Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[TwoPints]

Twitter and Facebook posts, what a backlash[emoji38]

That'll show those terrorists and no mistake.

For a man so insistent on getting answers to his questions, you're not too good at answering them are you. You've been asked twice what you expected in a 'backlash' that hasn't already been shown to you but you've so far not answered.

 

Apart from thousands of Muslims fighting ISIS in the middle east, Muslim groups around the world condemning their actions, as well as the links to protests that you have already been shown, what exactly do you expect to see in your 'backlash'.

 

I have a feeling that I know what your response will be but it would be nice if I was proved wrong and you were actually able to give a sensible answer.

[Sour Mash]

For a man so insistent on getting answers to his questions, you're not too good at answering them are you. You've been asked twice what you expected in a 'backlash' that hasn't already been shown to you but you've so far not answered.

 

Apart from thousands of Muslims fighting ISIS in the middle east, Muslim groups around the world condemning their actions, as well as the links to protests that you have already been shown, what exactly do you expect to see in your 'backlash'.

 

I have a feeling that I know what your response will be but it would be nice if I was proved wrong and you were actually able to give a sensible answer.

Anything that actually fits the definition of "backlash" would be good, so "a strong negative reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development." Strong, negative reaction, by a large number of people? Not yet I'm afraid.

 

Just for clarity, you're saying that any Muslims fighting against Isis are moderates, that are opposing Islamic terrorism?

[Sour Mash]

Yet again claimimg I said something that I clearly did not, and still no answers.

Lets check the facts. Did gender segregation take place at these meetings happen? Yes. Do you think they are regular, moderate muslims? Yes. Are you happy with the spread of this regular, moderate Islamic culture across the Uk and Western Europe? Yes. Do you describe anyone that doesn't think such behaviour is a good thing as a bigot? Yes.

 

How is that for some questions and answers?

[TwoPints]

Anything that actually fits the definition of "backlash" would be good, so "a strong negative reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development." Strong, negative reaction, by a large number of people? Not yet I'm afraid.

 

Just for clarity, you're saying that any Muslims fighting against Isis are moderates, that are opposing Islamic terrorism?

So Muslim groups around the world opposing the actions of ISIS doesn't meet your definition of 'a strong negative reaction by a large number of people'? That seems to be exactly what it is. As for Muslims fighting ISIS, neither you nor I know whether they're' moderates' or not but as they're fighting against ISIS and losing their lives by the thousand in an attempt to defeat them, I think it's safe to assume that they don't share the same ideals. You could probably describe their actions as a backlash?

 

So, I'll ask again, what does meet your definition of a backlash? You've had plenty of examples handed to you but you don't seem to accept any of them, so I'll ask again, what do you expect to see? Maybe an example might be useful.

[hypochondriac]

So a person talking to themselves, saying something that no-one else can hear is being antagonistic?

 

"showing or feeling active opposition or hostility towards someone or something" - active opposition? No.

"One who opposes and contends against another" Opposing and contending with another? No.

 

So in sum total of this clear backlash by moderates, we've got a handful of people, going on a march that they were going on anyway and wasn't even arranged with anything to do with terrorism, holding up a few placards. More UK nationals have gone to join Isis than have done that.

 

Again, the amount of people taking part in the backlash was not the question, it was simply if their actions that have been publicised met the definition. Now you can twist it all you want but I would say it's fairly obvious to everyone else that it is antagonistic regardless of who hears it. You won't admit you are wrong but I'm afraid in this instance you quite clearly are.

[Sour Mash]

So Muslim groups around the world opposing the actions of ISIS doesn't meet your definition of 'a strong negative reaction by a large number of people'? That seems to be exactly what it is. As for Muslims fighting ISIS, neither you nor I know whether they're' moderates' or not but as they're fighting against ISIS and losing their lives by the thousand in an attempt to defeat them, I think it's safe to assume that they don't share the same ideals. You could probably describe their actions as a backlash?

 

So, I'll ask again, what does meet your definition of a backlash? You've had plenty of examples handed to you but you don't seem to accept any of them, so I'll ask again, what do you expect to see? Maybe an example might be useful.

So Assad's forces are moderate muslims carrying out a moderate muslim backlash against terrorism?

[moonraker]

Lets check the facts. Did gender segregation take place at these meetings happen? Yes. Do you think they are regular, moderate muslims? Yes. Are you happy with the spread of this regular, moderate Islamic culture across the Uk and Western Europe? Yes. Do you describe anyone that doesn't think such behaviour is a good thing as a bigot? Yes.

 

How is that for some questions and answers?

 

Rubbish your have just answered questions you made up yourself, not ones you have been posed by others attempting to have an adult debate. As the questions you have posed are directed at me please allow me the courtesy of answering them rather than answering them for me 1. you say these ‘meetings’ yet referenced only one. 2. Why aren’t they moderate, what evidence do have to the contrary? 3. I have never said I am happy with spread of moderate Islamic culture or any particular culture across the UK or anywhere for that matter. 4. No I describe you as a bigot and against the definition of bigot the content of your posts presents a fairly water tight case for my claim.

And another small worm for you to chew on, the most successfully enforced culture in history is that of Western Europe, I happen to believe that on balance this has been beneficial, however I am sure many decedents of the indigenous people of North and South America, Australia etc . might take me to task on that.

[buctootim]

Sour Mash just doesn't want Muslims in the country. No amount of posts explaining why they aren't all guilty / complicit will change that. However he also doesnt want to say what he would do about the 'problem' as he knows advocating forced deportations or banning Mosques wouldnt go down well.

[Sour Mash]

Again, the amount of people taking part in the backlash was not the question, it was simply if their actions that have been publicised met the definition. Now you can twist it all you want but I would say it's fairly obvious to everyone else that it is antagonistic regardless of who hears it. You won't admit you are wrong but I'm afraid in this instance you quite clearly are.

Just look at the definition of the word "backlash".

 

"a strong negative reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development." Not my definition.

[Sour Mash]

Rubbish your have just answered questions you made up yourself, not ones you have been posed by others attempting to have an adult debate. As the questions you have posed are directed at me please allow me the courtesy of answering them rather than answering them for me 1. you say these ‘meetings’ yet referenced only one. 2. Why aren’t they moderate, what evidence do have to the contrary? 3. I have never said I am happy with spread of moderate Islamic culture or any particular culture across the UK or anywhere for that matter. 4. No I describe you as a bigot and against the definition of bigot the content of your posts presents a fairly water tight case for my claim.

And another small worm for you to chew on, the most successfully enforced culture in history is that of Western Europe, I happen to believe that on balance this has been beneficial, however I am sure many decedents of the indigenous people of North and South America, Australia etc . might take me to task on that.

I have referenced two meetings, you haven't even bothered looking at the links, but prefer to waffle on.

 

At least you've confirmed you don't want to see any further muslim immigration into the UK, slightly bigoted view I feel though, but at least you're being honest.

[TwoPints]

So Assad's forces are moderate muslims carrying out a moderate muslim backlash against terrorism?

Not going to answer for the fourth time then.

[Sour Mash]

Not going to answer for the fourth time then.

Oh that moderate Islamic backlash from Assad and his men.

[TwoPints]

Oh that moderate Islamic backlash from Assad and his men.

That'll be a 'no' then.

[moonraker]

I have referenced two meetings, you haven't even bothered looking at the links, but prefer to waffle on.

 

At least you've confirmed you don't want to see any further muslim immigration into the UK, slightly bigoted view I feel though, but at least you're being honest.

 

So now you have transmogrified my statement that ‘I wasn’t happy with the spread of any particular culture’ to ‘I am not happy to see further Muslim immigration’. Your pure gold Sour, your ability to interpret others views and statement into something fundamentally different (grotesque even) is straight out of the Donald Trump Debating for Dummies manual. Abraham Lincoln is oft quoted as saying ‘You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time’, but you couldn’t fool any of the people any of the time, apart from perhaps yourself.

[Sour Mash]

So now you have transmogrified my statement that ‘I wasn’t happy with the spread of any particular culture’ to ‘I am not happy to see further Muslim immigration’. Your pure gold Sour, your ability to interpret others views and statement into something fundamentally different (grotesque even) is straight out of the Donald Trump Debating for Dummies manual. Abraham Lincoln is oft quoted as saying ‘You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time’, but you couldn’t fool any of the people any of the time, apart from perhaps yourself.

You said yourself you weren't happy with the spread of moderate muslim culture. Your words, not mine I'm afraid.

[sadoldgit]

Twitter and Facebook posts, what a backlash

 

That'll show those terrorists and no mistake.

 

Do you accept that IS don't seem to have a problem killing Muslims as well as others?

[moonraker]

I have referenced two meetings, you haven't even bothered looking at the links, but prefer to waffle on.

 

At least you've confirmed you don't want to see any further muslim immigration into the UK, slightly bigoted view I feel though, but at least you're being honest.

 

You cant even work out that the two links you provide are two articles about the same meeting, that is a singular event and hence a meeting not meetings. I am now getting headache trying to comprehend what sort of logic it takes to continue to; not anwer questions, continually reference and repeat the same inconclusive evidence, attempt to alter that which others write and represent it as the original, fail to acknowledge anything anyone else says that does not support 'its not a backlash, were all doomed due to the Islamic march across Europe, to many muslims are extremist, extremist supporters or symapathysers and on and on'.

Edited 31 March, 2016 by moonraker

[TwoPints]

Oh that moderate Islamic backlash from Assad and his men.

Why won't you answer the question Sour? Is it because if you told us what would satisfy your definition of a backlash then you'd either come across as more foolish than you already do or that you would lose that line of argument that you can use to continue to spout your bigoted drivel? Can't think of any other reason that you wouldn't enlightened us with your thoughts.

[moonraker]

You said yourself you weren't happy with the spread of moderate muslim culture. Your words, not mine I'm afraid.

 

The spread of a culture and the rate of immigration are not one and the same thing. The spread of Western European culture around then world was not effected by mass migration but in the main by force of arms and/or superior technology.

[whelk]

Break in the T20 semi so caught up on this thread that has basically amounted to 'oh yes it is' to 'oh no it isn't'

Disappointingly no mention of Hopkins, Maidstone or belt buckles

[Sour Mash]

You cant even work out that the two links you provide are two articles about the same meeting, that is a singular event and hence a meeting not meetings. I am now getting headache trying to comprehend what sort of logic it takes to continue to; not anwer questions, continually reference and repeat the same inconclusive evidence, attempt to alter that which others write and represent it as the original, fail to acknowledge anything anyone else says that does not support 'its not a backlash, were all doomed due to the Islamic march across Europe, to many muslims are extremist, extremist supporters or symapathysers and on and on'.

 

There's two links, two two meetings, one in Birmingham, one in Oldham, any reason why you continue to deny this?

[Sour Mash]

The spread of a culture and the rate of immigration are not one and the same thing. The spread of Western European culture around then world was not effected by mass migration but in the main by force of arms and/or superior technology.

 

So you don't think that more moderate muslim immigration, would result in more moderate muslim culture and behaviours?

[Sour Mash]

Why won't you answer the question Sour? Is it because if you told us what would satisfy your definition of a backlash then you'd either come across as more foolish than you already do or that you would lose that line of argument that you can use to continue to spout your bigoted drivel? Can't think of any other reason that you wouldn't enlightened us with your thoughts.

Which question?

[Sour Mash]

Do you accept that IS don't seem to have a problem killing Muslims as well as others?

 

Of course I accept that, no-one has suggested they don't.

[hypochondriac]

Just look at the definition of the word "backlash".

 

"a strong negative reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development." Not my definition.

 

So you are ignoring the other definition which doesn't say this?

[moonraker]

There's two links, two two meetings, one in Birmingham, one in Oldham, any reason why you continue to deny this?

 

Apologies you are correct, I was fooled by the use of the same photograph at the top of each article. Strange to use a phot of one meeting in an article about a completely different meetings. Still now we have 2 meetings, that really is conclusive evidence of the hold Muslims have on the Labour Party. What worries me even more now I think about it, the Tories have a Muslim in the current cabinet, their second in 5 years surely that is the end of British culture, I must check whether they are moderate or extremist although I am not sure it makes any difference so hope fully they are reasonable Muslims (is there actually such a thing). They certainly are persistent these folk, to think its only 150 years since the first Muslim sat in the house of Lords and now here they are in cabinet, the onward march of Muslim Culture is irresistible.

[Sour Mash]

Apologies you are correct.

I know, apology accepted.

[Sour Mash]

So you are ignoring the other definition which doesn't say this?

I'm not ignoring it, I've debated it over the last three pages.

 

Why are you ignoring this definition (first answer in google for what its worth)?

Edited 31 March, 2016 by Sour Mash

[sadoldgit]

Break in the T20 semi so caught up on this thread that has basically amounted to 'oh yes it is' to 'oh no it isn't'

Disappointingly no mention of Hopkins, Maidstone or belt buckles

 

That can be remedied Whelk!

[sadoldgit]

I can't see it lasting. You'll be off on one about nazis and evil Christians in a minute.

 

Yeah, bastards aren't they!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I must propose a vote of thanks to one particular SWF member one here who, by his tireless efforts to make a complete arse of himself, has achieved what I had hitherto considered to be a virtual impossibilty - i.e. he has united everyone.

 

So outstanding has his recent work on here been that even the great Donald Trump himself would struggle to come across as more ill-informed or bigoted.

 

WELL DONE THAT MAN!

[Sour Mash]

Ah, of course, the old Chapel End Charlie approach - when you don't have an answer, resort to name calling and making things up. Speaks volumes.

 

What's that? Oh, I see.

 

I must propose a vote of thanks to one particular SWF member one here who, by his tireless efforts to make a complete arse of himself, has achieved what I had hitherto considered to be a virtual impossibilty - i.e. he has united everyone.

 

So outstanding has his recent work on here been that even the great Donald Trump himself would struggle to come across as more ill-informed or bigoted.

 

WELL DONE THAT MAN!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

What's that? Oh, I see.

 

But I was refereing to the Whelk!

[hypochondriac]

I'm not ignoring it, I've debated it over the last three pages.

 

Why are you ignoring this definition (first answer in google for what its worth)?

 

There's no point in me trying to find new words to explain the same thing.

[Sour Mash]

There's no point in me trying to find new words to explain the same thing.

Itsn ot new words to explain the same thing, that the definition of the word. Fair enough if you can't find anything to fit it, I couldn't either.

[hypochondriac]

Itsn ot new words to explain the same thing, that the definition of the word. Fair enough if you can't find anything to fit it, I couldn't either.

 

Now you're just being immature. You're ignoring the definition that I showed fitted this situation. That's fine if you want to do that if it makes you feel better.

[Batman]

http://hm.sunshineradio.co.uk/news/top-trending-videos/exposed-uk-school-promoting-extreme-islam/

 

I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable excuse to be made here.

[shirleysfc]

http://hm.sunshineradio.co.uk/news/top-trending-videos/exposed-uk-school-promoting-extreme-islam/

 

I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable excuse to be made here.

 

Bit of a mixed bag that article.

 

Some of it certainly raises concerns and sounds like it is rightly being investigated by the relevant authorities.

 

But they also produce leaflets condemning terrorism and advocating non-violence. They also believe in the importance and need of integration. Surely these are steps in the right direction?

[Batman]

1st reply and virtually excusing it. By claiming this is a step in the right direction?!?!?!

 

When did the moral compass shift that much that meant segregation, sexism and all sorts of other guff is a step in the right direction.... At a UK school in 2016?

 

Of course, as long as they don't promote a bit of murder and all that

[Sour Mash]

Now you're just being immature. You're ignoring the definition that I showed fitted this situation. That's fine if you want to do that if it makes you feel better.

As I said, I debated it over the last three pages. You're the one choosing to ignore the first definition that comes up on Google. Anyway, we've established that even using your own definition and everyone spending hours googling away, the best we could get were a handful of people holding some placards on a march they were going on anyway and go on every year. If that's a backlash, no wonder there is such a problem.

[Sour Mash]

Where did I say that, the segregation was not instigated by the Labour Party but by the attendees culture, traditions and religion. There are many cultural, traditional and religious behaviours and boundaries across Britain that I personally do not subscribe to, if others choose to adopt them or accept them and they are within the law and do not harm or devalue mineor any other individuals life who am I to criticise. Sadly you ignore a couple of the greatest British cultural traditions, that of tolerances and freedom of choice.

 

1st reply and virtually excusing it. By claiming this is a step in the right direction?!?!?!

 

When did the moral compass shift that much that meant segregation, sexism and all sorts of other guff is a step in the right direction.... At a UK school in 2016?

 

Of course, as long as they don't promote a bit of murder and all that

Not a surprise, look at the earlier response from Moonraker. Gender segregation is part of a culture that should be respected and encouraged and anyone that doesn't agree with it is a bigot.

 

On the subject of schools

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-28370552

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34933970

 

But we shouldn't be bigots and critical of this, its their culture and should be encouraged and welcomed to our shores. Lets have more of this I say!

[badgerx16]

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"

[Turkish]

Not a surprise, look at the earlier response from Moonraker. Gender segregation is part of a culture that should be respected and encouraged and anyone that doesn't agree with it is a bigot.

 

On the subject of schools

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-28370552

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34933970

 

But we shouldn't be bigots and critical of this, its their culture and should be encouraged and welcomed to our shores. Lets have more of this I say!

 

Hang on a minute I'm confused. Are we meant to hate homophobia, sexism, gender segregation racism because that's disgusting and has no place in a modern Britian. Or are we supposed to hate gays, treat women as second class citizens, welcome segregation, hate anyone who doesn't believe what we do because immigration is a great thing and that's what their culture is so we should make them feel welcome and embrace their culture. Its not easy being a leftie I can see why they're offended all the time when you're not sure what you should think.

[Johnny Bognor]

in terms of a backlash, to be fair, the Muslim Council of Britain's response was spot on.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/muslim-council-of-britain-condemns-attacks-in-brussels/

http://www.mcb.org.uk/murder-in-glasgow-mcb-condemns-religiously-aggravated-attack/

 

 

Bravo for moderate muslims!!!

 

 

But look at these ******s... no mention on tackling extremist islam, no recognition that it even exists, no mention of the glasgow murder on their website, but plenty of references to standing up to EDL...

http://uaf.org.uk

 

After the brussels attack.. Weyman Bennett, Unite Against Fascism Joint Secretary said:“Our thoughts are with all those affected by the recent terrorist attacks. It is crucial that politicians and the media do not concede to a narrative that portrays all Muslims as terrorists. Firstly because it is not true. Secondly because we do not adopt the same approach when the perpetrators are white racists and fascists. Scapegoating all white people for Anders Breivik’s attacks in Norway seems ridiculous, but this is exactly the response when terrorist attacks occur in the name of Islam. Thirdly this is the climate in which far right and fascist organisations grow.”

 

i am more worried about about these apologists for extremism, as opposed to moderate muslims. The AFEI (thats apologists for exremist islam, formerly the UAF) need to take thier heads out of their arses, as extremist islam ideology is as close to facism as any of us are ever likely to experience. They stand up to a bunch of aging / retired footie hooligans, but suck up to the extremists. Either you're against facism or you are not. Just selecting white racists, makes them, well racist. More dangerous than the BNP.

Edited 31 March, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Johnny Bognor]

Interesting article, although a few years old...

 

Why is the left so blinkered to islamic extremism?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-is-the-left-so-blinkered-to-islamic-extremism-8679265.html

[shirleysfc]

1st reply and virtually excusing it. By claiming this is a step in the right direction?!?!?!

 

When did the moral compass shift that much that meant segregation, sexism and all sorts of other guff is a step in the right direction.... At a UK school in 2016?

 

Of course, as long as they don't promote a bit of murder and all that

 

How the **** have I excused it?? Reading isn't your strong point is it?

 

As I said, there are clearly issues there that need to be sorted out. These have been identified and by the sounds of that article the DoE are working to do this. This is good, yes?

 

You and others have been squinnying that Muslims don't do enough about teaching against terrorism and promoting integration. From the sounds of YOUR example, the centre have been producing anti-terrorism, non-violence leaflets and the centre head also says "We fully believe in the importance and need of integration whilst being able to practise our faith." Unless you don't believe him?

Edited 1 April, 2016 by shirleysfc

[whelk]

Interesting article, although a few years old...

 

Why is the left so blinkered to islamic extremism?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-is-the-left-so-blinkered-to-islamic-extremism-8679265.html

 

Yes interesting and very odd stance.

Same people are quite happy to blame the Jews for conspiracies but would never blame the Sikhs or the Muslims. One could argue quite racist.

[whelk]

How the **** have I excused it?? Reading isn't your strong point is it?

 

As I said, there are clearly issues there that need to be sorted out. These have been identified and by the sounds of that article the DoE are working to do this. This is good, yes?

 

You and others have been squinnying that Muslims don't do enough about teaching against terrorism and promoting integration. From the sounds of YOUR example, the centre have been producing anti-terrorism, non-violence leaflets and the centre head also says "We fully believe in the importance and need of integration whilst being able to practise our faith." Unless you don't believe him?

 

Most people would be very concerned but the fact that you feel the last sentence is so positive shows a reflection of so many who probably are just terrified to be perceived as 'racist'. Endemic in our liberal society and as said before what led to Rotheram and others not being investigated fully.

You go off at Batman but saying it is mixed bag is ridiculous.

[shirleysfc]

Most people would be very concerned but the fact that you feel the last sentence is so positive shows a reflection of so many who probably are just terrified to be perceived as 'racist'. Endemic in our liberal society and as said before what led to Rotheram and others not being investigated fully.

You go off at Batman but saying it is mixed bag is ridiculous.

 

So the fact that they're trying to teach about anti-terrorism and non-violence to the youths in Dewsbury isn't a good thing? Ok, if you say so.

 

For the third time, there are clearly problems with some of the teachings at that place, and by the sounds of it these are quite rightly being investigated by the relevant authorities.

 

I'm confused by what you're saying about the final sentence and what it has to do with how the crimes were investigated in Rotherham? Surely better integration is a good thing?

 

Everything isn't always black and white. It's possible to condem the negatives whilst encouraging the positives.

Edited 1 April, 2016 by shirleysfc

[aintforever]

What proof is there that that was said, dont invent stuff.

 

True, we don't know exactly what was said but someone must have told the women to sit on one side and the men on the other.

 

I'm all for being tolerant of other religions and cultures but there is no reason why we should tolerate sexism, racism or homophobia in today's society. I could'nt care less what god people choose to worship but if you are trying to install your backward ways of thinking on us **** back off to your middle eastern **** hole.