Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Dig Dig]

What is your problem Whelk seriously? Where is there any self pity or pleading to be put on ignore. You can do what the hell you like, I really don't care. But if my posts p*ss you off so much why even bother reading them? Yes I can handle debate. That is why I am here. Can you?

 

So what was your point about taking a long time to be civilised? Did I make a wrong assumption that you were inferring that "we" are and "they" are not? If so you only have to say what you meant. Not too difficult is it? As for Maidstone or Raqqa, if I had said that you would come back with some facetious remark. In actual fact neither and I moved out of Maidstone the first chance I got.

 

You seem to be getting a bit worked up, do you really need to swear?

 

Something else you could see in a typical day in Maidstone?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35260475

[sadoldgit]

Something else you could see in a typical day in Maidstone?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35260475

 

Did I say you would? By the way, we dealt with one particular prosecution where someone cut up a young girls body and left it in a suitcase near the station in Tunbridge Wells. Not Maidstone though.

[Verbal]

This is the post I was referring to earlier.

 

Indeed, and it's easy to see the Islamophobic undertones to it. However, as a 'liberal', I think it is foolish to deny that Middle Eastern cultures are to some extent a source of the events in Cologne and elsewhere in Germany. And there are at least two good reasons for acknowledging this.

 

First, that misogyny and the flip side of sexual prohibition are deeply embedded in those Middle Eastern cultures. If you want evidence of this happening on 'home soil', so to speak, think of the appalling attacks on women in Tahrir Square in Cairo during the protests against the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood government.

 

Second, there is a real problem with the liberal denial of cultural causes. I remember someone on here - can't remember who - approvingly posting a Guardian article satirising the cultural causes argument against those convicted of repeated sexual assaults in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and elsewhere. The satire took for the form of flipping the argument by making the culprits white. The problem with such well-meaning but stupid equivalence is that the perpetrators came from a much more homogenised culture of religious conservatism, not least because more than 75% of all British Pakistanis have their family roots in and a very small area around the Kashmiri and highly conservative town of Mirpur. Many Mirpuri-origin Pakistanis have escaped the cultural orbit of this conservatism, but the women-hating, sexually repressing drumbeat is still very much there. It translates typically into the denigration of young white women and girls as 'easy', 'cheap', etc., and it's not such a big step into the physical assault and exploitation of those women and girls.

 

Worse, this cultural denial leaves the well-meaning liberal argument with only one other explanation: that the overwhelmingly Kashmiri-origin men who conducted those attacks were evil. And the concept of evil is anathama to liberal politics - so liberalism eats itself.

 

So, yes, the Middle-Eastern cultures have a lot to do with what happened in Cologne and elsewhere. It would be futile and quite stupid to deny that. The mischief from racists is to generalise from this cause to imply "all Muslims" being responsible for the attacks, or at least being objects of deep loathing and suspicion.

[Sour Mash]

You have misread it. It didn't say that Maidstone was like Cologne. I said it is like a scene from an old Wild West town. There are fights, there are robberies. Yes, there are even sexual assaults. I used to live there. I also used to see the files that we sent to the Magistates courts from the CPS every Monday. I don't have a serious problem with woman and really cant work out why you would even say that.

If Maidstone isn't like Cologne, what relevance does it have to this thread?

[whelk]

What is your problem Whelk seriously? Where is there any self pity or pleading to be put on ignore. You can do what the hell you like, I really don't care. But if my posts p*ss you off so much why even bother reading them? Yes I can handle debate. That is why I am here. Can you?

 

So what was your point about taking a long time to be civilised? Did I make a wrong assumption that you were inferring that "we" are and "they" are not? If so you only have to say what you meant. Not too difficult is it? As for Maidstone or Raqqa, if I had said that you would come back with some facetious remark. In actual fact neither and I moved out of Maidstone the first chance I got.

 

You seem to be getting a bit worked up, do you really need to swear?

 

Rest assured old boy I am not getting worked up by you or your posts. The expletives are borne of frustration at you seemingly not getting points and seem to be here just for the sport firing out banal questions. You seem to be the one crying foul and keep waving the ignore card. For info I don't even see where I could do that within TapaTalk.

 

And yes 'we' are civilised and I think most of Middle East and most of Africa is not. Feel free to come back with the question that am I saying only Nigerian are cat burglars.

[whelk]

The post quoted in 1592.

 

Didn't notice it but I don't have to pick up every moron trying to be contrary

[whelk]

I'm plenty chilled out thanks. Not sure what your point has got to do with anything beyond a failed attempt at trying to wind me up. You'll need to try harder than that!

 

You always seem to be very reasonable Lou. What are your thoughts on Cologne etc?

[hypochondriac]

What is your problem Whelk seriously? Where is there any self pity or pleading to be put on ignore. You can do what the hell you like, I really don't care. But if my posts p*ss you off so much why even bother reading them? Yes I can handle debate. That is why I am here. Can you?

 

So what was your point about taking a long time to be civilised? Did I make a wrong assumption that you were inferring that "we" are and "they" are not? If so you only have to say what you meant. Not too difficult is it? As for Maidstone or Raqqa, if I had said that you would come back with some facetious remark. In actual fact neither and I moved out of Maidstone the first chance I got.

 

You seem to be getting a bit worked up, do you really need to swear?

 

But you don't debate. As whelk has pointed out, you invent extremes of an argument and then post the counter to it as if someone has said it when they never had. You did it in your previous reply to whelk after he had picked you up in that very post for doing it! That isn't debate, it's just talking with yourself for the sake of it.

[Dig Dig]

Did I say you would? By the way, we dealt with one particular prosecution where someone cut up a young girls body and left it in a suitcase near the station in Tunbridge Wells. Not Maidstone though.

 

Maybe she had been practicing magic?

 

"the group has killed more than 2,000 people for reasons including homosexuality, and for the alleged practice of magic and apostasy, according to the SOHR"- re IS is Raqqa

[whelk]

Maybe she had been practicing magic?

 

"the group has killed more than 2,000 people for reasons including homosexuality, and for the alleged practice of magic and apostasy, according to the SOHR"- re IS is Raqqa

 

As much as I loathe Paul Daniels I'd draw the line at beheading

[whelk]

From BBC

 

Cologne police chief to leave post over New Year's Eve assaults by gangs of men - German media reports https://t.co/R0t4ylUaPX

[sadoldgit]

Maybe she had been practicing magic?

 

"the group has killed more than 2,000 people for reasons including homosexuality, and for the alleged practice of magic and apostasy, according to the SOHR"- re IS is Raqqa

 

Unless she could magic herself back together again that was never going to happen. As for the other stuff, it is appalling isn't it?

[sadoldgit]

Didn't notice it but I don't have to pick up every moron trying to be contrary

 

Nice Whelk, calling people morons.

[Batman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html

[sadoldgit]

Rest assured old boy I am not getting worked up by you or your posts. The expletives are borne of frustration at you seemingly not getting points and seem to be here just for the sport firing out banal questions. You seem to be the one crying foul and keep waving the ignore card. For info I don't even see where I could do that within TapaTalk.

 

And yes 'we' are civilised and I think most of Middle East and most of Africa is not. Feel free to come back with the question that am I saying only Nigerian are cat burglars.

 

I am sorry if you think my questions are banal and thank you for clarifying your position about civilised peoples. I guess you know that plenty of people in other cultures don't see "the West" as being particularly "civilised" but then everything is relative (or am I just being contrary again?). As for the whole ignore thing, I was just pointing out that you do have choices and don't have to engage with my banality if it makes you frustrated.

[hypochondriac]

Nice Whelk, calling people morons.

 

If someone makes moronic comments then it's an accurate assumption.

[sadoldgit]

From BBC

 

Cologne police chief to leave post over New Year's Eve assaults by gangs of men - German media reports https://t.co/R0t4ylUaPX

 

It says he has been removed from office "to restore public trust in the police." I think they would be better off arranging an independent enquiry into what happened and if there was an attempt to cover up the story.

[Batman]

almost every day now. will only get worse

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3389974/Philadelphia-police-Officer-shot-police-cruiser.html

[sadoldgit]

almost every day now. will only get worse

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3389974/Philadelphia-police-Officer-shot-police-cruiser.html

 

This is precisely why I said ages ago that defeating IS was going to be very difficult. There are nutters spread all over the place who are prepared to do things like this.

[Batman]

This is precisely why I said ages ago that defeating IS was going to be very difficult. There are nutters spread all over the place who are prepared to do things like this.

 

They are spread all over as we have been completely liberal with border policies. Why on earth would Europe want to have a completely open border policy next to a medieval culture, I will never know

[sadoldgit]

They are spread all over as we have been completely liberal with border policies. Why on earth would Europe want to have a completely open border policy next to a medieval culture, I will never know

 

It isn't just that though is it? There are plenty of people already living in various countries who are prepared to pull crazy stunts like this.

[Batman]

It isn't just that though is it? There are plenty of people already living in various countries who are prepared to pull crazy stunts like this.

 

Adding to them in vast numbers is not the greatest idea though.

[Coxford_lou]

You always seem to be very reasonable Lou. What are your thoughts on Cologne etc?

 

Thanks for asking. Pretty much what Verbal said above in response to SOG. Horrendous situation - not comparable on any level with a drunken Sat night in England. As Verbal said, very reminiscent of the stories from female Western journalists out of Cairo, which horrified me at the time.

 

Clearly caught German police unaware on the night and handled really badly afterwards. (Arm's length? Good lord). But the backward repressed attitude towards women from Middle Eastern countries is not new news to us, and European Governments need to plan how to tackle issues like this so they can respond more proactively. But it's a problem - no question. An example of how bad it can go.

 

BUT. Not for a nano second would I believe that this is reason why Europe shouldn't assistant in what is one of the biggest humanitarian crisis of our time. To seriously suggest we should be closing the doors of Europe to those pouring out of Syria is inhumane and short sighted, much as the current situation is fraught with problems. It is my belief (rightly or wrongly) we need to be taking more responsibility for these issues. Learning from previous mistakes, and putting concerted effort into all avenues. And I don't believe more dictators is the answer either.

[Batman]

Another one.

 

A militant has opened fire in a Red Sea resort.

 

That is only 2 today. Not bad going. Soon it will become the norm.

[CB Fry]

Another one.

 

A militant has opened fire in a Red Sea resort.

 

That is only 2 today. Not bad going. Soon it will become the norm.

 

Is it a Christian? Surely we're due one, what with there being, like, loads of them or something.

[hypochondriac]

It isn't just that though is it? There are plenty of people already living in various countries who are prepared to pull crazy stunts like this.

 

And as usual no one said it was just that. It's a large contributing factor at the moment though which is of course the point.

[hypochondriac]

Thanks for asking. Pretty much what Verbal said above in response to SOG. Horrendous situation - not comparable on any level with a drunken Sat night in England. As Verbal said, very reminiscent of the stories from female Western journalists out of Cairo, which horrified me at the time.

 

Clearly caught German police unaware on the night and handled really badly afterwards. (Arm's length? Good lord). But the backward repressed attitude towards women from Middle Eastern countries is not new news to us, and European Governments need to plan how to tackle issues like this so they can respond more proactively. But it's a problem - no question. An example of how bad it can go.

 

BUT. Not for a nano second would I believe that this is reason why Europe shouldn't assistant in what is one of the biggest humanitarian crisis of our time. To seriously suggest we should be closing the doors of Europe to those pouring out of Syria is inhumane and short sighted, much as the current situation is fraught with problems. It is my belief (rightly or wrongly) we need to be taking more responsibility for these issues. Learning from previous mistakes, and putting concerted effort into all avenues. And I don't believe more dictators is the answer either.

 

Largely agree. We definitely shouldn't close our borders as you say, but equally we shouldn't have done what Germany have and just open their doors to everyone.

[holepuncture]

BUT. Not for a nano second would I believe that this is reason why Europe shouldn't assistant in what is one of the biggest humanitarian crisis of our time. To seriously suggest we should be closing the doors of Europe to those pouring out of Syria is inhumane and short sighted, much as the current situation is fraught with problems. It is my belief (rightly or wrongly) we need to be taking more responsibility for these issues. Learning from previous mistakes, and putting concerted effort into all avenues. And I don't believe more dictators is the answer either.

 

Very nice of you to sacrifice the women and children of Germany in the name of 'responsibility', I'm sure the recent victims agree that they personally owe a great deal to these vermin, who are not asylum seekers in any way whatsoever (as they have marched through numerous countries who are signed up to the UN refugee convention).

 

I strongly disagree with you flippant attitude and I am not prepared to let innocent women and children take 'responsibility' for the barbarism that exists in the ME, barbarism that has existed for generations, barbarism that will continue for generations.

 

The German people welcomed them with sweets and teddy bears at the train stations, and this is how they're repaid.

 

What we are witnessing is beyond belief in modern Europe, it is sickening, and unfortunately we will be having to live with this for the rest of our lives.

[Sour Mash]

Thanks for asking. Pretty much what Verbal said above in response to SOG. Horrendous situation - not comparable on any level with a drunken Sat night in England. As Verbal said, very reminiscent of the stories from female Western journalists out of Cairo, which horrified me at the time.

 

Clearly caught German police unaware on the night and handled really badly afterwards. (Arm's length? Good lord). But the backward repressed attitude towards women from Middle Eastern countries is not new news to us, and European Governments need to plan how to tackle issues like this so they can respond more proactively. But it's a problem - no question. An example of how bad it can go.

 

BUT. Not for a nano second would I believe that this is reason why Europe shouldn't assistant in what is one of the biggest humanitarian crisis of our time. To seriously suggest we should be closing the doors of Europe to those pouring out of Syria is inhumane and short sighted, much as the current situation is fraught with problems. It is my belief (rightly or wrongly) we need to be taking more responsibility for these issues. Learning from previous mistakes, and putting concerted effort into all avenues. And I don't believe more dictators is the answer either.

How do we stop the increased numbers of terrorists and hundred strong mobs raping and attacking without closing our doors?

[Sour Mash]

Very nice of you to sacrifice the women and children of Germany in the name of 'responsibility', I'm sure the recent victims agree that they personally owe a great deal to these vermin, who are not asylum seekers in any way whatsoever (as they have marched through numerous countries who are signed up to the UN refugee convention).

 

I strongly disagree with you flippant attitude and I am not prepared to let innocent women and children take 'responsibility' for the barbarism that exists in the ME, barbarism that has existed for generations, barbarism that will continue for generations.

 

The German people welcomed them with sweets and teddy bears at the train stations, and this is how they're repaid.

 

What we are witnessing is beyond belief in modern Europe, it is sickening, and unfortunately we will be having to live with this for the rest of our lives.

Pretty much agree. Some people welcoming the take over of Western European cities by backward middle eastern and Islamic cultures with open arms. Sickening.

[Sour Mash]

It isn't just that though is it? There are plenty of people already living in various countries who are prepared to pull crazy stunts like this.

Like what/where?

[Sour Mash]

Another one.

 

A militant has opened fire in a Red Sea resort.

 

That is only 2 today. Not bad going. Soon it will become the norm.

Pretty much a daily event now, if not Belgium, then Germany, or Denmark, or Uk related, yet we're told we have to keep importing these people.

[Batman]

Pretty much a daily event now, if not Belgium, then Germany, or Denmark, or Uk related, yet we're told we have to keep importing these people.

 

only a few months ago, luvvies (famous and non) could not get on camera quick enough to blast Cameron for not opening up our borders like the rest of Europe

[Sour Mash]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-accused-shooting-philly-cop-confessed-committing-act/story?id=36169588

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35268713

 

Just another standard evening of Islam's impact on the world.

[Lets B Avenue]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-accused-shooting-philly-cop-confessed-committing-act/story?id=36169588

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35268713

 

Just another standard evening of Islam's impact on the world.

 

Worse in Maidstone though.

[sadoldgit]

Worse in Maidstone though.

 

Don't let the fact that I didn't say that stop you.

[Sour Mash]

Don't let the fact that I didn't say that stop you.

What relevance does Maidstone have then?

[Coxford_lou]

Very nice of you to sacrifice the women and children of Germany in the name of 'responsibility', I'm sure the recent victims agree that they personally owe a great deal to these vermin, who are not asylum seekers in any way whatsoever (as they have marched through numerous countries who are signed up to the UN refugee convention).

 

I strongly disagree with you flippant attitude and I am not prepared to let innocent women and children take 'responsibility' for the barbarism that exists in the ME, barbarism that has existed for generations, barbarism that will continue for generations.

 

The German people welcomed them with sweets and teddy bears at the train stations, and this is how they're repaid.

 

What we are witnessing is beyond belief in modern Europe, it is sickening, and unfortunately we will be having to live with this for the rest of our lives.

 

Flippant? You're accusing me of being flippant?? Don't put words into my mouth, sunshine. I may use more measured language than you, but there's nothing flippant in my response to rape or this issue.

 

We have a world wide crisis. We currently have a situation where 4 million people have fled a nation of 25 million because their government and the Russians are bombing them, while supporting IS to continue their abuse and destruction. You think you can just ignore this? Hope they'll go away? Let them drown? You think the world allowing this situation to continue is going to solve the problem of IS? You're living in a vacuum if you think it's just a problem in a far away country and all we need to do is shut our doors. The world has a responsibility to tackle this issue, not least because it needs to protect its own citizens.

 

Takes some arrogance to preach to a woman about the seriousness of rape.

[sadoldgit]

What relevance does Maidstone have then?

 

I made reference to Maidstone earlier which has been twisted.

[Sour Mash]

I made reference to Maidstone earlier which has been twisted.

Yeah, I know. What relevance did your original post have?

[Sour Mash]

their government and the Russians are bombing them, while supporting IS to continue their abuse and destruction.

So the Syrian government is bombing the whole population with the Russians, while at the same time supporting IS? That makes a load of sense.

 

And how do we stop the spread of terrorism and the sort of behaviour seen across German cities without closing the door?

 

Its too late now anyway, the damage is pretty much done.

[sadoldgit]

Go and read it again. By the way, there are 11 rapes per hour committed on average in the UK. Just put put what happened in one night in Cologne in context.

[Sour Mash]

Go and read it again. By the way, there are 11 rapes per hour committed on average in the UK. Just put put what happened in one night in Cologne in context.

Read it again. Still not clear, what relevance does it has?

[sadoldgit]

Read it again. Still not clear, what relevance does it has?

 

If you don't think it is relevant, fine.

[Sour Mash]

If you don't think it is relevant, fine.

Glad we agree on something.

[Batman]

The What-aboutery by soggy is a beautiful thing to witness.

 

No matter what it is. He will keep going.

[hypochondriac]

Go and read it again. By the way, there are 11 rapes per hour committed on average in the UK. Just put put what happened in one night in Cologne in context.

 

Oh dear. Is this one of those times again where soggy can't answer something so he says he has already answered or the answer is in a previous post? (when it isn't of course.) see previous posts on this very thread where he has lied and fabricated info or just ignores posters when they call him out on some of this stuff.

[hypochondriac]

The What-aboutery by soggy is a beautiful thing to witness.

 

No matter what it is. He will keep going.

 

You realise you can always put him on ignore. He will no doubt be quick to point this out to you when you disagree with him

[hutch]

But you told us that...

 

To seriously suggest we should be closing the doors of Europe to those pouring out of Syria is inhumane and short sighted, much as the current situation is fraught with problems.

 

which is, at best, mischievous. it's been stated here many, many times that nobody, but nobody, has ever said that genuine refugees from the civil war in Syria should not be taken into Europe for safety.

 

This debate is about the events in Cologne at New Year. The facts (real ones) are that out of 31 people arrested so far, 18 are recent "border-busting" assylum seekers. Of the 31 arrested, 27 are Arabs, but only 4 of those are Syrian. So this is nothing to do with closing the doors of Europe to those pouring out of Syria. It is to do with having proper border controls to make sure that bunches of potential thugs from anywhere between Bangladesh and Morocco are sent packing unless they have a genuine reason to enter Europe.

 

In my opinion, FWIW, these groups of men from all over the Arab world are far more responsible for the deaths of innocent women and children in the Mediterranean than we are, because they constantly overload and abuse those facilities that exist from the EU, UN and various charities that exist to deal with genuine refugees.

 

The reality is that for every Syrian refugee that has entered Europe, half a dozen other potential thugs have sneaked in beside them. Events now demonstrate that they may turn out to be rapists or terrorists. It was wrong to do it, and it would be wrong to allow it to continue.

 

 

 

I remember listening to an interview on BBC World Service radio a few months ago. They were doing follow-up with refugees that they had interviewed previously. It was a young Syrian man who was heading for Germany. In the follow up, he had arrived safely in Germany and been registered. He told the interviewer that they told him that he could stay in a hostel with other young Syrian men that were in the same position as him, to help him to acclimatise to his new life. When he got there they put him in a 4-bed dormitory. He was surprised to find that he was the only Syrian among them.

 

 

 

In my opinion Britain is doing a reasonable job of bringing properly vetted genuine Syrian refugees to Britain, for an initial 5 year period, and otherwise keeping the rest out at Calais. I think we should probably bring more genuine refugees.

[Batman]

Why is it that very little is said when Islamic clerics are touring our universities, preaching their medieval crap

 

Yet, last year.... Someone said something contentious about transgenders and the luvvis went into meltdown about it. Her main Greer is banned from speaking at universities.!!! But speak a bit of Islamic hate and the red carpet is rolled out for you

 

One well known Muslim (weirdo) is lecturing students on all things Islam and informing them that they should not mix with females, they should be encouraged to have many partners as they want and gives the students details on how to physically discipline your wife safely with a small bit of wood. Also it is perfectly acceptable to hit her if she does not please you, like when she goes out and does not tell you where she is going.

 

 

 

Fadel soliman is his name.

 

 

Saturday 9 Jan's first example.

Edited 9 January, 2016 by Batman