Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

We don't really know - as yet anyway - exactly why this one person did what he did in Orlando. I suppose he might be another ISIS fanatic intent on furthering his cause. But there again his behaviour also fits into a long established pattern of extreme gun violence in the US that has little (or nothing) to do with religion but is rather a manifestation of some deepseated psychpathy.

 

For what it's worth his wife says that he was a violent and unstable man. So I wonder can it be that if you wrap yourself in the flag of martyrdom then your vengeance on the world might assume a type of pseudo "nobilty" and meaning that it really does not deserve?

[whelk]

Not even on the Top Stories home page of BBC. Horrendous attack and are we getting used to such horrific barbarism.

 

Bangladesh siege: Twenty killed at Holey Artisan Bakery in Dhaka

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36692613

[Griffo]

Oops. Islam again.

[Sour Mash]

We should respect Islam. They let the football pass by before killing and murdering innocent people again.

 

Let's be honest, France is ****ed, borderline civil war, divided country, muslim takeover. And there's people who's like to see the same for the UK.

[badgerx16]

We should respect Islam. They let the football pass by before killing and murdering innocent people again.

 

I see you are being careful not to stereotype.

[Shance]

Another terror attack in France. Nice.

 

Lorry ploughed into crowd with families and children. over 70 confirmed dead now.

[Pamplemousse]

We should respect Islam. They let the football pass by before killing and murdering innocent people again.

 

Let's be honest, France is ****ed, borderline civil war, divided country, muslim takeover. And there's people who's like to see the same for the UK.

 

Idiot

 

I've lived in a French city with a significant Muslim population and not once were there any issues. And not sort of any 'Muslim takeover'

[Lord Duckhunter]

I see you are being careful not to stereotype.

 

Yeah , let's wait and see what the motive was . It could have been a lone Christian , maybe just a lunatic , perhaps someone making a political point . Or maybe it could be a Muslim terrorist ( that had nothing to do with Islam ) . I know what my money's on .

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'm sure we will soon see the Muslim community marching , condemning , and stating " not in my name " . Won't we ?

 

I'm sure all the decent Muslims living in Pamplemousse's France will be all over the news condemning this . Not .

Edited 15 July, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[Pamplemousse]

Why should Muslims have to come out condemning this? It's not their fault. The overwhelming majority want nothing to do with this.

 

Were all Irish people responsible for the numerous IRA attacks?

 

Nevertheless, there obviously is a problem with Islam. All religions have a radical element but radical Islam is the most extreme. But stereotyping France as some sort of paradise for a Muslim invasion is simply not true.

[whelk]

Horrendous. Drove thorough crowd for 2km swerving for maximum effect to mow down families.

[whelk]

Why should Muslims have to come out condemning this? It's not their fault. The overwhelming majority want nothing to do with this.

 

Were all Irish people responsible for the numerous IRA attacks?

 

Nevertheless, there obviously is a problem with Islam. All religions have a radical element but radical Islam is the most extreme. But stereotyping France as some sort of paradise for a Muslim invasion is simply not true.

 

There are enclaves that do not seem to not have the same condemnation - reports that the Paris attackers roamed free in that Brussels suburb unchallenged.

Condemnation in UK Muslim community about the programme to inform on radicalised neighbours etc.

Everytime there is an attack Many seemingly delight in telling us nothing to do with Islam and revel in being seen as the intelligent liberals or further still blame the nasty West for causing and offending.

 

No one has the answer as our societies are built on civil liberties but one thing is for sure this will give more support to Le Pen.

Edited 15 July, 2016 by whelk

[Batman]

Just another day in the multi-cultural, Western Europe

 

 

France is an utter mess. To think, people here championed Hollande when he came into power. He seriously needs to get a grip of his fuking country

 

no doubt there will be a strong response from France and Europe. Plenty of cuddles, singing and strongly worded interviews telling everyone it has nothing to do with islam.

Edited 15 July, 2016 by Batman

[whelk]

Just another day in the multi-cultural, Western Europe

 

 

France is an utter mess. To think, people here championed Hollande when he came into power. He seriously needs to get a grip of his fuking country

 

no doubt there will be a strong response from France and Europe. Plenty of cuddles, singing and strongly worded interviews telling everyone it has nothing to do with islam.

 

You think it is Hollande's fault? Got a nice simple solution?

[Batman]

You think it is Hollande's fault? Got a nice simple solution?

 

the buck stops with him. he is ultimately responsible for keeping France safe. My father in-law has lived over there since 1990 and says time and time again that the country is a complete shambles and that was accelerated since Hollande came to power. He has never seen France so divided and in a civil mess in his 26 years over there. Really puts our BREXIT tears to the back of the queue in comparison and they have not voted for anything.

Edited 15 July, 2016 by Batman

[whelk]

the buck stops with him. he is ultimately responsible for keeping France country safe. My father in-law has lived over there since 1990 and says time and time again that the country is a complete shambles and that was accelerated since Hollande came to power. He has never seen France so divided and in a civil mess in his 26 years over there. Really puts our BREXIT tears to the back of the queue in comparison

 

Yes agree seems a state and huge issues with social unrest and disengaged Muslim community. Not easy to to turnaround especially with porous borders.

Buck stops with him but again someone coming in place is going to do what?

[Batman]

Yes agree seems a state and huge issues with social unrest and disengaged Muslim community. Not easy to to turnaround especially with porous borders.

Buck stops with him but again someone coming in place is going to do what?

 

sort their internal security out. Stop relying on the UK and US to spoon feed them intelligence (as if they would walk away from that because we are leaving the EU). Maybe freeze the ridiculous free movement of people/Anyone can come attitude. get into Islamic ghetto's and break them up.

Deport terrorist collaborators where possible. Of course, that is if the EU allow them.

Edited 15 July, 2016 by Batman

[Sour Mash]

I'm sure we will soon see the Muslim community marching , condemning , and stating " not in my name " . Won't we ?

 

I'm sure all the decent Muslims living in Pamplemousse's France will be all over the news condemning this . Not .

 

Wait until the people behind this attack feel the brunt of the backlash from moderate Muslims, they really won't know what hit them.

[whelk]

sort their internal security out. Stop relying on the UK and US to spoon feed them intelligence (as if they would walk away from that because we are leaving the EU). Maybe freeze the ridiculous free movement of people/Anyone can come attitude. get into Islamic ghetto's and break them up.

Deport terrorist collaborators where possible. Of course, that is if the EU allow them.

 

Oh sort internal security out. Ok yeah they should do that.

Maybe then go for love peace and harmony the following day.

[whelk]

Just heard expert say ISIS need this sort of atrocity as taking huge hits in Syria. I do wonder if there are conflicted Muslims who would willingly go and fight Assad for the caliphate but actually thinks driving over a mum and her 3 yo daughter having an ice read on the promenade just not something Allah may approve of

[OldNick]

sort their internal security out. Stop relying on the UK and US to spoon feed them intelligence (as if they would walk away from that because we are leaving the EU). Maybe freeze the ridiculous free movement of people/Anyone can come attitude. get into Islamic ghetto's and break them up.

Deport terrorist collaborators where possible. Of course, that is if the EU allow them.

you are in adreamworld if you don't believe this is coming our way soon. Their plan seems obvious to me, pick away at one nation at a time. It doesn't matter how long it takes them to do it.

When I was in the US a few weeks back there was a documentary on, and it focuses on a family who had joined ISIs from Kurdistan. When they arrived the children of the family were around about 5. Now the eldest is about 12 and has been filmed beheading prisoners. He showed no remorse and did it coldly.All part of the radicalisation of the young who will cause some terrible atrocities in time. They are beyond help and the intelligence services can do little to stop such events in part of the world.

It is a long term project, the kids are being taught to become terrorists, if the authorities know where those camps are do they or are they taking them out? A moral delemna

[Batman]

you are in adreamworld if you don't believe this is coming our way soon. Their plan seems obvious to me, pick away at one nation at a time. It doesn't matter how long it takes them to do it.

When I was in the US a few weeks back there was a documentary on, and it focuses on a family who had joined ISIs from Kurdistan. When they arrived the children of the family were around about 5. Now the eldest is about 12 and has been filmed beheading prisoners. He showed no remorse and did it coldly.All part of the radicalisation of the young who will cause some terrible atrocities in time. They are beyond help and the intelligence services can do little to stop such events in part of the world.

It is a long term project, the kids are being taught to become terrorists, if the authorities know where those camps are do they or are they taking them out? A moral delemna

 

Soon? They have been trying to do this here since 2001 in one way or another. The few times, they have succeeded. But to borrow the words of George Osborne, France is open for business it seems.

Blame bombing of Syria or a newspaper producing a cartoon. Anything goes over there and plenty of people seem to excuse it

 

Thankfully, our security services are miles better compared to most nations on earth. That includes France

[buctootim]

Just heard expert say ISIS need this sort of atrocity as taking huge hits in Syria. I do wonder if there are conflicted Muslims who would willingly go and fight Assad for the caliphate but actually thinks driving over a mum and her 3 yo daughter having an ice read on the promenade just not something Allah may approve of

 

Violence in the West is a sign of them losing in Syria and Iraq. Its just lashing out as the organisation collapses.

 

People who join IS are pretty much all conflicted. Its not random, there is a pattern. Generally they are 25 or older - old enough to realise their life is going nowhere. Most failed at school, drifted got into drink, drugs, sex and have a criminal history of other unIslamic activities. Supposedly 80% of the files on IS computers seized by US intelligence are just porn. There is massive hypocrisy and contradiction within IS.

 

The usual thickies on this thread dont understand the origins of the nihilism any more than they could get to grips with the conflict in NI.

[OldNick]

Soon? They have been trying to do this here since 2001 in one way or another. The few times, they have succeeded. But to borrow the words of George Osborne, France is open for business it seems.

Blame bombing of Syria or a newspaper producing a cartoon. Anything goes over there and plenty of people seem to excuse it

 

Thankfully, our security services are miles better compared to most nations on earth. That includes France

Im sorry but i dont agree. Perhaps the burka ban has something to do with France being targeted

[sadoldgit]

Wait until the people behind this attack feel the brunt of the backlash from moderate Muslims, they really won't know what hit them.

 

As you well know, they are no more responsible for this atrocity than you are, but you continue to peddle your hate filled posts on the back of other peoples misery. At some point perhaps you will realise that this is 2016 and thankfully the majority of us are no longer stuck in the 70s.

[buctootim]

Im sorry but i dont agree. Perhaps the burka ban has something to do with France being targeted

 

I think its a numbers game. They just have have bigger populations of people from North African backgrounds who are not well integrated. IS think targetting France will cause some kind of race war. If people like Batman or Sour Mash got any kind of power, it would.

[Window Cleaner]

I think its a numbers game. They just have have bigger populations of people from North African backgrounds who are not well integrated. IS think targetting France will cause some kind of race war. If people like Batman or Sour Mash got any kind of power, it would.

 

Well with the head man of the Interior Intelligence division saying only this last week that there's going to be a muslim/hard right flash point any day soon perhaps they are not wrong.

[OldNick]

As you well know, they are no more responsible for this atrocity than you are, but you continue to peddle your hate filled posts on the back of other peoples misery. At some point perhaps you will realise that this is 2016 and thankfully the majority of us are no longer stuck in the 70s.

I do believe it is valid to think that the people in those communities are better served to root out the mad men. I saw earlier it was mentioned about the IRA, well they were well known in their communities and were protected, the same would be for the extremists in France. Until their own people turn on them this will never go away.

[Batman]

Im sorry but i dont agree. Perhaps the burka ban has something to do with France being targeted

 

incredible, eh

that and people drawing cartoons. when will the french learn

[OldNick]

incredible, eh

that and people drawing cartoons. when will the french learn

Salman Rushdie survived.Of course the world was a much different place whe the fatwa was served on him, Saddam was keeping a lid on it.

[Batman]

Salman Rushdie survived.Of course the world was a much different place whe the fatwa was served on him, Saddam was keeping a lid on it.

 

little excuse to kill people it seems

 

Basically, ISIS are punishing France because they are a pish easy target. People can come and go as they see fit into and out of France, there is a huge Islamic population and the further west you go in Europe, the more liberal people are and will almost excuse these actions.

Edited 15 July, 2016 by Batman

[Griffo]

Thing that makes me laugh is the backlash when this happens from people saying it wouldn't happen if we weren't bombing civilians in Syria etc. Do they really think we're just flying over and dropping bombs indiscriminately on anyone and anything?

[so22saint]

To sound a bit like a "libtard", the pathetic clamour for "all Muslims" to condemn the attack is trolling at it's worst. Sadiq Kahn condemned the attacks immediately. I was in Pacha in Ibiza yesterday morning at 4am in the VIP bit with 2 Kuwaiti Muslims who condemned all the ISIS bull**** (mind you they were celebrating Eid late with a bottle of Belvedere...)

 

Having said that, the clamour to also blame ourselves for this for bombing Syria or whatever is also pathetic. The ISIS type people are arseholes. It's probably more to do with them being poor and poorly educated, and there are numerous arguments for that being "the fault" of the West or whatever but the people who preach hate, and who carry out hate crimes are all ****s (ISIS, Britain First - they're all the ****ing same) and it's those people who should be targeted and exterminated by a coalition of the willing.

[Verbal]

This is a terrific ground-level piece of writing about the conditions, particularly in banlieue districts like St Denis, that have led to the wave of terrorist attacks in France, many of which have been home-grown. (Warning to Corbynistas and far-rightists: the writer, Ben Judah, is Jewish. He's best known for a brilliant book about immigrant life in London: This Is London).

 

https://medium.com/@b_judah/islam-and-the-french-republic-from-the-banlieus-to-le-pen-land-92d8a1fbf0e0#.l1r916q9u

 

Judah paints a picture that is far at odds with what we experience in the UK: a country that is deeply fractured, with extremist Islamists and far-right extremists (whose ideology appeals clearly to a number of dimwits on here) jacking up the barriers of ferocious mutual hostility. Some of the statistics are truly shocking, especially the effects on the Jewish community, who are, metaphorically speaking, the canaries in the coal mine:

 

In 2014, 51% of ALL reported racist attacks in France were against Jews.

 

On average, one Jew a day is assaulted.

 

74% of Jews in skullcaps and 20% of those without reported racist attacks.

 

And since the HyperCache attack in Paris, 10,000 French army troops and 5,000 police guard Jewish-owned buildings.

 

Judah also conveys with awful clarity the horrors of the banlieue, and the way this helps shape the radicalisation of young extremists, providing a kind of echo chamber for the lunatic Salafists winding up the anti-French hysteria, just as the French far-right wind up the anti-immigrant hysteria on their borders.

 

Depressing.

[JackanorySFC]

To sound a bit like a "libtard", the pathetic clamour for "all Muslims" to condemn the attack is trolling at it's worst. Sadiq Kahn condemned the attacks immediately. I was in Pacha in Ibiza yesterday morning at 4am in the VIP bit with 2 Kuwaiti Muslims who condemned all the ISIS bull**** (mind you they were celebrating Eid late with a bottle of Belvedere...)

 

Having said that, the clamour to also blame ourselves for this for bombing Syria or whatever is also pathetic. The ISIS type people are arseholes. It's probably more to do with them being poor and poorly educated, and there are numerous arguments for that being "the fault" of the West or whatever but the people who preach hate, and who carry out hate crimes are all ****s (ISIS, Britain First - they're all the ****ing same) and it's those people who should be targeted and exterminated by a coalition of the willing.

 

But they aren't are they? One group is thick, easily led clowns that can barely spell but apart from turning up in their, errr dozens(?) at demo's here and there are ultimately harmless. The other aims to kill women, kids, you, me or anyone that doesn't agree with their sick, medieval view of how the world should be. To compare them in any way whatsoever is the sort of self loathing, liberal bull**** that allows us to provide an environment where extremism is allowed to flourish.

 

By the way I wonder what attitude those Kuwaiti lads would have to their wife/ sister/ girlfriend going to a club and drinking alcohol? The same people that apologise for these hypocrites are the ones that propose to support feminism and gay rights (neither of which groups do anywthing close enough to challenge/ condemn Muslim attitudes to women/ same sex relationships).

[JackanorySFC]

This is a terrific ground-level piece of writing about the conditions, particularly in banlieue districts like St Denis, that have led to the wave of terrorist attacks in France, many of which have been home-grown. (Warning to Corbynistas and far-rightists: the writer, Ben Judah, is Jewish. He's best known for a brilliant book about immigrant life in London: This Is London).

 

https://medium.com/@b_judah/islam-and-the-french-republic-from-the-banlieus-to-le-pen-land-92d8a1fbf0e0#.l1r916q9u

 

Judah paints a picture that is far at odds with what we experience in the UK: a country that is deeply fractured, with extremist Islamists and far-right extremists (whose ideology appeals clearly to a number of dimwits on here) jacking up the barriers of ferocious mutual hostility. Some of the statistics are truly shocking, especially the effects on the Jewish community, who are, metaphorically speaking, the canaries in the coal mine:

 

In 2014, 51% of ALL reported racist attacks in France were against Jews.

 

On average, one Jew a day is assaulted.

 

74% of Jews in skullcaps and 20% of those without reported racist attacks.

 

And since the HyperCache attack in Paris, 10,000 French army troops and 5,000 police guard Jewish-owned buildings.

 

Judah also conveys with awful clarity the horrors of the banlieue, and the way this helps shape the radicalisation of young extremists, providing a kind of echo chamber for the lunatic Salafists winding up the anti-French hysteria, just as the French far-right wind up the anti-immigrant hysteria on their borders.

 

Depressing.

 

Very interesting, thought provoking read. France (specifically it's urban centres) are really losing their grip it seems. Open drug dealing, huge amounts of violent crime/ theft and a growing element of their population completely at odds with the original principles of Liberty/ La Republic. The kid's attitudes to Jewish people is completely shocking ("Jews = money as they were bankers in the Middle ages and get an inheritance").

[Griffo]

(ISIS, Britain First - they're all the ****ing same).

 

Edited 15 July, 2016 by Griffo

[JackFrost]

Im sorry but i dont agree. Perhaps the burka ban has something to do with France being targeted

 

The thing that intrigues me with this case so far is that Hollande said straightaway it was a terrorist incident but,

 

AFAIK

 

-No one including Daesh have claimed the attack

-The perpetrator is not known to have any jihadist links, shown any signs of radicalisation and apparently wasn't even particularly religious

-He has history of domestic violence and was supposedly going through divorce.

-Reports of his previous misdemeanors indicate he had a very short temper (previously attacked a driver with a pallet during a traffic incident according to the BBC)

-Some reports claim the weapons found in the lorry are fake

 

So I'm intrigued as to why Hollande knows it's a terrorist incident as opposed to say the guy having a horrific mental breakdown akin to that guy that flew the plane into the mountain.

[Batman]

The thing that intrigues me with this case so far is that Hollande said straightaway it was a terrorist incident but,

 

AFAIK

 

-No one including Daesh have claimed the attack

-The perpetrator is not known to have any jihadist links, shown any signs of radicalisation and apparently wasn't even particularly religious

-He has history of domestic violence and was supposedly going through divorce.

-Reports of his previous misdemeanors indicate he had a very short temper (previously attacked a driver with a pallet during a traffic incident according to the BBC)

-Some reports claim the weapons found in the lorry are fake

 

So I'm intrigued as to why Hollande knows it's a terrorist incident as opposed to say the guy having a horrific mental breakdown akin to that guy that flew the plane into the mountain.

 

probably because his intelligence people are telling him this

[Sour Mash]

The thing that intrigues me with this case so far is that Hollande said straightaway it was a terrorist incident but,

 

AFAIK

 

-No one including Daesh have claimed the attack

-The perpetrator is not known to have any jihadist links, shown any signs of radicalisation and apparently wasn't even particularly religious

-He has history of domestic violence and was supposedly going through divorce.

-Reports of his previous misdemeanors indicate he had a very short temper (previously attacked a driver with a pallet during a traffic incident according to the BBC)

-Some reports claim the weapons found in the lorry are fake

 

So I'm intrigued as to why Hollande knows it's a terrorist incident as opposed to say the guy having a horrific mental breakdown akin to that guy that flew the plane into the mountain.

His name is Mohammed. There's been a huge problem with Islamic terrorism. It's a reasonable assumption to make that the two are connected, look at what France has been through the last few years.

[Griffo]

His name is Mohammed. There's been a huge problem with Islamic terrorism. It's a reasonable assumption to make that the two are connected, look at what France has been through the last few years.

 

It seems to me like people are desperate to try and distance every single terror attack from Islam. I can imagine them sat in a dark room rocking up and down in the corner muttering "Nothing to do with Islam" to themselves.

[Window Cleaner]

probably because his intelligence people are telling him this

 

 

Like they actually know anything. Our state of emergency is just a bit of a joke, Belfast in the 70s now that was how you do it.

Hollande just wants to be popular all of the time so the Etat d'Urgence is just a lite version where nothing is prohibited and everything goes ahead as normal with a just few reservistes hanging around on street corners.

For me this is just a nutjob with a truck and a handgun, a copycat terrorist wannabee.

Edited 15 July, 2016 by Window Cleaner

[JackFrost]

It seems to me like people are desperate to try and distance every single terror attack from Islam. I can imagine them sat in a dark room rocking up and down in the corner muttering "Nothing to do with Islam" to themselves.

 

If the police find an ISIS flag in the lorry I'd be perfectly happy to acknowledge the fact. It's just personally I don't jump on bandwagons before finding out facts.

 

Also given that a number of the victims were Muslims your statement couldn't be further from the truth.

[Batman]

If the police find an ISIS flag in the lorry I'd be perfectly happy to acknowledge the fact. It's just personally I don't jump on bandwagons before finding out facts.

 

Also given that a number of the victims were Muslims your statement couldn't be further from the truth.

what has the make up of the victims got to do with anything?

[Griffo]

Also given that a number of the victims were Muslims your statement couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Collateral.

[Manuel]

Remember there are 23 billion followers of Islam in the world. To say that Islam is the problem because a handful of people murder...well you do the math.

 

Was Christianity the problem when the IRA were bombing?

[Window Cleaner]

Remember there are 23 billion followers of Islam in the world. To say that Islam is the problem because a handful of people murder...well you do the math.

 

Was Christianity the problem when the IRA were bombing?

 

I don't think that there are even 23 billion habitants on the planet actually. Unless of course ants and termites have gone all

Islamic.

[ScepticalStan]

Just another day in the multi-cultural, Western Europe

 

 

France is an utter mess. To think, people here championed Hollande when he came into power. He seriously needs to get a grip of his fuking country

 

no doubt there will be a strong response from France and Europe. Plenty of cuddles, singing and strongly worded interviews telling everyone it has nothing to do with islam.

 

You think it is Hollande's fault? Got a nice simple solution?

 

See its interesting.

 

Even four or five years ago people were still peddling the 'No true Muslims' meme.

 

But now, with the reality having truly obliterated that line of defence, its now changed into 'got any solutions?' (The implication being that there are none, and therefore by extension that we shouldn't do anything & should simply learn to cope).

 

If its a choice between Donald Trump/Marine Le Pen and literally doing nothing, the world could be in for a shock.

[Manuel]

2.3 billion, apologies, or thereabouts. Very many anyway. It's understandable to kneejerk after terrible events but we shouldn't lose our minds about what the problem is here, and it isn't as simple as "Islam".

[Lord Duckhunter]

Remember there are 23 billion followers of Islam in the world. To say that Islam is the problem because a handful of people murder...well you do the math.

 

Was Christianity the problem when the IRA were bombing?

 

Islam is intolerant, bigoted and medieval . It's values are incompatable with modern liberal countries . Of course millions of Muslims shouldn't take responsibility for a small % of nutters , but they should take responsibility for the way their religion treats women, gays and other religions.

 

The problem is mainstream Muslim behaviour