Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Not my point. Chapel End Charlie says it is racist to be critical of such behaviour - I'm just asking which race are those who criticise racist against?

 

An elderly goldfish suffering from Alzheimer's then.

[Sour Mash]

One of the problems of conversing with you is that you appear to have the memory capacity of a elderly goldfish. Please try to remember that I have alreadty told you that I believe there is only one race.

 

And still no answer.

[Sour Mash]

Ummm, yes it was your point. It was your post that posted the link.

 

Whatever you want to call it, whether it's islamaphobia, xenophobia or just plain racism, in my opinion, and clearly the opinion of others, some of your posts have crossed the line. You know it, I know it and clearly others do too. Trying to hide behind a narrow definition of racism does you no favours.

 

I note you've dodged another question by the way, this time from Chapel End. It's a shame as your response might have helped to clarify your position on Muslims in the UK. You could quite easily say that you think Muslims have had a beneficial impact on the UK, you were after all provided with a very long list of Muslims that have contributed greatly to the UK before you subtly changed your question, but you don't seem able to bring yourself to do that. Why is that do you think?

 

So, which race?

 

Of course, I get it though, anyone that doesn't want their town or city taken over by Islam is a racist. I guess you hope if you close your eyes and say it over and over, one day people might stop pointing out the impact of Islam in Western Europe. Until then, you're out of luck I'm afraid.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

And still no answer.

 

The only person on here avoiding questions would be you.

 

So again, did you or did you not claim, or at least imply, that Muslims make no positive contribution to British Society? If you do finaly conceed this point - and surely you must becaue it is true - then how on Earth would such a opinion differ from racism?

[Sour Mash]

Can you confirm which race the people in this story are?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519519/Muslim-Patrol-jailed-harassing-couple-holding-hands-men-drinking-bid-enforce-Sharia-law-East-London.html

 

So no examples. Just in the same way you couldn't find any examples of racist posts. Not very good at this are you?

 

And having to have basic terms and definitions explained to you, I didn't need google or Wikipedia for that, sounds like you could use as much help as you can find though.

 

And it all boils back down to my original point - the likes of you trying to shut down those pointing out the negative impact of Islam on Western Europe, so desperate you are to quieten such criticism, you cry "racism", make up definitions, post insults, anything to hide the issue that is being discussed. Why you're so desperate to cover these issues up, only you know I guess, don't understand or really care about the issue perhaps.

 

So still no answers to any of the questions or provision of any examples.

 

Still no explanation as to why you're so desperate to close down any criticism of Islam's impact on the west. Odd, but maybe it just doesn't bother you.

 

The only person on here avoiding questions would be you.

 

So again, did you or did you not claim, or at least imply, that Muslims make no positive contribution to British Society? If you do finaly conceed this point - and surely you must becaue it is true - then how on Earth would such a opinion differ from racism?

 

So still no answers or examples, just all a bit empty really.

 

Another question for you to not answer - why do you think people of Western Europe should be happy having their towns and cities taken over by Islam? Let's see how long you take to answer that.

 

And no, I did not claim that Muslims make no positive contribution to British society, unlucky chap.

 

And which race am I racist against?

 

My bet is no answers as usual.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

So still no answers or examples, just all a bit empty really.

 

Another question for you to not answer - why do you think people of Western Europe should be happy having their towns and cities taken over by Islam? Let's see how long you take to answer that.

 

And no, I did not claim that Muslims make no positive contribution to British society, unlucky chap.

 

And which race am I racist against?

 

My bet is no answers as usual.

 

So there we have it. The forum will see that Sour is now on the record for everyone to see claiming that he never said that Muslims make no worthwhile contribution to our society - this despite the fact that numerous people can recall him stating (or at the very least implying) exactly that.

 

In all my years on here I can recall no more disgraceful lie being posted on here. I for one hold the person in question in utter contempt and fully expect that reacton to be a commonplace one from all on here who retain any respect for the truth.

[Sour Mash]

So there we have it. The forum will see that Sour is now on the record for everyone to see claiming that he never said that Muslims make no worthwhile contribution to our society - this despite the fact that numerous people can recall him stating (or at the very least implying) exactly that.

 

In all my years on here I can recall no more disgraceful lie being posted on here. I for one hold the person in question in utter contempt and fully expect that reacton to be a commonplace one from all on here who retain any respect for the truth.

. You properly crack me up.

 

Still no links, examples or answers, but that's to be expected by now.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

. You properly crack me up.

 

Still no links, examples or answers, but that's to be expected by now.

 

You are exposed as both a racist and a liar. Therefore any further posts from you are of no real significance as you retain ZERO credibilty on this forum.

 

So in a sense "my work here is done" - but being the stubbon type I'll happily bait you for a while yet if you insist.

[Sour Mash]

You are exposed as both a racist and a liar. Therefore any further posts from you are of no real significance as you retain ZERO credibilty on this forum.

 

So in a sense "my work here is done" - but being the stubbon type I'll happily bait you for a while yet if you insist.

 

Still no answers. The silence is deafening.

 

Just made up stories and insults thrown about by angry and confused old Charlie as usual.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Still no answers. The silence is deafening.

 

Just made up stories and insults thrown about by angry and confused old Charlie as usual.

 

Type away if you like, but the general advice is that when in a hole it's best to stop digging.

[sadoldgit]

Still no answers. The silence is deafening.

 

Just made up stories and insults thrown about by angry and confused old Charlie as usual.

 

Then that makes two of us, because my recollection is the same as CECs. You clearly have a major problem with Islam and many people will use the term racist. Even if that isn't technically correct the term is often used in this context. Either way Sour you come across as being extremely Islamophobic and I am sure I have read a post or two from you asking what positives that Muslims have provided for our society.

[moonraker]

Still no answers. The silence is deafening.

 

Just made up stories and insults thrown about by angry and confused old Charlie as usual.

 

To me there is only one confused poster in this debate and it is not CEC. Lets try a very easy question albeit 2 part question, the answer requires no references to news stories, learned papers, political propaganda or any of the other sources referenced during the course of this thread.

Part 1: Do you, Sour Mash, truly believe that people of Islamic Faith have provided no positive benefit to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Part 2 Do you believe that the vast majority of UK Muslims are peaceful law abiding citizens.

There is no right and wrong , the answers require no particular knowledge, special understanding, so even you should be able to come up with something more informative and imaginative than you hitherto have.

[Sour Mash]

Then that makes two of us, because my recollection is the same as CECs. You clearly have a major problem with Islam and many people will use the term racist. Even if that isn't technically correct the term is often used in this context. Either way Sour you come across as being extremely Islamophobic and I am sure I have read a post or two from you asking what positives that Muslims have provided for our society.

Oh, I definitely have a problem with Islam and its impact on the West. But which race am I racist against?

 

Do you think people should be happy for their town or city to be taken over by Islam?

[Sour Mash]

To me there is only one confused poster in this debate and it is not CEC. Lets try a very easy question albeit 2 part question, the answer requires no references to news stories, learned papers, political propaganda or any of the other sources referenced during the course of this thread.

Part 1: Do you, Sour Mash, truly believe that people of Islamic Faith have provided no positive benefit to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Part 2 Do you believe that the vast majority of UK Muslims are peaceful law abiding citizens.

There is no right and wrong , the answers require no particular knowledge, special understanding, so even you should be able to come up with something more informative and imaginative than you hitherto have.

Answers to your question, yes and yes. Unlike some, I don't have no problem answering questions.

[Sour Mash]

Type away if you like, but the general advice is that when in a hole it's best to stop digging.

And still nothing.

[sadoldgit]

Oh, I definitely have a problem with Islam and its impact on the West. But which race am I racist against?

 

Do you think people should be happy for their town or city to be taken over by Islam?

 

As I said, the term racist is often used in this context. Your are "racist" against Muslims even if they aren't technically a "race."

 

So what do mean in your second question? Like do I think people would be happy if their town or city would be taken over by Catholics, or Methodists, of Protestants, or Mormons?

[Sour Mash]

As I said, the term racist is often used in this context. Your are "racist" against Muslims even if they aren't technically a "race."

 

So what do mean in your second question? Like do I think people would be happy if their town or city would be taken over by Catholics, or Methodists, of Protestants, or Mormons?

There's nothing "technical" or "non-technical" about it - a race isn't a group of people that make a choice to believe in a load of made up rules and superstitions.

 

Mosques, Halal Shops, Muslim Schools, Islamic bookshops, you would like that to be the predominant culture of where you live?

[sadoldgit]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/why-we-should-thank-immigrants-for-raising-standards-in-our-schools/

 

This is for you and Batman as he seems to have a big problem with immigrant too. I couldn't find the article from the Mail last week but this will do to be getting on with.

[moonraker]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/why-we-should-thank-immigrants-for-raising-standards-in-our-schools/

 

This is for you and Batman as he seems to have a big problem with immigrant too. I couldn't find the article from the Mail last week but this will do to be getting on with.

 

No no no they have no positive benefit on our society they cant possibly be credited with improving our schools, especially from the bottom up. This is obviously evidence of the onward march of Muslim culture, in cahoots with the Chinese. We need to dumb these people down, we must stop providing them with these opportunities, we need more bigots, not educated foreigners!

[sadoldgit]

There's nothing "technical" or "non-technical" about it - a race isn't a group of people that make a choice to believe in a load of made up rules and superstitions.

 

Mosques, Halal Shops, Muslim Schools, Islamic bookshops, you would like that to be the predominant culture of where you live?

 

1. If you bother to look up the term racist you will see that it can be used as a term for those who are phobic about religious groups too. Either way, you are clearly Islamophobic so I don't see why you are getting so upset about a word.

2. Really don't care. I chose to live where I feel most comfortable and that doesn't include worrying about what the "predominant culture" in the area is.

[sadoldgit]

https://muslimreverie.wordpress.com/2011/10/15/debunking-the-islam-is-not-a-race-argument/

[Sour Mash]

1. If you bother to look up the term racist you will see that it can be used as a term for those who are phobic about religious groups too. Either way, you are clearly Islamophobic so I don't see why you are getting so upset about a word.

2. Really don't care. I chose to live where I feel most comfortable and that doesn't include worrying about what the "predominant culture" in the area is.

People who choose to believe a set of beliefs and superstitions aren't a race, you agree with that though? I've never claimed not to be Islamophobic. I'm not getting upset about a word, I just enjoy proving you wrong.

 

So it wouldn't bother you if there was a mosque on every street corner of your town, every school was an Islamic school, every shop only sold halal and every bookshop only sold Islamic books?

[moonraker]

People who choose to believe a set of beliefs and superstitions aren't a race, you agree with that though? I've never claimed not to be Islamophobic. I'm not getting upset about a word, I just enjoy proving you wrong.

 

So it wouldn't bother you if there was a mosque on every street corner of your town, every school was an Islamic school, every shop only sold halal and every bookshop only sold Islamic books?

 

Why do you continually make up ridiculous scenarios. The posters who are challenging you neither want or have said they would be happy with any of the things your self-indulgent imagination keeps generating. You answered my earlier questions in the affirmative, they were deliberately closed questions to make it simple for you. Your answer to the first confirmed, in my opinion, you are a racist. Your obvious limited understanding of English etymology and usage is supporting evidence of a myopic mind-set, further exhibited in your simplistic and ill considered view of Muslims. I can not decide whether you are actually just standard UKIPER, an EDL acolyte, or a very persistent and slightly sad WUM. Off course you may be none of these things, but whatever you are you are not very bright.

[shirleysfc]

So it wouldn't bother you if there was a mosque on every street corner of your town, every school was an Islamic school, every shop only sold halal and every bookshop only sold Islamic books?

 

Bizarre question. This will never happen.

[Sour Mash]

Bizarre question. This will never happen.

But you wouldn't want it to happen would you? Or a less extreme example would you like your area to become like Molenbeek, parts of Paris, London and Birmingham, Luton, Bradford?

[shirleysfc]

But you wouldn't want it to happen would you? Or a less extreme example would you like your area to become like Molenbeek, parts of Paris, London and Birmingham, Luton, Bradford?

 

That won't happen either.

[hypochondriac]

It's ridiculous to say that no Muslims have had any positive impact on Britain. It's equally ridiculous to label clearly prejudiced remarks against muslims as racist. Sour Mash had made clear Islamaphobic remarks and many comments that I consider to be ill advised and demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding Muslims. Just call it what it is rather than trying to twist the definition of race or putting up articles claiming there is no such thing as race to try to brand someone a racist, it does the opposing argument no favours.

[sadoldgit]

Did you read the argument? Religionist, Islamophobic, Racist, whatever you want to call it - I think we all know what we are talking about here don't we?

[hypochondriac]

Did you read the argument? Religionist, Islamophobic, Racist, whatever you want to call it - I think we all know what we are talking about here don't we?

 

No i didn't read the argument. I completely ignored the last few pages and decided to post about racism for no reason.

[Sour Mash]

That won't happen either.

So no answer. But I get it, because it's not likely to happen to where you live any time soon, you don't care what happens to other areas. Fair enough.

[Sour Mash]

Why do you continually make up ridiculous scenarios. The posters who are challenging you neither want or have said they would be happy with any of the things your self-indulgent imagination keeps generating. You answered my earlier questions in the affirmative, they were deliberately closed questions to make it simple for you. Your answer to the first confirmed, in my opinion, you are a racist. Your obvious limited understanding of English etymology and usage is supporting evidence of a myopic mind-set, further exhibited in your simplistic and ill considered view of Muslims. I can not decide whether you are actually just standard UKIPER, an EDL acolyte, or a very persistent and slightly sad WUM. Off course you may be none of these things, but whatever you are you are not very bright.

So the standard rant, full of abuse and no discussion of the subject.

 

Remember when you had to apologies after it was pointed out numerous times you hadn't read the links provided properly

[Sour Mash]

Did you read the argument? Religionist, Islamophobic, Racist, whatever you want to call it - I think we all know what we are talking about here don't we?

Yeah, who actually cares about the meaning of words.

[Sour Mash]

It's ridiculous to say that no Muslims have had any positive impact on Britain. It's equally ridiculous to label clearly prejudiced remarks against muslims as racist. Sour Mash had made clear Islamaphobic remarks and many comments that I consider to be ill advised and demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding Muslims. Just call it what it is rather than trying to twist the definition of race or putting up articles claiming there is no such thing as race to try to brand someone a racist, it does the opposing argument no favours.

There's all fair enough, although I didn't ever say your first sentence.

[moonraker]

So the standard rant, full of abuse and no discussion of the subject.

 

Remember when you had to apologies after it was pointed out numerous times you hadn't read the links provided properly

 

As stated before it is not rant as it is not verbal. My post has no reference to any links previously posted. To accuse me of abuse is a bit strong, what you object to are my personal conclusions, based on your posts that I personally find distasteful from there explicit and implicit message. I am sure I am not alone in drawing these or similar conclusions based your persistent and repetitive arguments . As to my numerous apologies , so what, admitting I made a mistake and correcting it does not weaken my position. And for clarity because we know you love clarity I apologised on two occasions, so hardly numerous.

Edited 6 April, 2016 by moonraker

[hypochondriac]

There's all fair enough, although I didn't ever say your first sentence.

 

Did you not say yes to the question posed in post #3114?

[whelk]

Sorry whelk but youre wrong on this one. The links I've posted above are pretty conclusive. Numerous fatwas have been issued against isis.

Fair enough and i concede I was wrong. Although i still don't call it a backlash but don't want to get involved in that one again

[hypochondriac]

Fair enough and i concede I was wrong. Although i still don't call it a backlash but don't want to get involved in that one again

 

Well that's just down to definitions and we clearly aren't going to agree on that one because it depends what definition you use.

[TwoPints]

But you wouldn't want it to happen would you? Or a less extreme example would you like your area to become like Molenbeek, parts of Paris, London and Birmingham, Luton, Bradford?

My brother in law lived in Birmingham for many years and somehow managed to live quite peacefully with the multi racial community there and I experienced no issues whatsoever on my regular visits there. I did not feel in any way threatened by the people or the fact that there was a particular religious building on a street corner.

 

Similarly I have just returned from Cologne. You know the one, where the picture of a city blighted by migrants has been reflected on here because of the incidents at new year. What I found was a beautiful city, with very hospitable people of all races and religion. All the people that might have been immigrants seemed to be going about their business, working, eating McDonald's, shopping just like everyone else. I really don't know what you're afraid of.

[Sour Mash]

My brother in law lived in Birmingham for many years and somehow managed to live quite peacefully with the multi racial community there and I experienced no issues whatsoever on my regular visits there. I did not feel in any way threatened by the people or the fact that there was a particular religious building on a street corner.

 

Similarly I have just returned from Cologne. You know the one, where the picture of a city blighted by migrants has been reflected on here because of the incidents at new year. What I found was a beautiful city, with very hospitable people of all races and religion. All the people that might have been immigrants seemed to be going about their business, working, eating McDonald's, shopping just like everyone else. I really don't know what you're afraid of.

Interesting story, but not really relevant to anything that is being discussed here.

 

Were the muslim rape gangs on New Year's eve in Cologne just going about their business?

[shirleysfc]

So no answer. But I get it, because it's not likely to happen to where you live any time soon, you don't care what happens to other areas. Fair enough.

 

And now you're making stuff up again.

 

I do not believe our towns and cities are being taken over by Islam (or whatever phrase it is you use).

 

There is clearly an issue with terrorism at the moment. No one is denying or making excuses for this. But for the vast majority of people, religion has no impact on their day to day lives.

Edited 6 April, 2016 by shirleysfc

[van Hanegem]

If the idea of race is not really valid then does that also mean that there is no such thing as racism then? Not really, racism is alive and well alas - as this very thread shows - but what we really mean by the term today is that people like you (for example) hold views that are 'culturally racist' in nature.

 

Christ, by these standards the majority of the Europeans is racist. Finally there's one thing Europeans have in common, let's call the EU!

According to this list Western Europeans are even worse than the Eeastern Europeans: http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-most-racist-european-countries-towards-muslims-367218/

[TwoPints]

Christ, by these standards the majority of the Europeans is racist. Finally there's one thing Europeans have in common, let's call the EU!

According to this list Western Europeans are even worse than the Eeastern Europeans: http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-most-racist-european-countries-towards-muslims-367218/

'ang on, that can't be right. According to Sour, you can't be racist against Muslims.

[TwoPints]

Interesting story, but not really relevant to anything that is being discussed here.

 

It was a direct response to your question about living in places like Birmingham so how is that not relevant? The question still exists though. What is it you're afraid of exactly?

[moonraker]

It was a direct response to your question about living in places like Birmingham so how is that not relevant? The question still exists though. What is it you're afraid of exactly?

 

He dosn't or cant't answer open questions, you will have to play 20 questions to find out what he is really thinking.

[sadoldgit]

No i didn't read the argument. I completely ignored the last few pages and decided to post about racism for no reason.

 

I waas talking about the article I posted re racism and Islam. You are very touchy aren't you.

[sadoldgit]

Interesting story, but not really relevant to anything that is being discussed here.

 

Were the muslim rape gangs on New Year's eve in Cologne just going about their business?

 

Muslim rape gangs? Surely you mean rape gangs?

[sadoldgit]

Yeah, who actually cares about the meaning of words.

 

Ok so help me out here. Is it okay to hate a religion but not ok to hate a race? Or are they both as bad as each other?

[Sour Mash]

It was a direct response to your question about living in places like Birmingham so how is that not relevant? The question still exists though. What is it you're afraid of exactly?

No, it wasn't a direct response to my question. It was a closed question, the only direct response was either a "yes" or "no".

[Sour Mash]

And now you're making stuff up again.

 

I do not believe our towns and cities are being taken over by Islam (or whatever phrase it is you use).

 

There is clearly an issue with terrorism at the moment. No one is denying or making excuses for this. But for the vast majority of people, religion has no impact on their day to day lives.

So still no answer.

[Sour Mash]

Ok so help me out here. Is it okay to hate a religion but not ok to hate a race? Or are they both as bad as each other?

You do realise what a religion is? A made up set of rules and superstitions that people choose to believe and behave by. Of course its ok to dislike one and the culture it brings with it.

 

Do you think Islamic culture is a good thing for Western Europe?