "

 

Really can't see that happening.

What happens to an European openly claiming not to like or even hate gays ?

It's a voiced opinion, although I won't go with it.

If they break the law, send them to court.

Simple as that. Same as with you and me.

 

 

 

Just wanted to pint out that shooting immigrants to Mars or whatever your idea is of how to deal with them won't change a thing.

Why are you so keen to see the spread of a culture across western Europe that has brought about such an increase in terrorism?

[buctootim]

The mainstream moderate Western Europeans are totally different from mainstream moderate Muslims. If a Western European had the views of moderate Muslims, they would be called an extremist. You only have to look at pictures of labour politicians addressing segregated Muslim audiences, to see exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Some kind of separatism or apartheid you mean? like those nice Western European Protestant folks did in the American south and South Africa till recently.

 

I flew back New York last week. When I got to my row an orthodox Jew was sitting in the aisle seat and his wife in the middle, mine was the window. He was fat and would have been more comfortable in the aisle but made his wife swap seats so she wouldnt have to sit next to a man. There were muslims in the row in front, the wife was sat in the middle next to a white guy.

 

Terrorism has no more to do with core Islam than various rebel miltias in Africa like the Lords Resistance Army have anything to do with core Christianity. Educated, professional Muslims who were born in this country are far more similar to the UK 'Christian' middle class than they are to Bangladeshi village born labourers who have three years of school at a Salafist madrassa funded by Saudi Arabia.

 

The problem is we import too many uneducated, unskilled, non English speaking immigrants from very closed and dogmatic cultural backgrounds - not that Islam is inherently violent.

Edited 21 December, 2016 by buctootim

[benjii]

In an attempt to steer the conversation away from

 

- "it's the Muslims"

- "it's not all the Muslims"

- "but they are the worst!"

- "but it's not because they're Muslims, it's because they're just a bit backward...."

- "but that's the West's fault"

- "and the West used to be backwards too, you know!"....

 

Zzz........

 

 

Here's a different but relevant topic: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/dec/21/eus-highest-court-delivers-blow-to-uk-snoopers-charter

[moonraker]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

 

very long list

 

as said many times here, a friend works for the security services and the snippets he does tell me are frightening regarding security in the UK....and ALL from one group of people who follow the same so called (demented) religion

 

If he is telling you stuff about national security he isbreaking the law, are you OK with that?

[buctootim]

Zzz........

 

 

If it aint simple to understand it bores you. Yeah we know.

[moonraker]

To those that think stopping immigration will solve the Islamic terrorist problem you are either naïve, simple or easily taken in by right wing semi fascist propaganda. As has been repeatedly pointed out the majority of terrorist atrocities in the west are undertaken by Western European citizens. The tired default of blaming left wing apologists and soft lily livered liberals for not addressing terrorism is pathetic. No religion, ideology or political movement has the exclusive rights to terrorism. For 30 years the UK suffered from Christian terrorism (over 3,500 deaths), the terrorist Anders Brevik and Jo Cox’s murderer were neo-Nazi white supremacists, indeed Islamic fundamentalism is not the main driver of terrorism in Western countries: 80% of attacks in the last 10 years were by political extremists, nationalists, racial and other religious supremacists. Today the odious Nigel Farage has laid into Jo Cox’s husband for supporting ‘Hope not Hate’ with Farage claiming it as an extremist organisation, he really has lost the plot. It is people like Farage and his political bedfellows who do far more to create the intolerance, tension, suspicion and fear that more than anything creates the conditions that divides us and drives a miniscule minority to execute abhorrent acts in the name of extremism in all its forms.

[benjii]

If it aint simple to understand it bores you. Yeah we know.

 

Wow, how cutting.

 

What is boring is a slightly modified version of the same half-a-dozen posts being repeated by the same half-a-dozen individuals. It would be boring regardless of content and regardless of complexity.

 

The question of the limits of government surveillance - the compromise between freedom from intrusion and protection from terrorism - is much more interesting than most of the half-baked posts on here. If you want to keep on with that well-trodden path though, then fill your boots. I was just trying to move things on a bit.

[buctootim]

Wow, how cutting.

 

What is boring is a slightly modified version of the same half-a-dozen posts being repeated by the same half-a-dozen individuals. It would be boring regardless of content and regardless of complexity.

 

The question of the limits of government surveillance - the compromise between freedom from intrusion and protection from terrorism - is much more interesting than most of the half-baked posts on here. If you want to keep on with that well-trodden path though, then fill your boots. I was just trying to move things on a bit.

 

Fair enough. I agree its a dull circular argument with entrenched, well worn positions. I'd rather discuss the complexities of resolving the situation than lumping everybody with the same religion into the blame pot.

 

Re surveillance. I used to find it more threatening and intrusive than I do know - something along the lines of "well it might be acceptable with the current government but what if we got a an authoritarian government - how would they misuse the information". Now I think we have given away so much personal information to social media and companies it doesn't actually matter any more. Personal confidentiality is pretty much dead. Part of my job is to do due diligence on peoples backgrounds. I can find out where people live, who they work for, income, friends, interests, pictures of their kids etc within 30 minutes without leaving my office. You might as well use the information for public good as use it for posting selfies or selling shampoo.

[Guided Missile]

I have to say, the claimed increase in "hate crimes" laid at the door of those voting Brexit, pales into insignificance in comparison with the increase in "hate crimes" laid at the door of those supporting the EU immigration policy.

[Johnny Bognor]

For 30 years the UK suffered from Christian terrorism (over 3,500 deaths), the terrorist Anders Brevik and Jo Cox’s murderer were neo-Nazi white supremacists,

 

I didn't realise Anders Brevik was in the UK...

 

indeed Islamic fundamentalism is not the main driver of terrorism in Western countries: 80% of attacks in the last 10 years were by political extremists, nationalists, racial and other religious supremacists.

 

 

Hmm, slightly misleading.. a bit of perspective for you...

 

There have been 35 terrorist attacks in the EU since July 2010. 30 were attributable to Islamist extremists. Of the remaining 5, one was a left wing group, one was the mafia and three were neo-fascists (one of which was Brevic).

 

So in the last 5 years, 85% of terrorist attacks in the EU have been attributable to Islamist Fanatics!!! These are simple facts that cannot be disputed and show that there clearly is an issue in Europe.

 

If we look at body counts, there have been 318 people murdered by the Islamists in Europe over the last 5 years (79% of fatalities). 81 were murdered by the rest (77 of these down to Brevik alone). So aside of Brevik, only 4 people have been killed in the whole of Europe in the last 5 years.

 

With these clear numbers, no one can deny that there is a problem.

Edited 21 December, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Batman]

If he is telling you stuff about national security he isbreaking the law, are you OK with that?

 

He has worked there for years, I think he knows what he can and cant say

[1885]

They were probably busy, looking for white supremecist terrorists, because they pose a bigger threat...

 

Highly doubt that, as those usually walk free here.

[Johnny Bognor]

Highly doubt that, as those usually walk free here.

 

Maybe they were busy looking for the multiple ultra-left wing terrorist groups that have plagued Europe?

[Batman]

mass fatality attacks have spiked severely in recent years. Guess in the name of what religion?

[Jonnyboy]

I didn't realise Anders Brevik was in the UK...

 

 

 

 

Hmm, slightly misleading.. a bit of perspective for you...

 

There have been 35 terrorist attacks in the EU since July 2010. 30 were attributable to Islamist extremists. Of the remaining 5, one was a left wing group, one was the mafia and three were neo-fascists (one of which was Brevic).

 

So in the last 5 years, 85% of terrorist attacks in the EU have been attributable to Islamist Fanatics!!! These are simple facts that cannot be disputed and show that there clearly is an issue in Europe.

 

If we look at body counts, there have been 318 people murdered by the Islamists in Europe over the last 5 years (79% of fatalities). 81 were murdered by the rest (77 of these down to Brevik alone). So aside of Brevik, only 4 people have been killed in the whole of Europe in the last 5 years.

 

With these clear numbers, no one can deny that there is a problem.

 

And how many people have died in Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc?

Makes our problems rather pale into insignificance.

[ScepticalStan]

I flew back New York last week. When I got to my row an orthodox Jew was sitting in the aisle seat and his wife in the middle, mine was the window. He was fat and would have been more comfortable in the aisle but made his wife swap seats so she wouldnt have to sit next to a man. There were muslims in the row in front, the wife was sat in the middle next to a white guy.

 

This sort of thing certainly does happen but I'm very, very confident you've simply made this little anecdote up

[Johnny Bognor]

And how many people have died in Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc?

Makes our problems rather pale into insignificance.

I don't disagree with that at all.

 

Just pointing out, that in recent times (5-10 years), Islamic terrorism is far more prevalent than any other form of terrorism. To deliberately deflect that, is being an apologist.

 

Now back to your point. It is very relevant and provides the main reason for the rise in Islamic terrorism. Our illegal war in Iraq didn't help. The handling of Libya was nothing short of disgraceful. As it happens, parliament voted down air strikes in Syria, so maybe we've learnt our lesson.

 

I for one, initially thought that the Arab spring was a good thing. Bringing freedom to the people of the middle east. What a cluster **** that tuned out to be.

 

One solution would be to stop sucking up to the Saudis. Maybe our waning reliance on oil will lead to less interference. We will all be driving electric cars within 10 years.