Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[hypochondriac]

Would you agree that they are more likely to be Islamic terrorists than Green, Sikh, Christian, Hindu, Ginger?

 

Not true. There are just as many Sikh and Christian terrorists. Or something like that...

[sadoldgit]

For goodness sake soggy are you really that stupid? HMG regularly put out official statements about the number of terror attacks thwarted due to intelligence surveillance.

 

Do you think they have just added 2,000 more staff at GCHQ to monitor your personal porn activity?

 

You haven't seen my porn activity! But seriously I am sure that there are coded messages flying about all over the place but please don't expect me to believe that the Paris terrorists went on FB to tell their mates that they were going to launch an attack on Paris with all the details or that they sat in their local bars or cafes talking openly about their plans. Terrorism works precisely because they keep their plans secret. It fails when the security forces know what they are going to do, where and when.

[sadoldgit]

Would you agree that they are more likely to be Islamic terrorists than Green, Sikh, Christian, Hindu, Ginger?

 

I expect that the intelligence services monitor whichever area of activities they are concerned about at that time. If the IRA were still a threat it would make sense to monitor their activities. As the current threat is coming from IS then it would makes sense to put most of your resources there. I wouldn't rule out the Ginger threat though. Seriously though Whelk, what type of question is that? Still, as the terrorists all seem to be walking about telling anyone who will listen what they are up too it seems like the security forces have any easy job

[hypochondriac]

I expect that the intelligence services monitor whichever area of activities they are concerned about at that time. If the IRA were still a threat it would make sense to monitor their activities. As the current threat is coming from IS then it would makes sense to put most of your resources there. I wouldn't rule out the Ginger threat though. Seriously though Whelk, what type of question is that? Still, as the terrorists all seem to be walking about telling anyone who will listen what they are up too it seems like the security forces have any easy job

So that's a yes then.

[whelk]

I expect that the intelligence services monitor whichever area of activities they are concerned about at that time. If the IRA were still a threat it would make sense to monitor their activities. As the current threat is coming from IS then it would makes sense to put most of your resources there. I wouldn't rule out the Ginger threat though. Seriously though Whelk, what type of question is that? Still, as the terrorists all seem to be walking about telling anyone who will listen what they are up too it seems like the security forces have any easy job

 

it is a type of question to gauge if you are still flying in face of popular opinion ie information the rest of the world seems to be able to process.

[whelk]

I expect that the intelligence services monitor whichever area of activities they are concerned about at that time. If the IRA were still a threat it would make sense to monitor their activities. As the current threat is coming from IS then it would makes sense to put most of your resources there. I wouldn't rule out the Ginger threat though. Seriously though Whelk, what type of question is that? Still, as the terrorists all seem to be walking about telling anyone who will listen what they are up too it seems like the security forces have any easy job

 

GCHQ might be a bit ahead of you with their sophisticated monitoring. There is a difference between broadcasting like that moronic couple from Reading on Twitter and thwarting other attacks. I posted the Times story for discussion but key point was the seeming rejection of the community as saw it as racist and spying on their young men akin to McCarthyism.

 

Twitter is now appearing to get tough with these ISIS sympathising accounts as well although questionable i woudl have thought as to whether having these cnts out in the open is more beneficial

[sadoldgit]

it is a type of question to gauge if you are still flying in face of popular opinion ie information the rest of the world seems to be able to process.

 

Flying in the face of popular opinion? So I am wrong in thinking that we are not at risk from the majority of Muslims in this country? What other information do I not understand that the rest of the world does?

[sadoldgit]

GCHQ might be a bit ahead of you with their sophisticated monitoring. There is a difference between broadcasting like that moronic couple from Reading on Twitter and thwarting other attacks. I posted the Times story for discussion but key point was the seeming rejection of the community as saw it as racist and spying on their young men akin to McCarthyism.

 

Twitter is now appearing to get tough with these ISIS sympathising accounts as well although questionable i woudl have thought as to whether having these cnts out in the open is more beneficial

 

I am sure GCHQ are carrying out sophisticated monitoring and I am sure that there are more sophisticated terrorists out there than the moronic couple from Reading. That has been my point all along.

[Batman]

I am sure GCHQ are carrying out sophisticated monitoring and I am sure that there are more sophisticated terrorists out there than the moronic couple from Reading. That has been my point all along.

 

open source intel is the best source of intelligence gathering. So I am told.

 

open source intel is ANYTHING on the web that does not require you paying to use it. Facebook, Twitter, 192.com etc etc

to 'spy on you', the authorities need justification and authorisation from the home office...or something like that. So not all sophisticated willy nilly

[hypochondriac]

I am sure GCHQ are carrying out sophisticated monitoring and I am sure that there are more sophisticated terrorists out there than the moronic couple from Reading. That has been my point all along.

 

Again, no one has disagreed with that. Many people do believe that they pick up an awful lot of Intel through unsophisticated means which you seem to disagree with despite the evidence saying otherwise.

[Batman]

Again, no one has disagreed with that. Many people do believe that they pick up an awful lot of Intel through unsophisticated means which you seem to disagree with despite the evidence saying otherwise.

 

he seems to be putting his fingers in his ears on this side discussion

 

the CIA take on open source intel (what he dismisses)

 

the importance of Open Source Intelligence (OSINt) has grown in recent years. for the traditional intelligence community, OSINt is likely to remain one component of an all-source intelligence capacity that includes classified sources. for most government agencies, however, OSINt is the only intelligence they have access to, which renders it a strategic enabler of decision- and policy-making for governments.

 

then the reports that the Paris attack was reported to the authorities in Paris before the even and they knew who did it...all thanks to the OSINt

[sadoldgit]

open source intel is the best source of intelligence gathering. So I am told.

 

open source intel is ANYTHING on the web that does not require you paying to use it. Facebook, Twitter, 192.com etc etc

to 'spy on you', the authorities need justification and authorisation from the home office...or something like that. So not all sophisticated willy nilly

 

I am sure information comes in all forms. That is why if you want to run a successful operation it is not ideal to start yakking about it where the security forces can pick it up. I am not saying it doesn't happen because the recent case shows that it does. Hence a failed plot.

[sadoldgit]

he seems to be putting his fingers in his ears on this side discussion

 

the CIA take on open source intel (what he dismisses)

 

 

 

then the reports that the Paris attack was reported to the authorities in Paris before the even and they knew who did it...all thanks to the OSINt

 

I am not putting my fingers in my ears (would make no difference as I use my eyes to read not my ears). I do not dismiss the use of open intel (although feel free to twist my words).

If the authorities knew who was going to carry out the attacks in Paris, where and when, how come they didn't stop it? There is a massive difference between information being picked up and information being broadcast.

Edited 30 December, 2015 by sadoldgit

[hypochondriac]

What exactly are you arguing against? You are simply arguing with yourself. No one has disagreed with the obvious points you are making. Again.

[sussexsaint]

Actually ginger terror is a growing problem in society that is often overlooked:

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ginger-terrorist-plotted-shoot-prince-6493183

 

Ironically, the Middle Eastern countries often vaunted as the hotbed of terrorism are pretty safe from the threat of Ginger terrorists/Red army/Mick Hucknell by virtue of their climate being quite sunny.

[hutch]

Or alternatively they make all the gingers wear a burkha

 

[sadoldgit]

Or alternatively they make all the gingers wear a burkha

 

 

Now that is something worth thinking about!

[Guan 2.0]

And to ring in the New Year, ISIS Murder Five men and promise fresh attacks on Britain. Now featuring young indoctrinated paramilitaries. The whole thing is available on zero censorship, though I would caution against viewing. Extremely disturbing.

 

 

[Verbal]

Anything ISIS can do, the Saudis can do better....

 

Forty-seven dead, some also accused of apostasy and anti-regime activity (daring to peacefully accuse the Saudis of human rights violations) - all murdered with the same cold calculation.

[whelk]

http://bit.ly/1Z097lk from the Spectator

[hypochondriac]

http://bit.ly/1Z097lk from the Spectator

 

Interesting article thanks for that.

[Verbal]

Interesting article thanks for that.

 

So who's side to take, if any? The Saudis killed 47 the other day. The Iranians, with a similarly disgracefully unfair judicial system, executed (publicly hung in most cases) almost 1,000 in 2015.

 

http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publications/human-rights-data/chart-of-executions/1000000564-ihrdc-chart-of-executions-by-the-islamic-republic-of-iran-2015.html

 

Amnesty's comments about the supposed reasons for the killings are interesting:

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/07/irans-staggering-execution-spree/

 

There is a viciousness about life in general in the Arab and Iranian Middle East that is unprecedentedly awful. I simply don't know where the chinks of light are.

[buctootim]

So who's side to take, if any? The Saudis killed 47 the other day. The Iranians, with a similarly disgracefully unfair judicial system, executed (publicly hung in most cases) almost 1,000 in 2015.......There is a viciousness about life in general in the Arab and Iranian Middle East that is unprecedentedly awful. I simply don't know where the chinks of light are.

 

Its hard to know what is 'success' and 'good government' in the middle east. Are the 1,000 judicial deaths year in relatively stable and functioning Iran worse than the chaos in Syria?

 

Im coming round to the idea that democracy is not an option and the best you can hope for is stable dictatorship with an 'acceptable' death toll of dissenters. Not a position I would ever have imagined supporting 10 years ago.

Edited 4 January, 2016 by buctootim

[hypochondriac]

Its hard to know what is 'success' and 'good government' in the middle east. Are the 1,000 judicial deaths year in relatively stable and functioning Iran worse than the chaos in Syria?

 

Im coming round to the idea that democracy is not an option and the best you can hope for is stable dictatorship with an 'acceptable' death toll of dissenters. Not a position I would ever have imagined supporting 10 years ago.

 

Agree with that Tim. My father in law has always considered Saddam the lesser of two evils and both his parents were killed by him.

[aintforever]

http://bit.ly/1Z097lk from the Spectator

 

Interesting link, this bit particularly rings true; " To an extent, what is happening in the Middle East is what happens when America and the West suddenly lose interest."

 

Militarily IS are **** all, for all the big talk in the media the UK and US don't give a ****e about those areas of Iraq and Syria. Most of the oil producing parts of Iraq are secure, that's all that matters. We've gone in, secured the oil, and left the place to rot.

[Batman]

the whole area is generally barbaric.

[Sour Mash]

Aren't the German people lucky Merkel has forced this upon them;

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35208669

 

Meanwhile, Britain is still producing this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35228558

[hypochondriac]

Aren't the German people lucky Merkel has forced this upon them;

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35208669

 

Meanwhile, Britain is still producing this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35228558

 

I'm glad we are bringing over some vulnerable families and children but I'm incredibly thankful that we didn't bow to political pressure and let anyone in who wanted to come. The lawless behaviour described above is abhorrent and could easily have happened here.

[Batman]

Aren't the German people lucky Merkel has forced this upon them;

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35208669

 

Meanwhile, Britain is still producing this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35228558

we must live and let live. these people need our help and we MUST open our doors to help heal their heartache

 

I find it amusing that people in Germany are shocked and surprised. What on earth did they expect?

[holepuncture]

we must live and let live. these people need our help and we MUST open our doors to help heal their heartache

 

I find it amusing that people in Germany are shocked and surprised. What on earth did they expect?

 

Inevitable or not it is still shocking and I am sad for the Germans who have had this put upon them. They only had to look at what has happened in the UK with the rape of thousands of English children by these muslim gangs in areas such as Rotherham. Or they could have asked Sweden how the locals get treated there.

 

Live and let live maybe, but we will be paying for these people for the rest of our lives.

 

They're a danger to us all.

[hypochondriac]

Inevitable or not it is still shocking and I am sad for the Germans who have had this put upon them. They only had to look at what has happened in the UK with the rape of thousands of English children by these muslim gangs in areas such as Rotherham. Or they could have asked Sweden how the locals get treated there.

 

Live and let live maybe, but we will be paying for these people for the rest of our lives.

 

They're a danger to us all.

 

You realise he was being sarcastic? I think it's important to recognise here the actual asylum seekers who are running for their lives. It's a really damming situation now and was largely caused by not processing those coming in correctly and letting everyone in who showed up claiming to be a refugee from Syria. Many more checks should have been made and efforts to welcome genuine cases whilst sending back he rest. This problem is because of that.

[holepuncture]

You realise he was being sarcastic? I think it's important to recognise here the actual asylum seekers who are running for their lives. It's a really damming situation now and was largely caused by not processing those coming in correctly and letting everyone in who showed up claiming to be a refugee from Syria. Many more checks should have been made and efforts to welcome genuine cases whilst sending back he rest. This problem is because of that.

 

I am aware of the sarcasm, though it does sum up the naive mentality of Europe too.

 

You make a good point and I commend our government on their stance, they are dealing with the situation in the right way in my opinion by tackling the issue at source, supporting those in genuine need and not supporting the people trafficking industry.

 

Harsh as it may sound, we must not forget that the people committing these crimes in Germany are not refugees, they forfeited that name whilst marching across numerous African, ME and EU states, who are all signed up to the UN refugee convention.

 

It's too late now though, we will be paying for this for the rest of our lives.

[hypochondriac]

Just watched a show on BBC about Muslim attitudes to homosexuality in Britain. Absolutely shocking and disgusting attitudes from some.

[whelk]

Just watched a show on BBC about Muslim attitudes to homosexuality in Britain. Absolutely shocking and disgusting attitudes from some.

 

Didn't see it but I don't think I would be shocked as Islam is basically a religion at odds with our Western liberal values. Many feel we in west live lifestyles like Sodom and Gommorah.

 

Our live and let live attitudes do need apply to others though including religious beliefs as baffling as they may be to some. Look at the furore around Tyson Fury comments which I imagine are pretty similar in view to many other Muslims and some Christians. It is like we can't tolerate those with views different from our own.

 

There is an aggressive liberalism/humanism though that seems to be wanting to pile on to anyone in the name of righteousness rather than applying 'live and let live'.

Edited 6 January, 2016 by whelk

[whelk]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12083922/Grandfather-of-four-year-old-in-Isil-execution-video-told-police-to-watch-boys-mother.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Hard to know if info was completely dismissed but if so at odds with the message of frustration reported in Times other day that Muslim community not notifying authorities about those that become radicalised.

[Batman]

Just read a piece saying that how much the general British attitude to terrorists has changed.

 

30 years ago, those who threatened the UK had their voices banned from being broadcast in our country.

Now, the BBC invite them on to their shows.

 

The bloke who is suspected to be the new 'Jihadi John' was a guest on The Sunday Morning Live Show within the last 18 months

[hutch]

I'm not sure you can assume that the BBC content is representative of the general "British attitude" any more. The point you make would be more accurately levied at the decline in moral, ethical and professional standards at the BBC rather than the British public in general.

[Batman]

I'm not sure you can assume that the BBC content is representative of the general "British attitude" any more. The point you make would be more accurately levied at the decline in moral, ethical and professional standards at the BBC rather than the British public in general.

 

fair point

[Sour Mash]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12083922/Grandfather-of-four-year-old-in-Isil-execution-video-told-police-to-watch-boys-mother.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Hard to know if info was completely dismissed but if so at odds with the message of frustration reported in Times other day that Muslim community not notifying authorities about those that become radicalised.

No, it's not at odds, the bloke who reported this issue to the authorities wasn't muslim.

[sadoldgit]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12083922/Grandfather-of-four-year-old-in-Isil-execution-video-told-police-to-watch-boys-mother.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Hard to know if info was completely dismissed but if so at odds with the message of frustration reported in Times other day that Muslim community not notifying authorities about those that become radicalised.

 

That wasn't strictly the case though was it? The same article said that up to about 300 bits of information had come in from Muslim sources so clearly some information is coming in.

[holepuncture]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35239503

 

Some held up signs demanding action from Chancellor Angela Merkel.

...

Witnesses and police said that the men involved were of Arab or North African appearance.

...

Protesters held placards saying "Mrs Merkel: Where are you? What do you say? This alarms us"

...

However, the city's police chief, Wolfgang Albers, said no arrests had yet been made over the New Year's Eve attacks.

"We don't currently have any suspects, so we don't know who the perpetrators were," he said.

"All we know is that the police at the scene perceived that it was mostly young men aged 18 to 35 from the Arab or North African region."

...

One man described how his partner and 15-year-old daughter were surrounded by a crowd outside the station and he was unable to help. "The attackers grabbed her and my partner's breasts and groped them between their legs."

 

Well done to the German women for speaking out about this, unfortunately they're the ones who will become victims of this violent culture Merkel has forced upon her population.

 

Disgusting.

[hutch]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35239503

 

 

 

Well done to the German women for speaking out about this, unfortunately they're the ones who will become victims of this violent culture Merkel has forced upon her population.

 

Disgusting.

...unless they cover themselves up properly, and only go out accompanied by a male relative?

[whelk]

That wasn't strictly the case though was it? The same article said that up to about 300 bits of information had come in from Muslim sources so clearly some information is coming in.

 

No you misunderstood the point that Muslim community had vetoed it in effect by calling it racist. You focuses kn and championed that 300 bits of info was a success and failed to recognise that the story was about it not being embraced and no one else thought is successful

[whelk]

No, it's not at odds, the bloke who reported this issue to the authorities wasn't muslim.

 

I nearly highlighted that bit as well.

[Batman]

Officials from the local council now say Cologne City Centre is now a 'no go area' for women.

 

I mean, what the actual fuk?

Initial reports of this was kept quiet as not paint North African and Arabs in a bad light?

 

What a fuking mess. But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world.........

 

 

the whole EU liberal approach to this mess is nothing short of embarrassing and dangerous.

The only winner here is Germany really.

Edited 6 January, 2016 by Batman

[sadoldgit]

Officials from the local council now say Cologne City Centre is now a 'no go area' for women.

 

I mean, what the actual fuk?

Initial reports of this was kept quiet as not paint North African and Arabs in a bad light?

 

What a fuking mess. But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world.........

 

 

the whole EU liberal approach to this mess is nothing short of embarrassing and dangerous.

The only winner here is Germany really.

 

Ah, so are we are getting nearer an answer to the question of whether you agree with Donald Trump and would close the border to Muslims! I also love your line "But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world." You are right, the sooner all countries close their borders to everyone else the world will be a better place!

[buctootim]

The bloke who is suspected to be the new 'Jihadi John' was a guest on The Sunday Morning Live Show within the last 18 months

 

ie before he was a terrorist.

[Guan 2.0]

Ah, so are we are getting nearer an answer to the question of whether you agree with Donald Trump and would close the border to Muslims! I also love your line "But as long as the luvvies keep demanding that we open our borders to the whole world." You are right, the sooner all countries close their borders to everyone else the world will be a better place!

 

Yes that's exactly what he said. Exactly that. Batman stated (and I'm sure you can quote him) "There is a binary choice when it comes to borders. Open or closed. Those are the only two options. Controlled borders and conditionally open borders are concepts which no global organisations have recognised as a concept or term and have been around since the the introduction of borders as we understand them today. I love Donald Trump and agree with everything he says. One thing I can't grasp is that I sometimes feel like I'm made of straw".

 

Doomed by his own words.

[sadoldgit]

Yes that's exactly what he said. Exactly that. Batman stated (and I'm sure you can quote him) "There is a binary choice when it comes to borders. Open or closed. Those are the only two options. Controlled borders and conditionally open borders are concepts which no global organisations have recognised as a concept or term and have been around since the the introduction of borders as we understand them today. I love Donald Trump and agree with everything he says. One thing I can't grasp is that I sometimes feel like I'm made of straw".

 

Doomed by his own words.

 

What is it you're are taking Guan? You might want to review the dosage.

Edited 6 January, 2016 by sadoldgit
typo pointed out by Guan. Thanks!

[Guan 2.0]

What is it you're are talking Guan? You might want to review the dosage.

 

Just going over yet another one of your posts, where you've invented a position to argue against, and claimed someone is proposing something they haven't actually given backing to, and given the quotes which would justify it as anywhere near your interpretation.

 

It's a simple device to show how ludicrous your post was. Most people would comprehend this, but I know you like to play dumb(er?) in situations like this.

 

P.S. "What is it you're are talking Guan? You might want to review the dosage" makes no sense. Did you mean taking? If so, ironic from a man who sees non-existent arguments everywhere.