Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[van Hanegem]

Thanks for that. Very interesting initiatives and possibly some things that other western Europeans countries may have to adopt in time. I definitely think we have to be more forceful about standing up for our values in a similar manner. Parallel societies are simply a bad idea and Foster mistrust on both sides. I've previously advocated for greater surveillance of mosques and an examination of ones that have been proven to harbour and encourage terrorists. Maajid Nawaz suggested changing the prevent strategy to the engage strategy and supporting moderate Muslims like himself to a greater degree which is something that I wholeheartedly support- although the problem there is that whatever the government initiative is called it would be dismissed by some Muslim factions who will aim refuse to engage to combat extremism from their community.

 

I agree with your wider point that we have to firstly accept the problem of a lack of integration from a large number of the Islamic community and the come up with a firm strategy to deal with the problem that doesn't lead to racist attacks but which isn't afraid of tackling the problem for fear of being labelled a racist. I think thats an action that moderate Muslims, individuals of other faiths and the average citizen of the UK and Europe would be incredibly supportive of.

 

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark" springs to mind but at least the Danes are wide awake. When even their chairman of the socialist party says that migrants are not loyal to Denmark but to their family, culture, tradition and the Middle-East (he didn't say islam... ) it's clear they are way ahead of the rest of western Europe. I don't expect that the socialist parties in Sweden, Germany or the Netherlands will follow their Danish compatriots any time soon as they are still believing in outmoded and misguided terms like racism and discrimination. Hopefully the Danish approach of the problems will lead to rapid success which could be the trigger for others. The fact that the Danish socialist party has regained trust of the voters might have set an example that other socialists can emulate. Though I get the impression from this forum there are not many waiting for Jeremy Corbynn to govern...

[sadoldgit]

That's very noble SOG, like it was very noble too to don't see any problems with Germans who believed national socialism was a good thing 80 years ago. Law abiding citizens who would surely condemn the stuff their leaders practiced "if they only had known..."

 

I dont think that all Germans thought that National Socialism was a good thing vH. Clearly though there are those who are drawn to extremes in any walk of life. It seems to me that peaceful, law abiding Muslims do have a problem with extremists within their religion. But now we are getting back into stuff we talked about months ago and I don't wont to get back into the Katie Hopkins/hypo territory again.

[whelk]

Hey SOG guess what? Everyone (maybe Sour Mash excepted) will condemn this nasty bastard.

 

Paul Moore jailed for Leicester hate crime car attack http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-43553545

[Picard]

Interview with Saudi prince

 

Asked about the Saudi-funded spread of Wahhabism, the austere faith that is dominant in the kingdom and that some have accused of being a source of global terrorism, Mohammed said that investments in mosques and madrassas overseas were rooted in the Cold War, when allies asked Saudi Arabia to use its resources to prevent inroads in Muslim countries by the Soviet Union.

 

Successive Saudi governments lost track of the effort, he said, and now “we have to get it all back.” Funding now comes largely from Saudi-based “foundations,” he said, rather than from the government.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/saudi-prince-denies-kushner-is-in-his-pocket/2018/03/22/701a9c9e-2e22-11e8-8688-e053ba58f1e4_story.html?utm_term=.bf88dca34f99

[hypochondriac]

Hey SOG guess what? Everyone (maybe Sour Mash excepted) will condemn this nasty bastard.

 

Paul Moore jailed for Leicester hate crime car attack http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-43553545

Absolutely. What an odious excuse for a human being.

[van Hanegem]

I dont think that all Germans thought that National Socialism was a good thing vH. Clearly though there are those who are drawn to extremes in any walk of life. It seems to me that peaceful, law abiding Muslims do have a problem with extremists within their religion. But now we are getting back into stuff we talked about months ago and I don't wont to get back into the Katie Hopkins/hypo territory again.

 

Of course there were Germans who didn't like national socialism at all SOG, Hitler and his cronies weren't even slightly popular in the very beginning. But eventually things went wrong badly and the "good" Germans didn't or couldn't do anything to make it stop. Don't get me wrong, it's fine with me to point out that not all muslims are radical fools (I don't believe that anyone here has that idea) as there are also more liberal movements within islam but I do worry that they won't make a difference in the way islam in Europe is going.

 

Let's end this with something positive, there's a documentary about Hissa Hilal, an islam loving woman who dares to stand up against the religious idiots calling the shots within islam. A very courageous woman and someone you will certainly favour.

 

[hypochondriac]

Another shooting in America at the YouTube HQ of all places. Don't know if it's terrorist related yet but seems to be a woman which is unusual.

 

Edit: unconfirmed but some people saying she was wearing a headscarf. Doesn't confirm much but may give an indication as to her motivations.

Edited 3 April, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Lighthouse]

Just a gut instinct but this doesn't really 'feel' like a terrorist attack. A lone woman, obscure location, low number of casualties, turned the gun on herself... doesn't fit the usual profile.

[skintsaint]

Apparently had a barny with her boyfriend and went off shooting.

[scotty]

"YouTube terminated her account following the shooting. Her Instagram and Facebook accounts have also been removed."

 

 

Good. That'll show her.

 

 

 

FFS, that was in the BBC report, as if it was an important piece of information. That's the frightening thing, that social media has become so embedded in people's lives. There was mention of the woman complaining about youtube filtering her posts, with an implication of that being a factor in the shooting. You've got to wonder sometimes what sort of genie has been waved cheerfully out of the bottle with the social media tidal wave.

[hypochondriac]

Doesn't look to be terrorist related. She just seems like a bizarre hardcore vegan conspiracy nut with a hatred of YouTube. Really odd.

[Lighthouse]

Doesn't look to be terrorist related. She just seems like a bizarre hardcore vegan conspiracy nut with a hatred of YouTube. Really odd.

 

It's odd how some of the things I would previously have considered satire are now transpiring in real life. A vegan terrorist going on a killing spree because her YouTube blogs keep getting taken down; it's like a Daily Mash article.

[shurlock]

"YouTube terminated her account following the shooting. Her Instagram and Facebook accounts have also been removed."

 

 

Good. That'll show her.

 

 

 

FFS, that was in the BBC report, as if it was an important piece of information. That's the frightening thing, that social media has become so embedded in people's lives. There was mention of the woman complaining about youtube filtering her posts, with an implication of that being a factor in the shooting. You've got to wonder sometimes what sort of genie has been waved cheerfully out of the bottle with the social media tidal wave.

 

Perhaps Steve Grant, St. Chalet and the rest of the curry club should take notice.

[hypochondriac]

Perhaps Steve Grant, St. Chalet and the rest of the curry club should take notice.

If chalet bans me then I'm flying a plane into saintsweb towers.

[sadoldgit]

Another shooting in America at the YouTube HQ of all places. Don't know if it's terrorist related yet but seems to be a woman which is unusual.

 

Edit: unconfirmed but some people saying she was wearing a headscarf. Doesn't confirm much but may give an indication as to her motivations.

 

So wearing a headscarf gives an indication as to her motivations? Elementary my dear hypo. Women wearing headscarf = Muslim. Muslim = terrorist.

Once again you have given yourself away. Perhaps wait until something is confirmed before jumping to a stereotypical conclusion?

[hypochondriac]

So wearing a headscarf gives an indication as to her motivations? Elementary my dear hypo. Women wearing headscarf = Muslim. Muslim = terrorist.

[emoji38]

Once again you have given yourself away. Perhaps wait until something is confirmed before jumping to a stereotypical conclusion?

That isn't what I said but I know you like to wilfully misinterpret. The fact she wore a headscarf would give a good indication that she is a Muslim and given he amount of Islamic terror attacks we have it MAY point to yet another one. Doesn't appear to be the case at the moment but don't let me stop you engaging in your favourite pastimes of screaming about racists and islamaphobes at every opportunity. I didn't jump to any conclusions whatsoever. You're so desperate to try to square the circle in your own head that there are a load of baying racists on here that think every single person who identifies as a Muslim is a terrorist and its quite pathetic. Easier to do that and live in your closeted world permanently jammed on your high horse than consider that there may be legitimate criticisms of Islam and Islamic terror that is worthy of discussion. Edited 6 April, 2018 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

Someone has driven a truck of peace into people in Germany again. At the risk of being shouted at for "jumping to conclusions" the smart money is on another Islamic terror attack.

[Badger]

Someone has driven a truck of peace into people in Germany again. At the risk of being shouted at for "jumping to conclusions" the smart money is on another Islamic terror attack.

 

Probably someone with "mental health issues..."

[Verbal]

Someone has driven a truck of peace into people in Germany again. At the risk of being shouted at for "jumping to conclusions" the smart money is on another Islamic terror attack.

 

Or dumbass money, as it turns out.

[sadoldgit]

Someone has driven a truck of peace into people in Germany again. At the risk of being shouted at for "jumping to conclusions" the smart money is on another Islamic terror attack.

 

The smart money was not so smart was it? Still, I won't shout at you for "jumping to conclusions" because it is just hardwired into your mindset. Hence your support for the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson. Still, I have to hand it to you, you dont let making a fool of yourself deter your from doing it day after day. I suppose the fact that he wasn't wearing a headscarf should have given it away.

[inspectorfrost]

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/us/growing-up-under-koresh-cult-children-tell-of-abuses.html

 

There was a fascinating program on C5 last night where they interviewed survivors of the Waco Siege in 1993. They interviewed both ex-ATF personnel and Branch Davidian cult members, and it analysed the buildup to the fire in the years beforehand.

 

I'd encourage anyone to watch it and take specific note of the sheer extent of David Koresh's ability to manipulate, brainwash and directly control so many people just to feed his own messiah complex. He recruited people worldwide in a time long before social media existed, and a third of the cult members who died in the fire were British and there were also members from Australia. This was a man with the ability to persuade parents to willingly hand over their young children for him for rape/sexual abuse (I think one quote was "who wouldn't want them to have sex with Jesus Christ?", and almost all of his followers stayed in the building to be burned alive in the inferno as part of Koresh's apocalyptic vision. The raid was a botch because the authories didn't realise Koresh was already in control of it.

 

It was a very good example of how much power and control just one depraved psychopath had over the minds of so many people. Most of the Waco survivors to this day still believe Koresh is the son of god. Koresh still controls their minds 25 years after his death.

 

The 'religion' is different but the methodology is exactly the same. Manipulate and subtly brainwash suggestible people over time, break them down psychologically, gain control of their minds through fear and indoctrinate them into an endless pattern of circular thinking. Easier said than done but one can then convince the most abhorrent things are rational in a certain context.

 

The modern day middle eastern David Koresh's now have twitter/facebook to spread their poison in the background of the middle eastern conflicts. The social media giants lost control and are only again starting to get a foothold. All religion is down to individual interpretation, and when someone with the depraved power of Koresh twists it for his own ends and controls so many through his own interpretation, is that the fault of the 'religion'? You can certainly argue 'the Muslims' or 'Islam' needs to sort out extremism but we're talking about 1.8 billion people worldwide. All with their own interpretations of a book written 1400 years or so ago when the world the world was a very different place.

 

If Koresh was a Muslim today could he eventually convince a group of peaceful Muslims to drive 18 wheelers into a crowd of innocent men women and children?

 

Without a shadow of a doubt.

[sadoldgit]

I am old enough to remember Charles Manson and his "family" and the Sharon Tate and LaBianca murders. Same sort of thing. He was a charismatic person who prayed on the weak willed and vulnerable and got them to do his bidding. I dont believe that religion (of any kind) is to blame per se. There are some though who use religion to manipulate those who are easily led.

[hypochondriac]

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/us/growing-up-under-koresh-cult-children-tell-of-abuses.html

 

There was a fascinating program on C5 last night where they interviewed survivors of the Waco Siege in 1993. They interviewed both ex-ATF personnel and Branch Davidian cult members, and it analysed the buildup to the fire in the years beforehand.

 

I'd encourage anyone to watch it and take specific note of the sheer extent of David Koresh's ability to manipulate, brainwash and directly control so many people just to feed his own messiah complex. He recruited people worldwide in a time long before social media existed, and a third of the cult members who died in the fire were British and there were also members from Australia. This was a man with the ability to persuade parents to willingly hand over their young children for him for rape/sexual abuse (I think one quote was "who wouldn't want them to have sex with Jesus Christ?", and almost all of his followers stayed in the building to be burned alive in the inferno as part of Koresh's apocalyptic vision. The raid was a botch because the authories didn't realise Koresh was already in control of it.

 

It was a very good example of how much power and control just one depraved psychopath had over the minds of so many people. Most of the Waco survivors to this day still believe Koresh is the son of god. Koresh still controls their minds 25 years after his death.

 

The 'religion' is different but the methodology is exactly the same. Manipulate and subtly brainwash suggestible people over time, break them down psychologically, gain control of their minds through fear and indoctrinate them into an endless pattern of circular thinking. Easier said than done but one can then convince the most abhorrent things are rational in a certain context.

 

The modern day middle eastern David Koresh's now have twitter/facebook to spread their poison in the background of the middle eastern conflicts. The social media giants lost control and are only again starting to get a foothold. All religion is down to individual interpretation, and when someone with the depraved power of Koresh twists it for his own ends and controls so many through his own interpretation, is that the fault of the 'religion'? You can certainly argue 'the Muslims' or 'Islam' needs to sort out extremism but we're talking about 1.8 billion people worldwide. All with their own interpretations of a book written 1400 years or so ago when the world the world was a very different place.

 

If Koresh was a Muslim today could he eventually convince a group of peaceful Muslims to drive 18 wheelers into a crowd of innocent men women and children?

 

Without a shadow of a doubt.

Interesting post thanks. I definitely think that that is a part of why certain people act the way they do, but I'd question the suggestion that all Muslims who hold regressive views about homosexuals for example or who believe that women should have less rights than men are victims of this cult phenomenon.

 

Even if we are to accept that all Muslims who hold views that don't align with western Liberal values are somehow in thrall to thought leaders like imams, the question then becomes how we are to deal with it. My argument has always been that there should be greater security in mosques to guard against radical and regressive teachings, that reforming Muslims should be properly supported by European governments and the Islamic communities have their own part to play in recognising the issues within their communities and working with authorities to make it clear that radical Islam, sharia courts and the subjugation of women and minorities is unacceptable in Islam. Would you agree?

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try and watch the documentary this week as I personally find this sort of stuff fascinating.

Edited 17 April, 2018 by hypochondriac

[inspectorfrost]

Interesting post thanks. I definitely think that that is a part of why certain people act the way they do, but I'd question the suggestion that all Muslims who hold regressive views about homosexuals for example or who believe that women should have less rights than men are victims of this cult phenomenon.

 

Even if we are to accept that all Muslims who hold views that don't align with western Liberal values are somehow in thrall to thought leaders like imams, the question then becomes how we are to deal with it. My argument has always been that there should be greater security in mosques to guard against radical and regressive teachings, that reforming Muslims should be properly supported by European governments and the Islamic communities have their own part to play in recognising the issues within their communities and working with authorities to make it clear that radical Islam, sharia courts and the subjugation of women and minorities is unacceptable in Islam. Would you agree?

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try and watch the documentary this week as I personally find this sort of stuff fascinating.

 

I do agree although the Islamic community already do a lot to try and counter extremism. I was in Oxford city centre the other week and slap bang in the middle of the high street was a big 'Muslims against extremism' stand. The problem they have is that the 0.1% of extremists get 99.9% of the media coverage, and 99.9% of their efforts to stampt it out get 0.1% of the media coverage.

 

One issue that Islam does have is that it's historically been far more strictly enforced than say Christianity. This means that Christianity has over centuries 'moved with the times' to a greater extent since the time of when the holy book was written. The Koran was written many hundreds of years ago but it's taken a lot more literally by more followers of the religion. I would say that with Islam there has been a 'lack of modernisation' over a long period.

 

With extremism it tends to originate in small cells as generally in life it is the manipulators/Koresh like figures that rise to the top and control all those beneath. When it comes to guarding against radical and regressive teachings I do think there needs to be more external independent monitoring of mosques/safeguarding in general but for anyone who has extremist views it'll be the systems that they are very clever at getting around.

 

As for Koresh there are videos on youtube you can watch of the victims talking to the camera in the years up to the fire. It's fairly chilling to watch all the kids/young adults talk about how they are so happy being there, they can leave whenever they like and how 'David provides everything'. For the trained eye it's very much like they are saying it, not because they actually think it but because they almost been 'programmed' to say it. Koresh has got so much into their subconcious that you look at their eyes and there is nothing there. Their natural personalities have almost been drained away, other than the odd brief flash of vulnerability.

[van Hanegem]

With extremism it tends to originate in small cells as generally in life it is the manipulators/Koresh like figures that rise to the top and control all those beneath. When it comes to guarding against radical and regressive teachings I do think there needs to be more external independent monitoring of mosques/safeguarding in general but for anyone who has extremist views it'll be the systems that they are very clever at getting around.

 

Nearly all of the Dutch muslims who went to Syria to fight for ISIS or another 'rebel' group turned over to the salafist movement within islam before they left. I reckon this will be the same in other European countries like the UK. Salafism has gained influence in Europe because of the funding by people or organizations from islamic states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the Emirates who deliver the money for new mosques or already existing mosques who have financial problems. The same lot who gave millions to ISIS and so on and to fundamentalists in Indonesia for example. Journalists found out that about 10% of the mosques in the Netherlands are funded this way and as "he who pays the piper calls the tune" there are administrators and imams coming in with their usual drivel about Jews, the right to kill apostates or that female genital mutilation is a good thing as they won't enjoy sex anymore. Moderate muslims who do not agree with this are afraid to speak themselves out against these developments within their mosque as they don't want to be rejected by their community.

 

The Dutch government knew this was happening years ago as officials from Saudi Arabia etc. keep them informed about the flow of the funds from their countries towards the Netherlands. They denied the existence of this information when the Dutch parliament asked questions about the rise of salafism and now it turns out they did this because otherwise they wouldn't get the information anymore. Now they're saying it's difficult to stop the funding because we have freedom of religion. I guess the 'import of hate' will go on for years to come. Will it be different in the UK?

[whelk]

Another fcker today in Belgium. First day out of prison and reports saying not known previously for extremist views.

Ban Islam from prisons I say and put any preacher in solitary. Ahh but what about freedoms

[whelk]

Anyone worried about these poor ISIS lads maybe getting the death penalty?

[Batman]

Anyone worried about these poor ISIS lads maybe getting the death penalty?

 

Have not looked today, but I guess that Dianne Abbott has kicked off about this?

[Jonnyboy]

Anyone worried about these poor ISIS lads maybe getting the death penalty?

 

It's unprecedented for us to not request that if we help there will be no death penalty. Of course about 50% of the public won't care as they are in favour of the death penalty.

[whelk]

Have not looked today, but I guess that Dianne Abbott has kicked off about this?

 

It is inconsistent but cannot claim to be bothered

[moonraker]

Anyone worried about these poor ISIS lads maybe getting the death penalty?

 

For me the issue is not just about the death penalty, I am against it, but it is about a government minister reversing over 30 years of U.K. policy without any parliamentary debate, unprecedented and further evidence of the contempt this Tory government has for the sovereignty of our parliament, taking back control my arse.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

Have not looked today, but I guess that Dianne Abbott has kicked off about this?

 

Unlike you to jump to conclusions.

[hypochondriac]

Unlike you to jump to conclusions.

But he was completely correct...

[Cabbage_Face]

Personally I wouldn't kill them, it's normally what these Bellends want.

[sadoldgit]

But he was completely correct...

 

Lol. Unlike you to jump straight in and support your right wing buddy. She is the Shadow Hoe Secretary so it is her job to raise this issue. If your mate had bothered to look at the story before posting his usual knee jerk response he would have noted the cross party condemnation too. Still following me around Internet forums I see.

[Lord Duckhunter]

To stick up for Abbott, Jezza & other assorted lefties, they are consistent on this issue. Whereas the so called Tory party are all over the place. I want Ian Huntley, Peter Sutcliffe etc to swing, not just jihadi John, Paul, George & Ringo. Surely its Islamophobic to only want to send Muslims to their death in the US. Had Huntley murdered & raped two young girls on his American holiday I’m sure a Tory home sec wouldn’t agree to extradite unless it was guaranteed he wouldn’t face death penalty .

 

 

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[buctootim]

To stick up for Abbott, Jezza & other assorted lefties, they are consistent on this issue. Whereas the so called Tory party are all over the place. I want Ian Huntley, Peter Sutcliffe etc to swing, not just jihadi John, Paul, George & Ringo. Surely its Islamophobic to only want to send Muslims to their death in the US. Had Huntley murdered & raped two young girls on his American holiday I’m sure a Tory home sec wouldn’t agree to extradite unless it was guaranteed he wouldn’t face death penalty .

 

I have no issue with the death penalty for repeat offenders of the most serious crimes (although that would exclude Huntley). But you need to be consistent. You either have a death penalty or you dont. The home secretary shouldn't have the power to decide some offenders should die when we don't have capital punishment here.

[Jonnyboy]

Lol. Unlike you to jump straight in and support your right wing buddy. She is the Shadow Hoe Secretary so it is her job to raise this issue. If your mate had bothered to look at the story before posting his usual knee jerk response he would have noted the cross party condemnation too. Still following me around Internet forums I see.

 

Haha.

[hypochondriac]

Haha.

Lol.

[Jonnyboy]

Lol.

 

Megalolz!

[aintforever]

The whole thing is just blatant populism by the Tories. They knew that leaking the info would prompt a response from some of Corbyn’s idiots, it’s win-win. The more fuss created the more the Tories look tough on security and the more labour look like the Jihadi sympathisers.

[edprice1984]

Amazed it has taken this long for someone to post about this mornings incident. All very odd. Thankfully it seems no one seriously injured.

[hypochondriac]

Amazed it has taken this long for someone to post about this mornings incident. All very odd. Thankfully it seems no one seriously injured.

It's not much of a surprise anymore sadly. It's the times we live in.

[Batman]

It's not much of a surprise anymore sadly. It's the times we live in.

 

[hypochondriac]

Lol. Just part and parcel of living in a big city... Unless you live in Tokyo...

[Lord Duckhunter]

The driver has admitted he was present , but he doesn’t think he was actually involved.

 

 

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[Batman]

Anyone have sympathy for the woman who wants to come back to the U.K.?

[badgerx16]

Anyone have sympathy for the woman who wants to come back to the U.K.?

None whatsoever. She seems to be completely unrepentant, and oblivious to the evil that she chose to join. With her complete lack of empathy towards the victims of IS she should stay where she is, and not a penny spent on repatriating her. I'm sure the Syrians or the Kurds will help re-educate her.

If she should find her way back there should be a nice warm cell waiting for her, where she can ponder on her life choices for several years to come.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Anyone have sympathy for the woman who wants to come back to the U.K.?

 

Absolutely not. If she comes back, she should be arrested on arrival and locked up. However, I think the UK Government should rescind her passport so she cannot attempt to re-enter the country.