Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Unbelievable Jeff]

How tragic that this evil woman had three children in this hell hole. She's responsible for these innocent children's deaths.

 

Yep. As you know in your profession, children are born innocent of all, and to think they'll never experience life is an utter tragedy.

[shurlock]

You reap what you sow. Perhaps if there were a few more Alan Hennings around doing nothing more than providing aid, conditions at these camps might be a bit more tolerable.

Edited 10 March, 2019 by shurlock

[whelk]

Yep. As you know in your profession, children are born innocent of all, and to think they'll never experience life is an utter tragedy.

 

Babies are dying everywhere. Are you genuinely upset by this?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Babies are dying everywhere. Are you genuinely upset by this?

 

I'm assuming by the way you are responding to this, you don't have children.

[aintforever]

The death of any baby is tragic, it’s particularly tragic for those forced to flee their homes because of the likes of Shamima Begum and her murder cult.

[whelk]

I'm assuming by the way you are responding to this, you don't have children.

 

Do you know how many babies died today? Are you lighting a candle for each one tragically having their life cut short? It clearly moves you so I wonder if you have endless reserves of empathy?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Do you know how many babies died today? Are you lighting a candle for each one tragically having their life cut short? It clearly moves you so I wonder if you have endless reserves of empathy?

 

I'm trying to work out what your point is here? Is it that we shouldn't care if babies die?

 

I assume I was right when I said you don't have kids.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The death of any baby is tragic, it’s particularly tragic for those forced to flee their homes because of the likes of Shamima Begum and her murder cult.

 

Absolutely.

[whelk]

I'm trying to work out what your point is here? Is it that we shouldn't care if babies die?

 

I assume I was right when I said you don't have kids.

 

My point is you calling it a tragedy whereas I said I was unmoved. You pompously take that as if that view cannot be held by a father.

 

No you are not correct

[whelk]

Absolutely.

 

So when does the innocence end and accountability start? Clearly not a baby but sometime before they turn 15 presumably?

[Lighthouse]

I'm trying to work out what your point is here? Is it that we shouldn't care if babies die?

 

I assume I was right when I said you don't have kids.

 

I think it comes back to the old Stalin quote; one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. Begum’s child is no more or less deserving of a chance at life than any other. The mere fact that you had heard of him makes it sad in your eyes but that’s not necessarily the case for everyone else. I’d say it’s just a brutal reminder of the facts of life personally.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

My point is you calling it a tragedy whereas I said I was unmoved. You pompously take that as if that view cannot be held by a father.

 

No you are not correct

 

There wasn't anything pompous about it. I never realised that a father could be so uncaring and callous. Why don't you think the death of a baby is tragic?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So when does the innocence end and accountability start? Clearly not a baby but sometime before they turn 15 presumably?

 

I think it would be different for people of different intellect and maturity, but if you can get yourself to Turkey, and across the Syrian border then I think you can probably be held as accountable.

[egg]

I think it would be different for people of different intellect and maturity, but if you can get yourself to Turkey, and across the Syrian border then I think you can probably be held as accountable.

This. If she'd joined a murderous gang in this country at age 15 she'd be arrested and tried as someone presumed to have the capacity to be accountable for her actions. It's odd how some people seem to think that the age for accountability should be higher in this particular case.

[sadoldgit]

The death of any baby is tragic, it’s particularly tragic for those forced to flee their homes because of the likes of Shamima Begum and her murder cult.

 

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

[Lighthouse]

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

 

You have to be joking.

 

Are you actually comparing someone joining ISIS to rape victims?

Edited 11 March, 2019 by Lighthouse

[whelk]

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

 

You are special

[hypochondriac]

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

Jesus christ. You are a parody, I refuse to believe that someone like you exists in real life.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

 

Always comes back to rape with you. Why is that?

[sadoldgit]

Always comes back to rape with you. Why is that?

 

I often wonderful if you are being deliberately obtuse just for the sake of an argument Jeff?

Go back and read my post again. Where do I mention rape?

For the sake of clarity, my point is that suseptical people are often targeted by people for their own nefarious purposes. As I said, there is a strong suggestion that this person was groomed from an early age. Certainly her family did not encourage her to go to Syria. It is a rational move for a child who is barely a teenager to head off to a war zone to raise a family?

If it is the case that she was targeted and groomed from an early age, is it right to hold her wholly responsible for her actions?

And before you choose to misinterpret me again, I am not suggesting that she does not face the justice system should she ever return to the UK. All people are liable to the same system no matter what their religious background or crime, don’t you agree? Which makes it all the more strange that we have stripped mothers and supposed non combatants of their UK citizenship but let men and possible terrorists back in.

[ashnats]

So when does the innocence end and accountability start? Clearly not a baby but sometime before they turn 15 presumably?

 

by law, it's 10 yrs old in England and Wales. 8 yrs old in Scotland. 7 yrs old in Syria.

[hypochondriac]

Some interesting words from a Yazidi woman who has paid a terrible price because of people like Shamima.

 

Pari Ibrahim:*I lost 19 girls from my family – two of them came back but 17 are still missing. Of the men, 21 members of my family have been murdered by ISIS. Or, we assume they have been murdered because they are still missing.

So from a Yazidi perspective, the sympathy that we have seen for these ISIS brides is terrible. The world needs to know about the Yazidi women who have suffered at the hands of these women. Instead of that, the ISIS wives are invited on TV. They say that they are innocent or that they were young and didn’t understand what they were doing. But this is ridiculous. We know from the Yazidi women who have escaped ISIS that these brides have committed serious crimes. They are participants in genocide.

ISIS’s genocidal campaign against the Yazidi community started in Sinjar in August 2014. They killed men and older women. They kidnapped women and children. Young children were brainwashed to become child soldiers and suicide bombers for ISIS. Women and girls were sold as sex slaves in markets in Iraq and Syria. Yazidi girls that escaped have told me that the ISIS brides would lock them up and beat them. They would shower the girls, put them in nice clothes and put makeup on their faces to get them ready to be raped.

 

 

So not really the innocent victims that soggy tries to claim.

[Window Cleaner]

Some interesting words from a Yazidi woman who has paid a terrible price because of people like Shamima.

 

Pari Ibrahim:*I lost 19 girls from my family – two of them came back but 17 are still missing. Of the men, 21 members of my family have been murdered by ISIS. Or, we assume they have been murdered because they are still missing.

So from a Yazidi perspective, the sympathy that we have seen for these ISIS brides is terrible. The world needs to know about the Yazidi women who have suffered at the hands of these women. Instead of that, the ISIS wives are invited on TV. They say that they are innocent or that they were young and didn’t understand what they were doing. But this is ridiculous. We know from the Yazidi women who have escaped ISIS that these brides have committed serious crimes. They are participants in genocide.

ISIS’s genocidal campaign against the Yazidi community started in Sinjar in August 2014. They killed men and older women. They kidnapped women and children. Young children were brainwashed to become child soldiers and suicide bombers for ISIS. Women and girls were sold as sex slaves in markets in Iraq and Syria. Yazidi girls that escaped have told me that the ISIS brides would lock them up and beat them. They would shower the girls, put them in nice clothes and put makeup on their faces to get them ready to be raped.

 

 

So not really the innocent victims that soggy tries to claim.

 

They all need to be tried where they were captured or surrendered by whatever judicial authority exists there. Fair trial, fair defence and take whatever punishment those tribunals demand.

[Jonnyboy]

Funny how people who say she knew exactly what she was doing at 14/15 would be the first to deny the vote to 16 year olds as they don't know what they are doing.

[Lighthouse]

Funny how people who say she knew exactly what she was doing at 14/15 would be the first to deny the vote to 16 year olds as they don't know what they are doing.

 

Bit of a difference between old enough to know right from wrong and old enough to decide how to run a country, I'd say. No way was I mature enough to vote when I was 14 but if I had sexually assaulted a girl in my class, or stabbed another boy, I'm pretty sure I'd have been expelled.

[StDunko]

Bit of a difference between old enough to know right from wrong and old enough to decide how to run a country, I'd say. No way was I mature enough to vote when I was 14 but if I had sexually assaulted a girl in my class, or stabbed another boy, I'm pretty sure I'd have been expelled.

 

Expelled from the country?

[whelk]

Bit of a difference between old enough to know right from wrong and old enough to decide how to run a country, I'd say. No way was I mature enough to vote when I was 14 but if I had sexually assaulted a girl in my class, or stabbed another boy, I'm pretty sure I'd have been expelled.

 

Bloody liberal society if all a school stabbing gets is an exclusion. Downhill since the banning of corporal punishment

[Lighthouse]

Bloody liberal society if all a school stabbing gets is an exclusion. Downhill since the banning of corporal punishment

 

No, that’s when I was at school some 20 odd years ago. These days kids get given a page of lines, a care worker and an emotional support animal if they stab someone.

[sadoldgit]

They all need to be tried where they were captured or surrendered by whatever judicial authority exists there. Fair trial, fair defence and take whatever punishment those tribunals demand.

 

I agree that they should all go through a judicial process, where ever that may be. I have never said that this person is innocent victim but neither do we have any hard evidence that she was a combatant. Some people might think that just being Muslim makes you automatically guilty of a major crime in these circumstances. She claims to have been nothing more than a housewife. If true is that a crime? If there is more to that it will be discovered through official channels and she will be dealt with through those channels. It would appear that some people, and mostly of a far right persuasion, cannot see a difference between hardened religious extremists and young gullible people who get sucked in and end up well out of their depth. Let’s not pretend that a 15 year old who liked the idea of going to Syria because she liked the idea of raising a family there because the video looked nice and “they look after you” was some kind of hardened Jihadist when she went. Frankly I would be a lot more concerned about her husband. Still, the likes of Begum are a blessing to the Yaxley-Lennon brigade.

[hypochondriac]

Being Muslim makes you automatically guilty? I've read some garbage on here but that's one of the most idiotic things ever written. She's guilty because she joined and actively supported a death cult that raped and murdered people and she continues to show no remorse. The fact she is a a Muslim or female couldn't be more irrelevant other than it may have been a motivating factor for her joining.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Being Muslim makes you automatically guilty? I've read some garbage on here but that's one of the most idiotic things ever written. She's guilty because she joined and actively supported a death cult that raped and murdered people and she continues to show no remorse. The fact she is a a Muslim or female couldn't be more irrelevant other than it may have been a motivating factor for her joining.

 

If she was a male footballer she would definitely be guilty.

[hypochondriac]

If she was a male footballer she would definitely be guilty.

Indeed. In fact even in the last post soggy is saying how he is more concerned about the male ISIS member than the female one. What a racist and sexist way of looking at the world.

 

"Shamima Begum is a good example because she does not regret what she did. People like her still support ISIS. It is only because they are losing the war that she and others want to return home. They have no regrets about participating in genocide, sex slavery or imprisoning and killing Yazidi women. It is astonishing that they expect to just return to their old lives just because the caliphate is losing ground. But wherever they go, they will continue to spread their ideology."

Edited 13 March, 2019 by hypochondriac

[Sheaf Saint]

Being Muslim makes you automatically guilty? I've read some garbage on here but that's one of the most idiotic things ever written.

 

Of course it's garbage and idiotic. You know that, and I know that, but let's not pretend there aren't some morons out there who actually believe it. You only have to look at the comments section of a Britain First Facebook post to see just how truly hateful and ignorant people can be.

 

She's guilty because she joined and actively supported a death cult that raped and murdered people and she continues to show no remorse. The fact she is a a Muslim or female couldn't be more irrelevant other than it may have been a motivating factor for her joining.

 

Guilty of what though? That's the key question here. It's all very well saying she's guilty by association, but we should be very clear about what she should actually be charged with if she ever returns to the UK.

 

I have no time for this girl. I find her extreme views and her expressions of support for the Manchester arena attacker very distasteful indeed. But, like it or not, our laws apply to everyone equally (unless you're an MP and/or extremely rich and can buy your own justice, of course). I don't want her coming back to Britain to spread her hate-filled bile, but what concerns me perhaps even more is the idea that our government can arbitrarily decide what laws should and should not apply to her, and dish out summary justice because the pitch-fork brigade demand it.

 

Indeed. In fact even in the last post soggy is saying how he is more concerned about the male ISIS member than the female one. What a racist and sexist way of looking at the world.

 

Being fair to Sadoldgit, I read that as meaning that he is more concerned about the threat that her husband poses to our security, rather than showing more compassion towards him. Nothing racist or sexist about that at all IMO.

[Window Cleaner]

 

 

Guilty of what though? That's the key question here. It's all very well saying she's guilty by association, but we should be very clear about what she should actually be charged with if she ever returns to the UK.

 

I have no time for this girl. I find her extreme views and her expressions of support for the Manchester arena attacker very distasteful indeed. But, like it or not, our laws apply to everyone equally (unless you're an MP and/or extremely rich and can buy your own justice, of course). I don't want her coming back to Britain to spread her hate-filled bile, but what concerns me perhaps even more is the idea that our government can arbitrarily decide what laws should and should not apply to her, and dish out summary justice because the pitch-fork brigade demand it.

 

 

 

Is not apology for terrorism an offence in the UK then?

It is almost everywhere else. In Italy for instance you can cop some jail time (in theory) for just liking a terrorist post on Facebook.

Just her views on the Manchester bombing should be enough to put her away for a couple of years.

[Sheaf Saint]

Is not apology for terrorism an offence in the UK then?

It is almost everywhere else. In Italy for instance you can cop some jail time (in theory) for just liking a terrorist post on Facebook.

Just her views on the Manchester bombing should be enough to put her away for a couple of years.

 

I don't know. That's why I'm asking the question.

[hypochondriac]

Of course it's garbage and idiotic. You know that, and I know that, but let's not pretend there aren't some morons out there who actually believe it. You only have to look at the comments section of a Britain First Facebook post to see just how truly hateful and ignorant people can be.

I haven't seen anyone saying that Shamima is guilty simpy because she is a Muslim. Do you have a link? Otherwise it's pointless bringing it up as a point in this discussion. Almost everyone I have seen are angry at her because she ran away from the UK and joined IS. It has nothing to do with her being a Muslim.

 

 

Guilty of what though? That's the key question here. It's all very well saying she's guilty by association, but we should be very clear about what she should actually be charged with if she ever returns to the UK.

I'd rather cross that bridge if she ever manages to make it back in. Hopefully not. Directly supporting a terrorist organisation will undoubtedly be against the law. I wouldn't know the specific laws she will have broken as I'm not a lawyer but it doesn't matter at the moment as she hasn't managed to get here.

 

I have no time for this girl. I find her extreme views and her expressions of support for the Manchester arena attacker very distasteful indeed. But, like it or not, our laws apply to everyone equally (unless you're an MP and/or extremely rich and can buy your own justice, of course). I don't want her coming back to Britain to spread her hate-filled bile, but what concerns me perhaps even more is the idea that our government can arbitrarily decide what laws should and should not apply to her, and dish out summary justice because the pitch-fork brigade demand it.

That isn't what happened though. Under Bangladeshi law she inherits citizenship and so Britain has simply stripped her British citizenship from her and have said they won't be providing any assistance to her. I don't want arbitrary stripping of citizenships but I'm happy to make a caveat that we can explore every legal avenue possible to make it difficult to ever come back if you run off to a foreign country to join a death cult. She may win a legal appeal a few years down the line and we will be forced to take her back but I'm glad it's not going to be as simple as her just deciding to come back in once IS start losing.

 

 

Being fair to Sadoldgit, I read that as meaning that he is more concerned about the threat that her husband poses to our security, rather than showing more compassion towards him. Nothing racist or sexist about that at all IMO.

How is a Dutch man more of a threat to our security than someone who was until recently was a British citizen? How is he more of a threat than any other random Jihadi fighter who happens to be in Syria? I'd consider an ex British Jihadi to be a much greater security threat to the UK than a random Dutch member. It's because soggy is desperate to portray her as some innocent brainwashed victim in all this who wouldn't hurt a fly due to his clear bias. It's pathetic and wrong.

Edited 13 March, 2019 by hypochondriac

[Sheaf Saint]

How is a Dutch man more of a threat to our security than someone who was until recently was a British citizen? How is he more of a threat than any other random Jihadi fighter who happens to be in Syria? I'd consider an ex British Jihadi to be a much greater security threat to the UK than a random Dutch member.

 

I don't know, because I'm not personally making such claims.

 

It's because soggy is desperate to portray her as some innocent brainwashed victim in all this who wouldn't hurt a fly

 

I agree that they should all go through a judicial process, where ever that may be. I have never said that this person is innocent victim but neither do we have any hard evidence that she was a combatant.

 

 

You really need to start actually reading people's posts more, instead of just deciding in your head that you know better than they do what they mean.

Edited 13 March, 2019 by Sheaf Saint

[hypochondriac]

I don't know, because I'm not personally making such claims.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You really need to start actually reading people's posts more, instead of just deciding in your head that you know better than they do what they mean.

Thanks but I've seen more than enough. He claims he's not saying she's an innocent victim but the. Goes on about brainwashibhg and how she was just a housewife. It's clear he's downplaying her culpability.

[van Hanegem]

How is a Dutch man more of a threat to our security than someone who was until recently was a British citizen?

 

Never underestimate a Dutch man Hypo, we’’ve got hidden powers you know...

[aintforever]

Guilty of what though? That's the key question here. It's all very well saying she's guilty by association, but we should be very clear about what she should actually be charged with if she ever returns to the UK.

 

Providing material support for a terrorist organisation is a crime in the US so I guess we have a similar law here.

[sadoldgit]

I don't know, because I'm not personally making such claims.

 

I’ve had him on ignore for sometime now Bexy as he doesn’t seem to be able to grasp reading basic English. He seems so wrapped up in his own little world and once the subject of Islam or Muslims comes up he loses any semblance of rationale he has left. It is not uncommon in those of the far right. If you don’t offer a knee jerk reaction he seems to have trouble dealing with it. I am glad I am not the only one that recognises his problem.

[sadoldgit]

Never underestimate a Dutch man Hypo, we’’ve got hidden powers you know...

 

 

I didnt actually say a threat to our security, but that’s hypo for you.

[skintsaint]

Be interesting to see how Australia plays the same situation :

 

https://thewest.com.au/news/war-in-syria/australian-isis-brides-plea-for-baby-help-but-prime-minister-scott-morrison-pushes-back-ng-b881135176z

[hypochondriac]

I didnt actually say a threat to our security, but that’s hypo for you.

If he's not a threat to our security then why is it in any way relevant? Go and discuss Dutch national security somewhere else if that's what you want to discuss.

[hypochondriac]

I don't know, because I'm not personally making such claims.

 

I’ve had him on ignore for sometime now Bexy as he doesn’t seem to be able to grasp reading basic English. He seems so wrapped up in his own little world and once the subject of Islam or Muslims comes up he loses any semblance of rationale he has left. It is not uncommon in those of the far right. If you don’t offer a knee jerk reaction he seems to have trouble dealing with it. I am glad I am not the only one that recognises his problem.

Lol "I've had him on ignore." sure you have big guy.

[whelk]

Grim news in NZ. Absolute scum. Reports that shooting was live streamed. Sick evil bastards

[WellingtonSaint]

It's not supposed to happen here.

 

Not that it should happen anywhere.

 

[benjii]

The Maidstone Massive is expanding its territory.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Grim news in NZ. Absolute scum. Reports that shooting was live streamed. Sick evil bastards

 

Is this faux sadness you're showing, so we don't all believe you're heartless, or do actually find this one sad? You never explained what our rules should be for finding things sad.

[WellingtonSaint]

Is this faux sadness you're showing, so we don't all believe you're heartless, or do actually find this one sad? You never explained what our rules should be for finding things sad.

 

Nice point score, pr!ck.