Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Batman]

This will all only get worse. Let's keep allowing 1000s of refugees, sorry, economic migrants in though. Yet again there's people distancing these attacks from Islam. It's got everything to do with Islam. The quran says this sh*t in it. It's written in black and white. Islam is not compatible with the western world. People are putting their heads in the sand.

 

it is fairly simple isnt it. I have no idea why people keep trying to separate the two. It is like saying the housing crisis has nothing to do with the 300,000 people we keep letting into the UK every year.

 

These terrorist were in a neighbourhood in Belgium. A once typically Belgium town. Now it is a haven for angry young Muslims. Who are able to get into a car, loaded with bombs and rifles, travel into another country, into their capital and murder over 129 of its people for no apparent reason. AND drive back (those who survived)

 

we cant track them properly because the fear of imposing on their human rights and free speech. So this will happen again and again.

I find it fairly alarming how soft we appear with everything. let alone the Germans telling the whole of the islamic population to just come on over.

 

There will be the plants in QT on thursday who will say this has nothing to do with Islam, it is all our fault and we should be obliged to take as many who want to come here and NEVER impose on their basic human rights. Regardless of what they say.

 

at some point, all of the above became the norm and acceptable to our way of life

[Batman]

What about the tens if not hundreds of thousands of Muslims who live perfectly peacefully in Western Europe?

 

quite easy, Stop the open border policy and make them apply to live here. So we can at least attempt to have an idea who is coming.

It may not work 100% but it is a million times better than the fuking free-for-all we have now (cheers Germany)

[Griffo]

What about the tens if not hundreds of thousands of Muslims who live perfectly peacefully in Western Europe?

 

Who always rush to condemn this sort of thing.

[doddisalegend]

We MUST allow them the freedom of speech.

 

Even though this is basically overt sympathy for what happened in france. As long as they have their freedom of speech and movement. This will happen again and again

 

 

 

The security services are asking us for more powers, they want to be able to tackle these people more rigorously online.

 

as a nation, we just moan at these requests. Which is quite tragic really.

 

MOAN MOAN MOAN

 

 

The issue though is once the government is given the right in law to ban free speech, hold people without trial and monitor every aspect of your life what's to stop those powers being used against you and I in the future?

 

No one is going to pass a law saying we can do these things to Muslims and no one else. Once we give the government those sort of powers there is no turning back.

[Batman]

The issue though is once the government is given the right in law to ban free speech, hold people without trial and monitor every aspect of your life what's to stop those powers being used against you and I in the future?

 

No one is going to pass a law saying we can do these things to Muslims and no one else. Once we give the government those sort of powers there is no turning back.

I know someone who works in the security services. I have asked him this question

they are so stretched that even if this law was to be brought in, they have absolutely no where near the time, resources, man power, capability to interfere with someone with zero reason.

[CB Fry]

Worth noting that security guard who stopped him was allegedly a muslim, and has therefore potentially saved the lives of hundreds of 'westerners'? http://says.com/my/news/muslim-security-guard-zouheir-hero-paris-attacks

.

 

This is a twitterati story that has got a bit out of hand - there was a security guard called Zouhier who spoke to the press, but he was relaying what others had told him, and was stationed near the players not at the entrance. The source material - I think it is a Wall Street Journal article - makes this very clear, but the people linking to it on social media have decided that this was the guy who saved the president and all the people and he's a muslim and the horrible media don't care. The media don't care because it's just not true.

[Sour Mash]

This will all only get worse. Let's keep allowing 1000s of refugees, sorry, economic migrants in though. Yet again there's people distancing these attacks from Islam. It's got everything to do with Islam. The quran says this sh*t in it. It's written in black and white. Islam is not compatible with the western world. People are putting their heads in the sand.

Its mad. And there's plenty of people, including some on here that think the growth of Islam in Western Europe is a good thing. Mental.

[benjii]

Obviously what happened in Paris was awful (although more people died in the Russian plane bombing and I didn't see swathes of Russian flags adorning Facebook photos and people falling over themselves to be silent or post trite quotes from Mandela or Ghandi or whatever then, but anyway, that's another topic....) but it is quite easy to fall into the trap of ego-centralising this whole issue. The "west" is largely untouched by ISIS. You see phrases like, "they hate us - they want to destroy our way of lives etc..". Do people honestly believe the ISIS commanders view the annihilation of western civilisation as remotely possible or plausible?

 

ISIS have persecuted far greater (in volume) crimes against Muslims who they think are "bad Muslims" and minorities in the middle east. The genocide of the Yazidi, for example. This is not, "them against us"; we are collateral damage. France and Russia appear to have been targeted due to their recent activities in the region. These were tactical attacks. They are not premised on abstract dogma - at least not amongst the commanders (you obviously need a supply of indoctrinated foot soldiers willing to die to perpetrate these things).

 

The portentous and, frankly, ridiculous language of a great war, of a clash of civilizations between east and west is moronic.

 

That doesn't mean some tactical military intervention is not justified but we should be quite clear: if we go into Syria and Iraq our objective has to be for the people of that region. It is not for our own ends because if we protect ourselves the problems will not go away. We are not the real target and, although it is horrible and my heart aches for those affected, a few hundred civilian deaths every now and then is hardly going to bring down the west or western values. What might, is if enough Westerners start behaving like stupid children.

 

We can negotiate? Not really. It is not within our gift to ensure that "deviant" sects of Islam adhere to the Salafist Sunni creed. That's what they (ISIS) want first of all. They would probably be quite happy if there was a global caliphate but the true power-holders in these organisations are not stupid enough to believe that can possibly happen any time soon (if ever).

 

What's the answer? I don't know but I know we have more chance of getting there eventually if reason defeats hyperbole.

[Griffo]

Its mad. And there's plenty of people, including some on here that think the growth of Islam in Western Europe is a good thing. Mental.

 

People will do anything to come across as not being racist.

[doddisalegend]

quite easy, Stop the open border policy and make them apply to live here. So we can at least attempt to have an idea who is coming.

It may not work 100% but it is a million times better than the fuking free-for-all we have now (cheers Germany)

 

 

But several of the Paris attackers were apparently born and breed in France and Belgium they aren't immigrants. There are plenty on 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims living in western Europe who seem to be attracted to extremism. Stopping immigrants coming to western Europe would make no difference to those people.

[Sour Mash]

I know someone who works in the security services. I have asked him this question

they are so stretched that even if this law was to be brought in, they have absolutely no where near the time, resources, man power, capability to interfere with someone with zero reason.

I saw something in the news this morning about Cameron wanting to recruit thousands more for the intelligence services. That must surely take years, to recruit, train, manage and resource them properly.

[Batman]

But several of the Paris attackers were apparently born and breed in France and Belgium they aren't immigrants. There are plenty on 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims living in western Europe who seem to be attracted to extremism. Stopping immigrants coming to western Europe would make no difference to those people.

 

born and bred as 2nd generation Muslim immigrants.

all part of the insane open border, free movement, everyone can come and do what they like policy over in the mainland

 

but all part of the security services asking for more powers. Not to check up on you but to ensure you have the best possible chance of going to work or the movies and not get a bullet in your head from a nutter who's parents moved over here and he has bee brainwashed by the likes of the group Sour Mash posted, in our own country

Edited 16 November, 2015 by Batman

[sadoldgit]

Which is why I said an aggressive offensive in agreement with other Arab states is the best way forward. It's not ideal by any means but it's the least worst option. Certainly better than some vague talk about negotiations.

 

If the comment re "vague talk about negotiations" is aimed at me I did not say that if we start talking now it will end the conflict now (no more than a policy of killing every terrorist will end it). I said that conflicts end with a dialogue and that we should seek to get to that point sooner rather than later. The situation in the Middle East is cleary highly complex. It is not just ISIS against the West. As you know there are many extremist factions and they seem to be just as much at odds with each other as they are with the west. We can go on bombing installations and taking out individuals with drone strikes until hell freezes over but that isn't going to end the problem. Perhaps instead of blowing them to pieces we should put them through a judicial process where possible and make them stand up an try and justify their actions in front of the world? We managed to track down Bin Laden, would taken JJ out have been harder? As part of the process we could try and learn what has radicalised them in the first place so that we can find ways to stop British and European Muslims from becoming radicalised in the first place? Yes I totally agree that we need to work with other states in the Middle East in dealing with this problem and that may also involve talking to people whose regimes we find abhorrent but that will help with IS and their aim to grab land and a power base, but as I said before, what do you do with the many and diverse would be suicide bombers already spread amongst us?

[aintforever]

I know someone who works in the security services. I have asked him this question

they are so stretched that even if this law was to be brought in, they have absolutely no where near the time, resources, man power, capability to interfere with someone with zero reason.

 

This. The Police need these extra powers to stand any chance of keeping the public safe.

 

Anyone who thinks this will turn is into a police state is deluded. There are plenty of safeguards that can and would be put in place to stop the powers being abused even if the Police had the time and resources - which they don't.

[Batman]

I saw something in the news this morning about Cameron wanting to recruit thousands more for the intelligence services. That must surely take years, to recruit, train, manage and resource them properly.

 

it does. This should have happened years ago but the will from the public and the politicians just has not been there.

we have been safe here since 2005. In europe since 2004 really.

 

How the services have foiled what they do is remarkable. More so with the hoops they have to jump through

[sadoldgit]

People will do anything to come across as not being racist.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with being racist, probably more to do with the number of people who follow a religion that they have every right to follow. Islam is no more or less a violent religion than Christianity.

[sadoldgit]

it does. This should have happened years ago but the will from the public and the politicians just has not been there.

we have been safe here since 2005. In europe since 2004 really.

 

How the services have foiled what they do is remarkable. More so with the hoops they have to jump through

 

Who needs more intelligence offices when you have Batman?

[Sour Mash]

Islam is no more or less a violent religion than Christianity.

That's not currently the case is it?

[sadoldgit]

duplication

Edited 16 November, 2015 by sadoldgit

[Griffo]

Islam is no more or less a violent religion than Christianity.

 

That is the biggest load of b*llocks I have ever seen written. No point carrying on if you genuinely believe that. Distancing terrorism from Islam is naive and ignorant. Shows that the person hasn't gone to the effort of reading parts of the quran.

Edited 16 November, 2015 by Griffo

[aintforever]

I don't think it has anything to do with being racist, probably more to do with the number of people who follow a religion that they have every right to follow. Islam is no more or less a violent religion than Christianity.

 

Not sure that is true. What stats are you using?

[sadoldgit]

This. The Police need these extra powers to stand any chance of keeping the public safe.

 

Anyone who thinks this will turn is into a police state is deluded. There are plenty of safeguards that can and would be put in place to stop the powers being abused even if the Police had the time and resources - which they don't.

 

Police funding has been cut substantially over the last few years as part of the Public Spending Review. There are fewer police on the streets. We have even lost our community policeman. It is one thing saying give them greater powers, it is another having enough to do the job in the first place.

[sadoldgit]

Not sure that is true. What stats are you using?

 

"Muslims constitute the worlds second largest religious group. According to a 2010 study and released January 2011 Islam has 1.6 billion adherents making up over 22% of the world population." This from Wikipedia but I have seen that figure quoted several times elsewhere. Second largest religious group is what needs focussing on. This is not some crackpot garage cult.

[doddisalegend]

I know someone who works in the security services. I have asked him this question

they are so stretched that even if this law was to be brought in, they have absolutely no where near the time, resources, man power, capability to interfere with someone with zero reason.

 

 

Ok so say a new government comes to power in five years time and brings in some policies you don't like. You attend a protest against the new government and are singled out by security services as a problem. Thanks to the new laws, you wanted, they monitor your emails, then they decide to curtail your free speech and finally they black bag you and hold you without trail in a secure holding facility as an enemy of the state. Sounds far fetched and probably is. The point is though once you give government those powers you can't control how the use them in the future.

[sadoldgit]

That is the biggest load of b*llocks I have ever seen written. No point carrying on if you genuinely believe that. Distancing terrorism from Islam is naive and ignorant. Shows that the person hasn't gone to the effort of reading parts of the quran.

 

So you really believe that all Muslims are gun toting suicide bombers?

[Griffo]

So you really believe that all Muslims are gun toting suicide bombers?

 

No, but a hell of a lot of them hold views similar. How can they not when it is written in their book?

[sadoldgit]

That is the biggest load of b*llocks I have ever seen written. No point carrying on if you genuinely believe that. Distancing terrorism from Islam is naive and ignorant. Shows that the person hasn't gone to the effort of reading parts of the quran.

 

Listen, if 1.6 billion Muslims decided to take out the Infidel you are I would not be sitting here typing this stuff today.

[Sour Mash]

So you really believe that all Muslims are gun toting suicide bombers?

No-one has said that, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting that. You have said that Islam and Christianity have the same problem with violence. Which is quite clearly bonkers.

[Griffo]

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/11/16/uk-muslim-crowd-mock-christian-pensioner-over-his-faith-in-hyde-park/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Nice religion.

[sadoldgit]

No, but a hell of a lot of them hold views similar. How can they not when it is written in their book?

 

A hell of a lot? There is some heavy stuff written in the Bible too and you cant tell me that the Catholics and Protestants have spent a lifetime turning the other cheek. It is how some people decide to interpret what is written and clearly the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding people.

[doddisalegend]

So you really believe that all Muslims are gun toting suicide bombers?

 

 

More and more people seem to be taking that attitude ( quite a few I work with anyway). Which of course suits IS and gives a nice narrative to their propaganda. As the Muslim communities in western Europe face increasing hostility in the countries they live in they will naturally feel pushed towards the extremists.

[Griffo]

A hell of a lot? There is some heavy stuff written in the Bible too and you cant tell me that the Catholics and Protestants have spent a lifetime turning the other cheek. It is how some people decide to interpret what is written and clearly the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding people.

 

Muslims make up 4.3% of the UK population. 14.1% of the prison population. 12% of French population and 70% of prison population.

[sadoldgit]

And your point is? You are more likely to be killed here by a British "Christian" than you are a Muslim. I am willing to bet that you speak to loads of Muslims every day. Still alive then?

[JackFrost]

That is the biggest load of b*llocks I have ever seen written. No point carrying on if you genuinely believe that. Distancing terrorism from Islam is naive and ignorant. Shows that the person hasn't gone to the effort of reading parts of the quran.

 

What, like the parts of the Quran that strictly prohibit violence and aggression?

 

There are also plenty of er interesting verses in the bible as well by the way, like in the book of Samuel where David mutilates the bodies of his enemies, chops off their genitals and brings them back to Saul, who gives David his daughter as a reward.

 

Both the bible and the quran were written in times when cultures were let's say significantly less developed than they are now, and the problem today are psychopaths twisting religious texts to suit their bloodthirsty agendas whilst gleefully ignoring anything that specifically states what they doing is wrong.

 

IS murdering people in cold blood in the name of Allah represents Islam about as much as the Lord's Resistance Army killing and mutilating children in Africa represents Christianity.

[Griffo]

What, like the parts of the Quran that strictly prohibit violence and aggression?

 

There are also plenty of er interesting verses in the bible as well by the way, like in the book of Samuel where David mutilates the bodies of his enemies, chops off their genitals and brings them back to Saul, who gives David his daughter as a reward.

 

 

Do Christians act on that today though? No is your answer. Muslims do.

[Batman]

Ok so say a new government comes to power in five years time and brings in some policies you don't like. You attend a protest against the new government and are singled out by security services as a problem. Thanks to the new laws, you wanted, they monitor your emails, then they decide to curtail your free speech and finally they black bag you and hold you without trail in a secure holding facility as an enemy of the state. Sounds far fetched and probably is. The point is though once you give government those powers you can't control how the use them in the future.

 

do you even know what the 4 pillars that the security services wrok for?

 

attending a demo in london in the name of student cuts is not it

[Sour Mash]

What, like the parts of the Quran that strictly prohibit violence and aggression?

 

There are also plenty of er interesting verses in the bible as well by the way, like in the book of Samuel where David mutilates the bodies of his enemies, chops off their genitals and brings them back to Saul, who gives David his daughter as a reward.

 

Both the bible and the quran were written in times when cultures were let's say significantly less developed than they are now, and the problem today are psychopaths twisting religious texts to suit their bloodthirsty agendas whilst gleefully ignoring anything that specifically states what they doing is wrong.

 

IS murdering people in cold blood in the name of Allah represents Islam about as much as the Lord's Resistance Army killing and mutilating children in Africa represents Christianity.

Islamic violence is much more of a problem than Christian violence, has been for a while and looks like it will continue to be for some time going forward. Thankfully, no-one pays much attention to the bible these days. Unfortunately, loads of people pay attention to the Quran.

[bridge too far]

Do Christians act on that today though? No is your answer. Muslims do.

 

Selective quoting. I notice you didn't answer this bit

 

"IS murdering people in cold blood in the name of Allah represents Islam about as much as the Lord's Resistance Army killing and mutilating children in Africa represents Christianity."

[Sour Mash]

Selective quoting. I notice you didn't answer this bit

 

"IS murdering people in cold blood in the name of Allah represents Islam about as much as the Lord's Resistance Army killing and mutilating children in Africa represents Christianity."

They're both scum, but one is a far bigger, more widespread problem than the other, wouldn't you agree?

[hypochondriac]

What, like the parts of the Quran that strictly prohibit violence and aggression?

 

There are also plenty of er interesting verses in the bible as well by the way, like in the book of Samuel where David mutilates the bodies of his enemies, chops off their genitals and brings them back to Saul, who gives David his daughter as a reward.

 

Both the bible and the quran were written in times when cultures were let's say significantly less developed than they are now, and the problem today are psychopaths twisting religious texts to suit their bloodthirsty agendas whilst gleefully ignoring anything that specifically states what they doing is wrong.

 

IS murdering people in cold blood in the name of Allah represents Islam about as much as the Lord's Resistance Army killing and mutilating children in Africa represents Christianity.

 

That is all true but clearly in this day and age Islam has a bigger problem with this sort of thing than Christian nutters. Clearly.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

What about the tens if not hundreds of thousands of Muslims who live perfectly peacefully in Western Europe?

There are 6,000,000 (give or take 8 or 10) in France alone!

[Window Cleaner]

There are 6,000,000 (give or take 8 or 10) in France alone!

 

Who do not all live peacefully. The horn concert in some slum suburbs on Friday night and the Algerian flags on the cars

will tell you that. 70% of France's prison population are of the Muslim persuasion and thousands more who should be in there with them are still walking about free as air because of the soft justice. Several of the attackers had prison sentences hanging over them and one had been convicted 8 times and had never done a day in pokey.

Edited 16 November, 2015 by Window Cleaner

[JackFrost]

Do Christians act on that today though? No is your answer.

 

For starters can you please do some research on

-The Waco School siege/David Koresh

-Oklahoma City Bombing

-Lord's Resistance Army

-Anders Breivik

 

You'll soon catch up.

 

Muslims do.

 

No that's called violent jihadism.

 

Islamic violence is much more of a problem than Christian violence, has been for a while and looks like it will continue to be for some time going forward. Thankfully, no-one pays much attention to the bible these days. Unfortunately, loads of people pay attention to the Quran.

 

Any psychopath can call themselves a 'muslim' or a 'christian'. The reason why they do is to fool gullible people that their behaviour in the name of what they believe in represents some sort of normality or even what their supposed to believe in.

 

The amusing thing is you write as if violence didn't exist before the world's major religion existed.

[JackFrost]

They're both scum, but one is a far bigger, more widespread problem than the other, wouldn't you agree?

 

I totally agree.

 

One's far better funded for a start.

[Sour Mash]

I totally agree.

 

One's far better funded for a start.

So you think with increased funding we'd see Christian terrorist attacks all over the world?

[Sour Mash]

For starters can you please do some research on

-The Waco School siege/David Koresh

-Oklahoma City Bombing

-Lord's Resistance Army

-Anders Breivik

 

You'll soon catch up.

 

 

 

No that's called violent jihadism.

 

 

 

Any psychopath can call themselves a 'muslim' or a 'christian'. The reason why they do is to fool gullible people that their behaviour in the name of what they believe in represents some sort of normality or even what their supposed to believe in.

 

The amusing thing is you write as if violence didn't exist before the world's major religion existed.

Shall we compare your list to recent Islamic terrorism? Do you reckon we've got enough time today to list that all out though, I'm not sure? They're not really comparable in terms of scale are they.

 

And can you just clarify your last point a bit? Are you saying that they don't really believe themselves that they're Muslims, but are just saying they're doing it in the name of allah to trick other people?

[Johnny Bognor]

For starters can you please do some research on

-The Waco School siege/David Koresh

-Oklahoma City Bombing

-Lord's Resistance Army

-Anders Breivik

 

You'll soon catch up.

 

 

 

No that's called violent jihadism.

 

 

 

Any psychopath can call themselves a 'muslim' or a 'christian'. The reason why they do is to fool gullible people that their behaviour in the name of what they believe in represents some sort of normality or even what their supposed to believe in.

 

The amusing thing is you write as if violence didn't exist before the world's major religion existed.

 

When we burned people at the stake for witchcraft, executed people for heresy and catholics killed protestants and protestants killed catholics, were they not christians???

 

These fundamentalists are islamic, the difference is that the vast majority of muslims and christians have evolved over the last few hundred years.

[sussexsaint]

Buddhist Monks killing women and children in cold blood

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/01/buddhists-continue-to-slaughter-muslims-in-myanmar/

 

Is Buddhism fundamentally a violent religion?

 

By making sweeping statements and making us push the venn diagram of extremists and the majority of a religion together as one, you are doing precisely what terror attacks are designed to achieve. Fear and hatred of the whole religion and culture.

[buctootim]

Its a war between one Muslim sect against the rest of Islam based on the teachings of one man who wasnt born until the 1700s -1,000 years after Mohammed died. Its a perversion of the religion which is why muslim Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and UAE

have committed arms and planes to the fight.

[Sour Mash]

Buddhist Monks killing women and children in cold blood

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/01/buddhists-continue-to-slaughter-muslims-in-myanmar/

 

Is Buddhism fundamentally a violent religion?

 

By making sweeping statements and making us push the venn diagram of extremists and the majority of a religion together as one, you are doing precisely what terror attacks are designed to achieve. Fear and hatred of the whole religion and culture.

You can probably find an example of every society doing such acts, but nothing is posing such a large scale, problem as Islam, that's the point, we're not talking about the odd freak event here and there. Western Europe made a mistake letting in Islam in such a scale, it's stuck with the problem now.