Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Pancake]

Western Europe made a mistake letting in Islam in such a scale, it's stuck with the problem now.

 

What? So this earth we all live on should have little segregated areas for people of different religions? So that would leave Europe with a handful of practising pagans, yeah?

 

You realise Europe "let" Christianity "in" as well?

[doddisalegend]

and so it begins

 

Woman arrested after 'no Muslims' beauty salon Facebook post

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-34831227

[Sour Mash]

What? So this earth we all live on should have little segregated areas for people of different religions? So that would leave Europe with a handful of practising pagans, yeah?

 

You realise Europe "let" Christianity "in" as well?

We shouldn't have allowed mass immigration of a backward culture that produces significant amounts of terrorism. It's not a difficult point is it.

[buctootim]

and so it begins

 

Woman arrested after 'no Muslims' beauty salon Facebook post

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-34831227

 

Its an ignorant post but doesn't justify arrest.

[doddisalegend]

do you even know what the 4 pillars that the security services wrok for?

 

attending a demo in london in the name of student cuts is not it

 

Missing the point as usual. Once you've given the government the sort of draconian powers you'd like to see they can't be taken back. Right now, through fear and anger, those powers might look like a good idea but you will have no control over how future governments will use those powers...you are happy to see those powers given to government because you can not envisage a time when they could be used against you yet history is full of examples of countries that sleep walked their way into a police state.

[Pancake]

We shouldn't have allowed mass immigration of a backward culture that produces significant amounts of terrorism. It's not a difficult point is it.

 

Backwards culture? Quality.

 

I did type out a long diatribe around the basis for the backwards view, but then deleted it as I can't top that.

[Batman]

Missing the point as usual. Once you've given the government the sort of draconian powers you'd like to see they can't be taken back. Right now, through fear and anger, those powers might look like a good idea but you will have no control over how future governments will use those powers...you are happy to see those powers given to government because you can not envisage a time when they could be used against you yet history is full of examples of countries that sleep walked their way into a police state.

 

im not missing the point. the government only want these powers because the security services are asking for it.

I could not care less if some spiv in downing street (as you see it) could see that I went on saintsweb, or bought a t-shirt on amazon or used google. I really could not care less. If that gave me a better chance of not being blown up or murdered for being in the western world, then my 'couldnt care less' turns into, 'hell, yes please'

 

as said, the people who work at these places who want these powers simply do not have the time, money, resources, capbility, will, drive, etc to even bother being nosy on completely innocent people

they want these powers to do their job and keep you safe. Not to match google and amazon in the snoop stakes

[buctootim]

Missing the point as usual. Once you've given the government the sort of draconian powers you'd like to see they can't be taken back. Right now, through fear and anger, those powers might look like a good idea but you will have no control over how future governments will use those powers...you are happy to see those powers given to government because you can not envisage a time when they could be used against you yet history is full of examples of countries that sleep walked their way into a police state.

 

I was genuinely shocked to read the intelligence services already employ 10,000 people and the Government is going to give them another 1,800. You have to question whether we are all so paranoid about security that we are prepared to give up essential liberty . I know that sounds a bit St George but there is a difference.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Backwards culture? Quality.

 

I did type out a long diatribe around the basis for the backwards view, but then deleted it as I can't top that.

 

I would say that mainstream Muslim views on women and gays is pretty backward , and the loony fringe of the religion ,medieval .

[hypochondriac]

What? So this earth we all live on should have little segregated areas for people of different religions? So that would leave Europe with a handful of practising pagans, yeah?

 

You realise Europe "let" Christianity "in" as well?

 

I don't really agree with sour mash but you don't have the same scale of problem from people acting in the name of Christianity.

Edited 16 November, 2015 by hypochondriac

[Sour Mash]

Farage called it early on as usual http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34197707

[Pancake]

I would say that mainstream Muslim views on women and gays is pretty backward , and the loony fringe of the religion ,medieval .

 

Yep. As is the Christian view on homosexuality. And no doubt many other cultural groups have abhorrent views on certain things, but to label an entire religion as "backwards" as a result kind of speaks for itself really.

[Orange]

Utterly depressing looking to the future. France have over 2,000 Muslims fighting for ISIS, and that's before you even get on to accumulated amount if you count British, Belgium, Dutch, German etc Muslims fighting out there too. In only takes a tiny % of them to come back mad (if they weren't already) and intent on waging a war in Europe for them to cause utter havoc.

 

How have we allowed this to happen? We have allowed, and some on the left have promoted the creation of a society where we have ghettoised separate/divided cultures living apart. And now we have an enemy from within thanks to this, who hold no loyalty or affiliation to Britain/France or wherever. I'm not for a minute saying that's all Muslims, but it only needs a small amount. It's exactly what Enoch Powell warned about- he'd served out in India and had seen what ethnic/cultural division within society looked like, and he feared the same would happen in the UK if we were to have immigration on such a scale where we do not attempt to integrate people into British society sufficiently.

 

In my experiences the ghettoisation/division in France is even worse than here in the UK. Go to somewhere like Marseille or the suburbs of Paris and you can see how we're in this position. Social tensions in France were already f*cking awful before this, dread to think what they're going to be like now. Got a friend in the French police force and he was telling me this last summer how the whole thing has been a ticking time bomb.

[Sour Mash]

Yep. As is the Christian view on homosexuality. And no doubt many other cultural groups have abhorrent views on certain things, but to label an entire religion as "backwards" as a result kind of speaks for itself really.

It's a backward, medieval culture. Most of the developed world don't even believe in religion anymore thankfully.

 

Why don't you tell us all about the modern, forward thinking, progressive Islamic culture we have been blessed with over these last few years?

[hypochondriac]

It's a backward, medieval culture. Most of the developed world don't even believe in religion anymore thankfully.

 

Why don't you tell us all about the modern, forward thinking, progressive Islamic culture we have been blessed with over these last few years?

 

Though TBF an awful lot of Christians don't subscribe to that outdated view of homosexuality. I know many do.

[Orange]

Farage called it early on as usual http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34197707

 

And he was hounded at the time for being a scaremonger to suggest that there was a security threat in opening the doors to hundreds of thousands, coming from a war zone where a group wanting to wage Jihad on Europe are running amok.

[St_Tel49]

Who always rush to condemn this sort of thing.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14033590.Hampshire_s_Muslim_community_condemns_Paris_terror_attacks/

[Micky]

I was genuinely shocked to read the intelligence services already employ 10,000 people and the Government is going to give them another 1,800. You have to question whether we are all so paranoid about security that we are prepared to give up essential liberty . I know that sounds a bit St George but there is a difference.

 

When you consider it though, it's not really that surprising. As somebody who used to work in and around this field back in the day, it's not difficult to see that it is a massive undertaking given todays communication bearers. Pre 80's, intercept was probably only widely conducted on military means of other nations, with the odd exception here and there. Intel was relatively easy to intercept, but needed time and effort to decrypt in most cases.

 

However, bring that up to date now, and not only do we have an interest in our military neighbours, but also a vast amount of civilian / terrorist / extremist groups as well. The internet, most people have access via a simple hand held device and are able to interact with others all around the world - the amount of chatter is immense. Yes, we have the ability to intercept and store that information, but there is now so much of it that it takes a time, manpower and effort to decide what is worthy of analysis and ultimately action.

 

Whilst some might have reservations about the governments desire to eavesdrop upon our passive communications - if the privilege is correctly governed, and it leads to good intelligence being gathered, I have little problem with it.

[badgerx16]

As an aside, given that there were victims from Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, and Senegal, it is very likely that some of the dead were themselves Muslim. They were just out and about, socialising with friends and relatives.

[Johnny Bognor]

Mr Corbyn was asked by BBC Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg whether he would be happy to order police or the military to shoot to kill if there was a similar attack on Britain's streets.

Mr Corbyn said: "I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023

 

Allowing terrorists to run amok, shooting people in restuarants and concert halls is "quite" dangerous too, you complete and utter bellend

[Batman]

lots of strong words coming from Hollande. Lots about 'destroying ISIS'...

 

how about he sort his own country out at the same time.

Edited 16 November, 2015 by Batman

[buctootim]

When you consider it though, it's not really that surprising. As somebody who used to work in and around this field back in the day, it's not difficult to see that it is a massive undertaking given todays communication bearers. Pre 80's, intercept was probably only widely conducted on military means of other nations, with the odd exception here and there. Intel was relatively easy to intercept, but needed time and effort to decrypt in most cases.

 

However, bring that up to date now, and not only do we have an interest in our military neighbours, but also a vast amount of civilian / terrorist / extremist groups as well. The internet, most people have access via a simple hand held device and are able to interact with others all around the world - the amount of chatter is immense. Yes, we have the ability to intercept and store that information, but there is now so much of it that it takes a time, manpower and effort to decide what is worthy of analysis and ultimately action.

 

Whilst some might have reservations about the governments desire to eavesdrop upon our passive communications - if the privilege is correctly governed, and it leads to good intelligence being gathered, I have little problem with it.

 

 

I dont have a problem with military intelligence under any circumstances nor current governments spying on the general population. The problem is that, as Doddisalegend said, once you have given up hard won liberties they are pretty much gone for good and the bulwarks which protect us from a totalitarian regime who would want to wipe out all opposition are weakened.

Edited 16 November, 2015 by buctootim

[sadoldgit]

Do Christians act on that today though? No is your answer. Muslims do.

 

You really need to move past this. We are talking about psychopaths here, not ordinary Muslims.

[sadoldgit]

There are 6,000,000 (give or take 8 or 10) in France alone!

 

Indeed, but apparently they are all plotting to kill us. Seriously, WTF?

[Batman]

Indeed, but apparently they are all plotting to kill us. Seriously, WTF?

 

who has said that?

[Wade Garrett]

You really need to move past this. We are talking about psychopaths here, not ordinary Muslims.

 

That is about the size of it. Good post.

[sadoldgit]

Who always rush to condemn this sort of thing.

 

They do though. Many Muslims come out and speak against the extremist factions. Many have helped the victims of terrorist attacks. The recent beach attack saw a wall of young Muslim men protecting the holiday makers from the gunman. Do you really believe that peaceful followers of Islam are not horrified by these killings too?

[sadoldgit]

who has said that?

 

Have you been following this thread?

[Sour Mash]

who has said that?

It makes the subject a lot easier for him to argue against if he makes things like that up.

[Dig Dig]

It makes the subject a lot easier for him to argue against if he makes things like that up.

 

You're effectively tarnishing everyone with the same brush with your views on restricting immigration of Muslims though.

[Sour Mash]

You're effectively tarnishing everyone with the same brush with your views on restricting immigration of Muslims though.

No I'm not. If I thought every muslim was a terrorist, I would say that clearly.

[Weston Saint]

I have not read through this thread, just a few posts so forgive me if this has already been posted.

 

Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist--a man, whose family was German aristocracy prior t...o World War II, and owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

 

'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of our world had come.

 

My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

 

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

 

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

 

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant.

 

China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

 

The average Japanese individual, prior to World War II, was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians, most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

 

And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

 

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt. Yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

 

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

 

Islamic prayers have now been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?! To whom? Not to the vast majority of Canadians!).

 

The Islamic way is only peaceful until the fanatics move in.

 

In Australia, and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food products in your local supermarket. Foods on aircraft have the halal emblem, just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding throughout the world.

 

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of ?no-go? zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuses to acknowledge British law.

 

As for we who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

[Orange]

To be fair there was a muslim led march after the Charlie Hebdo shootings...only problem was it was a march AGAINST Charlie Hebdo and purpose was to hand a petition to government (signed by over 100,000 British muslims), to place more restrictions/ban illustrations of the prophet. I mean you couldn't make it up.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944946/Thousands-British-Muslims-protest-against-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-publishing-cartoons-Prophet-Mohammed.html

[sadoldgit]

Yes, Islam is peaceful until the fanatics move in, and you can say exactly the same for every religion under the sun, including Christianity. And that is the point. We are talking about extremists here, not the small minority who use religion for their own agenda.

[Guan 2.0]

Have you been following this thread?

 

Show us who has said that then, if the thread is littered with such wrong-headed thinking.

[sadoldgit]

I read on the Gay thread that Britain was a tolerant country. You wouldn't think so reading some of the posts here today.

[Dig Dig]

No I'm not. If I thought every muslim was a terrorist, I would say that clearly.

 

So how would this restriction work in reality and how would it address the cesspits of poverty and segregation where large numbers of Muslims live in places like France and Belgium? They are the kind of conditions which promote fundamentalists. This seems like more of a problem than modern immigration and links to former colonial rule. It's a much more complex issue than any one thing in isolation.

[Sour Mash]

To be fair there was a muslim led march after the Charlie Hebdo shootings...only problem was it was a march AGAINST Charlie Hebdo and purpose was to hand a petition to government (signed by over 100,000 British muslims), to place more restrictions/ban illustrations of the prophet. I mean you couldn't make it up.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944946/Thousands-British-Muslims-protest-against-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-publishing-cartoons-Prophet-Mohammed.html

Crazy isn't it. And people think we should be glad this culture is taking over Western Europe.

[Sour Mash]

So how would this restriction work in reality and how would it address the cesspits of poverty and segregation where large numbers of Muslims live in places like France and Belgium? They are the kind of conditions which promote fundamentalists. This seems like more of a problem than modern immigration and links to former colonial rule. It's a much more complex issue than any one thing in isolation.

As I said in my original post, its sadly too late, its already happened. But actually controlling immigration and stopping the migrant flow would be a start at an absolutely basic level.

[sadoldgit]

No-one has said that, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting that. You have said that Islam and Christianity have the same problem with violence. Which is quite clearly bonkers.

 

But it is not bonkers is it? Christians have been killing each other for centuries and are still doing it as I type. To try and make out that Christians are somehow a more peaceful folk than Islamists just flies in the face of history and all available evidence.

[Batman]

for Weston Saint

 

 

this one ties in with your post. (you have probably seen it)

 

 

[sadoldgit]

Show us who has said that then, if the thread is littered with such wrong-headed thinking.

 

If you have been following this thread you will have read that some posters don't believe that the problem is about psychopathic extremists but it lies with Islam itself. Despite the fact that most of them live peaceful lives alongside people of different beliefs we are led to believe, according to some, that they are all the enemy and that their religion decrees that the rest of us must all die. They are clearly pants at being Muslims then because most of them don't seem to follow that line of thought.

 

#320 and #326 will give you a heads up.

Edited 16 November, 2015 by sadoldgit

[Batman]

If you have been following this thread you will have read that some posters don't believe that the problem is about psychopathic extremists but it lies with Islam itself. Despite the fact that most of them live peaceful lives alongside people of different beliefs we are led to believe, according to some, that they are all the enemy and that their religion decrees that the rest of us must all die. They are clearly pants at being Muslims then because most of them don't seem to follow that line of thought.

 

#320 and #326 will give you a heads up.

[sadoldgit]

It makes the subject a lot easier for him to argue against if he makes things like that up.

 

If you have read this thread you will see that I am not making this up. Apparently all Muslims must kill the Infidels, it is written in their book! For a start that it just an interpretation that has been used by extreme factions. Secondly go and look in the Bible and you can find plenty of examples of extremism. Finally, if this was the case, this country would be in a state of civil war. Amazingly, most Muslims here don't seem to want to kill us and go about peaceful lives every day.

[sadoldgit]

Why are you laughing Caped Crusader? You believe that all those who follow Islam are threats too?

[Batman]

Why are you laughing Caped Crusader? You believe that all those who follow Islam are threats too?

 

no one is suggesting what you imply. Just no one

you are the sort that would have shouted someone down as a racist and other such names for daring to suggest the immigration policy of Europe would lead to terrorism on our door step.

[sadoldgit]

More and more people seem to be taking that attitude ( quite a few I work with anyway). Which of course suits IS and gives a nice narrative to their propaganda. As the Muslim communities in western Europe face increasing hostility in the countries they live in they will naturally feel pushed towards the extremists.

 

As you say, the more we label all Muslims as dangerous extremists the more we play into the hands of the terrorists. This is exactly what they want, to drive a wedge between us and the moderates.

[sadoldgit]

no one is suggesting what you imply. Just no one

you are the sort that would have shouted someone down as a racist and other such names for daring to suggest the immigration policy of Europe would lead to terrorism on our door step.

 

Did you read those posts?

[shurlock]

As you say, the more we label all Muslims as dangerous extremists the more we play into the hands of the terrorists. This is exactly what they want, to drive a wedge between us and the moderates.

 

Thought this was a decent read -as well as shining light on the cultural and ideological attractions of jihadism.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis

[sadoldgit]

That is the biggest load of b*llocks I have ever seen written. No point carrying on if you genuinely believe that. Distancing terrorism from Islam is naive and ignorant. Shows that the person hasn't gone to the effort of reading parts of the quran.

 

Just for you Batman. He then went on to provide figures of the number of Muslims in prison here and I France. I am not sure what that has to do with a group of extremist terrorists because I am sure there are plenty of diversity in every prison of the world, human beings, rob and burgle and rape and commit fraud etc. No one is distancing terrorism from Islam but to pretend that they are all a threat just because a few chose to interpret the Koran in a specific way is ignoring the fact that there are millions of Muslims who do and who want to live in peace. In our lifetime there have been plenty of incidents of terrorism committed by Christians too you know.