hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 Just going over yet another one of your posts, where you've invented a position to argue against, and claimed someone is proposing something they haven't actually given backing to, and given the quotes which would justify it as anywhere near your interpretation. It's a simple device to show how ludicrous your post was. Most people would comprehend this, but I know you like to play dumb(er?) in situations like this. P.S. "What is it you're are talking Guan? You might want to review the dosage" makes no sense. Did you mean taking? If so, ironic from a man who sees non-existent arguments everywhere. That's pretty much what he has done throughout the entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2016 (edited) Just going over yet another one of your posts, where you've invented a position to argue against, and claimed someone is proposing something they haven't actually given backing to, and given the quotes which would justify it as anywhere near your interpretation. It's a simple device to show how ludicrous your post was. Most people would comprehend this, but I know you like to play dumb(er?) in situations like this. P.S. "What is it you're are talking Guan? You might want to review the dosage" makes no sense. Did you mean taking? If so, ironic from a man who sees non-existent arguments everywhere. Yes I meant taking. It was a typo and thanks for pointing it out. As for the rest, I really don't know what you are talking about much of the time. If you would like to explain which post you are talking about perhaps I will be able to answer you. By the way, I had been asking Batman to clarify his position on border closures a while back and he refused to answer. That might help you to put this in some context. Edited 6 January, 2016 by sadoldgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2016 (edited) Yes that's exactly what he said. Exactly that. Batman stated (and I'm sure you can quote him) "There is a binary choice when it comes to borders. Open or closed. Those are the only two options. Controlled borders and conditionally open borders are concepts which no global organisations have recognised as a concept or term and have been around since the the introduction of borders as we understand them today. I love Donald Trump and agree with everything he says. One thing I can't grasp is that I sometimes feel like I'm made of straw". Doomed by his own words. I have just read this again Guan as I thought I might have missed something. No I didn't. I still haven't got a clue what you are going on about but I am guessing that maybe you are keen to close our borders too and that is why you are getting so wound up about something I said to someone else? I am sure you will put me right though if I have got the wrong end of the stick. Or maybe you are still sore at me for questioning the posting the picture of dead bodies from the terrorist attack in Paris on a football forum? Edited 6 January, 2016 by sadoldgit sentence added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 Yes I meant taking. It was a typo and thanks for pointing it out. As for the rest, I really don't know what you are talking about much of the time. If you would like to explain which post you are talking about perhaps I will be able to answer you. By the way, I had been asking Batman to clarify his position on border closures a while back and he refused to answer. That might help you to put this is some context. answer what? I believe borders should not be open willy nilly. Certainly not like 'everyone please come' seen in Germany. Take that how you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 Yes I meant taking. It was a typo and thanks for pointing it out. As for the rest, I really don't know what you are talking about much of the time. If you would like to explain which post you are talking about perhaps I will be able to answer you. By the way, I had been asking Batman to clarify his position on border closures a while back and he refused to answer. That might help you to put this is some context. You could apply that to a load of posters you respond to. You appear confused an awful lot of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2016 answer what? I believe borders should not be open willy nilly. Certainly not like 'everyone please come' seen in Germany. Take that how you want My original question was whether you agreed with Trump that borders should be closed to Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 My original question was whether you agreed with Trump that borders should be closed to Muslims? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2016 no. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 I have just read this again Guan as I thought I might have missed something. No I didn't. I still haven't got a clue what you are going on about but I am guessing that maybe you are keen to close our borders too and that is why you are getting so wound up about something I said to someone else? I am sure you will put me right though if I have got the wrong end of the stick. Or maybe you are still sore at me for questioning the posting the picture of dead bodies from the terrorist attack in Paris on a football forum? Nope, not sore about anything, as you have already shown you don't care for precedents or real world examples. Never let it be said you aren't a special case SOG, so just for you, and assuming you cannot fathom even base material, here is a breakdown of posts, just for you. Exhaustive in every sense of the word. P.S. Before i forget, congrats on derailing the thread again. Feel good about yourself. Officials from the local council now say Cologne City Centre is now a 'no go area' for women. I mean, what the actual fuk? Initial reports of this was kept quiet as not paint North African and Arabs in a bad light? What a fuking mess. But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world......... the whole EU liberal approach to this mess is nothing short of embarrassing and dangerous. The only winner here is Germany really. Ah, so are we are getting nearer an answer to the question of whether you agree with Donald Trump and would close the border to Muslims! I also love your line "But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world." You are right, the sooner all countries close their borders to everyone else the world will be a better place! How are we getting closer to the 'Trump' question? Do you questioning the current policies wants to Ban all Muslims? Do you think this is a binary choice? As in a border is either open or closed with no measure in-between? Where does Batman say all countries should close their borders? Where does he go on to say borders should be closed to everyone? So as you see SOG, there are many 'False positions' above which you project on to batman as if they were his own. They were in fact, imagined by you, seemingly in response to questions never asked. So in my post, I answered those questions on batman's behalf, albeit in a sardonic manner, using the only examples of reply he could give which would slightly match the implied position. Yes that's exactly what he said. Exactly that. Batman stated (and I'm sure you can quote him) "There is a binary choice when it comes to borders. Open or closed. Those are the only two options. Controlled borders and conditionally open borders are concepts which no global organisations have recognised as a concept or term and have been around since the the introduction of borders as we understand them today. I love Donald Trump and agree with everything he says. One thing I can't grasp is that I sometimes feel like I'm made of straw". Doomed by his own words. I know you find it hard to keep up SOG, so we'll recap. Batman was bemoaning the abuses visited upon young woman in Cologne, you then posted a reply that implied he was nearing Donald Trump's Idealogical policy sphere, and that he wanted to close all borders to everyone, and then I provided the only quotes that would make sense of your reply in any way, admittedly with an air of acerbic flourish. Oh and the Straw refers to the idea of the Strawman fallacy, but let's play along and pretend you can't comprehend that. So, now we have the previous posts in context, on to your most recent diatribe. More fun for all on this thread. It's strange, for all the others on this thread, no matter their viewpoint, there is only a general of confusion coming from you. It's almost as if you deliberately misunderstand world-views, and ignore or alter those opinions that do not agree with you. I have just read this again Guan as I thought I might have missed something. No I didn't. I still haven't got a clue what you are going on about Well the paragraphs above are a breakdown of all the posts, so even you can go one line at a time and catch up. but I am guessing that maybe you are keen to close our borders too and that is why you are getting so wound up about something I said to someone else? And here we have it, the crux of your online persona, which so closely resembles that of a troll. . Nothing is nuanced, there are no shades of Grey, just one of two options. If you disagree with the manner in which SOG assumes something, you must be in sympathy of the most extreme option. Why do you guess? Why not pick up on cues in the text (primary level stuff btw, and that's a fact, not an insult). When I wrote about "Controlled borders and conditionally open borders" in the very reply you are mentioning, did you even consider it, for a second? You say you've read it twice, which can only mean you filter out multifaceted approaches to situations at hand. Basic knowledge of differing solutions to a problem are key to any discussion, and if you want to debate someone on their stance, it's best to have rudimentry awareness beyond a two-choice paradigm. I am sure you will put me right though if I have got the wrong end of the stick. It's nice of to to couch your language as one who is offended. Yes, despite your best efforts to spam the board in your little war of attrition with misconceptions and false assumptions, quite literally boring people off, I will continue to post when you pull 'facts' from nowhere. How very dare I! Or maybe you are still sore at me for questioning the posting the picture of dead bodies from the terrorist attack in Paris on a football forum? Again, no. You asked for other examples of atrocities that have had such media coverage, I listed Spanish civil war, Vietnam war, Rwanda, former Yugoslavia, First World War and 'The falling man' on September 11th just off the top of my head as historical precedent, and provided images. You ignored their validity and just made the bizarre complaint that we hadn't talked about them on the thread, unwilling to admit the fact that had those subject been the topics of discussion, then doubtless they would have been brought up. Enjoy your night. And my regrets to the rest of the posters who had to read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2016 Bloody hell Guan, you really do have a lot of time on your hands don't you! I will look at this when I have more time but have a feeling it will boring the cr*p out of everyone else if I reply at length. By the way, I didn't derail this thread. I responded to a mail from another poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2016 (edited) Okay, I have tried to read it but I am really sorry, I still don't know what the hell you are going on about other than you seem to be doing the very things that you accuse me of. Batman and I had been having a previous exchange of posts well before Christmas which if you had followed you might understand the context in which my remarks make sense to me, even if they don't to you. I really think that you take this all way to seriously. To me it is just a bunch of blokes chuntering away on an internet forum while they wait for something more interesting to do. I really do not think we are changing the world, judging by your attempt to justify posting pictures of the deceased from the Paris massacre perhaps you do? By the way, I believe that the majority of those pictures you mention if not all appeared well after the event and in publications that you would expect to find serious subjects dealt with. Not one of them appeared on an internet football forum. You clearly feel what you did was ok. I doubt that the friends and loved ones of the deceased would be happy to know that these pictures were published on a football forum before they were even buried but that is just my assumption. One more thing Guan, you have been very busy forensically pulling my exchange with Batman apart so can I ask you what you make of this quote please? "But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world" I am not sure who the "luvvies" are but putting that aside for one minute, isn't Batman just as guilty as breaking your "binary choice" thing with his assertion that this group of people (luvvies) want our borders open to the whole world? Edited 6 January, 2016 by sadoldgit added para Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 Bloody hell Guan, you really do have a lot of time on your hands don't you! I will look at this when I have more time but have a feeling it will boring the cr*p out of everyone else if I reply at length. By the way, I didn't derail this thread. I responded to a mail from another poster. Yes you did! You've been manufacturing your own arguments with yourself. It's the definition of derailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 Good effort Guan. It's a fair summary of why soggy has now devolved into a troll. About six or seven posters have now attempted to engage with him and then given up and expressed their frustration yet he carried on regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2016 I might be wrong here but as a post (or two) from Hypochondriac often appear(s) after I have posted I am assuming they are aimed at me. The text don't appear so I don't know for sure. I am sure they are just as boring to everyone else as they were to me before I put Hypo on ignore so therefore, from this point on, I am banning Hypochondriac from reading or replying to any of my posts. I have not taken this measure lightly and I am sure that it will be welcomed by all right thinking posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 I might be wrong here but as a post (or two) from Hypochondriac often appear(s) after I have posted I am assuming they are aimed at me. The text don't appear so I don't know for sure. I am sure they are just as boring to everyone else as they were to me before I put Hypo on ignore so therefore, from this point on, I am banning Hypochondriac from reading or replying to any of my posts. I have not taken this measure lightly and I am sure that it will be welcomed by all right thinking posters. are you seriously trying to pretend you have put me on ignore again? Do yourself a favour and either stick me on ignore and be done with it or stop the charade. This on again off again attention seeking rubbish from yourself just makes you look foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 F*****g hell, just watching the footage and interviews on news night from Cologne, horrific. Same in Hamburg and other cities. And to think, so many want to open our doors further to this. A German news outlet has at least apologised for not covering this properly, but sums up a lot of the media's attitude to all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 6 January, 2016 Share Posted 6 January, 2016 Bloody hell Guan, you really do have a lot of time on your hands don't you! . Guan Joined January 2007 ,1049 posts SOG Joined November 2006, 9682 posts 3 months difference in joining and for every one post Guan makes you post nine.... yet you take the argument to him that he has a lot of time on his hands ........ Do you see where you might be going wrong with your other arguments? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Guan Joined January 2007 ,1049 posts SOG Joined November 2006, 9682 posts 3 months difference in joining and for every one post Guan makes you post nine.... yet you take the argument to him that he has a lot of time on his hands ........ Do you see where you might be going wrong with your other arguments? Just a thought. I think he was making a point about the length of Guans post further up the thread. I can't be arsed to read through either, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Guan Joined January 2007 ,1049 posts SOG Joined November 2006, 9682 posts 3 months difference in joining and for every one post Guan makes you post nine.... yet you take the argument to him that he has a lot of time on his hands ........ Do you see where you might be going wrong with your other arguments? Just a thought. Guan gets just three posts a day. I don't have a limit. The time on his hands comment was regarding that long post that he presented earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 I think he was making a point about the length of Guans post further up the thread. I can't be arsed to read through either, tbh. Yes you are right. You were right not be bother reading either. Sorry, I know it must be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Yes you are right. You were right not be bother reading either. Sorry, I know it must be boring. You could always just stop posting idiocy you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 ie before he was a terrorist. Maybe. But it was well known in his local area for being part of a 'Muslim Patrol Gang' Him and his buddies would go around, preaching hate to everyone, dish out violence to those showing public affection and spit at women who are not covered up in public Listening to many interviews on LBC about him. from both Muslims and Non Muslims. One lady said she was stunned when she saw him on BBC. Which was about 48 hours after she saw him arrested in town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 To interrupt the squabbling for just a moment. Just in case anyone missed it, there was a fascinating documentary broadcast last night charting the earlier 'Charlie Hebdo' wave of attacks on Paris that occurred a year ago now. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06vkdxw/this-world-three-days-of-terror-the-charlie-hebdo-attacks I should warn you that this is a harrowing programme to experience, but still well worth watching as those personally involved tell their stories from their own perspective. I was especially moved by the account of a TV journalist who happened to work next door to the Charlie Hebdo offices. This poor man recounts how the events of that terrible day haunt him still - how he is tormented by thoughts that (with hindsight) he somehow might have acted differently at the time and perhaps saved some of the victims. It seems to me that he too is a victim of terror, even if he does not carry the physical scars to show it. In the midst of all this inhumanity how very human his reaction is I think. Another thing that struck me was that - unlike the November attacks - all three gunmen involved here could easily have killed far more people than they actually did. The two brothers who committed the Hebdo attack seem to have seen their journalist victims, and the police that responded, almost as if they were combatants in war. Therefore other French citizens they came across afterwards were spared because - they claimed - they were acting within their own perverse 'code of honour'. The lone terrorist who attacked the Jewish supermarket also had ample opportunity to kill many more hostages than he actually did. Indeed, all these terrorists seem to have spent more time talking to the media rather than actually employing their weapons - a fact which is quite telling I think. I sometimes wonder where the border lays between extreme religious fundamentalism and that ''15 minutes'' of fame that Andy Warhol predicted of all those years ago ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 I sometimes wonder where the border lays between extreme religious fundamentalism and that ''15 minutes'' of fame that Andy Warhol predicted of all those years ago ... Do you really?!? With regards to only attacking "combatants", that was blown out of the water in the most recent Paris attacks, along with the majority of other Islamic terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Do you really?!? With regards to only attacking "combatants", that was blown out of the water in the most recent Paris attacks, along with the majority of other Islamic terrorism. Well you must have read at least part of my post - but it seems have somehow completely misunderstood it. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 F*****g hell, just watching the footage and interviews on news night from Cologne, horrific. Same in Hamburg and other cities. And to think, so many want to open our doors further to this. A German news outlet has at least apologised for not covering this properly, but sums up a lot of the media's attitude to all this. Absolutely shocking. A gang of 1000 men sexually assault dozens of women on NYE in Cologne. This happened a week ago, yet only now are the media outlets covering it. The German authorities were quick to point out that links should not be made between asylum seekers and this terrible 'attack'. Now that 8 arrests have been made, all of which are asylum seekers, I can see some tensions rising in Germany. Lying about such events and covering them up does not help the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Some reports are saying that it was 30 and not 1000 who were involved in the assaults. Still not acceptable but there is a big discrepancy in the figures. I saw a BBC report on this two days ago and last night it was on the BBC news where it is being speculated that the gang were using the sexual assaults as cover for robbery. I saw one report that said of the 8 arrested all were asylum seekers but also another report that said that had not been confirmed officially. Whatever is going on it is clearly disturbing as the police are saying that they cannot guarantee security for women there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Some reports are saying that it was 30 and not 1000 who were involved in the assaults. Still not acceptable but there is a big discrepancy in the figures. I saw a BBC report on this two days ago and last night it was on the BBC news where it is being speculated that the gang were using the sexual assaults as cover for robbery. I saw one report that said of the 8 arrested all were asylum seekers but also another report that said that had not been confirmed officially. Whatever is going on it is clearly disturbing as the police are saying that they cannot guarantee security for women there. From what I've seen, many hundreds of men were in the square. It is unlikely that all of them were involved, but the media blackout is quite frankly disgusting. The number of assualts reported is over 100, including 80 sexual assaults and 2 cases of rape. Donald Trump states a moronic case for banning muslims from America, Twitter and Facebook go into meltdown. 80 women sexually assaulted at the train station in Cologne and nothing. Zip. Zilch. Are bleeding heart liberals and lefties that selective in their faux outrage??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Some reports are saying that it was 30 and not 1000 who were involved in the assaults. Still not acceptable but there is a big discrepancy in the figures. I saw a BBC report on this two days ago and last night it was on the BBC news where it is being speculated that the gang were using the sexual assaults as cover for robbery. I saw one report that said of the 8 arrested all were asylum seekers but also another report that said that had not been confirmed officially. Whatever is going on it is clearly disturbing as the police are saying that they cannot guarantee security for women there. Watch last night's bbc newsnight coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Watch last night's bbc newsnight coverage. It doesn't fit with his agenda as an apologist so he won't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 (edited) From what I've seen, many hundreds of men were in the square. It is unlikely that all of them were involved, but the media blackout is quite frankly disgusting. The number of assualts reported is over 100, including 80 sexual assaults and 2 cases of rape. Donald Trump states a moronic case for banning muslims from America, Twitter and Facebook go into meltdown. 80 women sexually assaulted at the train station in Cologne and nothing. Zip. Zilch. Are bleeding heart liberals and lefties that selective in their faux outrage??? Bless you, do you sign off emails and correspondences with this f**kwit signature too? Edited 7 January, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Bless you, do you sign off emails and correspondences with this f**kwit signature too? Just for a minute, think about the event... If up to 1,000 men, sexaually assulted over 80 women, raped 2 women and robbed the rest, at Victoria or Waterloo station tonight, would you not be outraged? Why the silence by the media outlets? Why the silence on social media? Yet some knob in America, states something utterly moronic and people are foaming at the mouth. For what it's worth, my thoughts go out to the women of Cologne, Stuttgartt and Hamburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Just for a minute, think about the event... If up to 1,000 men, sexaually assulted over 80 women, raped 2 women and robbed the rest, at Victoria or Waterloo station tonight, would you not be outraged? Why the silence by the media outlets? Why the silence on social media? Yet some knob in America, states something utterly moronic and people are foaming at the mouth. For what it's worth, my thoughts go out to the women of Cologne, Stuttgartt and Hamburg But there wasnt silence. It was widely reported in the Cologne local media immediately and has spread throughout the world in less than a week. Im not sure you want to go down the conspiro-weirdo route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 This is especially for Guan - Given the time and effort you put into your earlier post Guan I thought it only fair to try and respond properly. I was struggling with your post last night and am not doing much better after a nights sleep but as I seem to have bothered you so much I will at least try and give you my take on things as we clearly differ. First off I am struggling with your response because I was sharing posts with Batman who didn't seem the least bit bothered. I am sure he would have said more if it had been a big issue for him so I found it odd that you should suddenly appear all guns blazing! In light of the ongoing terrorist activities there are clearly concerns about the ease at which terrorists can operate on the ground. This is fertile ground for those who have issues with, for simplicity, "Johnny Foreigner" and immigration. A current candidate for the position of the most powerful job on the planet, Mr Donald Trump, announced that he would like to deal with the current situation by closing the US borders to Muslims *****il they could figure out what was going on, I think was the timeframe). Clearly there are some people who would like to do the same with our borders to a similar degree (not necessarily just to Muslims). I was having an exchange of views with Batman and as his stance is, I think it is fair to say, right of centre and I was curious as to his position on Trump's statement. I asked him (twice in total I think) if he agreed with closing the borders to Muslims and on both occasions he declined to answer. As you will know having been a member of this board for as long as I have, Batman is usually prompt in replying so I did wonder why he chose not to. Still, there is no law that says that you have to respond on here. Later on I mentioned it again and he accused me of hounding him, which I thought was a bit of an over reaction but there you go. So then we get to the statement "But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world." Hmmmm. Firstly who are these luvvies? I don't recall anyone on here demanding totally open borders. Is he referring to anyone left of centre? Again, I dont recall mass marches in London demanding that we open our borders to "the whole world" by a procession of "luvvies." I expect there are people who do feel that there should be no borders at all but I really am not aware of any mass movement demanding it. So then I decided to challenge Batman on his statement. There are clearly a number of ways to go about this. On an internet forum were blocks of writing are not easy to digest and brevity seems to be the order of the day (mostly you need something short and to the point. Batman's assertion was at one polar end of the argument - he is clearly against opening our borders to the world. Would you agree? So then one way of challenging that point in a very brief manner is to go to the opposite position - which is closed borders (he hadn't given any alternatives). So then, you say you dont agree with open borders, so are you are saying that we would be better off with closed borders? Obviously he isn't saying that because he is not saying anything other than about open borders, but by throwing the other extreme back it does give him the opportunity to come back and clarify his position, which he did. And he didn't kick off about it. What I didn't say to Batman at the time is that I do agree with him that we should have tighter border controls and that immigration should be limited by any country's ability to absorb the numbers required but that is for another post. This is not the Oxford Debating Society. It is a bunch of blokes exchanging opinions, often very badly, on a football chat forum. If you expect a higher standard Guan then I can only think that you dont read many threads! Finally on the subject of the photos you published here from the Paris massacre, I would just ask you how you would have felt if you had lost a son, daughter, wife, mother, father, friend in that attack and had logged on a few days later to chat about football and stuff and had seen a picture of them lying dead on a concert hall floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 From what I've seen, many hundreds of men were in the square. It is unlikely that all of them were involved, but the media blackout is quite frankly disgusting. The number of assualts reported is over 100, including 80 sexual assaults and 2 cases of rape. Donald Trump states a moronic case for banning muslims from America, Twitter and Facebook go into meltdown. 80 women sexually assaulted at the train station in Cologne and nothing. Zip. Zilch. Are bleeding heart liberals and lefties that selective in their faux outrage??? I am not trying to play it down and I think it is outrageous too, but I don't believe there has been a media cover up at all because I have been reading about for a few days now. I did read that Merkel was trying to keep a lid on the idea that it was "North Africans and Arabs" until they knew exactly what the position was. Given that many people are saying that the attacks were carried out by 1000 people and others are saying that around 30 people carried out the attacks, it does seem like there is still some confusion about exactly what went on. As I said earlier, the BBC on the main news last night were also suggesting that the sexual attacks we part of a cover for a mass robbery. I dont think there is any faux outrage at all. I think that people are genuinely appalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Just for a minute, think about the event... If up to 1,000 men, sexaually assulted over 80 women, raped 2 women and robbed the rest, at Victoria or Waterloo station tonight, would you not be outraged? Why the silence by the media outlets? Why the silence on social media? Yet some knob in America, states something utterly moronic and people are foaming at the mouth. For what it's worth, my thoughts go out to the women of Cologne, Stuttgartt and Hamburg And many other towns and cities it is now emerging. The thing that disgusts me the most is how the women and girls are being treated, being told to cover up, that they must keep people at arms length, not to out unaccompanied, so much for fairness and equality. These feral vermin perceive women as little more than a domestic animal, like a dog. Unfortunately it is the women of Germany who are currently being sacrificed in this latest phase of muslim pandering. Sickening really, though we know all to well what happens having experienced the systematic rape of thousands of children in the uk by organised muslim gangs. We will be paying for this for the rest of our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Watch last night's bbc newsnight coverage. I did, and I have been reading the reports on the BBC news app. The app today says that three suspects have been identified but no arrests made. It also says that the interior minister is saying that anti immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees. He goes on to say "What happens on the right wing platforms and in chat rooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women. This is poisoning the climate of our society." Not my words but those of a German official. Is he being an apologist? What happened was clearly appalling but why dont we wait until we know the full details before we start pointing the finger? It may well have been refugees and asylum seekers, does that mean that all refugees and asylum seekers are all rapists and robbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 I did, and I have been reading the reports on the BBC news app. The app today says that three suspects have been identified but no arrests made. It also says that the interior minister is saying that anti immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees. He goes on to say "What happens on the right wing platforms and in chat rooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women. This is poisoning the climate of our society." Not my words but those of a German official. Is he being an apologist? What happened was clearly appalling but why dont we wait until we know the full details before we start pointing the finger? It may well have been refugees and asylum seekers, does that mean that all refugees and asylum seekers are all rapists and robbers? Bloke in our office has lived in Germany for the last 17 years, before starting at ours about 4 months ago. His wife and kids are German and still live over there. He goes back home every other weekend he mentioned yesterday that all you will hear from germany is them really trying to play it down. The German government are the big winners of all these people coming over and the general population are very much against looking like they are being and talking harsh on the subject due to their recent history in the world. basically, they will do anything to appease everyone so not to be seen in a bad light. So he believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 I did, and I have been reading the reports on the BBC news app. The app today says that three suspects have been identified but no arrests made. It also says that the interior minister is saying that anti immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees. He goes on to say "What happens on the right wing platforms and in chat rooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women. This is poisoning the climate of our society." Not my words but those of a German official. Is he being an apologist? What happened was clearly appalling but why dont we wait until we know the full details before we start pointing the finger? It may well have been refugees and asylum seekers, does that mean that all refugees and asylum seekers are all rapists and robbers? And absolutely no one said they were. Why are you again putting words into people's mouths? Equating potential racism on a chat room with rape is disgusting and he clearly has his priorities wrong whoever that German official is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Bloke in our office has lived in Germany for the last 17 years, before starting at ours about 4 months ago. His wife and kids are German and still live over there. He goes back home every other weekend he mentioned yesterday that all you will hear from germany is them really trying to play it down. The German government are the big winners of all these people coming over and the general population are very much against looking like they are being and talking harsh on the subject due to their recent history in the world. basically, they will do anything to appease everyone so not to be seen in a bad light. So he believes. I don't know who they think they would be hoping to appease as to not to be seen in a bad light? With the internet you cant keep anything quite for very long. The women of Cologne have certainly made their voices heard. Surely Merkel doesn't think that she can sweep this under the carpet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 I don't know who they think they would be hoping to appease as to not to be seen in a bad light? With the internet you cant keep anything quite for very long. The women of Cologne have certainly made their voices heard. Surely Merkel doesn't think that she can sweep this under the carpet? themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashnats Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 regarding the photos, I was one of the people who reported the original photo when posted, before the warning in the thread title, and think they absolutely shouldn't be on this forum. not because of the families and bereaved, but because I don't want young children who are following Saints and what should be a safe site for them, to come across images of violent murder. Can't believe anyone thinks it is justifiable to post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 I don't know who they think they would be hoping to appease as to not to be seen in a bad light? With the internet you cant keep anything quite for very long. The women of Cologne have certainly made their voices heard. Surely Merkel doesn't think that she can sweep this under the carpet? #warguiltinnit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 But there wasnt silence. It was widely reported in the Cologne local media immediately and has spread throughout the world in less than a week. Im not sure you want to go down the conspiro-weirdo route. Even a German media outlet apologised for not covering it properly when it happened. As stated, imagine these mobs at Waterloo Station or Manchester Piccadilly Gardens, hundreds strong, it should be front page all over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 And absolutely no one said they were. Why are you again putting words into people's mouths? Equating potential racism on a chat room with rape is disgusting and he clearly has his priorities wrong whoever that German official is. I didn't say anyone said they were. Whose mouth am I supposed to be putting words into? It is just a figure of speech, but then you know that don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 themselves. Yes I get that Batman, it is just that I don't get in this day and age how anyone would think they could keep it under wraps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 regarding the photos, I was one of the people who reported the original photo when posted, before the warning in the thread title, and think they absolutely shouldn't be on this forum. not because of the families and bereaved, but because I don't want young children who are following Saints and what should be a safe site for them, to come across images of violent murder. Can't believe anyone thinks it is justifiable to post them. Thank you for this post asnats. I know that Guan has no regard for anything I say but maybe he will take note of someone who has been here a long time but rarely posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 It is being reported in some papers today that exam schedules in England have been amended due to ramadan to allow students who will be fasting a more convenient time to sit the papers, what is happening to this country:mcinnes: a mate of mine at uni just didn't fast during his exams and just got on with it. We should not be adjusting things like this because some people don't eat because an imaginary man in the sky doesn't want them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 (edited) And once upon a time you couldnt go shopping on a Sunday in this country because the Man in the Sky decreed that we should all rest. When I worked for the Government up to a short while ago some buildings provided special prayer rooms for those who wanted to go off and do their thing at certain times. Does it really matter though? Just because we don't believe does it mean that we cant or shouldn't accommodate those who do? We are more of a multi faith country than a Christian country nowdays aren't we? Is it such a big deal to move exams times around? Edited 7 January, 2016 by sadoldgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 I didn't say anyone said they were. Whose mouth am I supposed to be putting words into? It is just a figure of speech, but then you know that don't you? So why bother even asking the question in your post then if no one actually believed or said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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