Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[buctootim]

TBF I'm not sure how effective it is in the age of the internet. The people you don't want it to affect like potential copycats are already going to know his name. It is quite unedifying though when we go through all the personal details of the killer which does make him appear to be special or some sort of celebrity so I'd be happy with starving him of publicity for that reason.

 

Personally what I think would work better is a concerted effort to humiliate and belittle the killers. Pull up every embarrassing thing he has said and mock him relentlessly and make it clear that that will be the fate of anyone who attempts to do something like this thinking they might get some sort of fame. I bet that would have more of an effect.

 

Quoting yourself and then arguing against what you wrote? Multiple personalities or logins?

[hypochondriac]

Quoting yourself and then arguing against what you wrote? Multiple personalities or logins?

 

I'm on a phone and quoted myself in error. I should have edited the original post.

[sadoldgit]

The name will always find it's way to the surface.

 

The least personal publicity these scumbags get the better. He will soon just become another nameless nutter who will rot in jail having achieved nothing other causing meaningless heartache.

[van Hanegem]

I see that the Dutch have found some sort of document in the suspect's vehicle that seem to point to a terrorist motive.

 

This fine Turkish lad was a burglar, a shoplifter and a rapist and also accused of an attempt to murder. He was on parole because he had told the judge he would cooperate and take a psychological test. That's Dutch justice for you.

It's still not clear wether there was a terrorist motive or that it was just another "honor killing", my guess is that it has nothing to do with both and that it's just another imbecile who doesn't fit in Dutch society and took too many drugs.

[Window Cleaner]

This fine Turkish lad was a burglar, a shoplifter and a rapist and also accused of an attempt to murder. He was on parole because he had told the judge he would cooperate and take a psychological test. That's Dutch justice for you.

It's still not clear wether there was a terrorist motive or that it was just another "honor killing", my guess is that it has nothing to do with both and that it's just another imbecile who doesn't fit in Dutch society and took too many drugs.

 

So it's basically the same as in France then. Repetitive criminals walking the streets and being, well criminals because of a laxist judicial system. "Sorry your honour, I won't do it again promise". "Well that's alright then, off you go, let us know if you need more handouts".

[van Hanegem]

So it's basically the same as in France then. Repetitive criminals walking the streets and being, well criminals because of a laxist judicial system. "Sorry your honour, I won't do it again promise". "Well that's alright then, off you go, let us know if you need more handouts".

 

I didn't know French justice was also laxist, we get to hear stories about Dutchmen in French prisons begging to be transferred to a Dutch prison because they can't cope. Also, the stories about xenophobic police officers in France sound more real than the ones we get to hear about Dutch police officers. But judges could be the same of course.

[Lighthouse]

TBF I'm not sure how effective it is in the age of the internet. The people you don't want it to affect like potential copycats are already going to know his name. It is quite unedifying though when we go through all the personal details of the killer which does make him appear to be special or some sort of celebrity so I'd be happy with starving him of publicity for that reason.

 

Personally what I think would work better though is a concerted effort to humiliate and belittle the killers. Pull up every embarrassing thing he has said and mock him relentlessly and make it clear that that will be the fate of anyone who attempts to do something like this thinking they might get some sort of fame. I bet that would have more of an effect.

 

There’s a massive difference between having you name, picture and life story all over the pictures and being named by a few of the foil hat wearing nutters on Twitter. Besides, for every source correctly naming him, there will be 1000 more attention seeking weirdos coming up with their own names and theories.

 

I guess you can’t ban people from naming names but it would be helpful if the media outlets agreed to it from a moral POV. We can still have the details, where they’re from, religious beliefs, cause, ethnicity etc. - Information which is of genuine public interest, without publishing anything personal.

[Window Cleaner]

I didn't know French justice was also laxist, we get to hear stories about Dutchmen in French prisons begging to be transferred to a Dutch prison because they can't cope. Also, the stories about xenophobic police officers in France sound more real than the ones we get to hear about Dutch police officers. But judges could be the same of course.

 

Oh but yes, most of the perpetrators of serious, including terrorist, crimes these last few years should have been behind bars.

Even then they're still a menace, one took his chance of a couple of days in a "family unit" to stab a few warders. Unluckily for him the GIGN shot dead his missus who helped him do it.

[hypochondriac]

There’s a massive difference between having you name, picture and life story all over the pictures and being named by a few of the foil hat wearing nutters on Twitter. Besides, for every source correctly naming him, there will be 1000 more attention seeking weirdos coming up with their own names and theories.

 

I guess you can’t ban people from naming names but it would be helpful if the media outlets agreed to it from a moral POV. We can still have the details, where they’re from, religious beliefs, cause, ethnicity etc. - Information which is of genuine public interest, without publishing anything personal.

 

Yes but if the point is to discourage people from replicating what he's done, then they are going to be the ones you want to look out for. 99.9% of regular people are going to be sickened by this regardless of if the details of the killer comes out or not and those who would be encouraged by it are going to find out the details anyway. Much better IMO to make it plain to any potential copycats that they will be widely seen as the pathetic frauds that they are.

[Lighthouse]

Yes but if the point is to discourage people from replicating what he's done, then they are going to be the ones you want to look out for. 99.9% of regular people are going to be sickened by this regardless of if the details of the killer comes out or not and those who would be encouraged by it are going to find out the details anyway. Much better IMO to make it plain to any potential copycats that they will be widely seen as the pathetic frauds that they are.

 

The problem with that is that these people are so set in their beliefs that to ridicule them is to stiffen their resolve. Telling an Islamist or a neo-nazi he is an idiot and his beliefs are stupid only reinforces them. Look at the Brexit thread, both sides are getting more and more aggravated to the point that all arguments just end up polarised.

 

The problem, or in this case benefit, of twitter and the ‘fake news’ generation is that anyone can post anything, almost un-moderated. All you need is a few hundred nutters tweeting, "his name was Abdul Risaq from Luton" and "actually he was Mohammad Al Qabar, a Yemeni refugee," and suddenly the truth is washed away in a sea of misinformation.

 

Instead of being infamous to half of Europe, suddenly you’re just a rumour on an internet message board. It would be hugely disarming IMO.

Edited 19 March, 2019 by Lighthouse

[whelk]

I cannot recall names of one of these killers. Michael Ryan is only one. Can’t remember the Dunblane fcker.

 

NZ PM seems decent but token gesture really but get the sentiment

[Lighthouse]

I cannot recall names of one of these killers. Michael Ryan is only one. Can’t remember the Dunblane fcker.

 

NZ PM seems decent but token gesture really but get the sentiment

 

It’s only token if nobody else does it. If the rest of the world followed suit, it’d work.

[whelk]

It’s only token if nobody else does it. If the rest of the world followed suit, it’d work.

 

They are quite forgettable anyway, what will actually work?

[Lighthouse]

They are quite forgettable anyway, what will actually work?

 

Probably handing their corpses over to a rampant necrophiliac and broadcasting a video of him bumming them into next week, across the world.

 

Sadly there's law's and stuff against that. My serious suggestion wont put people off committing atrocities but it might encourage them a bit less. If just one Manchester bomber or NZ gunman develops an indifference to his cause, it's worth doing.

[hypochondriac]

Probably handing their corpses over to a rampant necrophiliac and broadcasting a video of him bumming them into next week, across the world.

 

Sadly there's law's and stuff against that. My serious suggestion wont put people off committing atrocities but it might encourage them a bit less. If just one Manchester bomber or NZ gunman develops an indifference to his cause, it's worth doing.

But you could make the same argument for public ridicule. The key thing I suppose would be to find out what most motivates these people.

[brmbrm]

I cannot recall names of one of these killers. Michael Ryan is only one. Can’t remember the Dunblane fcker.

 

NZ PM seems decent but token gesture really but get the sentiment

 

Its ****ing miles away from a token gesture here (I live in Auckland). The support for moslems and indeed all immigrants, minorities etc in NZ is bloody great. The sense of togetherness and love is almost overwhelming, and me an atheist.

 

Token gesture? No. Come and see for yourself.

[Jonnyboy]

But you could make the same argument for public ridicule. The key thing I suppose would be to find out what most motivates these people.

 

Well one expert has an opinion:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/20/newspapers-help-radicalise-far-right-uk-anti-terror-chief-neil-basu

Not one you'd agree with though.

[Window Cleaner]

I see that someone has been smashing windows and stuff in Birmigham mosques. Police say that they are "unsure" of the motives. Must have a fair old idea though right ?

Aren't there problems with LGBT teaching around Birmingham just now? Opposed by?

This will not end well.

[Window Cleaner]

I didn't know French justice was also laxist, we get to hear stories about Dutchmen in French prisons begging to be transferred to a Dutch prison because they can't cope. Also, the stories about xenophobic police officers in France sound more real than the ones we get to hear about Dutch police officers. But judges could be the same of course.

 

So anyway your "fine Turkish lad" is being charged with Terrorist Homicides". Looks to have been a bit costly for Rutte, lost his majority in the Senate hasn't he?

[van Hanegem]

So anyway your "fine Turkish lad" is being charged with Terrorist Homicides". Looks to have been a bit costly for Rutte, lost his majority in the Senate hasn't he?

 

Yup, he’s been charged with terrorist homocides though the police said they still don’t know if it has anything to do with jihadism. We still don’t know what was written on the note found in the getaway car. But two of his brothers fought in Chechnya against the Russians because of their belief so maybe this influenced him. I still don’t see him as a true jihadist because of his recent “activities” and the way his neighbourhood describes him as a mad person always looking for a fight. But then again, most of the idiots who wanted to fight for Isis were criminals rejected by society. Though they were usually brainwashed by some radical imam which appears not to be the case with this fine Turkish lad.

 

The attack on monday didn’t really influence the outcome of the election, an enquiry amongst voters showed that a mere two percent of them said they changed their mind. In the polls before monday it was already clear that the new political movement (Forum voor Democratie) would become big. This has everything to do with more and more people getting fed up with the way the EU is operating, the immigration politics of Rutte & Co and also the ridiculous climatelaw they want to implement which will cost society at least 600 billion while it isn’t clear wether it will even lead to something worthwile.

[Portugalsaint]

It seems Shamima Begums solicitors have been granted legal aid to fight her case for her citizenship and passport to be returned.

 

What a waste of public funds. I can see trouble ahead regarding this. legal aid is particularly difficult to obtain these days to fight all sorts of cases including those against the disabled and the DWP etc.

[hypochondriac]

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

So now that we can be pretty sure that she was not "just a housewife" presumably your opinion will have changed? Or will you be sticking doggedly to your position regardless of the facts as per usual?

[hypochondriac]

It seems Shamima Begums solicitors have been granted legal aid to fight her case for her citizenship and passport to be returned.

 

What a waste of public funds. I can see trouble ahead regarding this. legal aid is particularly difficult to obtain these days to fight all sorts of cases including those against the disabled and the DWP etc.

It's a damn shame to be honest considering the Sunday paper revelations but I suppose you could argue that even the worst people in the world deserve legal representation. Its not easy to swallow though.

[sadoldgit]

It seems Shamima Begums solicitors have been granted legal aid to fight her case for her citizenship and passport to be returned.

 

What a waste of public funds. I can see trouble ahead regarding this. legal aid is particularly difficult to obtain these days to fight all sorts of cases including those against the disabled and the DWP etc.

 

It is ridiculous that it has come to this and it would not have been necessary if the Government hadn't stripped a British citizen of her citizenship in an effort to suck up to the far right. I am pretty sure is illegal according to international law.

 

As for the comments from my internet stalker, if he bothered to read what I have actually written several times on this thread, rather than read what he thought I said, he would see very clearly that I do not have a problem with Shamima Begum facing the justice system if she returns to this country and there is a case for her to answer to.

 

His comments are worrying though. Apparently we are "pretty sure" that she was not just a housewife and these are backed up by "facts." What facts exactly are these hypo? A couple of newspapers have printed some allegations apparently coming from people who use to know Begum. At what point have these become "facts?" They are not facts, they are allegations and we cannot be "pretty sure" about anything until these allegations are proven to be "facts." Unless of course you are an Islamophobe and then, obviously, Muslims are guilty by association. You give yourself away time and again mate.

 

I shall take your apology for misrepresenting my position on this person as read.

 

Here is a little tip for you hypo, if you are going to accuse someone of making themselves look foolish on here, probably best not do it yourself too, eh pet?

[ecuk268]

It is ridiculous that it has come to this and it would not have been necessary if the Government hadn't stripped a British citizen of her citizenship in an effort to suck up to the far right.

 

Probably Sajid Javid staking his claim for the Tory Party leadership by showing how "tough" he is.

 

With the Tories in chaos they need to make some effort to stop the gammons going off to the increasingly weird UKIP or Farage's new lot.

[hypochondriac]

It is ridiculous that it has come to this and it would not have been necessary if the Government hadn't stripped a British citizen of her citizenship in an effort to suck up to the far right. I am pretty sure is illegal according to international law.

 

As for the comments from my internet stalker, if he bothered to read what I have actually written several times on this thread, rather than read what he thought I said, he would see very clearly that I do not have a problem with Shamima Begum facing the justice system if she returns to this country and there is a case for her to answer to.

 

His comments are worrying though. Apparently we are "pretty sure" that she was not just a housewife and these are backed up by "facts." What facts exactly are these hypo? A couple of newspapers have printed some allegations apparently coming from people who use to know Begum. At what point have these become "facts?" They are not facts, they are allegations and we cannot be "pretty sure" about anything until these allegations are proven to be "facts." Unless of course you are an Islamophobe and then, obviously, Muslims are guilty by association. You give yourself away time and again mate.

 

I shall take your apology for misrepresenting my position on this person as read.

 

Here is a little tip for you hypo, if you are going to accuse someone of making themselves look foolish on here, probably best not do it yourself too, eh pet?

The allegations are from victims of IS. Personally I'd be more inclined to believe victims of the terrorist regime than someone who ran off to support them and its now in her interest to play down her involvement in it. It's really really odd that you'd prefer to side with the terrorist in order to suit your twisted ideology.

[ashnats]

It is ridiculous that it has come to this and it would not have been necessary if the Government hadn't stripped a British citizen of her citizenship in an effort to suck up to the far right. I am pretty sure is illegal according to international law.

 

As for the comments from my internet stalker, if he bothered to read what I have actually written several times on this thread, rather than read what he thought I said, he would see very clearly that I do not have a problem with Shamima Begum facing the justice system if she returns to this country and there is a case for her to answer to.

 

His comments are worrying though. Apparently we are "pretty sure" that she was not just a housewife and these are backed up by "facts." What facts exactly are these hypo? A couple of newspapers have printed some allegations apparently coming from people who use to know Begum. At what point have these become "facts?" They are not facts, they are allegations and we cannot be "pretty sure" about anything until these allegations are proven to be "facts." Unless of course you are an Islamophobe and then, obviously, Muslims are guilty by association. You give yourself away time and again mate.

 

I shall take your apology for misrepresenting my position on this person as read.

 

Here is a little tip for you hypo, if you are going to accuse someone of making themselves look foolish on here, probably best not do it yourself too, eh pet?

 

Tldr summary: #believe her

[Portugalsaint]

Apparently according The the Jeremy Vine programme today, her family have applied for legal aid for her. Legal aid has not been granted as yet. Someone did ring into the programme who used to work for the LA and said that criminals of all types got legal aid including the Krays. The problem is that Begum is no longer a UK citizen so this could be a problem for the family.

 

Other countries have stripped their nationals of their citizenship. France and the Netherlands to name a couple.

 

It also appears that in northern Iraq and also northern Syria, where there is no sympathy for these people they are being given 15 minute hearings then determining whether they are executed or imprisoned.

[Lighthouse]

All kicking off in Sri Lanka, at least 8 separate bombings reported at Easter church services.

[Saint86]

Terrible what has happened in Sri Lanka, completely out of the blue as well.

 

Almost feel like it is being done to hurt the economy with easter as an excuse. There has not been much previous history of violence aimed specifically at Christians. Absolutely abhorrent and one of the worst terror attacks of recent times.

[Heisenberg]

****. Was looking to book holiday to Sri Lanka 2020.

 

Its lonelyplanet destination of the year.

 

Horrible news

[buctootim]

****. Was looking to book holiday to Sri Lanka 2020.

 

Its lonelyplanet destination of the year.

 

Horrible news

Go, its an amazing place. Cant think of any other destination with so much to see in one relatively small area. Did you stop going to London when terrorists were mowing down tourists?

[whelk]

Don’t know how someone recovers from this

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sri-lanka-bombings-heartbreaking-tribute-14446702

[Batman]

Go, its an amazing place. Cant think of any other destination with so much to see in one relatively small area. Did you stop going to London when terrorists were mowing down tourists?

 

bit of a difference, though

But, Sri Lanka will probably be one of the safest places to visit now

[Lighthouse]

Don’t know how someone recovers from this

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sri-lanka-bombings-heartbreaking-tribute-14446702

 

You don't. Life can be appallingly cruel to people who usually don't deserve it.

[Batman]

You don't. Life can be appallingly cruel to people who usually don't deserve it.

 

Absolutely horrific.

Minding their own business and caught up on an apparent attack on Christianity/religion.

 

I find it fuking weird how people become religious let alone, kill in the name of it/against it

[badgerx16]

 

I find it fuking weird how people become religious let alone, kill in the name of it/against it

You're not tempted by all those virgins waiting for you in the afterlife ?

[Window Cleaner]

You're not tempted by all those virgins waiting for you in the afterlife ?

 

Doubt it would be any different from an average Fresher's Week in the 70s. Except that you'd not be dead of course, mind you...

Edited 23 April, 2019 by Window Cleaner

[hypochondriac]

You're not tempted by all those virgins waiting for you in the afterlife ?

If suicide bombing was a shortcut to paradise, the person convincing people of that would have already killed themselves

[badgerx16]

If suicide bombing was a shortcut to paradise, the person convincing people of that would have already killed themselves

Perhaps they realise that with every virgin, there comes her mother !

[hypochondriac]

Perhaps they realise that with every virgin, there comes her mother !

 

Good point.

[whelk]

Saying revenge for mosque shooting in NZ. Like the murderous cnts were tipped over the edge.

Obviously such sh1t helps their recruitment.

[buctootim]

bit of a difference, though

But, Sri Lanka will probably be one of the safest places to visit now

 

I went there in 2000 when the civil war was on. You'd never have known it as didnt see or hear about any trouble and everyone was so pleased I was there (because tourism had been hammered obviously). Before this I was actually thinking about taking my kids next summer. I wouldn't risk them, but as single guy given the chances of being caught up in anything are are about the same as winning the lottery, sure why not?

[whelk]

Hearing all the recap about the Borough market is so disturbing. Some very brave people and some absolute evil cnts.

[Window Cleaner]

There's been an explosion down in Lyon this afternoon, nail bomb in a popular throughfare apparently. A few injured, don't know more than that. Should stoke the RN vote a bit, even if it's not terrorist related.

[whelk]

So London Bridge thread was locked and no reason given.

Assume all the politics threads will go same way as surely must meet same criteria for locking?

 

Anyway the London Bridge bloke was out on licence but had a tag. Good old probation service and Boris already making noises that not acceptable. Will be nothing to with the Tories making the service not fit for purpose from cuts and Grayling’s outsourcing. Nothing at all. No magic money tree for 5th largest economy in the world you know to employee people to do a job. A joke.

Edited 30 November, 2019 by whelk

[doddisalegend]

So London Bridge thread was locked and no reason given.

Assume all the politics threads will go same way as surely must meet same criteria for locking?

 

Anyway the London Bridge bloke was out on licence but had a tag. Good old probation service and Boris already making noises that not acceptable. Will be nothing to with the Tories making the service not fit for purpose from cuts and Grayling’s outsourcing. Nothing at all. No magic money tree for 5th largest economy in the world you know to employee people to do a job. A joke.

 

I kind of naively thought if someone was convicted of terror offences and released from prison they would be kept under a very close eye on by the security services...apparently not. But yeah someone's head will roll for this but as you point out probably not the people really responsible.

Edited 30 November, 2019 by doddisalegend

[CB Fry]

Hats off to Tusk Man and The Extinguisher....sensational stuff.

 

..........................

 

 

These fellas are amazing. The terrorist has already killed 2 people, injured others and they chase him down with a whale tusk and a fire extinguisher. He’s wearing a suicide vest which they don’t know is fake.

Incredible. True heroes. #LondonBridge

https://t.co/0hduOInM9I

[doddisalegend]

Hats off to Tusk Man and The Extinguisher....sensational stuff.

 

..........................

 

 

These fellas are amazing. The terrorist has already killed 2 people, injured others and they chase him down with a whale tusk and a fire extinguisher. He’s wearing a suicide vest which they don’t know is fake.

Incredible. True heroes. #LondonBridge

https://t.co/0hduOInM9I

 

Very brave blokes.

 

We recently did "terrorist" training at work and we where basically told to run away, hide and only fight if you are cornered. It makes sense in a mass shooting because its hard to fight a guy with a gun if you aren't John McClane. In the case of knife attacks I can't help feeling fighting back as a group is more effective than scattering and running. Mind you its easy to say that sat safely in front of a computer who knows how your fight or flight reflex is going to react if you are ever involved in a mass terrorist stabbing. By fighting back these guys probably stopped it being much worse they deserve all the plaudits they get.

 

I have to wonder though where the hell do you come across a Narwhal horn in the middle of London bridge though

[Lord Duckhunter]

Hats off to Tusk Man and The Extinguisher....sensational stuff.

 

..........................

 

 

These fellas are amazing. The terrorist has already killed 2 people, injured others and they chase him down with a whale tusk and a fire extinguisher. He’s wearing a suicide vest which they don’t know is fake.

Incredible. True heroes. #LondonBridge

https://t.co/0hduOInM9I

 

Unbelievable bravery. To do that when the bloke could have a suicide vest on is unbelievable. There’s people alive today as a direct result of their actions.

 

 

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