Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[sadoldgit]

It may be that the root cause of the problem here is that some people suffer from a form of mild cognitive disorder that manifests itself in them invariably seeing problems in simple "black or white" terms, while other (more subtle) minds respond to the complexity of the world by comprehending endless "shades of grey". If I recall correctly psychiatrists depict people who fall into the former group as "Polarised Thinkers".

 

For example, anything that is not perfect must therefore be a failure as the existance of a "middle ground" is almost inconceivable to the true polarised thinker. I suppose what we might call the - if you oppose racism then you support terrorism - attitude sometimes displayed on here falls very much into this category.

 

Nail on head here Charlie.

[whelk]

Did Trevor have anything to say about Islamophobia of those who spend their days looking for negative Muslim stories on the Internet?

 

you going to watch the programme SOG?

[buctootim]

Bit off on a tangent - but Phillips was talking about how robust the results of the survey were, because the method of data collection - face to face interviews, was far more reliable than telephone or internet answers. Maybe for many issues that is true, but for this I'm not sure. Surely the answers given by an 'typical' Muslim about sex outside marriage or womens rights would vary depending on whether the interviewer was for example a white woman in a low cut top or a Muslim in a burqa? due to 'code switching'

[sadoldgit]

you going to watch the programme SOG?

 

Sounds interesting, what was it called?

[whelk]

Sounds interesting, what was it called?

 

What British Muslims really think. 10pm CH4

 

http://bit.ly/1UW68aU

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Bit off on a tangent - but Phillips was talking about how robust the results of the survey were, because the method of data collection - face to face interviews, was far more reliable than telephone or internet answers. Maybe for many issues that is true, but for this I'm not sure. Surely the answers given by an 'typical' Muslim about sex outside marriage or womens rights would vary depending on whether the interviewer was for example a white woman in a low cut top or a Muslim in a burqa? due to 'code switching'

 

I've grown rather wary of all survey results remembering just how far wrong the pollsters were in predicting both the Scottish Independance Referendum and the last General Election results. Statisticians may disagree, but it seems to me that if you ask 1000 Muslims what they think - out of a population than may well be approaching 3 million now - then that represents a sample size of far less than a 0.1% - if my maths are correct.

[whelk]

I've grown rather wary of all survey results remembering just how far wrong the pollsters were in predicting both the Scottish Independance Referendum and the last General Election results. Statisticians may disagree, but it seems to me that if you ask 1000 Muslims what they think - out of a population than may well be approaching 3 million now - then that represents a sample size of far less than a 0.1% - if my maths are correct.

 

Or maybe you don't trust polls that don't back up your own self righteous opinions?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Or maybe you don't trust polls that don't back up your own self righteous opinions?

 

I like to think I'm more right than righteous ....

 

[CB Fry]

Trevor Phillips is certainly a media friendly character with a consistent agenda he is invariably seeking to promote to anyone who will listen. That agenda of course is that he thinks that the concept known as 'multiculturalism' - i.e. the idea that people from wildly different backgrounds and beliefs can live together harmoniously - is a fundamentaly flawed notion and that minority populations in British Society should somehow be encouraged to adandon their culteral heritage and instead conform to a rather vague concept he defines as "Britishness".

 

I can sympathise to a degree with him here because it would be wonderful if every Brit was indeed of a like-mind in their core beliefs and attitudes - however impossibly idealistic such a notion may be. However, it seems to me that the problem with his argument is surely that one of these core "britishness" values we are all supposed to share is a respect for everyone's freedom of expression and right to follow the religion of their choice. It is also worth pointing out that during Trevor Phillips's tenure as chair of the ECHR (Equality and Human Rights Commission) this organisation was mired in endless controversy and division - problems often put down to his leadership. The House of Lords once famously described aspects of his behavour at this time as being: "inappropriate and ill-advised".

 

But there is I think a certain 'seperataness' about how many Muslims in European society see the modern world when compared to the outlook of their more 'western' (and increasing secular) minded neighbours. I suspect this difference is more pronounced in the older generation, and perhaps in newcomers from adroad, rather than it is in second or third generation British Muslims born and raised here. Indeed, judged on how some Muslims reportedly view issues such as homosexuality (for example) then I'm reminded strongly of how many of the older generation British people that I grew up with once thought.

 

It may be that British Muslims are so much a different people from other groups in society, but rather just a generation or two behind us.

 

I'd recommend you try and read his analysis of the report that was in the Sunday Times yesterday, it goes some way of kibosh in the idea that it us just the old folk who don't integrate and there is no sign that the next generation are necessarily going to assimilate. It is, unfortunately, appearing to be more complicated than that.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't go into pages and pages of detail about every bad thing every Christian has ever done in the history of the earth so I imagine the entire piece of work will be dismissed by you and the other idiot on here.

[badgerx16]

"What some Muslims think of 'what British Muslims really think'"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36016708

[hypochondriac]

I wonder if those dismissing this piece of work on here would be doing the same thing had the report reached the opposite conclusions? I doubt it somehow..

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'd recommend you try and read his analysis of the report that was in the Sunday Times yesterday, it goes some way of kibosh in the idea that it us just the old folk who don't integrate and there is no sign that the next generation are necessarily going to assimilate. It is, unfortunately, appearing to be more complicated than that.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't go into pages and pages of detail about every bad thing every Christian has ever done in the history of the earth so I imagine the entire piece of work will be dismissed by you and the other idiot on here.

 

Obviously you will grab onto anything that you feel supports your viewpoint. I can understand this easily enough without finding it especially impressive. However, I will watch the forthcoming TV prorgramme of course. But in the meantime would you please either confim or refute reports that this survey asked a mere 1000 British Muslims their opinions?

[CB Fry]

Obviously you will grab onto anything that you feel supports your viewpoint. I can understand this easily enough without finding it especially impressive. However, I will watch the forthcoming TV prorgramme of course. But in the meantime would you please either confim or refute reports that this survey asked a mere 1000 British Muslims their opinions?

I can confirm that Trevor Phillips, the production team at Channel Four and the editorial team at the Sunday Times have all been seen eating Easter Eggs over the last couple of weeks, which makes them, unquestionably, Christians. Christians, I tell you, Christians. You'd think they'd stop after the Nazis what they definitely done but now this.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I can confirm that Trevor Phillips, the production team at Channel Four and the editorial team at the Sunday Times have all been seen eating Easter Eggs over the last couple of weeks, which makes them, unquestionably, Christians. Christians, I tell you, Christians. You'd think they'd stop after the Nazis what they definitely done but now this.

 

Oh I think you will find that Trevor Phillips is anything but a Nazi. Still awaiting answer to my question by the way - as you have read the article I would have thought that this should be a simple enough matter.

[CB Fry]

Oh I think you will find that Trevor Phillips is anything but a Nazi. Still awaiting answer to my question by the way - as you have read the article I would have thought that this should be a simple enough matter.

Why do I need to confirm or deny anything about the survey. You've clearly been reading about it too, so find out for yourself.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Why do I need to confirm or deny anything about the survey. You've clearly been reading about it too, so find out for yourself.

 

I ask this simple question because (as yet) I have only read about this survey via secondary scources - and they can be notoriously unreliable. So again, how large a sample size did this survey entail?

[CB Fry]

I ask this simple question because (as yet) I have only read about this survey via secondary scources - and they can be notoriously unreliable. So again, how large a sample size did this survey entail?

Pick a news report about the survey in your paper of choice - from The Guardian and the Independent to the Express and the Mail, or the BBC website if you like - and the information is there. You think all those various news agencies reporting a simple figure is "notoriously unreliable" then gawd knows how you even get out of bed in the morning.

 

The fact that you've already said the number makes the fact you are "asking a question" even more weird.

[Sour Mash]

I assume this programme is just the first in a long running series, to be followed by programmes on Hindus, Sikhs, Atheists in the coming weeks?

 

I hope this isn't a case of Channel 4 and Trevor Philips being their usual racist selves against Muslims.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Pick a news report about the survey in your paper of choice - from The Guardian and the Independent to the Express and the Mail, or the BBC website if you like - and the information is there. You think all those various news agencies reporting a simple figure is "notoriously unreliable" then gawd knows how you even get out of bed in the morning.

 

The fact that you've already said the number makes the fact you are "asking a question" even more weird.

 

So you are telling me then that 1000 is the correct numbr here?

 

I must say that your obvious reluctance to provide a simple answer, to what was afterall a perfectly straightforward question, comes across as being not a little odd. But there again, I can't be the only person on here to have noticed that that your side of the argument here does seem to have more than its fair share of abnormaly quarrelsome and ill-tempered induviduals.

[whelk]

Obviously you will grab onto anything that you feel supports your viewpoint. I can understand this easily enough without finding it especially impressive. However, I will watch the forthcoming TV prorgramme of course. But in the meantime would you please either confim or refute reports that this survey asked a mere 1000 British Muslims their opinions?

 

A mere? You understand the concept of samples I trust?

[CB Fry]

So you are telling me then that 1000 is the correct numbr here?

 

I must say that your obvious reluctance to provide a simple answer, to what was afterall a perfectly straightforward question, comes across as being not a little odd. But there again, I can't be the only person on here to have noticed that that your side of the argument here does seem to have more than its fair share of abnormaly quarrelsome and ill-tempered induviduals.

What's "my side of the argument"?

 

The fact that you need someone on a web forum to confirm a number you've already seen is the odd thing.

 

That survey has a sample comparable to any survey run by any research agency and used a face-to-face interview methodology so is as representative amd thorough as you'll get for any survey on anything outside of the census or an election which of course are themselves narrow in scope.

 

But because it doesn't spoonfeed your opinions straight back to you, you've already sneerily dismissed the sample as 'mere'.

 

Try opening your mind a little and steering clear of the obvious kneejerk, would be my advice.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

A mere? You understand the concept of samples I trust?

 

I "understand" that our Muslim population can be estimated to be in the region of some 3 million people now - based on the last (2011) census result and likely changes since then. Therefore, a survey of 1000 induviduals would need to be TRIPLED in size to reach 0.1% of that number.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

What's "my side of the argument"?

 

The fact that you need someone on a web forum to confirm a number you've already seen is the odd thing.

 

That survey has a sample comparable to any survey run by any research agency and used a face-to-face interview methodology so is as representative amd thorough as you'll get for any survey on anything outside of the census or an election which of course are themselves narrow in scope.

 

But because it doesn't spoonfeed your opinions straight back to you, you've already sneerily dismissed the sample as 'mere'.

 

Try opening your mind a little and steering clear of the obvious kneejerk, would be my advice.

 

Please expand on what you find so vey odd in asking a simple question on a forum of this nature as this seems unclear, if not rather strange. As for survey results in general, my advice to you would be to not place too much trust in their findings as the record does seem to indicate they are far from completly reliable.

 

Being so 'open minded' you might also consider Trevor Phillips's record here.

Edited 12 April, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[CB Fry]

A mere? You understand the concept of samples I trust?

 

I "understand" that our Muslim population can be estimated to be in the region of some 3 million people now - based on the last (2011) census result and likely changes since then. Therefore, a survey of 1000 induviduals would need to be TRIPLED in size to reach 0.1% of that number.

That's a no, then.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

That's a no, then.

 

No.

[CB Fry]

Please expand on what you find so vey odd in asking a simple question on a forum of this nature as this seems unclear, if not rather strange. As for survey results in general, my advice to you would be to not place too much trust in their findings as the record does seem to indicate they are far from completly reliable.

 

Being so 'open minded' you might also consider Trevor Phillips's record here.

Trevor Phillips has a long and proud record fighting racial hatred and inequality driven by racial discrimination so I'm happy to have him on my side of the debate, whatever that is. I bet he's been to a nativity play or two as well.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Trevor Phillips has a long and proud record fighting racial hatred and inequality driven by racial discrimination so I'm happy to have him on my side of the debate, whatever that is. I bet he's been to a nativity play or two as well.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

I'm not sure why nativity plays have suddenly become germane to this topic, but Phillips in indeed no friend of racism - far from it. But knowing so much about him you will agree that he is also a leading critic of multiculturalism and therefore someone with a agenda to promote.

Edited 12 April, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Batman]

I suspect that if this report looked like it would be saying there is no problem with the Muslim community, CEC and Soggy will be harping on about it every other post

 

 

but then, Trevor Phillips is clearly a racist, so best ignore his findings

[hypochondriac]

Please expand on what you find so vey odd in asking a simple question on a forum of this nature as this seems unclear, if not rather strange. As for survey results in general, my advice to you would be to not place too much trust in their findings as the record does seem to indicate they are far from completly reliable.

 

Being so 'open minded' you might also consider Trevor Phillips's record here.

So you'd be equally dismissive of surveys had this one come to opposite conclusions? Didn't think so...

[CB Fry]

I'm not sure why nativity plays have suddenly become germane to this topic, but Phillips in indeed no friend of racism - far from it. But knowing so much about him you will agree that he is also a leading critic of multiculturalism and therefore someone with a agenda to promote.

If you're going to dismiss Trevor Phillips as someone with an "agenda to promote" (equality of opportunity/social cohesion/the end of racial discrimination - how awful) then I heartily look forward to the next spokesman/representative you lean on or quote here.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

So you'd be equally dismissive of surveys had this one come to opposite conclusions? Didn't think so...

 

I don't dismiss the survey - I have not even seen it properly yet - but I do urge a degree of caution be applied when interpretating results. Do you disagree?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

If you're going to dismiss Trevor Phillips as someone with an "agenda to promote" (equality of opportunity/social cohesion/the end of racial discrimination - how awful) then I heartily look forward to the next spokesman/representative you lean on or quote here.

 

Almost everyone in the media has some sort of agenda to promote I suppose - and let's face it Trevor Phillips is no exception to that rule.

[hypochondriac]

I don't dismiss the survey - I have not even seen it properly yet - but I do urge a degree of caution be applied when interpretating results. Do you disagree?

You've been very dismissive considering you haven't even seen the survey - questioning the motives of Phillips and suggesting he has hidden agendas. Maybe best to actually read the survey and what it has to say before deciding all of this. One imagines you wouldn't be urging the same degree of caution had this survey agreed with your own opinions. The amount in the survey is broadly consistent with other surveys by the way. It's simply impractical to interview every Muslim as I'm sure you would agree.

[CB Fry]

Almost everyone in the media has some sort of agenda to promote I suppose - and let's face it Trevor Phillips is no exception to that rule.

Frankly it is bizarre to dismiss Trevor Phillips, a renowned equality campaigner as "someone with an agenda to promote" like he's some paid spokesman for big oil or the tobacco industry.

[Sour Mash]

Almost everyone in the media has some sort of agenda to promote I suppose - and let's face it Trevor Phillips is no exception to that rule.

Just keep that head of yours in the sand, your eyes closed and fingers in your ears and I reckon you'll be ok.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

You've been very dismissive considering you haven't even seen the survey - questioning the motives of Phillips and suggesting he has hidden agendas. Maybe best to actually read the survey and what it has to say before deciding all of this. One imagines you wouldn't be urging the same degree of caution had this survey agreed with your own opinions. The amount in the survey is broadly consistent with other surveys by the way. It's simply impractical to interview every Muslim as I'm sure you would agree.

 

Trevor Phillips's opposition to multiculterlism is quite open and not at all "hidden". I stand to be corrected of course but I belive my maths are correct here and that this survey involves a tiny percentage of our Muslim population - much less than 0.1% in fact. From that small percentage we are led to believe that most Muslims think that homosexuality should be illegal and wives should always obay their husbands .. etc .. etc.

 

If you understood the issue better then you might realise that these 'headline' conclusions the media habitually draw from polling are often misleading as surveys nearly always exclude (or "filter out") the 'don't knows' and 'won't answers" from their findings and very few ever take much notice of the ever present 'margin of error' implicit in all polling. Furthermore, the obvious failure of polls to acutely predict recent election results would seem to indicate that their reliablity is questionable at best.

 

But if you have some evidential basis for believing that this particular poll is more reliable than all the others then by all means present it and I shall happily consider the matter in due course.

Edited 12 April, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Just keep that head of yours in the sand, your eyes closed and fingers in your ears and I reckon you'll be ok.

 

Do you disagee that many in the press and broadcast media have their own agendas they are seeking to promote?

Edited 12 April, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Sour Mash]

Do you disagee that many in the press and broadcast media have their own agendas they are seeking to promote?

I'm sure lots have agendas.

 

Do you know when the programmes about Hindus or Sikhs are going to be on?

 

Why are Channel 4 and Trevor Philips being racist about Muslims?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Frankly it is bizarre to dismiss Trevor Phillips, a renowned equality campaigner as "someone with an agenda to promote" like he's some paid spokesman for big oil or the tobacco industry.

 

Again, Phillips not only has made a name for himself by oppossesing multiculterlism, he is quite open and unapologetic for this. So that would be a agenda then.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'm sure lots have agendas.

 

Do you know when the programmes about Hindus or Sikhs are going to be on?

 

Why are Channel 4 and Trevor Philips being racist about Muslims?

 

I understand the programme in question - What Muslims Really Think - will be broadcast on C4 tomorrow night.

[sadoldgit]

I suspect that if this report looked like it would be saying there is no problem with the Muslim community, CEC and Soggy will be harping on about it every other post

 

 

but then, Trevor Phillips is clearly a racist, so best ignore his findings

 

Please feel free to quote where anyone has said that there isn't a problem. There are many problems in the world but you seem to feel it is necessary to find evidence of problems with Muslims every day. It is nice that you have found something that supports your paranoia. A sample of 1000 out of a figure of over 1 billion people has really nailed it. I for one am going to stock up on tinned goods and put sandbags over the windows.

[hypochondriac]

Please feel free to quote where anyone has said that there isn't a problem. There are many problems in the world but you seem to feel it is necessary to find evidence of problems with Muslims every day. It is nice that you have found something that supports your paranoia. A sample of 1000 out of a figure of over 1 billion people has really nailed it. I for one am going to stock up on tinned goods and put sandbags over the windows.

There are indeed many problems in the world and there are many threads on here to discuss them. This thread however began talking about the Paris attacks and then moved on to discuss the motivations behind the attack as well as the problem of Islamic extremism. Whenever it is brought up though you go off on one about how there are loads of problem everywhere, how there are Christian extremists nazis etc etc etc.

 

Why is it so difficult to admit the problems here and discuss it without continually referring to other extremist groups and religions that no one has denied exists?

[sadoldgit]

What British Muslims really think. 10pm CH4

 

http://bit.ly/1UW68aU

 

Thank you. I shall watch it.

[sadoldgit]

There are indeed many problems in the world and there are many threads on here to discuss them. This thread however began talking about the Paris attacks and then moved on to discuss the motivations behind the attack as well as the problem of Islamic extremism. Whenever it is brought up though you go off on one about how there are loads of problem everywhere, how there are Christian extremists nazis etc etc etc.

 

Why is it so difficult to admit the problems here and discuss it without continually referring to other extremist groups and religions that no one has denied exists?

 

Going off on one? Why do you have to equate someone stating a view that you don't agree with have to be related in emotional terms? Anyway, I know what the thread was about because I started it. It was about a terrorist attack in Paris. No religion was mentioned initially but then it became about "Muslims." We have talked about many things which cast Islam as a whole in a negative light. "Muslim" rape gangs for example. Do we know that all of the accused were practising Muslims at the time of arrest? No matter, it was a "Muslim" rape gang. Holepuncture tells us to take care because Muslims are after us. Sour Mash doesn't think that Muslim immigrants have offered anything positive etc etc. This is not just about Muslim extremism (unfortunately) it is about Islam and "The West." We have ended up talking about Nazis and Christians and Nativity Plays (and somehow even Easter Eggs) because the point has rightly been made that evil is not the sole preserve of Islam. You say that you support moderate Muslims although it took you some time to start challenging the Islamophobes on here (it was even suggested that they didn't exist on here ). As you say, the discussion widened but there are some who still want to polarise issues down to Muslims. You might not agree, but there is a greater problem in this country with rapes by white males who may or may not be Christian. Batman goes out of his way to find a negative story about Muslims and for a period he was doing it every day. You didn't seem to have a problem with that yet you say you support moderate Muslims? Hmmm. Really? If you want to talk about a small percentage of people without a reference point to a wider world how aon earth do you think you are going to get any kind of perspective. Yes, some Muslims are terrorists, yes some Muslims commit sexual assaults, yes some Muslims break the law. It is not more likely to happen just because the person is a Muslim but to read some posts on here you would think that Islam is responsible for all of the evil in the world when if fact, mankind is responsible, no matter what race or creed. So if you support moderate peace abiding citizens why not save your barbed comments for those who have a problem with Islam?

[hypochondriac]

Going off on one? Why do you have to equate someone stating a view that you don't agree with have to be related in emotional terms? Anyway, I know what the thread was about because I started it. It was about a terrorist attack in Paris. No religion was mentioned initially but then it became about "Muslims." We have talked about many things which cast Islam as a whole in a negative light. "Muslim" rape gangs for example. Do we know that all of the accused were practising Muslims at the time of arrest? No matter, it was a "Muslim" rape gang. Holepuncture tells us to take care because Muslims are after us. Sour Mash doesn't think that Muslim immigrants have offered anything positive etc etc. This is not just about Muslim extremism (unfortunately) it is about Islam and "The West." We have ended up talking about Nazis and Christians and Nativity Plays (and somehow even Easter Eggs) because the point has rightly been made that evil is not the sole preserve of Islam. You say that you support moderate Muslims although it took you some time to start challenging the Islamophobes on here (it was even suggested that they didn't exist on here ). As you say, the discussion widened but there are some who still want to polarise issues down to Muslims. You might not agree, but there is a greater problem in this country with rapes by white males who may or may not be Christian. Batman goes out of his way to find a negative story about Muslims and for a period he was doing it every day. You didn't seem to have a problem with that yet you say you support moderate Muslims? Hmmm. Really? If you want to talk about a small percentage of people without a reference point to a wider world how aon earth do you think you are going to get any kind of perspective. Yes, some Muslims are terrorists, yes some Muslims commit sexual assaults, yes some Muslims break the law. It is not more likely to happen just because the person is a Muslim but to read some posts on here you would think that Islam is responsible for all of the evil in the world when if fact, mankind is responsible, no matter what race or creed. So if you support moderate peace abiding citizens why not save your barbed comments for those who have a problem with Islam?

 

Because that's exactly what you've done. Every time it's mentioned you start on a diatribe about evil Christians, nazis and other extremists. You seem incapable of discussing Islamic extremism and it's problems without first mentioning that there are problems with other faiths or in other areas of society. Every time. Despite not a single poster disagreeing with it. Are you naive enough to believe that a terrorist attack in Paris from Islamic state would not naturally evolve into a wider conversation about Islam? It's a message board and just because you started the thread doesn't mean you own all the content in it. The debate widened because it was always going to, not because everyone who disagrees with you is somehow racist or desperate to bash muslims as you like to believe.

 

Again, you seem to have a real problem with discussing Islamic extremism. What possible relevance do abhorrent rapists who may be white have to do with this? That is why people accuse you of being an apologist. All the rest of the guff about muslims being responsible for all evil in the world is complete and utter rubbish invented in your own head. Again.

 

I'm not sure what barbed comments you are referring to but I'm quite capable of calling out someone like Sour Mash when he says something Ill advised or that I disagree with and also call you out when you are being a buffoon. It's not like I have a finite number of barbed comments, you'll continue to receive my ire all the time you display your idiocy on this thread.

Edited 12 April, 2016 by hypochondriac

[sadoldgit]

So then, Trevor Phillips. He says there is a problem with Muslims "blending in." What does that mean exactly? Changing their diets? Changing their religion. Changing their clothes? Passing the Norman Tebbit Britishness test (which my wife would fail by the way as she knows nothing about cricket). I am sure many here have travelled to foreign cities and some may have enjoyed a nice Chinese meal in China Town in San Francisco or New York. Is that blending in by the Chinese? I am sure many spread out elsewhere and did get assimilated into North America but what of those who stayed put and built a Chinese community within the indigenous environment. How dare they? The need to blend in and look and behave like us. Just like the many Brit ex pats in Spain have done over the years...oh wait.

 

I have had a quick look at the poll and also read The Spectator article about it. I am not surprised by the figures and given the fuss Philips was making about the poll I expect them to be a lot worse. The only one that bothered me was the homosexuality response but then some become more enlightened more quickly than others and I would be interested to see the same poll in ten years time as I suspect the 52% would drop. It wasn't that long ago that we were still locking up "queers" and homosexuality was only decriminalised here in 1967 (although not in the Armed Forces). It only changed in Scotland in 1980 and in N Ireland in 1982. The Spectator (a publication that seems to have a problem with all Muslims, not just the extremists) also fell into the same trap as The Sun, by twisting the figures to make them look worse than they are. Instead of saying that 77% (which is a large figure in terms of polls) of British Muslims polled didn't support the idea of there being areas of the UK where sharia law is introduced instead of British law, it spun it so that 23% of Brit Muslims agreed. I was always taught to put the biggest figure first. In four examples from the poll the only larger figure used first is 52% think homosexuality should be illegal in the UK. Following their previous example I wonder why they didn't say that 48% of British Muslims thought that homosexuality should be criminalised? On that note, I also wonder what a poll of non Muslims would show? I doubt very much if you would get 100% agreeing that it shouldn't be a criminal offence.

 

Yes, there are problems in some areas concerning Muslim immigrants and we don't need Batman finding negative stories each day to remind us that things are not great. But we also need to keep some perspective on issues and to pretend that we are all at risk from an evil tide of Islamism is madness. There are plenty of migrants who go and live in other countries who don't "blend in" (there is a Jewish area in North London where the locals look like they have been stuck in a time warp) and why should they? So long as people abide by the laws of the countries they live in why should we expect them to turn into one of us to make them acceptable?

[Batman]

soggy cannot help himself but bring in other culture and beliefs into the argument. as he has just done once again, above

there is a problem of integration with parts of the muslim community here in the UK. ffs, even more Muslim themselves are coming about and saying it

[CB Fry]

I very nearly wrote a post this morning predicting that SOG would "analyse" the survey by switching the results round so it actually shows there's no problems whatsoever after all. If one in four want Sharia law in some areas that means THREE IN FOUR DON'T so that's all right then.

 

Needless to say he's done it for me. SOG - parodying himself since 2007.

[Sour Mash]

Going off on one? Why do you have to equate someone stating a view that you don't agree with have to be related in emotional terms? Anyway, I know what the thread was about because I started it. It was about a terrorist attack in Paris. No religion was mentioned initially but then it became about "Muslims." We have talked about many things which cast Islam as a whole in a negative light. "Muslim" rape gangs for example. Do we know that all of the accused were practising Muslims at the time of arrest? No matter, it was a "Muslim" rape gang. Holepuncture tells us to take care because Muslims are after us. Sour Mash doesn't think that Muslim immigrants have offered anything positive etc etc. This is not just about Muslim extremism (unfortunately) it is about Islam and "The West." We have ended up talking about Nazis and Christians and Nativity Plays (and somehow even Easter Eggs) because the point has rightly been made that evil is not the sole preserve of Islam. You say that you support moderate Muslims although it took you some time to start challenging the Islamophobes on here (it was even suggested that they didn't exist on here ). As you say, the discussion widened but there are some who still want to polarise issues down to Muslims. You might not agree, but there is a greater problem in this country with rapes by white males who may or may not be Christian. Batman goes out of his way to find a negative story about Muslims and for a period he was doing it every day. You didn't seem to have a problem with that yet you say you support moderate Muslims? Hmmm. Really? If you want to talk about a small percentage of people without a reference point to a wider world how aon earth do you think you are going to get any kind of perspective. Yes, some Muslims are terrorists, yes some Muslims commit sexual assaults, yes some Muslims break the law. It is not more likely to happen just because the person is a Muslim but to read some posts on here you would think that Islam is responsible for all of the evil in the world when if fact, mankind is responsible, no matter what race or creed. So if you support moderate peace abiding citizens why not save your barbed comments for those who have a problem with Islam?

Why have Channel 4 made this programme?

[sadoldgit]

soggy cannot help himself but bring in other culture and beliefs into the argument. as he has just done once again, above

there is a problem of integration with parts of the muslim community here in the UK. ffs, even more Muslim themselves are coming about and saying it

 

I am sorry but I didn't realise that it was a close discussion and that we could only discuss Muslims in total isolation. I assume the Muslims who have said there is a problem with integration (is that anything like "blending in?) have integrated or "blended in." Are we okay with those ones then Batman?