Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Sour Mash]

Yet you don't seem remotely bothered about the murders and rapes that are carried out on an all too frequent basis in everyday life. If it is committed by a Muslim though then you and your chums seem to think it takes on a special significance. Just another normal day on TSW Islamophobe thread.

You seriously don't think there is a problem? Something a bit over and above the normal?

[Batman]

France and Germany are basically going through a one-sided civil war. Don't think history has ever seen anything like it before.

 

More so when the response is to cover it up and sing songs whilst holding teddy bears

[sadoldgit]

You seriously don't think there is a problem? Something a bit over and above the normal?

 

There is clearly a problem, as there is with other people killing people, but you, Batman and a few others seem to think that, for whatever reason, murder is a bigger problem if it is carried out by a Muslim. In Batman's case it has become an obsession to go through the news every day and post a link to a killing that may or may not be linked to a Muslim.

 

I found this at random, not that you will be remotely interested.

 

Murders and killings in England and Wales have increased to their highest level for five years, figures show. The 14% increase in the year to September 2015 was largely due to a high number of deaths in June when 75 people were killed in one month, the office of national statistics found. There were 574 murders and killings in total, 71 more than the previous year.

 

So then, you are far more likely to be killed (in Maidstone or anywhere else in England and Wales) by someone who has nothing to do with Islam or IS. Meanwhile Batman will go on ignoring the every day murders and keep on trying to find anything remotely linked to Muslims and you will continue your hate campaign against Islam. And the rest of us will sleep safe in our beds in the knowledge that if we are to be murdered, it probably wont be by a pesky Muslim but more likely by "one of our own."

 

Yes, there is a problem, and it is perpetrated by all members of the human race, not just one religious section.

[Window Cleaner]

More so when the response is to cover it up and sing songs whilst holding teddy bears

 

Hollande and his crew have the nickname "Les Bisounours" which is what the French call the Care Bears.

[Johnny Bognor]

Yet you don't seem remotely bothered about the murders and rapes that are carried out on an all too frequent basis in everyday life. If it is committed by a Muslim though then you and your chums seem to think it takes on a special significance. Just another normal day on TSW Islamophobe thread.

 

Can you list how many hostages have been murdered, suicide bombings, lorries driving through crowds of people, indiscriminate shootings in fast food restaurants, axe attacks on public transport there have been in the UK over the last 4 weeks in the UK???

 

This activity is well over and above the 'norm', but I think you know that already

[hypochondriac]

Can you list how many hostages have been murdered, suicide bombings, lorries driving through crowds of people, indiscriminate shootings in fast food restaurants, axe attacks on public transport there have been in the UK over the last 4 weeks in the UK???

 

This activity is well over and above the 'norm', but I think you know that already

It's really really bizarre that he would deny the evidence in front of his own eyes. These types of terrorist attacks in France and Germany have never happened with this frequency before. It's unprecedented and it's linked to the migrant policy and to radical Islam. It's an undeniable fact and to blather on about unrelated killings is laughable.

[Johnny Bognor]

Murders and killings in England and Wales have increased to their highest level for five years, figures show. The 14% increase in the year to September 2015 was largely due to a high number of deaths in June when 75 people were killed in one month, the office of national statistics found. There were 574 murders and killings in total, 71 more than the previous year.

 

But they are nearly 50% down on what they were in 2003 when there were 1,074 murders. The large increase in 2015 was partly put down to increased gangland activity. The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester. The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.

 

So gang related crime is definitely a problem that needs to be tackled. But if a gang member kills another gang member, it seems less of a problem than a child being mown down by an HGV, where the motive is to kill indiscriminately.

 

It would be interesting to see the number of murders broken down by motive, as this gives a real insight into the numbers.

 

The problem with the recent incidents in Europe, are that they are indiscriminate.. I suspect that most murders in the UK do not have the same motive... crimes of passion, jealousy, mental illness, financial, gang related etc

 

 

After a bit of digging...

 

 

• The most at risk age group for homicides are children under a year of age
  
• Above 16 years, the most at risk age ranges are 16 to 20, and 21 to 29.
  
• Two thirds of homicide victims are male
  
• The most common method used for homicide is a knife or sharp instrument (approx 40% of homicides) for both men and women. The second most common method for males victims was punching or kicking, for female victims it was strangulation. Gun and firearm murders represented 6% of victims
  
• Female victims were most likely to be killed by someone they knew (approx 78%), with around 47% of female victims being killed by a partner or ex-partner, male victims knew their assailant around 57% of the time, being killed by a partner or ex-partner 5% of the time.
  
• Victims under 16 were likely to know their assailant (around 70%), when the assailant was known this was regularly the parent of the victim (50%).
  

Edited 26 July, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[buctootim]

But they are nearly 50% down on what they were in 2003 when there were 1,074 murders. The large increase in 2015 was partly put down to increased gangland activity. The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester. The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.

 

So gang related crime is definitely a problem that needs to be tackled. But if a gang member kills another gang member, it seems less of a problem than a child being mown down by an HGV, where the motive is to kill indiscriminately.

 

It would be interesting to see the number of murders broken down by motive, as this gives a real insight into the numbers.

 

The problem with the recent incidents in Europe, are that they are indiscriminatel.. I suspect that most murders in the UK do not have the same motive... crimes of passion, jealousy, mental illness, financial, gang related etc

 

Around 800,000 people die every year in the UK. Of those maybe 2,000 are killed in car crashes, 550 murders and perhaps 10 on average in terrorism - fewer than are killed by lightning.

 

IS have accounted (depending on what figures you read) for about 30,000 deaths - but another 270,000 people have been killed by other forces in Syria. Which gets the news and why? Shock factor, PR and availability of video isnt a good driver for policy.

Edited 26 July, 2016 by buctootim

[ScepticalStan]

Yet you don't seem remotely bothered about the murders and rapes that are carried out on an all too frequent basis in everyday life. If it is committed by a Muslim though then you and your chums seem to think it takes on a special significance. Just another normal day on TSW Islamophobe thread.

 

Because random murders and rapes aren't carried out as part of a concerted effort to overthrow and/or subdue the population of a country to a particular religion/way of life.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

But they are nearly 50% down on what they were in 2003 when there were 1,074 murders. The large increase in 2015 was partly put down to increased gangland activity. The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester. The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.

 

So gang related crime is definitely a problem that needs to be tackled. But if a gang member kills another gang member, it seems less of a problem than a child being mown down by an HGV, where the motive is to kill indiscriminately.

 

It would be interesting to see the number of murders broken down by motive, as this gives a real insight into the numbers.

 

The problem with the recent incidents in Europe, are that they are indiscriminate.. I suspect that most murders in the UK do not have the same motive... crimes of passion, jealousy, mental illness, financial, gang related etc

 

 

After a bit of digging...

 

 

• The most at risk age group for homicides are children under a year of age
  
• Above 16 years, the most at risk age ranges are 16 to 20, and 21 to 29.
  
• Two thirds of homicide victims are male
  
• The most common method used for homicide is a knife or sharp instrument (approx 40% of homicides) for both men and women. The second most common method for males victims was punching or kicking, for female victims it was strangulation. Gun and firearm murders represented 6% of victims
  
• Female victims were most likely to be killed by someone they knew (approx 78%), with around 47% of female victims being killed by a partner or ex-partner, male victims knew their assailant around 57% of the time, being killed by a partner or ex-partner 5% of the time.
  
• Victims under 16 were likely to know their assailant (around 70%), when the assailant was known this was regularly the parent of the victim (50%).
  

 

I would say the vast majority of the recent European incidents are driven by Mental Illness.

[Saint Benali]

It's really really bizarre that he would deny the evidence in front of his own eyes. These types of terrorist attacks in France and Germany have never happened with this frequency before. It's unprecedented and it's linked to the migrant policy and to radical Islam. It's an undeniable fact and to blather on about unrelated killings is laughable.

 

Exactly. And these are attacks aimed at hurting as many innocent people as possible. People can quote all the crime stats they like but the fact is these attacks are happening on a weekly and almost daily basis.

 

It is just a matter of time before it happens here and I hope it doesn't take something like that to wake people up. If it was your relative who was killed I doubt some on here would be so 'understanding'.

 

I think it was the Bulgarian minister who said things like this would happen if you took in all the middle east people without detailed background checks on them. He was shat on by the media and politicians for not letting these people through on mass. Those who didn't want those checks should be ashamed. The blood is on their hands.

[Sour Mash]

There is clearly a problem, as there is with other people killing people, but you, Batman and a few others seem to think that, for whatever reason, murder is a bigger problem if it is carried out by a Muslim. In Batman's case it has become an obsession to go through the news every day and post a link to a killing that may or may not be linked to a Muslim.

 

I found this at random, not that you will be remotely interested.

 

Murders and killings in England and Wales have increased to their highest level for five years, figures show. The 14% increase in the year to September 2015 was largely due to a high number of deaths in June when 75 people were killed in one month, the office of national statistics found. There were 574 murders and killings in total, 71 more than the previous year.

 

So then, you are far more likely to be killed (in Maidstone or anywhere else in England and Wales) by someone who has nothing to do with Islam or IS. Meanwhile Batman will go on ignoring the every day murders and keep on trying to find anything remotely linked to Muslims and you will continue your hate campaign against Islam. And the rest of us will sleep safe in our beds in the knowledge that if we are to be murdered, it probably wont be by a pesky Muslim but more likely by "one of our own."

 

Yes, there is a problem, and it is perpetrated by all members of the human race, not just one religious section.

You're clearly on a wind up, quite distasteful given the subject matter.

[buctootim]

It is just a matter of time before it happens here and I hope it doesn't take something like that to wake people up. If it was your relative who was killed I doubt some on here would be so 'understanding'.

 

You're missing the point. IS are gradually being destroyed. Attacks in Europe - the more horrific and newsworthy the better - are their way of trying to stir up a wider war between the Arab world and the West. People like Batman and Sour Mash are their unthinking puppets. If you think mass forced deportations of Arab heritage people who have been here for decades will make you safer, then you're wrong.

[Sour Mash]

Exactly. And these are attacks aimed at hurting as many innocent people as possible. People can quote all the crime stats they like but the fact is these attacks are happening on a weekly and almost daily basis.

 

It is just a matter of time before it happens here and I hope it doesn't take something like that to wake people up. If it was your relative who was killed I doubt some on here would be so 'understanding'.

 

I think it was the Bulgarian minister who said things like this would happen if you took in all the middle east people without detailed background checks on them. He was shat on by the media and politicians for not letting these people through on mass. Those who didn't want those checks should be ashamed. The blood is on their hands.

We've got to be thankful for the English Channel otherwise it would most certainly be happening here.

 

We've had our fair share of issues anyway, Lee Rigby, 7/7 being the most obvious and high profile, but just this week a couple of RAF had to fight off an attempted abduction in Lincolnshire I think, barely makes the headlines anymore.

[Saint Benali]

You're missing the point. IS are gradually being destroyed. Attacks in Europe - the more horrific and newsworthy the better - are their way of trying to stir up a wider war between the Arab world and the West. People like Batman and Sour Mash are their unthinking puppets. If you think mass forced deportations of Arab heritage people who have been here for decades will make you safer, then you're wrong.

 

That isn't what I said.....

 

The people coming from that area need to be checked. It doesn't take too long to figure out if someone is unstable. There are a lot of people who are vulnerable who can be easily brainwashed into believing things they are told. That in my opinion is the main issue.

 

IS maybe getting destroyed but another one will take their place, and then another one, and another one. It won't ever end.

[buctootim]

That isn't what I said.....

 

The people coming from that area need to be checked. It doesn't take too long to figure out if someone is unstable. There are a lot of people who are vulnerable who can be easily brainwashed into believing things they are told. That in my opinion is the main issue.

 

IS maybe getting destroyed but another one will take their place, and then another one, and another one. It won't ever end.

 

I know - Im not accusing you.

 

A lot of the people arriving in Europe are coming from Syria and Libya - countries mostly held by opposition and where there is no functioning government to issue ID cards or passports. Many of the rest of the arrivals - know this and pretend to be from those countries. How are you going to check them?

 

What will stop it is when we stop interfering in the middle East - stop creating / worsening civil war in Syria, Iraq and Libya - and start pressurising our supposed allies Saudi Arabia to stop funding the export of Salafism and Israel to come to a settlement with the Palestinians.

[van Hanegem]

What will stop it is when we stop interfering in the middle East - stop creating / worsening civil war in Syria, Iraq and Libya - and start pressurising our supposed allies Saudi Arabia to stop funding the export of Salafism and Israel to come to a settlement with the Palestinians.

 

I agree, let's hope Clinton will be stopped before she and the powers behind her continue to stir up the Middle East and North Africa as they have done for many years. But don't you believe it's necessary to send 'boots on the ground' to really make an end of the dominance of ISIS in certain area's and to make sure people are able to live in relative safety?

[buctootim]

don't you believe it's necessary to send 'boots on the ground' to really make an end of the dominance of ISIS in certain area's and to make sure people are able to live in relative safety?

 

I don't no. I dont think boots on the ground, apart from a few special forces would help.

 

There is a lot of hypocrisy about the West's policy in the Middle East. We've toppled two Governments we didnt like and killed maybe 500,000 people - whilst simultaneously propping up and arming arguably far worse regimes in Saudi Arabia, Bahrein etc.

[van Hanegem]

I don't no. I dont think boots on the ground, apart from a few special forces would help.

 

There is a lot of hypocrisy about the West's policy in the Middle East. We've toppled two Governments we didnt like and killed maybe 500,000 people - whilst simultaneously propping up and arming arguably far worse regimes in Saudi Arabia, Bahrein etc.

 

Hmm, when there's no immediate intervention on the ground I'm afraid ISIS will last longer than we should allow, leaving innocent victims in the hands of these monsters and refugees fleeing to Europe with all the bad consequences following.

 

There's a lot of hypocrisy for sure, the Dutch king went to Saudi Arabia not so long ago with a lot of Dutch companies in his wake, doing business with creeps far worse than the Assad's, Hussein's and Gadaffi's of this world. You don't read or hear much anymore about the situation in Libya for example, a country which is now a failed state any way you look at it. How different things were when Western politicians said Gadaffi had to go, all the controlled media were taking sides back then and the ignorants amongst us couldn't miss why this was a good thing, even after Iraq had fallen apart and had to deal with a civil war inflicted by the West.

 

Gradually Europe is getting paid back for taking part in the so called 'War on Terror', too bad it's always the innocent who are the victims and not the responsible politicians...

[Griffo]

People are becoming so desperate to try to prove that there isn't a problem with Islam whilst these acts are committed pretty much every day now. It's making them look rather silly. Ostriches with heads in the sand.

[Window Cleaner]

People are becoming so desperate to try to prove that there isn't a problem with Islam whilst these acts are committed pretty much every day now. It's making them look rather silly. Ostriches with heads in the sand.

 

then again there's Islam and Islam. As far as I can comprehend these Salafist people not only want to live their own lives as did the original followers of Mohammed in the year 500 Ad or so but they want all the rest of the world to do so as well. I may be wrong there though and that all they really want is a place of their own (you know like Israel or an Amish community) where they can do as they wish and not trouble the world any further with their backward ways. Should that really be the case I'm all for it, get all these burkkad women off our streets and off of our social security bill.

[Griffo]

On another note I'm absolutely appalled at the way our supposedly neutral BBC have reported the recent events.

 

"At least 84 killed by lorry" and "Syrian migrant dies in Germany blast"

[Batman]

Mass fatality attacks hit the roof from 2014. Islamic terrorism is making its mark in history

 

We in Europe could have protected our people far greater than we have. Such a shame

[shurlock]

Mass fatality attacks hit the roof from 2014. Islamic terrorism is making its mark in history

 

We in Europe could have protected our people far greater than we have. Such a shame

 

Still some way off the levels seen during the 1970s.

[Batman]

Still some way off the levels seen during the 1970s.

 

not for mass-fatality attacks I dont think.

anyway....in the 70s around 4.2 MFA happened per year

it jumped to 26 per year from 2014

 

islamic nutters

 

 

obviously, the smaller attacks are just the work of mentally ill, poor drivers and the un-loved (which was the latest excuse just heard on LBC)

[buctootim]

Hmm, when there's no immediate intervention on the ground I'm afraid ISIS will last longer than we should allow, leaving innocent victims in the hands of these monsters and refugees fleeing to Europe with all the bad consequences following.

 

There's a lot of hypocrisy for sure, the Dutch king went to Saudi Arabia not so long ago with a lot of Dutch companies in his wake, doing business with creeps far worse than the Assad's, Hussein's and Gadaffi's of this world. You don't read or hear much anymore about the situation in Libya for example, a country which is now a failed state any way you look at it. How different things were when Western politicians said Gadaffi had to go, all the controlled media were taking sides back then and the ignorants amongst us couldn't miss why this was a good thing, even after Iraq had fallen apart and had to deal with a civil war inflicted by the West.

 

Gradually Europe is getting paid back for taking part in the so called 'War on Terror', too bad it's always the innocent who are the victims and not the responsible politicians...

 

Absolutely true. The hypocrisy is stunning. Western airstrikes on Syria have killed around 4,000 civilians - NOT combatants - in the past two years alone. Far more than IS have killed in Europe.

[Batman]

Absolutely true. The hypocrisy is stunning. Western airstrikes on Syria have killed around 4,000 civilians - NOT combatants - in the past two years alone. Far more than IS have killed in Europe.

 

were they German bombs?

[buctootim]

were they German bombs?

 

I'm sure that's a clever point inside your head.

 

Mainly Russian, US, British and French.

[Batman]

I'm sure that's a clever point inside your head.

 

Mainly Russian, US, British and French.

 

cheers.

[van Hanegem]

Absolutely true. The hypocrisy is stunning. Western airstrikes on Syria have killed around 4,000 civilians - NOT combatants - in the past two years alone. Far more than IS have killed in Europe.

 

Yup, but how many innocent civilians have died by the hands of IS in Syria en Iraq so far? How many more need to die before you think we should really do something about it?

[whelk]

Can't see how attacking a 84 yo priest and slitting his throat whilst filming is in anyway anything to worry about. He pretty much asked for it and fair game for the West's Middle Eastern Policy. Statistically more 84 year olds die in hospital of pneumonia so let's try to fight that and leave these terrorists to get on with their thing.

[Lighthouse]

Absolutely true. The hypocrisy is stunning. Western airstrikes on Syria have killed around 4,000 civilians - NOT combatants - in the past two years alone. Far more than IS have killed in Europe.

 

Really? You honestly can't tell the difference between collateral damage on civilians from air strikes aimed specifically at helping them and some nutter strapping dynamite to himself and running into a crowded music venue.

 

Ask any innocent Syrian if they want the air strikes to stop, even after the civilian casualties. I'll bet you 99% say no, they are essential in fighting the IS nutters who would come in and murder them all deliberately anyway.

[JackFrost]

That isn't what I said.....

 

The people coming from that area need to be checked. It doesn't take too long to figure out if someone is unstable. There are a lot of people who are vulnerable who can be easily brainwashed into believing things they are told. That in my opinion is the main issue.

 

IS maybe getting destroyed but another one will take their place, and then another one, and another one. It won't ever end.

 

When you have an apocalyptic death cult who can freely broadcast on social media, then they'll recruit certain sections of the mentally ill ANYWHERE. Daesh are a conglomeration of the Middle East's psychopaths/sociopaths/paedophiles/dangerous criminals who have thrived due to lawlessness in large swathes of the Middle East. A significant proportion of their leadership are Saddam's old lot. (Good one George/Tone)

 

Geo-political reasons have forced a migration crisis of millions, and people forget that Iraq/Afghanistan were invaded 13/15 years ago now. In other words some of the teenagers/young adults coming over have known nothing but bombs/violence and have never experienced NOT living in a warzone. It is normality for them. Kids like that Afghan on the German train are the children of Afghanistan/Iraq's 'liberation'.

 

Throw in a establishment whose laws allow a migration crisis to go across an entire continent making international borders invisible and here we are. The fragments of the Middle Eastern chaos have blown into Western Europe.

 

Going forward the EU will tighten up border checks and Daesh's HQ will fall in Raqqa and Syria. We'll still get the lone wolf attacks but they'll eventually fizzle out over time when the Middle East gets some stability. The world map will look a hell of a lot different when it eventually happens though, which will well into the future

[shurlock]

not for mass-fatality attacks I dont think.

anyway....in the 70s around 4.2 MFA happened per year

it jumped to 26 per year from 2014

 

islamic nutters

 

 

obviously, the smaller attacks are just the work of mentally ill, poor drivers and the un-loved (which was the latest excuse just heard on LBC)

 

 

From the Global Terrorism Database

[Sour Mash]

I personally take my hat off to the Islamic terrorists, just wait to they feel the force of the moderate backlash, they won't know what hit them. True bravery.

[buctootim]

When you have an apocalyptic death cult who can freely broadcast on social media, then they'll recruit certain sections of the mentally ill ANYWHERE. Daesh are a conglomeration of the Middle East's psychopaths/sociopaths/paedophiles/dangerous criminals who have thrived due to lawlessness in large swathes of the Middle East. A significant proportion of their leadership are Saddam's old lot. (Good one George/Tone)

 

Geo-political reasons have forced a migration crisis of millions, and people forget that Iraq/Afghanistan were invaded 13/15 years ago now. In other words some of the teenagers/young adults coming over have known nothing but bombs/violence and have never experienced NOT living in a warzone. It is normality for them. Kids like that Afghan on the German train are the children of Afghanistan/Iraq's 'liberation'.

 

Throw in a establishment whose laws allow a migration crisis to go across an entire continent making international borders invisible and here we are. The fragments of the Middle Eastern chaos have blown into Western Europe.

 

Going forward the EU will tighten up border checks and Daesh's HQ will fall in Raqqa and Syria. We'll still get the lone wolf attacks but they'll eventually fizzle out over time when the Middle East gets some stability. The world map will look a hell of a lot different when it eventually happens though, which will well into the future

 

Exactly this - unless of course we start if off again with another ill advised venture after Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Syria.

[Batman]

 

From the Global Terrorism Database

 

I was on about mass fatality attacks and around the world (most, if not all by islamic nutters)

which will no doubt fall dramatically now as AL QAEDA and ISIS (or what ever they are to be called) are severely weakened

[buctootim]

Really? You honestly can't tell the difference between collateral damage on civilians from air strikes aimed specifically at helping them and some nutter strapping dynamite to himself and running into a crowded music venue.

 

Ask any innocent Syrian if they want the air strikes to stop, even after the civilian casualties. I'll bet you 99% say no, they are essential in fighting the IS nutters who would come in and murder them all deliberately anyway.

 

Then you're at odds with the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee. I agree with them.

 

"The Committee finds that the benefits of extending British involvement in Coalition airstrikes in Syria are more than outweighed by the risks of legal ambiguity, political chaos on the ground in Syria, military irrelevance, and diplomatic costs.

 

The Committee is not persuaded by the Government’s efforts to treat ISIL and the Syrian civil war as separate issues, and considers that the focus on the extension of airstrikes against ISIL in Syria is a distraction from the much bigger and more important task of finding a resolution to conflict in Syria, which is itself a main cause of ISIL’s rise.

 

The Chairman of the Committee, Crispin Blunt MP, said:"We are concerned that the Government is focusing on extending airstrikes to Syria, responding to the powerful sense that something must be done to tackle ISIL in Syria, without any expectation that its action will be militarily decisive, and without a coherent and long-term plan for defeating ISIL and ending the civil war.

 

There is now a miscellany of uncoordinated military engagements by an alarming range of international actors in Iraq and Syria, all of whom share an interest in defeating ISIL and who between them possess an overwhelming capability to do so. These forces desperately need coordinating into a coherent strategy and that is where our efforts should be focused. Making the military picture yet more complex is a distraction from the key task to help end the suffering and reverse the spread of this dangerous, barbaric and regressive ideology.

 

Just as we need a coordinated military strategy to defeat ISIL, we urgently need a complementary political strategy to end the civil war in Syria. By becoming a full combatant in the US led campaign at this stage, the UK risks needlessly compromising its independent diplomatic ability to support an international political solution to the crisis. Right now, the Government should be focussing all its energies supporting the efforts at international diplomacy in Vienna.

 

In this report, we set out seven points on which the Government should provide further explanation before asking the Commons to approve a motion authorising military action. Success in Vienna would produce an international strategy. There would still be military questions to answer. Until all these points are satisfied, the Government should not try to obtain Parliamentary approval to extend British military action to Syria."

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/foreign-affairs-committee/news-parliament-2015/uk-policy-on-syria-report-published-15-16/

[van Hanegem]

Then you're at odds with the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee. I agree with them.

 

"The Committee finds that the benefits of extending British involvement in Coalition airstrikes in Syria are more than outweighed by the risks of legal ambiguity, political chaos on the ground in Syria, military irrelevance, and diplomatic costs.

 

The Committee is not persuaded by the Government’s efforts to treat ISIL and the Syrian civil war as separate issues, and considers that the focus on the extension of airstrikes against ISIL in Syria is a distraction from the much bigger and more important task of finding a resolution to conflict in Syria, which is itself a main cause of ISIL’s rise.

 

The Chairman of the Committee, Crispin Blunt MP, said:"We are concerned that the Government is focusing on extending airstrikes to Syria, responding to the powerful sense that something must be done to tackle ISIL in Syria, without any expectation that its action will be militarily decisive, and without a coherent and long-term plan for defeating ISIL and ending the civil war.

 

There is now a miscellany of uncoordinated military engagements by an alarming range of international actors in Iraq and Syria, all of whom share an interest in defeating ISIL and who between them possess an overwhelming capability to do so. These forces desperately need coordinating into a coherent strategy and that is where our efforts should be focused. Making the military picture yet more complex is a distraction from the key task to help end the suffering and reverse the spread of this dangerous, barbaric and regressive ideology.

 

Just as we need a coordinated military strategy to defeat ISIL, we urgently need a complementary political strategy to end the civil war in Syria. By becoming a full combatant in the US led campaign at this stage, the UK risks needlessly compromising its independent diplomatic ability to support an international political solution to the crisis. Right now, the Government should be focussing all its energies supporting the efforts at international diplomacy in Vienna.

 

In this report, we set out seven points on which the Government should provide further explanation before asking the Commons to approve a motion authorising military action. Success in Vienna would produce an international strategy. There would still be military questions to answer. Until all these points are satisfied, the Government should not try to obtain Parliamentary approval to extend British military action to Syria."

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/foreign-affairs-committee/news-parliament-2015/uk-policy-on-syria-report-published-15-16/

 

So you agree with them military action against ISIL is needed but you don't want 'boots on the ground' aka we just keep on bombing which already led to 4.000 innocent deaths? I don't get it Tim...

[Manuel]

I personally take my hat off to the Islamic terrorists, just wait to they feel the force of the moderate backlash, they won't know what hit them. True bravery.

They were shot in the head and died.

[buctootim]

So you agree with them military action against ISIL is needed but you don't want 'boots on the ground' aka we just keep on bombing which already led to 4.000 innocent deaths? I don't get it Tim...

 

No. I simply think that the understandable wish to 'do something' isnt enough by itself. I can see military action could have a role - but only as part of a comprehensive plan to end the war and working with the support of the regional players. What exactly is the point of bombing bridges and power stations? Does that aid the civilian population? Does it deter or encourage IS recruitment?

[Sour Mash]

They were shot in the head and died.

 

Phew! They got off lightly then

[Jonnyboy]

That isn't what I said.....

 

The people coming from that area need to be checked. It doesn't take too long to figure out if someone is unstable. There are a lot of people who are vulnerable who can be easily brainwashed into believing things they are told. That in my opinion is the main issue.

 

IS maybe getting destroyed but another one will take their place, and then another one, and another one. It won't ever end.

 

Yet the most significant murders have been carried out by those born and bred in those countries.

[Jonnyboy]

Mass fatality attacks hit the roof from 2014. Islamic terrorism is making its mark in history

 

We in Europe could have protected our people far greater than we have. Such a shame

 

"our people?" you voted leave didn't you?

[Jonnyboy]

I was on about mass fatality attacks and around the world (most, if not all by islamic nutters)

which will no doubt fall dramatically now as AL QAEDA and ISIS (or what ever they are to be called) are severely weakened

 

What are you worried about then?

[Lighthouse]

"our people?" you voted leave didn't you?

 

I didn't vote in the referendum but I know a lot of well educated, informed and genuinely nice people who voted leave because they thought it was best for the country. Gets my goat when I see them passed off as simply being ignorant xenophobes and lumped in the same bracket as Batman.

 

I think Ross Kemp had it pretty much spot on in his documentary the other week. We need the air strikes and we need to support the Kurds in rebuilding their infrastructure. Personally I'd be in favour of a Kurdish state now that we don't have to suck up to Turkey anymore.

[shurlock]

I didn't vote in the referendum but I know a lot of well educated, informed and genuinely nice people who voted leave because they thought it was best for the country. Gets my goat when I see them passed off as simply being ignorant xenophobes and lumped in the same bracket as Batman.

 

I think Ross Kemp had it pretty much spot on in his documentary the other week. We need the air strikes and we need to support the Kurds in rebuilding their infrastructure. Personally I'd be in favour of a Kurdish state now that we don't have to suck up to Turkey anymore.

 

[Jonnyboy]

I didn't vote in the referendum but I know a lot of well educated, informed and genuinely nice people who voted leave because they thought it was best for the country. Gets my goat when I see them passed off as simply being ignorant xenophobes and lumped in the same bracket as Batman.

 

I think Ross Kemp had it pretty much spot on in his documentary the other week. We need the air strikes and we need to support the Kurds in rebuilding their infrastructure. Personally I'd be in favour of a Kurdish state now that we don't have to suck up to Turkey anymore.

 

I'm all for self determination. Sounds like a good idea to create a kurdistan.

[van Hanegem]

No. I simply think that the understandable wish to 'do something' isnt enough by itself. I can see military action could have a role - but only as part of a comprehensive plan to end the war and working with the support of the regional players. What exactly is the point of bombing bridges and power stations? Does that aid the civilian population? Does it deter or encourage IS recruitment?

 

Ok, that's clear and I agree there has to be a comprehensive plan to end the war before you step in with troops on the ground. Bombing bridges and power stations could help the Kurds in their fight against ISIL which should eventually help to set free the civilian population. But as you said above, there's always collateral damage and the CIC must always ask himself if it's worth the risk. I don't have any information on that matter so I can't say if those 4.000 killed civilians you mentioned were the result of setting free far more others who were in danger. Can you?

[1885]

Ok, that's clear and I agree there has to be a comprehensive plan to end the war before you step in with troops on the ground. Bombing bridges and power stations could help the Kurds in their fight against ISIL which should eventually help to set free the civilian population. But as you said above, there's always collateral damage and the CIC must always ask himself if it's worth the risk. I don't have any information on that matter so I can't say if those 4.000 killed civilians you mentioned were the result of setting free far more others who were in danger. Can you?

 

Than there still is Assad, who killed more people than the Islamic state and causes most of the fleeing there.

But Europe prefers to deliver arms to countries like Saudi Arabia who support the Assad regime rather than trying to find a way to have peace there.