Jump to content

Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES


sadoldgit

Recommended Posts

I would suggest the number doing that is far higher. Besides, he didn't say those who were directly involved in the execution of terrorism did he? Apologies if he did but I took it to encompass all those who support it either through their actions or their views. I would guess that number is a large amount. Possibly not vast though but that's a matter on opinion as vast isn't really quantifiable.

 

He said "a number hold similar views... hence the sheer volume of terrorist attacks".

 

My points are that 1) I don't think there have been that many attacks 2) it doesn't take that many people to conduct them and 3) either way they're a tiny proportion of the people they claim to share a religion with, so associating extremist activity with ALL people who share a couple of similar traits is ridiculous nonsense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's your third point I take issue with. It's true that that would be ridiculous, but no one has done that as far as I can tell.

 

He's suggesting that we stop the flow of muslim immigration into Europe. It you're going to achieve that, how would that be feasible without putting everyone under the same umbrella?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He said "a number hold similar views... hence the sheer volume of terrorist attacks".

 

My points are that 1) I don't think there have been that many attacks 2) it doesn't take that many people to conduct them and 3) either way they're a tiny proportion of the people they claim to share a religion with, so associating extremist activity with ALL people who share a couple of similar traits is ridiculous nonsense.

You don't think there have been "that many attacks" :lol:

 

Give us a shout when you think there's been quite a few won't you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's suggesting that we stop the flow of muslim immigration into Europe. It you're going to achieve that, how would that be feasible without putting everyone under the same umbrella?
Why is it "putting everyone under the same umbrella", because you stop the flow of immigration that has brought in terrorists?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's suggesting that we stop the flow of muslim immigration into Europe. It you're going to achieve that, how would that be feasible without putting everyone under the same umbrella?

 

I definitely think there should be more stringent checks at the border. If we have to let them in due to the crisis as they have nowhere else to go then as unpalatable as it is to some, they should be held somewhere securely whilst they are processed properly. It does appear that security across borders has been very lax and terrorists have been able to take advantage of this. It's a very difficult situation and there are no easy answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I definitely think there should be more stringent checks at the border. If we have to let them in due to the crisis as they have nowhere else to go then as unpalatable as it is to some, they should be held somewhere securely whilst they are processed properly. It does appear that security across borders has been very lax and terrorists have been able to take advantage of this. It's a very difficult situation and there are no easy answers.

 

I don't disagree with having a process to vet anyone moving across borders but much of ISIS make up consists of 2nd, 3rd generation etc migrants who are European citizens which has little to do with the migrant crisis caused by the ISIS presence in Syria and Iraq to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is it "putting everyone under the same umbrella", because you stop the flow of immigration that has brought in terrorists?

 

It's a question for you. How would you curb the flow of Muslim immigration into Europe through fear that a proportion would be extremist without effectively saying that Muslims are dangerous?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't disagree with having a process to vet anyone moving across borders but much of ISIS make up consists of 2nd, 3rd generation etc migrants who are European citizens which has little to do with the migrant crisis caused by the ISIS presence in Syria and Iraq to begin with.

 

True, it may be the case that "they" are already here. However they need weapons, ammunition and explosives and for this reason alone, border controls need to be tightened. Wasn't a chap linked to the Paris attacks stopped with a car full of automatic weapons and explosives?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a question for you. How would you curb the flow of Muslim immigration into Europe through fear that a proportion would be extremist without effectively saying that Muslims are dangerous?
If your interpretation of controlling immigration from countries such as Syria is that it means that all muslims are terrorists, that's your own problem.

 

We control migration from other parts of the world effectively, I can't see anyone stating that everyone in those countries is a terrorist.

 

Its not a complex, novel suggestion - controlling borders and limiting migration is sensible, normal process in most developed countries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to Paris recently. I didn't just wander over there. My passport was checked a couple of times and my bags were checked. I wouldn't say it is a free for all although clearly if you have access to fake passports it is easier. I still don't think it is that easy to move guns and ammunition around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't disagree with having a process to vet anyone moving across borders but much of ISIS make up consists of 2nd, 3rd generation etc migrants who are European citizens which has little to do with the migrant crisis caused by the ISIS presence in Syria and Iraq to begin with.

 

That's a separate issue. I'd want to sort out the issue caused by migration first and then tackle things at home. That's sort of up to the nation involved to police though with the security services and vigilance etc much as you do with other types of organised crime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your interpretation of controlling immigration from countries such as Syria is that it means that all muslims are terrorists, that's your own problem.

 

We control migration from other parts of the world effectively, I can't see anyone stating that everyone in those countries is a terrorist.

 

Its not a complex, novel suggestion - controlling borders and limiting migration is sensible, normal process in most developed countries.

 

Migrants from Syria in the volumes we're seeing now are an anomaly and a symptom of the presence of ISIS coupled with the brutality of the Assad regime. That needs to be looked at in isolation and better controlled. More broadly, our immigration policy can't be based on peoples religion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Migrants from Syria in the volumes we're seeing now are an anomaly and a symptom of the presence of ISIS coupled with the brutality of the Assad regime. That needs to be looked at in isolation and better controlled. More broadly, our immigration policy can't be based on peoples religion.
But we can and should stop immigration from countries that produce terrorists.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your interpretation of controlling immigration from countries such as Syria is that it means that all muslims are terrorists, that's your own problem.

 

We control migration from other parts of the world effectively, I can't see anyone stating that everyone in those countries is a terrorist.

 

Its not a complex, novel suggestion - controlling borders and limiting migration is sensible, normal process in most developed countries.

 

Er... at the rate of 500,000 a year coming in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to Paris recently. I didn't just wander over there. My passport was checked a couple of times and my bags were checked. I wouldn't say it is a free for all although clearly if you have access to fake passports it is easier. I still don't think it is that easy to move guns and ammunition around.

 

You were travelling from UK though, presumably. Travelling between Schengen area nations is a lot more relaxed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He said "a number hold similar views... hence the sheer volume of terrorist attacks".

 

My points are that 1) I don't think there have been that many attacks 2) it doesn't take that many people to conduct them and 3) either way they're a tiny proportion of the people they claim to share a religion with, so associating extremist activity with ALL people who share a couple of similar traits is ridiculous nonsense.

 

In the last year alone there's been 7 serious plots just in the UK alone foiled. Sounds pretty complacent to try and downplay the extent of threat we face.

Edited by Orange
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is as i understand it we have little control really in the long run how many we let in because if mad Merkel has her way and issues hundreds of thousands of people citizenship/refugee status, surely they then have the right to then come to the UK if we're to stay within the EU and the free movement of people?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But we can and should stop immigration from countries that produce terrorists.

 

That's quite a list and would include Ireland, Spain and the USA and as most of the Paris attackers came from France and Belgium those two countries a well I guess. Actually I'm all for the last one as it would really bugger up spurs defence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is as i understand it we have little control really in the long run how many we let in because if mad Merkel has her way and issues hundreds of thousands of people citizenship/refugee status, surely they then have the right to then come to the UK if we're to stay within the EU and the free movement of people?

 

The right to free movement in the EU is limited. There has to be a job for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The right to free movement in the EU is limited. There has to be a job for them.

 

But if I recall correctly the amount of remuneration is not important. As long as they're making some money you can't chuck them out. So if you have 5 immigrants sharing 1 position that's AOK and they can apply for supplementary benefits to make up the numbers.

Edited by Window Cleaner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if I recall correctly the amount of remuneration is not important. As long as they're making some money you can't chuck them out. So if you have 5 immigrants sharing 1 position that's AOK and they can apply for supplementary benefits to make up the numbers.

 

What on earth are you talking about? Some evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon would be a start.

Edited by shurlock
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Very interesting Jimmy. Particularly interesting was this bit:

 

A Singaporean Muslim's Facebook post was addressed to those Muslims who he feels are too quick to disavow any connection between the Islamic State and Islam. "ISIS is Islam's biggest enemy, not the US, not Israel or France or Germany or the Russians," wrote Sulaiman Daud in a status shared nearly 40,000 times. "We have to own the problem. We have to admit that this is a religious problem, and we need to renew our commitment to a secular country which treats all religions equally."

"ISIS is a problem for Muslims. And if you can't admit that, you're not really a good Muslim either," he wrote.

 

If what he writes is true, then it makes a mockery of posts from earlier in the thread moaning because other posters considered this a problem within the Islamic religion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose all the rage we see on this thread is kind of understandable, if ultimately misguided I think. It is equally clear that those who surrender to hatred so readily are not about to listen to what calmer voices might try to say to them on here.

 

But perhaps they might at least pause for a moment and listen to someone who has a hell of a lot more cause to feel anger than they do, but nevertheless refuses to surrender himself to hatred. The words of Antoine Leiris - a man as remarkable as he is wise methinks.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very interesting Jimmy. Particularly interesting was this bit:

 

 

 

If what he writes is true, then it makes a mockery of posts from earlier in the thread moaning because other posters considered this a problem within the Islamic religion.

 

Interesting you ignore the other 'random' further down the page, discussing how religious verses have been robbed of their historical context.

 

If, of course, what he says is true :lol: Make a mockery - you couldn't be more pompous and disingenuous.

Edited by shurlock
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's quite a list and would include Ireland, Spain and the USA and as most of the Paris attackers came from France and Belgium those two countries a well I guess. Actually I'm all for the last one as it would really bugger up spurs defence.

And the UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who previously were unaware of the cartoon, (i hadn't seen it), the cartoon is below. I can't speak to exactly what the cartoonist was reaching for, but my inference (and i realise this is my opinion only) is that the cartoonist is labelling all Migrants that are being processed throughout the EU as out-and-out Jhihadis, otherwise sinister 'Fellow Travellers' or a literal pack of rats. It's as nonsensical as it is mean spirited.

 

 

2E82312A00000578-3321431-image-a-133_1447721942823.jpg

 

However, I find some of the other reaction just as wilfully blind. Imagine on the Piano, Flowers will defeat Bullets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPpoQwicmE,

Free hugs, Ignoring Allahu Akbar chants during a minutes silence for the victims of Islamist violence etc.. These are beloved by the a section of the public, who for some reason feel a shield of goodwill would shelter them from any danger.

 

I wonder if those in the Bataclan would have rather had an Armed Policeman on hand while they were being literally gutted on the floor, tortured for the amusement of religious fanatics, or if they thought that flowers and candles would prove a sufficient deterrent to such actions occurring. I felt the Heavy Bombing of Raqqa was actually a measured response given the circumstances.

 

 

LiveLeak-dot-com-06d_1447585266-1447580314930_1447585311.jpg?format=750w

 

For free speech to take place, the original materials must be made available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who previously were unaware of the cartoon, (i hadn't seen it), the cartoon is below. I can't speak to exactly what the cartoonist was reaching for, but my inference (and i realise this is my opinion only) is that the cartoonist is labelling all Migrants that are being processed throughout the EU as out-and-out Jhihadis, otherwise sinister 'Fellow Travellers' or a literal pack of rats. It's as nonsensical as it is mean spirited.

 

 

2E82312A00000578-3321431-image-a-133_1447721942823.jpg

 

However, I find some of the other reaction just as wilfully blind. Imagine on the Piano, Flowers will defeat Bullets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPpoQwicmE,

Free hugs, Ignoring Allahu Akbar chants during a minutes silence for the victims of Islamist violence etc.. These are beloved by the a section of the public, who for some reason feel a shield of goodwill would shelter them from any danger.

 

I wonder if those in the Bataclan would have rather had an Armed Policeman on hand while they were being literally gutted on the floor, tortured for the amusement of religious fanatics, or if they thought that flowers and candles would prove a sufficient deterrent to such actions occurring. I felt the Heavy Bombing of Raqqa was actually a measured response given the circumstances.

 

 

LiveLeak-dot-com-06d_1447585266-1447580314930_1447585311.jpg?format=750w

 

For free speech to take place, the original materials must be made available.

It's a terrible cartoon mainly because it doesn't make sense.

 

He could have been saying the rats are the terrorists alongside non terrorist migrants, but he can't because one of the men is carrying over a gun.

 

So it would just about make sense with no rats and just the gun man, or no gun man and just the rats (although wouldn't approve of that, as pretty lazy and unnecessary).

 

It's as offensive as a badly executed cartoon as it is plain offensive. Just dopey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New report highlights ‘sharp rise’ in anti-Muslim attacks and ‘environment of hate’ in Britain

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-report-highlights-sharp-rise-in-anti-muslim-attacks-and-environment-of-hate-in-britain-a6739596.html

 

Some of this needs to be taking with a pinch of salt the Tell MAMA stats for example have been questioned in the past (mostly because they don't have a definition for a Muslim attack)

Edited by doddisalegend
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With regard to the 'immigrant / terrorist' issue, Abdelhamid Abaaoud was born and raised in Belgium. His father moved there in 1975. It would seem the issue may rather be the radicalisation of 'home grown' disaffected teens.

 

Edit; sorry if I've simply reiterated something that has already been added to the thread, but it is getting difficult to separate the discussion from the b!tching.

Edited by badgerx16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With regard to the 'immigrant / terrorist' issue, Abdelhamid Abaaoud was born and raised in Belgium. His father moved there in 1975. It would seem the issue may rather be the radicalisation of 'home grown' disaffected teens.

 

A reporter the other night was talking of an area in Brussels where a lot of disaffected young men lived that was rife with crime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A reporter the other night was talking of an area in Brussels where a lot of disaffected young men lived that was rife with crime.

 

A commentator on the BBC radio news said the weapons were probably sourced from the local criminal underworld, with whom the terrorists made acquaintance whilst in jail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...