Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Sour Mash]

Muslim rape gangs? Surely you mean rape gangs?

No, I mean muslim rape gangs. Alternatively stick up a link to it happening every year in Cologne?

[Sour Mash]

'ang on, that can't be right. According to Sour, you can't be racist against Muslims.

Its not according to me, its a fact most people know.

[sadoldgit]

Yes I do realise. I also realise that it is a Hate Crime in this country if you slag off someone because of their RACE and or RELIGION.

 

Yes I do think Islamic culture is a good thing. Not just for Western Europe.

 

You need to divorce Islamic culture from the nutters who use Islam to excuse their barbaric behaviour.

[Sour Mash]

Yes I do realise. I also realise that it is a Hate Crime in this country if you slag off someone because of their RACE and or RELIGION.

 

Yes I do think Islamic culture is a good thing. Not just for Western Europe.

 

You need to divorce Islamic culture from the nutters who use Islam to excuse their barbaric behaviour.

What is good about it? How have we benefited?

[hypochondriac]

I waas talking about the article I posted re racism and Islam. You are very touchy aren't you.

 

Ask idiotic questions and you'll receive a barbed response. You get a lot of barbed responses from me.

[TwoPints]

No, it wasn't a direct response to my question. It was a closed question, the only direct response was either a "yes" or "no".

No. That's incorrect. A closed question doesn't demand either a 'yes' or 'no' answer. You're making things up again.

 

Still no answer to the question of what is it you're afraid of with living in the close proximity of a Muslim community then.

[Sour Mash]

No. That's incorrect. A closed question doesn't demand either a 'yes' or 'no' answer. You're making things up again.

 

Still no answer to the question of what is it you're afraid of with living in the close proximity of a Muslim community then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-ended_question Unlucky Champ. But thanks for your meandering story about your day out.

 

I'm not afraid of living close to a muslim community (apart from the chance of terrorism, but I know you like to ignore that).

[TwoPints]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-ended_question Unlucky Champ. But thanks for your meandering story about your day out.

 

I'm not afraid of living close to a muslim community (apart from the chance of terrorism, but I know you like to ignore that).

Maybe it's me looking at that on my phone but I can't see any reference to that saying the answer must be 'yes' or 'no' . Keep trying though.

[Verbal]

What is good about it? How have we benefited?

 

This is no doubt going to teach you to suck eggs, but we're all standing on the shoulders of giants to be where we are - and in terms of the visual arts, a vital part of what we call western culture, some of those giants are Muslims.

 

For example, Florentine Renaissance art was revolutionary because of its incorporation of two things: perspective and volume (the latter achieved through chiaroscuro lighting). Combined, they were revolutionary because they allowed the illusion of a 3-D image on a 2-D surface (the canvas). These principles were later refined in the paintings of the late-Renaissance Dutch master Vermeer (who according to many experts, including David Hockney, used a camera obscura to render perspective precisely), and they still apply today in literally everything you see at the cinema.

 

Where did these ideas comes from? They began with the publication of the seven-volume 'Book of Optics' by the 11th century Arab scholar Alhazen. He was born in Basra, now in southern Iraq, and developed his mathematical idea during the Fatimid dynasty in Cairo (which of course you'll know all about). The book was translated into Italian - importantly, not Latin - just as the Renaissance was getting underway. His work in optics included the first mathematical formulation of how the camera obscura worked, and they still hold true today.

 

Alhazen didn't spring from nowhere as a stand-alone genius. Much of his work draws on Euclidian geometry, and his cosmology was deeply influenced by Ptolemy. But as you know, the Ptolemaic system was supplanted by Copernicanism - yet the interesting thing is Alhazen had spotted many of the mathematical flaws with Ptolemy's picture of the universe long before Copernicus and Galileo. And you'll find Alhazen's influence in the work of the great European scientists Isaac Newton, Gottfried Leibnitz and (I hardly need tell you) Robert Hooke.

 

So the bigger picture is this: as this one case shows, the influence of Muslim scholarship on western culture and science was profound, but those same Muslim scholars were drawing on ideas, many of which originated in ancient Greece (Euclid and Aristotle, for example). Which means we arrive at the happy conclusion that classical Greco-Roman culture, Muslim-Arabic science, and western culture and science are all intimately inter-linked.

 

So next time you go to the National Gallery or the Science Museum, fighting your way through all those nasty brown and black faces, face East and give a little prayer of thanks.

[shirleysfc]

So still no answer.

 

How have I not answered you?

 

FWIW you still haven't answered my question from Saturday. There's no surprise there though.

[shirleysfc]

...

Edited 6 April, 2016 by shirleysfc

[Sour Mash]

But you wouldn't want it to happen would you? Or a less extreme example would you like your area to become like Molenbeek, parts of Paris, London and Birmingham, Luton, Bradford?

 

No. That's incorrect. A closed question doesn't demand either a 'yes' or 'no' answer. You're making things up again.

 

Still no answer to the question of what is it you're afraid of with living in the close proximity of a Muslim community then.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-ended_question Unlucky Champ. But thanks for your meandering story about your day out.

 

Maybe it's me looking at that on my phone but I can't see any reference to that saying the answer must be 'yes' or 'no' . Keep trying though.

A closed question doesn't have to be a yes or no answer, it is framed and limited by the question. So, to the closed question, "do you prefer green or blue"? You have two, maybe three choices, "green" or "blue", maybe "don't know".

 

To the closed question "Or a less extreme example would you like your area to become like Molenbeek, parts of Paris, London and Birmingham, Luton, Bradford"? you have the choice of answers "yes", "no" or "don't know".

 

Not hard to understand for most people, but you've really struggled to get your head around it.

 

Have you been for any nice days out anywhere else recently?

[Sour Mash]

This is no doubt going to teach you to suck eggs, but we're all standing on the shoulders of giants to be where we are - and in terms of the visual arts, a vital part of what we call western culture, some of those giants are Muslims.

 

For example, Florentine Renaissance art was revolutionary because of its incorporation of two things: perspective and volume (the latter achieved through chiaroscuro lighting). Combined, they were revolutionary because they allowed the illusion of a 3-D image on a 2-D surface (the canvas). These principles were later refined in the paintings of the late-Renaissance Dutch master Vermeer (who according to many experts, including David Hockney, used a camera obscura to render perspective precisely), and they still apply today in literally everything you see at the cinema.

 

Where did these ideas comes from? They began with the publication of the seven-volume 'Book of Optics' by the 11th century Arab scholar Alhazen. He was born in Basra, now in southern Iraq, and developed his mathematical idea during the Fatimid dynasty in Cairo (which of course you'll know all about). The book was translated into Italian - importantly, not Latin - just as the Renaissance was getting underway. His work in optics included the first mathematical formulation of how the camera obscura worked, and they still hold true today.

 

Alhazen didn't spring from nowhere as a stand-alone genius. Much of his work draws on Euclidian geometry, and his cosmology was deeply influenced by Ptolemy. But as you know, the Ptolemaic system was supplanted by Copernicanism - yet the interesting thing is Alhazen had spotted many of the mathematical flaws with Ptolemy's picture of the universe long before Copernicus and Galileo. And you'll find Alhazen's influence in the work of the great European scientists Isaac Newton, Gottfried Leibnitz and (I hardly need tell you) Robert Hooke.

 

So the bigger picture is this: as this one case shows, the influence of Muslim scholarship on western culture and science was profound, but those same Muslim scholars were drawing on ideas, many of which originated in ancient Greece (Euclid and Aristotle, for example). Which means we arrive at the happy conclusion that classical Greco-Roman culture, Muslim-Arabic science, and western culture and science are all intimately inter-linked.

 

So next time you go to the National Gallery or the Science Museum, fighting your way through all those nasty brown and black faces, face East and give a little prayer of thanks.

So nothing from the Islamic immigration into Western Europe. Thought not.

[Sour Mash]

How have I not answered you?

No, but give it a go whenever you fancy.

[sadoldgit]

So nothing from the Islamic immigration into Western Europe. Thought not.

 

Let me get this right, you really don't think that we have benefitted from Muslim immigrants, or any other migrants come to that?

[sadoldgit]

Ask idiotic questions and you'll receive a barbed response. You get a lot of barbed responses from me.

 

It isn't my fault you couldn't understand what I was talking about. I get a lot of barbed responses from you because you seem to have issues. Read the argument yet?

[sadoldgit]

What is good about it? How have we benefited?

 

Let me help you out here - immigration has been going on since time began and if you read any history you will see quite clearly the benefits that migration has had for virtually everywhere in the world. There was a very interesting programme about the Vikings the other night and how important their migration was to the rest of the world. I cant be arsed to talk about one set in isolation because the UK has benefitted from so many migrants over the years...Celts, Angles, Saxons, Vikings, Romans, Normans, Eastern Europeans, Africans, Asians etc. To say that Muslims (in all their racial incarnations) have not benefitted the countries into which they have moved is nonsense. Once again, you are confusing a small percentage of nutters with well over 1 billion peaceful people.

[hypochondriac]

It isn't my fault you couldn't understand what I was talking about. I get a lot of barbed responses from you because you seem to have issues. Read the argument yet?

 

This is what I mean. You write something idiotic, I flag it up and then you pretend that I didn't understand what you were talking about. There was nothing to misunderstand, it was just a stupid question. Again.

[Sour Mash]

Just another day, another 'one-off'. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/658770/Man-admits-murdering-shopkeeper-Asad-Shah-for-disrespecting-Islam

[Sour Mash]

Let me help you out here - immigration has been going on since time began and if you read any history you will see quite clearly the benefits that migration has had for virtually everywhere in the world. There was a very interesting programme about the Vikings the other night and how important their migration was to the rest of the world. I cant be arsed to talk about one set in isolation because the UK has benefitted from so many migrants over the years...Celts, Angles, Saxons, Vikings, Romans, Normans, Eastern Europeans, Africans, Asians etc. To say that Muslims (in all their racial incarnations) have not benefitted the countries into which they have moved is nonsense. Once again, you are confusing a small percentage of nutters with well over 1 billion peaceful people.

I've got a reasonable understanding of British history thanks.

 

Now can you answer the question?

[solentstars]

Let me help you out here - immigration has been going on since time began and if you read any history you will see quite clearly the benefits that migration has had for virtually everywhere in the world. There was a very interesting programme about the Vikings the other night and how important their migration was to the rest of the world. I cant be arsed to talk about one set in isolation because the UK has benefitted from so many migrants over the years...Celts, Angles, Saxons, Vikings, Romans, Normans, Eastern Europeans, Africans, Asians etc. To say that Muslims (in all their racial incarnations) have not benefitted the countries into which they have moved is nonsense. Once again, you are confusing a small percentage of nutters with well over 1 billion peaceful people.

i thought you would have gave up with him and his silly rants by now and visions of scapegoating a whole group from a few nutters ,just reminds me of the 1930s when hitler and his gang labeling all jews the same way to pave their way to power.

[TwoPints]

A closed question doesn't have to be a yes or no answer, it is framed and limited by the question. So, to the closed question, "do you prefer green or blue"? You have two, maybe three choices, "green" or "blue", maybe "don't know".

 

To the closed question "Or a less extreme example would you like your area to become like Molenbeek, parts of Paris, London and Birmingham, Luton, Bradford"? you have the choice of answers "yes", "no" or "don't know".

 

Not hard to understand for most people, but you've really struggled to get your head around it.

 

Have you been for any nice days out anywhere else recently?

 

Wrong again. The purpose of a well worded closed question is to try and elicit a short response from the respondent. It doesn't obligate the respondent to give a short answer. In this case, a short answer wouldn't have provided the full response that I wanted to give and therefore you got a long answer (whether you wanted it or not) which justified my answer to your question as well as just answering it. Whilst you're trawling the internet to find a page on closed questions that suits your argument (I see that an unverified wikipedia page is the best you can manage so far) you might want to do some research on how to word your questions better if you just want 'yes' or 'no' answers.

 

I haven't been on any other days out recently but, unlike yourself and your constant fear of being a victim of a terrorist attack, I wouldn't fear going anywhere in Europe, including the list of places in your earlier post. When I do go, I'll let you know how I get on as no doubt they will be just as enjoyable as my previous days out.

[TwoPints]

i thought you would have gave up with him and his silly rants by now and visions of scapegoating a whole group from a few nutters ,just reminds me of the 1930s when hitler and his gang labeling all jews the same way to pave their way to power.

 

I think this is good advice. He loves the attention of all the right minded people on here arguing with him over his silly rants and when it starts to go quiet he just pops up with another islamaphobic post to fuel the flames again. I think it's best to just ignore him as this thread has moved a long way away from its original purpose into one where Sour can spout his bile and watch the reaction. Many pages ago, someone gave me that advice and I wish I'd taken it then to be honest.

[sadoldgit]

This is what I mean. You write something idiotic, I flag it up and then you pretend that I didn't understand what you were talking about. There was nothing to misunderstand, it was just a stupid question. Again.

 

Oh dear. I didn't write anything idiotic. I posted an argument about Islam and Racism and asked if you hade read it as you seem to think they are separate issue. You clearly didn't understand what I was talking about because you completely ignored the article and went off on one about, I assume, reading the thread. Not my fault. Read it yet?

[sadoldgit]

I've got a reasonable understanding of British history thanks.

 

Now can you answer the question?

 

I am sorry Sour Mash, you seem so entrenched in your hatred of Muslims that you don't seem able or prepared to accept that actually most of them are decent people and those who are British along with those who come here from abroad help to enrich our society. You asked earlier if I had a problem living with a mosque on every corner etc. I have spent three very happy holidays in SW Turkey and I can tell you now that I would quite happily retire there. The people were incredibly friendly and couldn't do enough for me and my family. It was a pleasant change to be in a place without religious bigots. We were welcomed into mosques and couldn't have been made more welcome. Oh and we spent some time seeing how they made their famous carpets - you know, the carpets that many people in the West like to buy and use in their homes. Just one small thing that muslims have provided us with to enrich our lives. I bet even you could come up with other things if you really tried!

[solentstars]

I think this is good advice. He loves the attention of all the right minded people on here arguing with him over his silly rants and when it starts to go quiet he just pops up with another islamaphobic post to fuel the flames again. I think it's best to just ignore him as this thread has moved a long way away from its original purpose into one where Sour can spout his bile and watch the reaction. Many pages ago, someone gave me that advice and I wish I'd taken it then to be honest.

yep i sussed him out ages ago ,in my day they used to be called rabble rousers....or bigots.

[sadoldgit]

No, I mean muslim rape gangs. Alternatively stick up a link to it happening every year in Cologne?

 

There is an article in the Independent that you need to read. I will post it when I find it. As for "muslim rape gangs - it is my understanding that the people that carried out the sexual assaults in Cologne were drunk. It is also my understanding that practicing muslims do not drink. Also I am having trouble finding out the numbers charged with rape. There was a high profile case of one rape that was later discredited as the person made it up. Anyway, read the article, it might help you get things into perspective.

 

Here it is http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cologne-sex-assaults-muslim-rape-myths-fit-a-neo-nazi-agenda-a6872566.html

 

And you will note that they talk about "refugees" not "muslims."

Edited 6 April, 2016 by sadoldgit
addition

[Batman]

There is an article in the Independent that you need to read. I will post it when I find it. As for "muslim rape gangs - it is my understanding that the people that carried out the sexual assaults in Cologne were drunk. It is also my understanding that practicing muslims do not drink. Also I am having trouble finding out the numbers charged with rape. There was a high profile case of one rape that was later discredited as the person made it up. Anyway, read the article, it might help you get things into perspective.

 

Here it is http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cologne-sex-assaults-muslim-rape-myths-fit-a-neo-nazi-agenda-a6872566.html

 

And you will note that they talk about "refugees" not "muslims."

 

does that now mean hitler was not a christian?

[TwoPints]

I am sorry Sour Mash, you seem so entrenched in your hatred of Muslims that you don't seem able or prepared to accept that actually most of them are decent people and those who are British along with those who come here from abroad help to enrich our society. You asked earlier if I had a problem living with a mosque on every corner etc. I have spent three very happy holidays in SW Turkey and I can tell you now that I would quite happily retire there. The people were incredibly friendly and couldn't do enough for me and my family. It was a pleasant change to be in a place without religious bigots. We were welcomed into mosques and couldn't have been made more welcome. Oh and we spent some time seeing how they made their famous carpets - you know, the carpets that many people in the West like to buy and use in their homes. Just one small thing that muslims have provided us with to enrich our lives. I bet even you could come up with other things if you really tried!

 

Now you've done it ... he can only cope with 'yes' or 'no' answers and is not interested in hearing about experiences of what decent people the vast majority of Muslims are.

[Verbal]

So nothing from the Islamic immigration into Western Europe. Thought not.

 

There's definitely something wrong with you.

 

You didn't ask about "Islamic immigration into Western Europe". You asked about Muslim culture. I gave an answer to that question.

 

As for the contributions of immigrants, I already dealt with this in post 2148:

 

As clearly your skin crawls in the presence of black and Asian faces, I'd recommend you don't open this link - a very limited list of prominent Muslims in the UK alone. You can deduce their 'benefit' to the UK from their titles.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Muslims

 

There are plenty of other lists, plenty of other names, plenty of other benefits. Your question is really beneath contempt.

 

To which your response was "still obsessed I see."

 

Pathetic.

 

So if there's anyone avoiding issues on here, it's you. And the reason you avoid them is clearly because you suffer from a particularly creepy form of racism.

[sadoldgit]

does that now mean hitler was not a christian?

 

[Sour Mash]

There's definitely something wrong with you.

 

You didn't ask about "Islamic immigration into Western Europe". You asked about Muslim culture. I gave an answer to that question.

 

As for the contributions of immigrants, I already dealt with this in post 2148:

 

 

 

To which your response was "still obsessed I see."

 

Pathetic.

 

So if there's anyone avoiding issues on here, it's you. And the reason you avoid them is clearly because you suffer from a particularly creepy form of racism.

Good to see you're aware of obsession, first step in dealing with it I guess. How's the counselling going?

[Sour Mash]

Wrong again. The purpose of a well worded closed question is to try and elicit a short response from the respondent. It doesn't obligate the respondent to give a short answer. In this case, a short answer wouldn't have provided the full response that I wanted to give and therefore you got a long answer (whether you wanted it or not) which justified my answer to your question as well as just answering it. Whilst you're trawling the internet to find a page on closed questions that suits your argument (I see that an unverified wikipedia page is the best you can manage so far) you might want to do some research on how to word your questions better if you just want 'yes' or 'no' answers.

 

I haven't been on any other days out recently but, unlike yourself and your constant fear of being a victim of a terrorist attack, I wouldn't fear going anywhere in Europe, including the list of places in your earlier post. When I do go, I'll let you know how I get on as no doubt they will be just as enjoyable as my previous days out.

Unfortunately for you, the question wasn't about whether the question was well worded or not, it was a closed question, with the options of "yes", "no" and "don't know". You haven't managed any of them.

[Sour Mash]

I am sorry Sour Mash, you seem so entrenched in your hatred of Muslims that you don't seem able or prepared to accept that actually most of them are decent people and those who are British along with those who come here from abroad help to enrich our society. You asked earlier if I had a problem living with a mosque on every corner etc. I have spent three very happy holidays in SW Turkey and I can tell you now that I would quite happily retire there. The people were incredibly friendly and couldn't do enough for me and my family. It was a pleasant change to be in a place without religious bigots. We were welcomed into mosques and couldn't have been made more welcome. Oh and we spent some time seeing how they made their famous carpets - you know, the carpets that many people in the West like to buy and use in their homes. Just one small thing that muslims have provided us with to enrich our lives. I bet even you could come up with other things if you really tried!

Ok, you're not going to answer my question, fair enough.

 

You say that Turkey has no "religious bigots" in comparison. Tell us about the big proportions of Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, non-Sunni Muslims that are living in turkey, compared to the UK?

[hutch]

Muslim rape gangs? Surely you mean rape gangs?

And Rotherham? Oxford? Bradford? Aylesbury? Derby?.... Need I go on?

 

Muslim rape gangs.

[whelk]

There is an article in the Independent that you need to read. I will post it when I find it. As for "muslim rape gangs - it is my understanding that the people that carried out the sexual assaults in Cologne were drunk. It is also my understanding that practicing muslims do not drink. Also I am having trouble finding out the numbers charged with rape. There was a high profile case of one rape that was later discredited as the person made it up. Anyway, read the article, it might help you get things into perspective.

 

Here it is http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cologne-sex-assaults-muslim-rape-myths-fit-a-neo-nazi-agenda-a6872566.html

 

And you will note that they talk about "refugees" not "muslims."

 

Practicing Christians don't create death camps.

 

That article is quite slanted and someone with your views are more than happy to believe it. Equally someone with Sour Mash's views will more than happily lap up a scare story from the Daily Mail demonising them.

 

Implying no prosecutions as if it were all a figment of imagination. Are you happy to believe all the German New Years eve reporting was press with an agenda?

 

There is no equivalent of Goebbels pushing propaganda through the media as far as I am aware.

Edited 7 April, 2016 by whelk

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It's ridiculous to say that no Muslims have had any positive impact on Britain. It's equally ridiculous to label clearly prejudiced remarks against muslims as racist. Sour Mash had made clear Islamaphobic remarks and many comments that I consider to be ill advised and demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding Muslims. Just call it what it is rather than trying to twist the definition of race or putting up articles claiming there is no such thing as race to try to brand someone a racist, it does the opposing argument no favours.

 

But this is not of question of one person being unfairly branded as a racist as he continues to display racist attitudes on a daily basis and can be said to have "outed" himself in that regard. Although he will no doubt continue to deny this these repeated denials are incompatible with his stated opinions and therefore meaningless. The record also shows that, when cornered, he will revert to outright lies, or even feign some form of amnesia that seems highly selective in its effect. I (and others) find this type of behaviour to be utterly contemptible.

 

I have explained the concept of "culteral racism" at some length now. If you either don't understand, or perhaps don't agree with, the concept then that is a matter for you. However, the idea itself cannot be glibly dismissed as "ridiculous" or for that matter as being something of my invention. Attempts to avoid the charge of racism mearly by stating that Muslims are not a "race" so therefore his dislike of the Asians he has to live ammong is not racism represent a obvious attempt at avoidance or even sophistry.

 

As for the concept of "race" itself being a debatable intellectual construct, I can only repeat that this conclusion is indeed the prevailing scientific consenus on the issue. All individuals (identical twins excepted of course) exhibit their own unique DNA sequences, but when examined on a larger scale the differences between regional populations are superficial from a scientific perspective - i.e. there is only one Human Race and we are ALL Homo Sapiens

 

.

Edited 7 April, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[sadoldgit]

Practicing Christians don't create death camps.

 

That article is quite slanted and someone with your views are more than happy to believe it. Equally someone with Sour Mash's views will more than happily lap up a scare story from the Daily Mail demonising them.

 

Implying no prosecutions as if it were all a figment of imagination. Are you happy to believe all the German New Years eve reporting was press with an agenda?

 

There is no equivalent of Goebbels pushing propaganda through the media as far as I am aware.

 

Although you say that practicing Christians don't create death camps there were plenty who worked in who were "only obeying orders," There we also plenty of practicing Jews who worked with the Nazis in the camps.

[sadoldgit]

And Rotherham? Oxford? Bradford? Aylesbury? Derby?.... Need I go on?

 

Muslim rape gangs.

 

So why don't we call those nicked under Operation Yew Tree Christian Rape Gangs?

[sadoldgit]

Ok, you're not going to answer my question, fair enough.

 

You say that Turkey has no "religious bigots" in comparison. Tell us about the big proportions of Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, non-Sunni Muslims that are living in turkey, compared to the UK?

 

No you are absolutely right, we have not benefitted from Muslim immigrants at all whereas we have benefitted plenty from all of the millions of other immigrants who have come here!

 

Ok, if it shuts you up - Tipu Zahed Aziz, Professor of Neurosurgery at John Radcliffe Hospital - Rozina Ali, microvascular reconstructive plastic surgeon - Hasnat Khan, heart and lung surgeon - Asif Chaudry, surgical oncologist with an interest in gastrointestinal cancer - Abu Easa Niamatullah, qualified pharmasist and anthropologist member of the World Economic Forum initiative. I could go on if I had more time but to be honest its a bit like "What Did The Romans Ever Do For Us."

 

I didn't say that there were no religious bigots in Turkey, just that I didn't come across any in my travels. You must be finding it very difficult to find somewhere to live in this country where there is no input from Muslims.

Edited 7 April, 2016 by sadoldgit

[hutch]

So why don't we call those nicked under Operation Yew Tree Christian Rape Gangs?

Are you denying that there is a specific problem with British men of Pakistani descent grooming young white girls for sex? Or Afghans? Or Arabs?

 

What these men do is a form of racism that's abhorrent in a civilised society.

[sadoldgit]

Are you denying that there is a specific problem with British men of Pakistani descent grooming young white girls for sex? Or Afghans? Or Arabs?

 

What these men do is a form of racism that's abhorrent in a civilised society.

 

I am not sure why you are getting worked up about a religion when it is very clear that men of many races and religions carry out sexual abuse. It is all abhorrent isn't it? Or is it less so if carried out by Christians? Were the likes if Jimmy Savile and Adam Johnson muslims?

[hutch]

I am not sure why you are getting worked up about a religion.

 

I'm not. Those aren't my opinions, they are the opnions of Jack Straw, former Home Secretary, Sir Martin Nairey, former CEO of Barnardos and Mohammed Shafiq, director of the Muslim Ramadan Foundation. But you go on ahead and keep sweeping it under the carpet and hope it will go away.

 

Did you now that young white British girls are 10 times more likely to be illegally groomed for sex by young Asian men than by any others, even though these men only make up around 5% of the population?

 

Using the forum's favourite statistical manipulation, that means that per capita Asian men are 200 times more likely to commit the offence than others.

 

Given that tens of thousands of young girls have been abused, do you not think that is a problem?

[sadoldgit]

You said Asian men, earlier you were accusing Muslim men?

[sadoldgit]

This from the Ministry of Justice dated June 2014. "As of 31 March 2014, the latest point in time for which data is available for public use, the male prison population in England and Wales for all offenders serving immediate custodial sentences for rape was 5,682. Of this, there were 676 offenders who self-declared their religion as Muslim (12% of the total).

[hypochondriac]

And only 4.5% of the uk population...

 

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[sadoldgit]

Not sure what you point is? The vast majority of rapists currently serving time in prison are not Muslim. Is that your point?

[whelk]

SOG standard response. Don't actually profile anything or suggest pattern to problems which anyone of intelligence acknowledges. Natural to say hey what about Jimmy Saville.

 

No doubt if you were a social worker and had a 14 yo report something you would dismiss her as a racist fantasist and quote prison stats to her.

Edited 7 April, 2016 by whelk

[van Hanegem]

So the bigger picture is this: as this one case shows, the influence of Muslim scholarship on western culture and science was profound, but those same Muslim scholars were drawing on ideas, many of which originated in ancient Greece (Euclid and Aristotle, for example). Which means we arrive at the happy conclusion that classical Greco-Roman culture, Muslim-Arabic science, and western culture and science are all intimately inter-linked.

 

Great post Verbal, you're referring to the golden age of islam and that must have been a wonderful time. It is said that even the European Enlightenment owes a great deal to the Moors who even allowed Jews to walk around freely as they understood "business" had to go on. Too bad it all ended and stuff like the jihad and sharia took over in the 13th century, nothing good came out of this up to this day. I reckon this aspiration to find the "pure faith" has blocked the way to separation between the temporal and spiritual power like christianity did find. With the "political islam" ruling muslims be aware that they form a collective from which there is no escape, you'll be an outcast when you want out. Of course there are more than enough muslims in Europe who are kind individuals seeking their own way but more and more you hear about the sharia claiming it's role, especially amongst Sunni's. To me this is a clear and present danger to European norms and values as there are many things within the sharia which are opposing our liberal way of life. I do believe there's a connection between the rise of jihad and sharia in Europe and the troubled youngsters who are willing to blow themselves to pieces. I can't understand why governments of European countries don't act on this, especially England which even allows shariacouncils. What's your view on this?

[sadoldgit]

SOG standard response. Don't actually profile anything or suggest pattern to problems which anyone of intelligence acknowledges. Natural to say hey what about Jimmy Saville.

 

No doubt if you were a social worker and had a 14 yo report something you would dismiss her as a racist fantasist and quote prison stats to her.

 

Come on now Whelk, are you really happy with the inference that somehow rapes carried out by some who may (or may not be) Muslims are somehow more of a problem than rapes carried out by others? The pattern that you are looking for is that more non Muslims than Muslims commit rapes.