Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[buctootim]

That's hideously inappropriate and neither the time or the place for that sort of thing.

 

Inappropriate for sure, but not disrespecting the dead.

[hypochondriac]

Well the historical record does show that Hitler was actually baptised into the Roman Catholic faith as a child. So, strange as it seems, perhaps he was a practicing Christian in his youth - there are gaps in the record that it make hard to say one way or the other.

 

I would speculate that his experiences in the trenches during the Great War may have turned him against religious faith - if so he would not be alone in that.

 

Again all that is theoretically possible but he certainly wasn't a Christian when he wrote Mein kampf and I doubt soggy was referring to his childhood (the quotes he has used are clearly after his rise to power.)

[hypochondriac]

Inappropriate for sure, but not disrespecting the dead.

 

 

Well that's a matter of opinion but to my mind it shows an incredible amount of disrespect for the memorial and by extension those killed.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Again all that is theoretically possible but he certainly wasn't a Christian when he wrote Mein kampf ...

 

Agreed.

[hypochondriac]

Agreed.

 

A rare moment of agreement! Just get a couple of others on the same page and there may be hope of a consensus yet.

[sadoldgit]

Well sort of. The European response to all this has been woeful so in that sense he is correct but almost everything else he says is mental with no detail. Trump is a cartoon character and will say whatever he thinks will be populist with his supporters. I wouldn't think too deeply about these sort of horrible acts though, after all Hitler was a Christian.

 

Go and read the many, many articles online.

[badgerx16]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LY6QifIHH8&feature=youtu.be

 

A Muslim guy ended up stomping all over the memorial in Brussels shouting 'Palestine Palestine!'

 

Can you indicate the time marker in that video where he is demonstrably 'stomping' on the memorial ?

[sadoldgit]

Again all that is theoretically possible but he certainly wasn't a Christian when he wrote Mein kampf and I doubt soggy was referring to his childhood (the quotes he has used are clearly after his rise to power.)

 

If it helps, look up "Constructive Christianity" in relation to the National Socialism. Also look up "Gott Mitt Uns" which I believe was inscribed on the Nazi belt buckles.

Edited 28 March, 2016 by sadoldgit

[badgerx16]

With all the Hitler / Nazi Christian banter, you are all forgetting the fact that Stalin trained as a priest.

[sadoldgit]

With all the Hitler / Nazi Christian banter, you are all forgetting the fact that Stalin trained as a priest.

 

Now you've done it Badger!!

[hypochondriac]

Go and read the many, many articles online.

 

So you're still claiming that after Hitler rose to power he was a Christian? You genuinely believe that? Here's a couple of sources for you:

 

You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in*Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by*Mein Kampf*in the schools. Randy Alley, one of my best WWII history sources, noted that the SS were supposedly forbidden to believe in God.

 

Hitler also forwarded other reasons in ‘Mein Kampf’ as to why Christianity should be rejected.

 

1.It protected the weak and the low.

 

2.Christianity was Jewish and Oriental in origin and it forced people “to bends their backs to the sound of the church bells and crawl to the cross of a foreign God.”

 

3.Christianity began 2000 years previous among sick, exhausted and despairing men who had lost their belief in life.

 

4.The Christian tenets of forgiveness of sin, resurrection and salvation were “plain nonsense”.

 

5.The Christian idea of mercy was a dangerous idea and “un-German”.

 

6.Christian love was a silly idea because love paralysed men.

 

7.The Christian idea of equality protected the racially inferior, the ill, the weak and the crippled.

 

But yeah Hitler was definitely a Christian. Definitely.

[sadoldgit]

So then Hypo, you cant find anywhere where I have apologised for any kind of terrorist or extremist activities then? Could it be that you made something up? Surely not, we know how much you detest people who make things up. And that would make you a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

[ScepticalStan]

afaik all he did was to lay a Palestinian flag down amongst the memorials and when people started to heckle him he started to shout Palestine.

 

Where have you heard this? Can you provide a source or link?

[Sour Mash]

Islam taking over towns and cities across Western Europe.

 

Regular Islamic terrorist activities across the world.

 

And people think Hitler is relevant

[hypochondriac]

Islam taking over towns and cities across Western Europe.

 

Regular Islamic terrorist activities across the world.

 

And people think Hitler is relevant

 

He's really really isn't but it's such an absurd notion that I had to bring it up again. Sorry to derail the topic somewhat.

[hypochondriac]

So then Hypo, you cant find anywhere where I have apologised for any kind of terrorist or extremist activities then? Could it be that you made something up? Surely not, we know how much you detest people who make things up. And that would make you a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

 

You really didn't read my post did you. An apologist is someone who defends something such as a cause or organisation that is being criticised or attacked from other people. You are an apologist for extremist Islam when in response to someone saying that there is a problem with extremist Islam you deny that is the case and seek to deflect by looking for irrelevant examples of extremism in other faiths and bang on about Hitler being a Christian.

Edited 28 March, 2016 by hypochondriac

[Sour Mash]

He's really really isn't but it's such an absurd notion that I had to bring it up again. Sorry to derail the topic somewhat.

I know, fair play for entertaining him though.

[sadoldgit]

So you're still claiming that after Hitler rose to power he was a Christian? You genuinely believe that? Here's a couple of sources for you:

 

You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in*Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by*Mein Kampf*in the schools. Randy Alley, one of my best WWII history sources, noted that the SS were supposedly forbidden to believe in God.

 

Hitler also forwarded other reasons in ‘Mein Kampf’ as to why Christianity should be rejected.

 

1.It protected the weak and the low.

 

2.Christianity was Jewish and Oriental in origin and it forced people “to bends their backs to the sound of the church bells and crawl to the cross of a foreign God.”

 

3.Christianity began 2000 years previous among sick, exhausted and despairing men who had lost their belief in life.

 

4.The Christian tenets of forgiveness of sin, resurrection and salvation were “plain nonsense”.

 

5.The Christian idea of mercy was a dangerous idea and “un-German”.

 

6.Christian love was a silly idea because love paralysed men.

 

7.The Christian idea of equality protected the racially inferior, the ill, the weak and the crippled.

 

But yeah Hitler was definitely a Christian. Definitely.

 

Go and look at the demographics. A VERY large percentage of the Germans were Catholics and Protestants, many of these were also part of the Nazi Party. As for Hitler, you can argue that his actions were not Christian, although there is an interesting article about his hatred of Judaism which refers to a conflict with Christianity, but there is plenty of written evidence that he spoke positively about Christianity. I supposed the "God" referred to on the belt buckle might not be the Christian God You can believe what you want but there are plenty of articles online about the Nazis and Christianity.

[TwoPints]

SOG feels he was being challenged byTwo Pints so comes back to prove he clearly has the runniest brain.

Dangerous these people who see racists everywhere.

To be honest whelk. You seem to be the only one that was appearing to be challenged by my posts. Once you get over your inferiority complex, people might take more notice of what you're saying but I doubt it to be honest as I haven't seen anything of any value written by you.

[sadoldgit]

He's really really isn't but it's such an absurd notion that I had to bring it up again. Sorry to derail the topic somewhat.

 

No, apparently Katie Hopkins is much more relevant and important.

[TwoPints]

I dont know about you but i would like a world where a muslim shopkeeper who is part of the local community can post a peaceful message on facebook without getting brutally murdered by a islamist fanatic.

 

There is clearly a problem with islamic fundementalism and one which needs to be dealt with. Many apologists dont seem to be able to get their heads around that. I beleive that these apologists pose a greater threat to our way of life than radical islamist nutjobs.

I'm not sure if I'm one of the apologists to whom you refer but I don't disagree with anything you've said here.

[sadoldgit]

You really didn't read my post did you. An apologist is someone who defends something such as a cause or organisation that is being criticised or attacked from other people. You are an apologist for extremist Islam when in response to someone saying that there is a problem with extremist Islam you deny that is the case and seek to deflect by looking for irrelevant examples of extremism in other faiths and bang on about Hitler being a Christian.

 

Not once I have been an apologist for extreme Islam and I have stated very clearly I have no time for any nutters who try and advance their cause by murder. You have made it up. As for Hitler, believe what you want. It is well documented.

[hypochondriac]

Go and look at the demographics. A VERY large percentage of the Germans were Catholics and Protestants, many of these were also part of the Nazi Party. As for Hitler, you can argue that his actions were not Christian, although there is an interesting article about his hatred of Judaism which refers to a conflict with Christianity, but there is plenty of written evidence that he spoke positively about Christianity. I supposed the "God" referred to on the belt buckle might not be the Christian God You can believe what you want but there are plenty of articles online about the Nazis and Christianity.

 

There are plenty of articles refuting what you say (as well as actually knowing something about the Christian religion.) You do realise that just because it's in an article on the Internet it isn't necessarily true right? But yes the nazis must have been Christian because they had it on their belt buckles don't you know . For once Chapel end Charlie and I are in agreement- the nazis used the religion to further their war effort and your belief that Hitler was possibly a Christian after he rose to power is absolutely and utterly absurd. It's also totally irrelevant to the thread other than highlighting once more what mad ideas you have swirling in your brain so I hope we can move on with almost a forum consensus on this issue. Minus soggy of course.

[hypochondriac]

I'm not sure if I'm one of the apologists to whom you refer but I don't disagree with anything you've said here.

 

Fair play. Just get soggy to show some humility and we are on to a winner!

[hypochondriac]

Not once I have been an apologist for extreme Islam and I have stated very clearly I have no time for any nutters who try and advance their cause by murder. You have made it up. As for Hitler, believe what you want. It is well documented.

 

So in response to someone posting something along the lines of "there is a problem with extremism in Islam" you haven't come out with responses that include talking about the Nazis being Christians, talking about atrocities within other religions and calling people racist and reminding us that all Muslims are not terrorists? All whilst seemingly disagreeing with the statement. OK then...

Edited 28 March, 2016 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

No, apparently Katie Hopkins is much more relevant and important.

 

Katie Hopkins is relevant when discussing your lack of understanding about the Christian religion. In that respect she is incredibly relevant.

[whelk]

FFS SOG truly thinks Hitler was a Christian! Mate stop making this so easy and do sometimes think you are unnecessarily being picked on but wow.

[TwoPints]

Fair play. Just get soggy to show some humility and we are on to a winner!

I don't think we are to be fair, not with the likes of you, batman and sour mash about, we're onto anything but a winner.

[whelk]

To be honest whelk. You seem to be the only one that was appearing to be challenged by my posts. Once you get over your inferiority complex, people might take more notice of what you're saying but I doubt it to be honest as I haven't seen anything of any value written by you.

 

Sensitive little soul aren't you. By take notice you mean respond on here I guess? Sweet you have been reading my posts though, thanks

[hypochondriac]

FFS SOG truly thinks Hitler was a Christian! Mate stop making this so easy and do sometimes think you are unnecessarily being picked on but wow.

 

It's made my night. It's in loads of articles on the Internet dont you know.

 

Maybe we should do a pros and cons list for if we think they are Christians.

 

We've got the nazis were Christians on one side screaming about belt buckles and the Holocaust on the other. I know where my money is heading so far. Anyone else? Maybe some of them went to church, I'm going for slaughtering of the disabled next...

Edited 28 March, 2016 by hypochondriac

[whelk]

I like you Whelkie but you need to stop trying to compete with Fry when it comes to insult he has you beat hands down.

 

Fry writes far more eloquently than me and no one can do a take down like him.

I don't mind SOG you are just a bit dopey;-)

[hypochondriac]

I don't think we are to be fair, not with the likes of you, batman and sour mash about, we're onto anything but a winner.

 

Ah we were so close! I thought there was a chance of a cheerful parting of the ways but you couldn't resist one more patronising dose of smug. Shame.

[TwoPints]

Sensitive little soul aren't you. By take notice you mean respond on here I guess? Sweet you have been reading my posts though, thanks

Don't get too excited whelk. I've read all the posts, not singled yours out. I was just surprised that you continue to talk about me when I haven't posted on here.

[hypochondriac]

Fry writes far more eloquently than me and no one can do a take down like him.

I don't mind SOG you are just a bit dopey;-)

 

Careful, he'll be claiming your the same person next or pretending we've been having secret meeting outside of this thread in order to coordinate our attacks!

[whelk]

Don't get too excited whelk. I've read all the posts, not singled yours out. I was just surprised that you continue to talk about me when I haven't posted on here.

 

You can say you've made it when that happens. You should go and look at my other posts. They're all gems

[whelk]

Careful, he'll be claiming your the same person next or pretending we've been having secret meeting outside of this thread in order to coordinate our attacks!

 

Yeah sorry about missing last night's meeting. Was Two Pints mentioned?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

With all the Hitler / Nazi Christian banter, you are all forgetting the fact that Stalin trained as a priest.

 

This is indeed a good point well made.

 

Stalin also greatly relaxed prewar Cummunist suppression of the Russian Orthodox Church as it was found that the unifying effects of religion, and the comfort faith brings to people at a time of exceptional hardness, was of some benifit to the Soviet war effort during 'The Great Patriotic War'.

 

However, it is patiently obvious that neither Hitler nor Stalin (in adulthood anyway) can be considred as true 'Christian Warriors' given their actons and the essentially atheist philosophys they pursued. Indeed, employing WWII as a lesson, you could reasonably argue that while we so often see people blaming religion for the world's ills it was in fact atheist political credos that led Humanity into the darkest period of its modern history during the last century.

 

But even that is a simplificaton of course.

[hypochondriac]

Yeah sorry about missing last night's meeting. Was Two Pints mentioned?

 

I've told you about that obsession before. We're concentrating on soggy and his nazi posts this evening. TwoPints showed a bit of humanity earlier, let's not spoil things by riling him up again.

[buctootim]

a simplificaton of course.

 

Probably best to only use gross simplifications on here. Nuance doesnt seem to go down to well.

[CB Fry]

Well, there's Nazi gold and there's forum gold. SOG delivers, yet again.

[whelk]

Probably best to only use gross simplifications on here. Nuance doesnt seem to go down to well.

 

All seems quite cordial tonight. even CEC hasn't posted total nonsense.

[sadoldgit]

Careful, he'll be claiming your the same person next or pretending we've been having secret meeting outside of this thread in order to coordinate our attacks!

 

You might not have coordinated your "attacks" (your word) but there are plenty of occasions when your posts appeared consecutively which always seemed a bit odd.

[buctootim]

All seems quite cordial tonight

 

Sure, not exactly cocktail party standard, but no-one has knocked anyone's pint over yet.

[hypochondriac]

This is indeed a good point well made.

 

Stalin also greatly relaxed prewar Cummunist suppression of the Russian Orthodox Church as it was found that the unifying effects of religion, and the comfort faith brings to people at a time of exceptional hardness, was of some benifit to the Soviet war effort during 'The Great Patriotic War'.

 

However, it is patiently obvious that neither Hitler nor Stalin (in adulthood anyway) can be considred as true 'Christian Warriors' given their actons and the essentially atheist philosophys they pursued. Indeed, employing WWII as a lesson, you could reasonably argue that while we so often see people blaming religion for the world's ills it was in fact atheist political credos that led Humanity into the darkest period of its modern history during the last century.

 

But even that is a simplificaton of course.

 

Nonsense Charlie. You're forgetting about the belt buckles and the online articles and Hitler's aunt went to church that one time.

[whelk]

Sure, not exactly cocktail party standard, but no-one has knocked anyone's pint over yet.

 

I reckon Two Pints might get punchy soon. When he stops apologising

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

All seems quite cordial tonight. even CEC hasn't posted total nonsense.

 

The night is still young my friendly ....

[sadoldgit]

It's made my night. It's in loads of articles on the Internet dont you know.

 

Maybe we should do a pros and cons list for if we think they are Christians.

 

We've got the nazis were Christians on one side screaming about belt buckles and the Holocaust on the other. I know where my money is heading so far. Anyone else? Maybe some of them went to church, I'm going for slaughtering of the disabled next...

 

Just for you Hypo. although goodness knows I have better things to do.

 

Hitler's speech delivered 5th July 1944 - "I may not be a light of the church, a pulpiteer, but deep down I am a pious man, and believe that whoever fights bravely in defence of the natural laws framed by God and never capitulates will never be deserted by the Lawgiver, but will, in the end, receive the blessings of Providence."

 

This one was delivered 30th January 1945 - "God the Almighty made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work."

 

There are plenty more where they came from, unless he was making it up of course.

[sadoldgit]

Fry writes far more eloquently than me and no one can do a take down like him.

I don't mind SOG you are just a bit dopey;-)

 

Not strictly true Whelk, Shurlock did him up like a kipper over The Sun poll.

[sadoldgit]

Nonsense Charlie. You're forgetting about the belt buckles and the online articles and Hitler's aunt went to church that one time.

 

Oh dear Hypo, making things up again?

[hypochondriac]

Just for you Hypo. although goodness knows I have better things to do.

 

Hitler's speech delivered 5th July 1944 - "I may not be a light of the church, a pulpiteer, but deep down I am a pious man, and believe that whoever fights bravely in defence of the natural laws framed by God and never capitulates will never be deserted by the Lawgiver, but will, in the end, receive the blessings of Providence."

 

This one was delivered 30th January 1945 - "God the Almighty made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work."

 

There are plenty more where they came from, unless he was making it up of course.

 

He's still going so we've got some of his speeches on one side, maybe I'll go with his hate speech in most of Mein kampf? Or the torture of twins? Or maybe just being the leader of the nation that committed the worst atrocities of modern times? Of course that is all trumped by some speeches where he said he was a Christian. this is fantastic.