Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

So no actual answer to my question, fair enough.

 

I'm more than happy to answer your question.

 

My - very white Anglo-Saxon English - nephew has married a lovely Muslim girl of Pakistani origin and they are together now bringing up two beautiful young children. I do realise of course that the happiness of one little family may not ammount to a great deal in the grand sheme of things, but this nation's future will increasingly be a multi cultural one I think - whether you happen to approve of that or not.

 

If you understood the first thing about this naton's long history then you would also know that was equally true of our past.

[Sour Mash]

I'm more than happy to answer your question.

 

My - very white Anglo-Saxon English - nephew has married a lovely Muslim girl of Pakistani origin and they are together now bringing up two beautiful young children. I do realise of course that the happiness of one little family may not ammount to a great deal in the grand sheme of things, but this nation's future will increasingly be a multi cultural one I think - whether you happen to approve of that or not.

 

If you understood the first thing about this naton's long history then you would also know that was equally true of our past.

I'm not sure if this is a serious answer or not, so just to clarify, I'll put the question another way.

 

In what way would Western Europe be worse off if we had never allowed Muslim immigration?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'm not sure if this is a serious answer or not, so just to clarify, I'll put the question another way.

 

In what way would Western Europe be worse off if we had never allowed Muslim immigration?

 

Where do you want to start?

 

I suppose if you really do seek the truth then the 11th century would be a good place to go because there you would learn of the profound role Islamic science and learning played in laying the foundation stones for the later Renaissance

period in Europe. If that is going back too far for your tastes - as I suspect - then how about all the Muslim soldiers who fought and died for this country (and France by the way) in both the first and second world wars?

 

When you swatted up on those two subjects come back and I'll soon find you some more homework to do.

[Wade Garrett]

People in Syria that don't need to leave Syria.

 

Or, in the Belgium case, someone who was known to have fought for ISIS, then let back to live in Brussels.

[badgerx16]

Has there been one single benefit to Western Europe as a result of mass muslim immigration?

Kebab shops ?

[Batman]

Where do you want to start?

 

I suppose if you really do seek the truth then the 11th century would be a good place to go because there you would learn of the profound role Islamic science and learning played in laying the foundation stones for the later Renaissance

period in Europe. If that is going back too far for your tastes - as I suspect - then how about all the Muslim soldiers who fought and died for this country (and France by the way) in both the first and second world wars?

 

When you swatted up on those two subjects come back and I'll soon find you some more homework to do.

I think he means (i may be mistaken) modern, mass immigration. Look at now, millions of Muslims being allowed into a no-border Europe.

at the same time, mass murder on our doorstep is starting to become the norm.

 

you couldn't make it up

[Jonnyboy]

So armed police at every gig in London? It wasn't exactly a massive gig anyway in Paris. And if they then wanted to target a gig, just go to Manchester instead. Or is it every gig in the UK?

 

Fact is, whilst these attacks are devastating for the families of the victims they are, in the grand scheme of things, minor ripples. They certainly aren't significant enough to demand a shift in our own societal norms.

 

Frankly, I wish IS was given less airtime. The "clash of civilizations", "they want to bring down the west" narrative is such palpable garbage it does my head in whenever it's alluded to by politicians or commentators who should know better.

 

These people want control of sections of the middle east. These attacks are perpetrated by thick thugs who are attracted to violence. They are part of the cycle of action and response which can drive recruitment. They absolutely cannot win a war with the west and they know that. I can think of numerous ways they could easily cause far greater damage but they don't because these attacks are basically a gang of dimwits following a rather formulaic script because it has some idiotic pre-existing religious seal of approval. The only way they can achieve some sort of victory is if we react hysterically. I heard that some Italian UEFA delegate has been saying Euro 2016 could be played behind closed doors. What an utter moron. Thick ****.

 

Just crack on.

 

This. Live your lives people.

[Sour Mash]

Where do you want to start?

 

I suppose if you really do seek the truth then the 11th century would be a good place to go because there you would learn of the profound role Islamic science and learning played in laying the foundation stones for the later Renaissance

period in Europe. If that is going back too far for your tastes - as I suspect - then how about all the Muslim soldiers who fought and died for this country (and France by the way) in both the first and second world wars?

 

When you swatted up on those two subjects come back and I'll soon find you some more homework to do.

just answer my question. How would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

[Wade Garrett]

Has there been one single benefit to Western Europe as a result of mass muslim immigration?

 

What have the Romans ever done for us?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I think he means (i may be mistaken) modern, mass immigration. Look at now, millions of Muslims being allowed into a no-border Europe.

at the same time, mass murder on our doorstep is starting to become the norm.

 

you couldn't make it up

 

I make nothing up - there's no need to when the truth is so very obvious.

 

The record shows that many British Muslims today can trace their roots here back to the post war period when our economy required a supply of cheap labour from the Commonwealth to exploit. That is not exactly ancient history is it? Before that, Muslim man power was required to fight for this nation during both WWI and II - as a ex serviceman you should know that already. Therefore, it is clearly idiotic to suggest that Muslims have made no worthwhile contribution to our society because the record does not support any such assertion.

[badgerx16]

I think he means (i may be mistaken) modern, mass immigration. Look at now, millions of Muslims being allowed into a no-border Europe.

at the same time, mass murder on our doorstep is starting to become the norm.

 

you couldn't make it up

 

If this were the early 1970s, would we be discussing Irish immigration in the same way ?

[Batman]

If this were the early 1970s, would we be discussing Irish immigration in the same way ?

 

Probably not. HTH

[TwoPints]

I'm not sure if this is a serious answer or not, so just to clarify, I'll put the question another way.

 

In what way would Western Europe be worse off if we had never allowed Muslim immigration?

I believe Verbal gave you a list that you've chosen to ignore apart from another of your pointless glib comments.

 

What I'm struggling to understand is the benefit of having you in Western Europe to be honest.

[Sour Mash]

I believe Verbal gave you a list that you've chosen to ignore apart from another of your pointless glib comments.

 

What I'm struggling to understand is the benefit of having you in Western Europe to be honest.

In what way would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

 

The fact you can't answer that speaks volumes.

 

But we're getting rape gangs and regular terrorist attacks, great deal for us in your opinion. Mental.

[Dig Dig]

In what way would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

 

The fact you can't answer that speaks volumes.

 

But we're getting rape gangs and regular terrorist attacks, great deal for us in your opinion. Mental.

 

We've had rape gangs through our own beloved BBC personalities and MP's for decades. Shame you're not able to put brown faces to all of those.

 

What proportion of Muslims are terrorists?

[Sour Mash]

We've had rape gangs through our own beloved BBC personalities and MP's for decades. Shame you're not able to put brown faces to all of those.

 

What proportion of Muslims are terrorists?

In what way would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

 

The lack of any answer speaks volumes.

[TwoPints]

In what way would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

 

The fact you can't answer that speaks volumes.

 

But we're getting rape gangs and regular terrorist attacks, great deal for us in your opinion. Mental.

Look at the list, take them out of the equation and work it out yourself.

[Dig Dig]

In what way would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

 

The lack of any answer speaks volumes.

 

It's a ****ing ridiculous question and you will only ignore any responses anyway.

 

What proportion of muslims are terrorists?

[Sour Mash]

It's a ****ing ridiculous question and you will only ignore any responses anyway.

 

What proportion of muslims are terrorists?

Your lack of an answer just goes to illustrate my point.

[Dig Dig]

Your lack of an answer just goes to illustrate my point.

 

You can't answer the question, that's fair enough.

[whelk]

Your lack of an answer just goes to illustrate my point.

 

You are an empty vessel sunshine. Clearly got issues and seize any chance to pedal your right wing agenda.

[Sour Mash]

You can't answer the question, that's fair enough.

Its a tough one to be honest.

 

You've got Isis in Syria and Iraq.

 

Boko Haram in Nigeria.

 

Al Qaeda in Afghanistan

 

Egypt and across North Africa.

 

Plus who knows how many across the towns and cities of Western Europe and even America.

 

Oh and before I forget, Indonesia as well.

 

Fair play, you've got me with that one, I wouldn't even know where to start estimating their numbers

[TwoPints]

 

Plus who knows how many across the towns and cities of Western Europe and even America.

 

Fair play, you've got me with that one, I wouldn't even know where to start estimating their numbers

 

Well, so far across Europe it's about a dozen isn't it but you just go round tarring everyone with the same brush because they happen to share the same religion. You really are an unpleasant individual.

[Sour Mash]

Well, so far across Europe it's about a dozen isn't it but you just go round tarring everyone with the same brush because they happen to share the same religion. You really are an unpleasant individual.

A lot more than a dozen. Do you ever get anything right?

[TwoPints]

A lot more than a dozen. Do you ever get anything right?

So how many do you make it? 20, 30, 50, 100? The point still stands but I suspect your twisted view on life won't allow you to understand that.

[Sour Mash]

So how many do you make it? 20, 30, 50, 100? The point still stands but I suspect your twisted view on life won't allow you to understand that.

Spend the rest of your evening reading this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

[TwoPints]

Spend the rest of your evening reading this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

Maybe you could spend your evening reading up on the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist.

[moonraker]

Maybe you could spend your evening reading up on the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist.

 

Not sure he can read beyond Janet and John. How would Western Europe be worse of without him and his obviously odious views.

[Millbrook Saint]

The problem is I'm not interested in stats or any other ****e like that, I want my 11 year old girl to be safe, do I want her to go to London on school trips, yeah... at the moment, but it is getting worrying for me, not interested in statistics as they won;t comfort me when her beds empty. The fact of the matter is there are some terrorists hiding among the refugees, for me one is too many, I'm sorry if that offends people but this is the fault of the politicians not ours, they're the ones who ****ed up the middle east, they're the ones who caused the refugee crisis, they need to protect the people at home first, then they can worry about other people, again I'm sorry if it offends but not one of their lives is worth me losing my daughter for.

 

Fact of the matter is, our politicians may not say we're at war, but as far as ISIS are concerned we are, that being the case should we allowing all these people into Europe and possibly Britain with no reasonable checks, i'm sure we wouldn't have let quarter of a million Germans march into the UK during world war 2 with no checks and I'm sure most germans weren't Nazis

[TwoPints]

Not sure he can read beyond Janet and John. How would Western Europe be worse of without him and his obviously odious views.

And rather than just search out articles on Islamic terrorism, if he wanted a more balanced view of life, maybe some googling of Christian terrorism might show that it's all as one sided as he wishes it was.

[TwoPints]

The problem is I'm not interested in stats or any other ****e like that, I want my 11 year old girl to be safe, do I want her to go to London on school trips, yeah... at the moment, but it is getting worrying for me, not interested in statistics as they won;t comfort me when her beds empty. The fact of the matter is there are some terrorists hiding among the refugees, for me one is too many, I'm sorry if that offends people but this is the fault of the politicians not ours, they're the ones who ****ed up the middle east, they're the ones who caused the refugee crisis, they need to protect the people at home first, then they can worry about other people, again I'm sorry if it offends but not one of their lives is worth me losing my daughter for.

 

Fact of the matter is, our politicians may not say we're at war, but as far as ISIS are concerned we are, that being the case should we allowing all these people into Europe and possibly Britain with no reasonable checks, i'm sure we wouldn't have let quarter of a million Germans march into the UK during world war 2 with no checks and I'm sure most germans weren't Nazis

I take your point Milbrook but if you look at the facts, the Brussels bombers were Belgian nationals, Lee Rigsby's killers were UK nationals and I believe the two fellas locked up today were UK nationals too. These aren't the people coming into Europe to escape Islamic extremism in their own country.

 

There is clearly a risk but to put it in perspective, you're more likely to be killed by falling furniture than by a terrorist attack. It's an horrendous shocking thing to happen and these events are meant to cause terror, and without belittling the effect they have, the chances of your (or my) daughter being caught up in it are very very slim indeed.

 

Having said that, I do agree that the sort of people that we're talking about here, who are known to the 'authroities' should be weeded out and detained, however I suspect they're using much more covert ways of entering the EU than jumping on a dinghy across the med.

Edited 24 March, 2016 by TwoPints

[Millbrook Saint]

I agree about perspective, but aren't we always told better safe than sorry and if safe means stoppinig all refugees then so be it, the politicians need to work out a better way before allowinig any in.

 

We certainly do have home grown terrorists, but shouldn't we be sorting that out before potentially importing more. We need to lock things down, sort our own problems, once that's done we can start worryiong about others, we can't just let more and more in playing roulette with our lives.

 

I've no idea what the answer is but we have to protect our own first

[Saint Billy]

I agree about perspective, but aren't we always told better safe than sorry and if safe means stoppinig all refugees then so be it, the politicians need to work out a better way before allowinig any in.

 

We certainly do have home grown terrorists, but shouldn't we be sorting that out before potentially importing more. We need to lock things down, sort our own problems, once that's done we can start worryiong about others, we can't just let more and more in playing roulette with our lives.

 

I've no idea what the answer is but we have to protect our own first

 

Spot on!

[buctootim]

just answer my question. How would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

 

How would we have been worse off if your parents had never conceived you? Can you point to anything?

[hutch]

Why is Salafism a much bigger deal now than it ever used to be? Because our 'friends' and allies Saudi Arabia, the ones we sell arms to, spend billions promoting it across the world as an integral part of a network of free schools in poor parts of the world where they have none. Why has the Taliban been able to largely take over Afghanistan? because the Americans funded them to expand to fight the Soviets, but in doing so they usurped the tribal leaders and have grabbed control of the opium trade. How does IS function in Syria? because our friends and allies Turkey buy their oil and supply them.

Fair, but I suggest there are more deep seated reasons behind the present turmoil in the region. The ostracisation of Iran in the seventies, which broke a centuries-old balance in the region betwen the competing Islamic forces, opened the door for the Sunni-dominated Saudis (and their offspring OPEC, GCC etc etc) and other Sunni leaders to spread their controlling interests far and wide. I'm not saying the Iranians were lily white, but not enough thought or understanding was given to the consequences of the action that was taken.

 

And the unfettered support and encouragement that was given to the Arab spring, again without thought or understanding of the repercussions, is a huge factor in the present turmoil. You CANNOT simply export western style secular democracy to states that for centuries have been ruled jointly with an iron fist by unelected religious clerics standing alondside "hereditary" leaders controlling every single aspect of every minute of life. Some, but by no means all, of the people were sold the prospect of a new beginning through social media that simply couldn't be delivered.

 

So yes, western governments are in my opinion partly culpable, but the boots on the ground and aerial bombing are consequences of earlier mistakes, not the cause.

 

And to those that say "but the terrorists are Brtiish- or Belgian-born and bred" I say that the colour of their passport or place of birth is completely irrelevant, they are pawns in a game that is being controlled from the Middle East. It has been said on here before but not understood by many, that muslims are, directly and indirectly, the real targets of the current wave of terror. Da'esh wants to create islamophobia in the west, to drive straying muslims back to them.

[Sour Mash]

Maybe you could spend your evening reading up on the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist.

 

Read through the list yet?

 

It's a pretty long one I know.

[Batman]

The fact Rigby's killers were born in the UK does not excuse anything.

 

in the last 15 years or so, the mass importation of Islam in to western europe has allowed these people to be radicalised far more easily and on our doorstep.

it is now the norm for mass murder in western europe. it is becoming routine to get your 'hashtag' solidarity line out. or show a flag of the next nation hit.

 

you have hate preachers swanning around western europe, turning these young'uns into murderers. It took the UK way too long to get rid of ours (many still here) because of the weird, liberal approach to it. Then the same preachers are turning people to murder in ghetto's in what was a beautiful country (belgium)

Feck me, these hate preachers used to be invited on to the BBC to share their views!!!

 

every day events that sit completely at odds with western values are becoming the norm, segregation, sexism, hate against the west can be found here in the UK from certain parts of society.....and this varient was not born here and we seem to be accepting it. More so, when we have spent so much time and effort to eradicate this from our own way of life

Edited 24 March, 2016 by Batman

[Sour Mash]

The fact Rigby's killers were born in the UK does not excuse anything.

 

in the last 15 years or so, the mass importation of Islam in to western europe has allowed these people to be radicalised far more easily and on our doorstep.

it is now the norm for mass murder in western europe. it is becoming routine to get your 'hashtag' solidarity line out. or show a flag of the next nation hit.

 

you have hate preachers swanning around western europe, turning these young'uns into murderers. It took the UK way too long to get rid of ours (many still here) because of the weird, liberal approach to it. Then the same preachers are turning people to murder in ghetto's in what was a beautiful country (belgium)

Feck me, these hate preachers used to be invited on to the BBC to share their views!!!

 

every day events that sit completely at odds with western values are becoming the norm, segregation, sexism, hate against the west can be found here in the UK from certain parts of society.....and this varient was not born here and we seem to be accepting it. More so, when we have spent so much time and effort to eradicate this from our own way of life

 

And many on here see the takeover of Western European towns and cities by this culture as a good thing. You couldn't make it up.

[Batman]

And many on here see the takeover of Western European towns and cities by this culture as a good thing. You couldn't make it up.

 

Just on LBC right now. A leading Muslim cleric in the UK had just blamed western culture for these people murdering others.

 

Said that the fact they mix islam with drinking, smoking and all things we do, had made them weak minded which allowed them to be swayed.

 

My god!!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

In what way would we be worse off without mass Muslim immigration?

 

The lack of any answer speaks volumes.

 

The record shows that your little question has recieved a number of pretty conclusive replies. Your problem - apart from being a racist that is - is that you don't happen to like the answers you have received.

[Sour Mash]

The record shows that your little question has recieved a number of pretty conclusive replies. Your problem - apart from being a racist that is - is that you don't happen to like the answers you have received.

 

Which of my posts are racist? You do realise that Islam isn't a race I take it?

 

Which posts explain how we would be worse off if we hadn't incurred mass muslim immigration?

 

It boils down to this - some people think mass muslim immigration into Western Europe is a good thing (you), others (me included) don't.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Which of my posts are racist? You do realise that Islam isn't a race I take it?

 

Which posts explain how we would be worse off if we hadn't incurred mass muslim immigration?

 

It boils down to this - some people think mass muslim immigration into Western Europe is a good thing (you), others (me included) don't.

 

Well I think your recent contributions to this thread do ammount to hard evidence of a innately racist attitude - I see that I'm not the only person on here to come to that conclusion. But if you still want to imply that British Muslims (4.5% of our population) make little or no positive contribution to society then you can address the evidence provided in this link:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/29/uk-muslims-economy_n_4170781.html

 

I awaite your reply with interest.

[Sour Mash]

Well I think your recent contributions to this thread do ammount to hard evidence of a innately racist attitude - I see that I'm not the only person on here to come to that conclusion. But if you still want to imply that British Muslims (4.5% of our population) make little or no positive contribution to society then you can address the evidence provided in this link:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/29/uk-muslims-economy_n_4170781.html

 

I awaite your reply with interest.

So, how would our lives be worse off without mass Islamic immigration?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

So, how would our lives be worse off without mass Islamic immigration?

 

Did you even bother to read the link provided?

[Sour Mash]

Did you even bother to read the link provided?

I did. How would our lives be worse off without mass Islamic immigration?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I did. How would our lives be worse off without mass Islamic immigration?

 

Explain the above post as it makes no sense.

[Sour Mash]

Explain the above post as it makes no sense.

 

Your link doesn't demonstrate in any way how without mass Islamic immigration into Western Europe our lives would be worse off.

 

You could import 5million Chinese people into the UK tomorrow and their contribution to the economy would be listed in £billions. Does that mean we should do it and our lives would be worse off without it?

[Turkish]

Well I think your recent contributions to this thread do ammount to hard evidence of a innately racist attitude - I see that I'm not the only person on here to come to that conclusion. But if you still want to imply that British Muslims (4.5% of our population) make little or no positive contribution to society then you can address the evidence provided in this link:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/29/uk-muslims-economy_n_4170781.html

 

I awaite your reply with interest.

 

Surely we can dismiss this article as left wing, Muslim loving clap trap whilst giving the source a hilarious nickname such as the muffington post. This what happens when any article negative towards Muslims in the "daily fail" is right wing, racist, Muslim hating clap trap?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Your link doesn't demonstrate in any way how without mass Islamic immigration into Western Europe our lives would be worse off.

 

You could import 5million Chinese people into the UK tomorrow and their contribution to the economy would be listed in £billions. Does that mean we should do it and our lives would be worse off without it?

 

So the forum will see then that basically there is NO actual evidence that can be presented to you that you would consider to be satisfactory. I must inform you now that normal Human behaviour when asking questions is to elicit a reply. You on the other hand seem to ask questions that you would really rather not have answered for some reason.

 

Surely there must be some Klan or National Front forum that will have you because you are making a complete arse of yourself on here.

[Sour Mash]

So the forum will see then that basically there is NO actual evidence that can be presented to you that you would consider to be satisfactory. I must inform you now that normal Human behaviour when asking questions is to elicit a reply. You on the other hand seem to ask questions that you would really rather not have answered for some reason.

 

Surely there must be some Klan or National Front forum that will have you because you are making a complete arse of yourself on here.

As shown, there isn't an answer.

 

No one can demonstrate how our lives would be worse without mass Islamic immigration.

 

Just cry 'racist' towards anyone that doesn't want our towns and cities taken over. You're happy to see it, despite not living in any of the places actually impacted, which seems to be the case with most of those on the left.