Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Saint Billy]

I think I'll watch the Euros in the summer on tele.

[buctootim]

Good point Timmy. If every English person was like you we'd be a nation full of wet lettuces with chips on our shoulder.

 

Says the camp one from Right Said Fred

[Lighthouse]

Says the camp one from Right Said Fred

 

There was a none-camp one?

[ScepticalStan]

I'm sure people will be a long in a minute to remind us how great immigration is, how we need to embrace islam and how it's okay because it isn't all of them doing it.

 

Nah, the new line is "If we fight back we're only doing what the terrorists want".

[Sour Mash]

this utterly ridiclous open border policy and inviting millions into Europe unchecked will make these events a yearly thing

as said by so many after the last one, less than 6 months ago.

 

the EU, and mostly Germany are destroying the peace built up in our parts with their lunatic policies on border/immigration

As I said above. There are plenty of people, including posters on here, that think mass Islamic immigration into Western Europe and the free- unrestricted movement of people around Europe to be a good thing.

 

You couldn't make it up.

[buctootim]

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

But you just did. Go on then. Name a poster here who thinks unrestricted Islamic immigration is a good thing.

[Sour Mash]

But you just did. Go on then. Name a poster here who thinks unrestricted Islamic immigration is a good thing.

I didn't say anyone thinks "unrestricted" Islamic immigration is a good thing. Do you ever get anything right?

[trousers]

Another group of innocent unsuspecting civilians mown down by nutters. Just like the Paris attacks, this well eventually go out of the news until the next attack in a few months - and so it goes on. Inevitable.

I've never quite figured the point of blowing up and murdering in the way that they do. Surely, if you really want to cause chaos and terror you attack power lines, water supplies, substations, highways, train track. You bring cities to a standstill and create financial chaos.

 

I can only assume they are a bit thick and love the idea of shredding people.

 

I used to think the same when the IRA were blowing up people in London in the 80s. They could have brought London to a stand-still so easily by attacking the infrastructure rather than the people of London, but instead, despite the tragic loss of life they caused, London pretty much was 'business as usual' throughout that period. As you say, it's probably got something to do with lack of intelligence at the end of the day.

[sadoldgit]

Closing the borders will not prevent those intent on maiming and killing carrying out their attacks.

[buctootim]

I used to think the same when the IRA were blowing up people in London in the 80s. They could have brought London to a stand-still so easily by attacking the infrastructure rather than the people of London, but instead, despite the tragic loss of life they caused, London pretty much was 'business as usual' throughout that period. As you say, it's probably got something to do with lack of intelligence at the end of the day.

 

Actually they didnt really go around blowing up people randomly. That largely stopped in the 1970s. Their attacks after that were on military, political and economic infrastructure targets.

Edited 22 March, 2016 by buctootim

[eurosaint]

A bit close to home for me, 2 of my grandchildren right now are at school in Zaventem (about a mile from the airport and no doubt heard the blasts!), my son is at work about 5 miles away but has no idea as of now how he can collect them later ! His mate left Maalbeek station 10 mins before the bombing and said his office building shook just after he got in !

Scary at the best of times but even more when you know people and all the streets being shown on the telly !

[sadoldgit]

I used to think the same when the IRA were blowing up people in London in the 80s. They could have brought London to a stand-still so easily by attacking the infrastructure rather than the people of London, but instead, despite the tragic loss of life they caused, London pretty much was 'business as usual' throughout that period. As you say, it's probably got something to do with lack of intelligence at the end of the day.

 

That is why terrorism ultimately fails. The psychopaths or those who direct the psychopaths finally realise that killing people doesn't get them what they want. As you say, if they attacked the infrastructure it would cause far greater chaos. I worked in London during the IRA bombings and we continued to go to the pub and go to work as usual. It was a greater problem dealing with the 3 day week. Of course those who lost loved ones will have felt the pain, but the rest of us just rocked on and got on with it.

[Batman]

Closing the borders will not prevent those intent on maiming and killing carrying out their attacks.

 

it will help, though. more so than not having any border controls

[trousers]

Actually they didnt really go around blowing up people randomly. That largely stopped in the 1970s. Their attacks after that were on military, political and infrastructure targets.

 

Was more of a mixed bag than that...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London

[buctootim]

That is why terrorism ultimately fails. The psychopaths or those who direct the psychopaths finally realise that killing people doesn't get them what they want. As you say, if they attacked the infrastructure it would cause far greater chaos. I worked in London during the IRA bombings and we continued to go to the pub and go to work as usual. It was a greater problem dealing with the 3 day week. Of course those who lost loved ones will have felt the pain, but the rest of us just rocked on and got on with it.

 

It did get them what they wanted. When the troubles started there was domination of the Catholic minority and discrimination in housing, schools and employment. That discrimination has now ended and there is a power sharing government.

[Sour Mash]

Was more of a mixed bag than that...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London

Plus Manchester and Warrington.

[trousers]

It did get them what they wanted.

 

I think the point being made is that they could have "got what they wanted" a lot sooner than they did if their 'bombing campaign' had been a lot more intelligent. They could have blown up all rail lines into London and all runways (etc) and brought London to a standstill for weeks/months on end, for example. IMO, people with terrorist mindsets prefer protracted campaigns because it feeds their deranged appetite for violence.

[sadoldgit]

Bombings in the 70s and 80s - 1971 Post Office Tower, London. 72 Aldershot, letter bomb Israeli Embassy London. 73 Old Bailey, Kings Cross and Euston Stns. 74 M62 coach bomb, Houses of Parliament, Woolwich, Guildford, London, Birmingham, Bristol. 75 Caterham. 75 Kilburn. 78 Bristol. 79 Glasgow, Airey Neave blown up Houses of Parliament. 81 Chelsea barracks, Wimpey Bar Oxford St. 82 Hyde Park. 83 Harrods. 84 Brighton Tory Conference. 89 Deal.

 

Not just London and not every 5 minutes but you never knew where they would strike next. It wasnt just the IRA though. There was Black September and the Iranian Embassy siege when a WPC was shot dead.

[buctootim]

I think the point being made is that they could have "got what they wanted" a lot sooner than they did if their 'bombing campaign' had been a lot more intelligent. They could have blown up all rail lines into London and all runways (etc) and brought London to a standstill for weeks/months on end, for example. IMO, people with terrorist mindsets prefer protracted campaigns because it feeds their deranged appetite for violence.

 

Fair point. They used to blow the Belfast to Dublin railway line up regularly, so Im not sure why that wasnt done in London. I think probably because its not as effective as you think - most repairs can be carried out within 24 hours - unless you can bring down a bridge for example. It was the targetting of the City - bombs at the Stock Exchange, Baltic Exchange, Bishopsgate, Canary Wharf etc which brought about the Good Friday Agreement.

[sadoldgit]

It did get them what they wanted. When the troubles started there was domination of the Catholic minority and discrimination in housing, schools and employment. That discrimination has now ended and there is a power sharing government.

 

But they are still not a Republic. My understanding is that their aim was to kick the Brits out of NI and join the south with the north?

Edited 22 March, 2016 by sadoldgit

[buctootim]

But they are not a Republic.

 

That was never going to happen because Republicans are a minority in NI and in any event at the time the Republic of Ireland didnt want them - NI needed far too much economic subsidy for Ireland to take on.

[Chalkboy]

Fair point. They used to blow the Belfast to Dublin railway line up regularly, so Im not sure why that wasnt done in London. I think probably because its not as effective as you think - most repairs can be carried out within 24 hours - unless you can bring down a bridge for example. It was the targetting of the City - bombs at the Stock Exchange, Baltic Exchange, Bishopsgate, Canary Wharf etc which brought about the Good Friday Agreement.

 

This is interesting;

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ira-bombs-cause-motorway-gridlock-1264995.html

 

 

Far more effective than maiming and killing.

[buctootim]

This is interesting;

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ira-bombs-cause-motorway-gridlock-1264995.html

 

 

Far more effective than maiming and killing.

 

Good find, I'd not seen that before. Agree much more effective.

[whelk]

Good find, I'd not seen that before. Agree much more effective.

 

Do people not get they think the West weak and want us to be in fear. A traffic jam is hardly the same

[Doctoroncall]

it will help, though. more so than not having any border controls

 

Over the last few decades, almost all attacks in Europe have involved local people attacking local targets with locally sourced materials and weapons.

[Johnny Bognor]

You can't compare the IRA with ISIS.

 

They don't have a list of demands. They don't want disputed land back (like the IRA) or independence (like ETA). This is an ideological war which cannot be negotiated. There is no peaceful settlement. They want the destruction of our way of life. There is nothing to negotiate. Do people not get this???

[hutch]

Do people not get they think the West weak and want us to be in fear. A traffic jam is hardly the same

 

As Soggy put it earlier, the tactic is doomed to fail. I too was in London through the 80s and 90s and saw too many aftermaths and stood in too many queues while the stations/streets/pubs were swept. But there was no fear, or terror. There was plenty of anger, and resolve, and sadness. But terror? No.

[buctootim]

Do people not get they think the West weak and want us to be in fear. A traffic jam is hardly the same

 

Northern Ireland is a totally different situation to Salafism though. The IRA was about ending discrimination against Catholics and what they saw as colonialism in Ireland - ie you can have negotiations leading to slightly different political arrangements. Islamic fundamentalism seeks to impose a way of life totally incompatible with European culture and society. The way you tackle is to stop funding the creation of the extremist groups for our own political ends, stopping Saudi funding of extremist ideology madrassas and creating unstable chaos in places like Afghanistan, Libya and Iraq.

Edited 22 March, 2016 by buctootim

[Chalkboy]

You can't compare the IRA with ISIS.

 

They don't have a list of demands. They don't want disputed land back (like the IRA) or independence (like ETA). This is an ideological war which cannot be negotiated. There is no peaceful settlement. They want the destruction of our way of life. There is nothing to negotiate. Do people not get this???

 

I agree with you. The IRA was brought up to show how attacking infrastructure can be an effective tool, rather than destroying what is in effect a handful of people every now and then. If they want to destroy our way of life then they need to interfere with it on a much grander scale. Infected water, no power, no travel............

Edited 22 March, 2016 by Chalkboy
typo

[Lighthouse]

The only way out of this mess is the relentless pursuit and elimination of all the leaders, preachers, bomb makers, training camps etc. Which breed this brand of extremism.

[hypochondriac]

You can't compare the IRA with ISIS.

 

They don't have a list of demands. They don't want disputed land back (like the IRA) or independence (like ETA). This is an ideological war which cannot be negotiated. There is no peaceful settlement. They want the destruction of our way of life. There is nothing to negotiate. Do people not get this???

 

It's what most of this conversation has been about. Certain posters seem to think that negotiation and non violent resolution will happen. Other posters agree with middle eastern leaders and those on the ground that this is an impossibility and hopelessly naive.

[Batman]

Over the last few decades, almost all attacks in Europe have involved local people attacking local targets with locally sourced materials and weapons.

 

so, having free movement, unchecked and all that across europe has zero impact either way?

 

riiiight

 

Belgium are probably paying for all the time and effort waging war in the middle east in the last 20 years!!!!!

Edited 22 March, 2016 by Batman

[buctootim]

Certain posters seem to think that negotiation and non violent resolution will happen.

 

Who's that?

[hypochondriac]

Who's that?

 

Have you read this thread? I realise it's long and I'm not trawling through it again to find you examples but be assured that that is what was being said a number of times during this conversation.

[Sour Mash]

The only way out of this mess is the relentless pursuit and elimination of all the leaders, preachers, bomb makers, training camps etc. Which breed this brand of extremism.

But to continue to allow the grwth of Muslim communities in our towns and cities where these ideas and behaviours thrive?

[Batman]

this will have a big impact on the EU referendum.

[buctootim]

this will have a big impact on the EU referendum.

 

Not really, you were going to vote out anyway. How many of the terrorists acts in the UK in the past 50 years have been carried out by people from the EU?

[Batman]

Not really, you were going to vote out anyway. How many of the terrorists acts in the UK in the past 50 years have been carried out by people from the EU?

 

and you are going to vote in. regardless

 

I think many undecided will have security/immigration/border controls more to the front of their minds when mulling this over

[buctootim]

and you are going to vote in. regardless

 

I think many undecided will have security/immigration/border controls more to the front of their minds when mulling this over

 

Do we not have border controls now then?

[Lighthouse]

But to continue to allow the grwth of Muslim communities in our towns and cities where these ideas and behaviours thrive?

 

The onus is on these communities to be extra vigilant for extremist behaviour, report it and stamp it out.

 

In an ideal world there would be no 'Muslim communities' as this implies segregation and isolation, which is what leads to fundamentalism. I'm against the idea of Muslim schools (and Christian, Jewish and other religious schools) in principle and think they should be banned, so that minorities are properly integrated into British society.

[sadoldgit]

Who's that?

 

Its ok, he is having his usual pop at me. Trouble is he hasn't got a solution other than killing all of the terrorists so I am not sure how that is going to work.

[Lighthouse]

Its ok, he is having his usual pop at me. Trouble is he hasn't got a solution other than killing all of the terrorists so I am not sure how that is going to work.

 

Your alternative being?

[hypochondriac]

Its ok, he is having his usual pop at me. Trouble is he hasn't got a solution other than killing all of the terrorists so I am not sure how that is going to work.

 

I didn't mention you but seeing as you have admitted it yourself, it's clear that you were one of those laughably urging negotiation with the Islamic state. I've also written in this thread giving my solution on more than one occasion as you well know so that's another lie.

[aintforever]

Your alternative being?

 

God knows what the solution will be, but bombing the **** out of people in Syria/Iraq is not going to solve anything on it's own.

[hypochondriac]

Personally I would like to see a proper coalition of nations who oppose IS (including the likes of Russia and Iran) and a much greater effort to destroy their bases and leaders. This would involve cutting them off financially combined with military force. Part of the problem in Iraq was that we destabilised the country and then left due to political pressure before we had seen through the changes required so we should ensure that does not happen again. I would get agreements in place with neighbouring Arabic countries to assist in these operations and if needs be I would tolerate criminals like Assad in the short term as the lesser of two evils to help to bring stability to the region once the bulk of IS has been destroyed. Longer term and once the bulk of IS has been crushed, I would like to see some attempts at engagement with those survivors still disaffected. I would make clear to them that dialogue and engagement is always open but that dissent would be met with force. Whilst that is not a perfect plan, I think that's a much more realistic plan than engaging in negotiation at this time with an enemy who doesn't want to negotiate.

 

In fact here was my earlier post offering a strategy- so saying I've never offered one is a lie. It's not a perfect solution by any means but it's certainly much better than some vague "negotiation."

[hypochondriac]

God knows what the solution will be, but bombing the **** out of people in Syria/Iraq is not going to solve anything on it's own.

 

Agreed. Anyone who suggests bombing the **** out of people in Syria and Iraq on its own is an imbecile.

[Sour Mash]

Bombing Syria and/or Iraq is a bit pointless in terms of this kind of attack. It wouldn't have stopped this attack, or Paris in November, or Lee Rigby or 7/7 or 9/11.

 

Stopping the spread of Islam in the West would have had an impact. The damage is sadly probably already done though.

[CB Saint]

Agreed. Anyone who suggests bombing the **** out of people in Syria and Iraq on its own is an imbecile.

 

Damn right, you need to include saudi, yemen, Iran, Gaza, Palestine, Afganistan, and Israel on the oblit list

[hypochondriac]

Damn right, you need to include saudi, yemen, Iran, Gaza, Palestine, Afganistan, and Israel on the oblit list

 

Here is an example of another imbecile.

[Fatboy40]

this will have a big impact on the EU referendum.

 

I don't think it will have a 'big' impact, the human mind intentionally tries to hide traumatic events away otherwise we'd all be gibbering wrecks, but come the day of the referendum this will certainly be worth a point or two in the direction of Brexit.

 

I'm looking forward to the woolly noncommittal replies from the 'panel' on QT this week when they get asked about this, no balls and too scared to offend anyone.

Edited 22 March, 2016 by Fatboy40